Is there any hope for the PA

[Hollie]

With the main problem being no real interest in peace with its neighbors. The palestinians and their PA leadership simply doesn't want to live peacefully next to its Jewish neighbors.

Abbas might be willing to pretend peace such that he can keep the aid dollars flowing, but in the end he's done nothing to unite the palestinian people and pressure Jordan to accept what portion of the Arab palestinians would prefer to live in Jordan

Naw, the Palestinians will stay where they are and just wait a generation or so until they outnumber the Jews substantially, then it will be up to Israel to enfranchise all the people under its control or remain an Apartheid state.

Another generation or two of Pal'istanian welfare fraud?

 

[flacaltenn]

Yes yes I think we all know the definition of the terms. In which case when I say palestine has never been a country I can say it on a factual basis.

Your explanation is a finagling of terms. Israel is a European Colonial Fiat, that will be ground by Islam's 1.5 billion people.

The entire Middle East is a "European Colonial fiat"... Iraq, Syria, Lebanon --- ALL drawn over tea and crumpets in a day or two.. Israel was NEVER a colony of the British Empire. And CERTAINLY --- the Palis have never mustered even a vague effort to become a nation state.. Better known for hijacking airlines and killing Israeli Olympians under the PLO.. Don't know how you can expect to compete on the International scale when the Ottoman empire is being carved up with no interest in governing or visions for peace and economic prosperity.

We agree a European mess created under Zionist influence. A good humanistic objective of creating a safe-haven for the Jews of Europe at the cost of making innocent people homeless.

Everyone becomes a Terrorist when Justice is hijacked. That's the root cause. Two wrongs don't make it right.

I guess the Zionists wanted to be exterminated by Hitler.
Any other brilliant observations?

The Holocaust is the worst thing I ever viewed in my life on films. Even here in America the ship Exodus was turned back and perished in Hitler's madness...

We are all culpable in some way.

Today we have created a Velvet Holocaust for a People who had nothing to do with any Jewish persecution...Fascism rules Israel. Two wrongs can't make a right.

Whom would you suggest they negotiate with?? You and Billo and Monte??

 

[flacaltenn]

The Palestinians were never offered a sovereign state. The Israelis had no intention of relinquishing control of the West Bank internally nor control of Gaza's air space, territorial sea or relinquish control of the mile of land within Gaza along the border. So just drop that canard. Currently, Israel's leader has stated that there will not be a Palestinian state during his rule, so why bother even discussing a two-state solution. It isn't going to happen.

Israel has de facto control over the land and rules over a population of non-Jewish people that exceeds the number of Jewish Israelis. Either:

1. Israel continues to practice Apartheid, treating Jews living on the same land as non-Jews differently (for example, Jewish settlers in the West Bank are treated differently than non-Jews on the West Bank) .

or

2. Israel fully enfranchises non-Jews under its control.

While the ethnic cleansing dreamers might believe that mass deportation is possible, it is just a dream. Even the U.S. would nix such an action.

Complete withdrawal from Gaza..Israelis EVICTED by force. Put the airspace and seaport back on the table. Had partnership with Egypt and Israel to normalize borders and customs inspection. And all that PA success DIED in 8 months.

 

[montelatici]

Your explanation is a finagling of terms. Israel is a European Colonial Fiat, that will be ground by Islam's 1.5 billion people.

The entire Middle East is a "European Colonial fiat"... Iraq, Syria, Lebanon --- ALL drawn over tea and crumpets in a day or two.. Israel was NEVER a colony of the British Empire. And CERTAINLY --- the Palis have never mustered even a vague effort to become a nation state.. Better known for hijacking airlines and killing Israeli Olympians under the PLO.. Don't know how you can expect to compete on the International scale when the Ottoman empire is being carved up with no interest in governing or visions for peace and economic prosperity.

We agree a European mess created under Zionist influence. A good humanistic objective of creating a safe-haven for the Jews of Europe at the cost of making innocent people homeless.

Everyone becomes a Terrorist when Justice is hijacked. That's the root cause. Two wrongs don't make it right.

I guess the Zionists wanted to be exterminated by Hitler.
Any other brilliant observations?

The Holocaust is the worst thing I ever viewed in my life on films. Even here in America the ship Exodus was turned back and perished in Hitler's madness...

We are all culpable in some way.

Today we have created a Velvet Holocaust for a People who had nothing to do with any Jewish persecution...Fascism rules Israel. Two wrongs can't make a right.

Whom would you suggest they negotiate with?? You and Billo and Monte??

Since Netanyahu stated that there will be no Palestinian state why negotiate?

 

[flacaltenn]

With the main problem being no real interest in peace with its neighbors. The palestinians and their PA leadership simply doesn't want to live peacefully next to its Jewish neighbors.

Abbas might be willing to pretend peace such that he can keep the aid dollars flowing, but in the end he's done nothing to unite the palestinian people and pressure Jordan to accept what portion of the Arab palestinians would prefer to live in Jordan

Naw, the Palestinians will stay where they are and just wait a generation or so until they outnumber the Jews substantially, then it will be up to Israel to enfranchise all the people under its control or remain an Apartheid state.

Another generation or two of Pal'istanian welfare fraud?

Those wasted generations roll by fast.. Before ya know it -- it's been a 100 years. There's no sense of urgency to give all that Pali suffering and dying a meaning. And that's the truly sad part. Leadership is hard to come by in that neck of woods. Because "leaders" tend to LOSE their necks regularly.

 

[montelatici]

The Palestinians were never offered a sovereign state. The Israelis had no intention of relinquishing control of the West Bank internally nor control of Gaza's air space, territorial sea or relinquish control of the mile of land within Gaza along the border. So just drop that canard. Currently, Israel's leader has stated that there will not be a Palestinian state during his rule, so why bother even discussing a two-state solution. It isn't going to happen.

Israel has de facto control over the land and rules over a population of non-Jewish people that exceeds the number of Jewish Israelis. Either:

1. Israel continues to practice Apartheid, treating Jews living on the same land as non-Jews differently (for example, Jewish settlers in the West Bank are treated differently than non-Jews on the West Bank) .

or

2. Israel fully enfranchises non-Jews under its control.

While the ethnic cleansing dreamers might believe that mass deportation is possible, it is just a dream. Even the U.S. would nix such an action.

Complete withdrawal from Gaza..Israelis EVICTED by force. Put the airspace and seaport back on the table. Had partnership with Egypt and Israel to normalize borders and customs inspection. And all that PA success DIED in 8 months.

Air space and territorial sea were never on the table and the U.S. threatened to stop aid to Egypt if Egypt lifted the embargo. Nothing you write is the truth, just the usual Zionist propaganda.

 

[flacaltenn]

The entire Middle East is a "European Colonial fiat"... Iraq, Syria, Lebanon --- ALL drawn over tea and crumpets in a day or two.. Israel was NEVER a colony of the British Empire. And CERTAINLY --- the Palis have never mustered even a vague effort to become a nation state.. Better known for hijacking airlines and killing Israeli Olympians under the PLO.. Don't know how you can expect to compete on the International scale when the Ottoman empire is being carved up with no interest in governing or visions for peace and economic prosperity.

We agree a European mess created under Zionist influence. A good humanistic objective of creating a safe-haven for the Jews of Europe at the cost of making innocent people homeless.

Everyone becomes a Terrorist when Justice is hijacked. That's the root cause. Two wrongs don't make it right.

I guess the Zionists wanted to be exterminated by Hitler.
Any other brilliant observations?

The Holocaust is the worst thing I ever viewed in my life on films. Even here in America the ship Exodus was turned back and perished in Hitler's madness...

We are all culpable in some way.

Today we have created a Velvet Holocaust for a People who had nothing to do with any Jewish persecution...Fascism rules Israel. Two wrongs can't make a right.

Whom would you suggest they negotiate with?? You and Billo and Monte??

Since Netanyahu stated that there will be no Palestinian state why negotiate?

Had the Gaza turn-over gone well.. There would be no limit to the possibilities for unifying with the West Bank. ]
But NO ONE is so stupid as to do that again. There is no reliable Palestinian representation to work with.

 

[flacaltenn]

The Palestinians were never offered a sovereign state. The Israelis had no intention of relinquishing control of the West Bank internally nor control of Gaza's air space, territorial sea or relinquish control of the mile of land within Gaza along the border. So just drop that canard. Currently, Israel's leader has stated that there will not be a Palestinian state during his rule, so why bother even discussing a two-state solution. It isn't going to happen.

Israel has de facto control over the land and rules over a population of non-Jewish people that exceeds the number of Jewish Israelis. Either:

1. Israel continues to practice Apartheid, treating Jews living on the same land as non-Jews differently (for example, Jewish settlers in the West Bank are treated differently than non-Jews on the West Bank) .

or

2. Israel fully enfranchises non-Jews under its control.

While the ethnic cleansing dreamers might believe that mass deportation is possible, it is just a dream. Even the U.S. would nix such an action.

Complete withdrawal from Gaza..Israelis EVICTED by force. Put the airspace and seaport back on the table. Had partnership with Egypt and Israel to normalize borders and customs inspection. And all that PA success DIED in 8 months.

Air space and territorial sea were never on the table and the U.S. threatened to stop aid to Egypt if Egypt lifted the embargo. Nothing you write is the truth, just the usual Zionist propaganda.

That was only true after Hamas got political and decided to screw up the rapport that the PA had worked so hard for.. And no one had to PRESSURE Egypt into not opening the checkpoints. Egypt is quite capable of recognizing threats to its own security.

 

[Hollie]

With the main problem being no real interest in peace with its neighbors. The palestinians and their PA leadership simply doesn't want to live peacefully next to its Jewish neighbors.

Abbas might be willing to pretend peace such that he can keep the aid dollars flowing, but in the end he's done nothing to unite the palestinian people and pressure Jordan to accept what portion of the Arab palestinians would prefer to live in Jordan

Naw, the Palestinians will stay where they are and just wait a generation or so until they outnumber the Jews substantially, then it will be up to Israel to enfranchise all the people under its control or remain an Apartheid state.

Another generation or two of Pal'istanian welfare fraud?

Those wasted generations roll by fast.. Before ya know it -- it's been a 100 years. There's no sense of urgency to give all that Pali suffering and dying a meaning. And that's the truly sad part. Leadership is hard to come by in that neck of woods. Because "leaders" tend to LOSE their necks regularly.

Even the rare Arab-Moslem leader who chooses cooperation and accommodation finds himself on the endangered species list.

Just ask Anwar Sadat.

 

[Billo_Really]

No Israel objected to negotiating with a terrorist organization

Which is common in world politics

The terrorists hiding among and supported by the by both the UN and the palestinian population then began firing rockets at Israel, which of course responded

The Likud Party is a terrorist organization.

Their roots are in Irgun. And Irgun was a Zionist terrorist group that bombed the King David hotel.

 

[montelatici]

The Palestinians were never offered a sovereign state. The Israelis had no intention of relinquishing control of the West Bank internally nor control of Gaza's air space, territorial sea or relinquish control of the mile of land within Gaza along the border. So just drop that canard. Currently, Israel's leader has stated that there will not be a Palestinian state during his rule, so why bother even discussing a two-state solution. It isn't going to happen.

Israel has de facto control over the land and rules over a population of non-Jewish people that exceeds the number of Jewish Israelis. Either:

1. Israel continues to practice Apartheid, treating Jews living on the same land as non-Jews differently (for example, Jewish settlers in the West Bank are treated differently than non-Jews on the West Bank) .

or

2. Israel fully enfranchises non-Jews under its control.

While the ethnic cleansing dreamers might believe that mass deportation is possible, it is just a dream. Even the U.S. would nix such an action.

Complete withdrawal from Gaza..Israelis EVICTED by force. Put the airspace and seaport back on the table. Had partnership with Egypt and Israel to normalize borders and customs inspection. And all that PA success DIED in 8 months.

Air space and territorial sea were never on the table and the U.S. threatened to stop aid to Egypt if Egypt lifted the embargo. Nothing you write is the truth, just the usual Zionist propaganda.

That was only true after Hamas got political and decided to screw up the rapport that the PA had worked so hard for.. And no one had to PRESSURE Egypt into not opening the checkpoints. Egypt is quite capable of recognizing threats to its own security.

Only the risk of losing U.S. aid. You truly are a know-nothing.

 

[Roudy]

There are no Arab colonists. Native people cannot be colonists. Your little word game is just childish.

The Native Americans called America home but there were no countries or states in the Americas.

The only revisionists are the Zionists.

Ha ha ha ho ho ho. "No Arab colonialists" yes, they were more like savages who invaded and committed ethnic cleansing and genocide, but wait! They're still doing that today!

 

[Roudy]

There are no Arab colonists. Native people cannot be colonists. Your little word game is just childish.

The Native Americans called America home but there were no countries or states in the Americas.

The only revisionists are the Zionists.

Word game my ass ;--) with all due respect of course. The subject has been detailed here

View This Thread
See post 44 for a detailed genetic analysis of the colonization of the Israeli area by Arabs

Meanwhile I'm curious if you have anything to say concerning the subject matter of this particular thread ?



PS
Native americans ( of which I am one ) have every right to call the Americas home because it can be shown through genetic research that they were the first peoples arriving well into the neolithic period. Just as the Judaic people can be traced back an equal amount of time within the area of Israel.

Really though, the subject is who's going to lead the palestinian people on the road to peace

Let me remind you, the self-declared colonists are the European Zionists.

An article about a Conference of Zionists published on July 20, 1899 in the New York Times expresses that the Zionists “will colonize Palestine.”

Zionists plan to colonize Palestine in 1899 NY Times - World Bulletin

Oh, no. Not this silly cut and paste you have cross posted multiple times in multiple threads.....

Yup...one of the same standard five irrelevant documents that he will post as a response to every thread topic.

 

[Roudy]

The Palestinians were never offered a sovereign state. The Israelis had no intention of relinquishing control of the West Bank internally nor control of Gaza's air space, territorial sea or relinquish control of the mile of land within Gaza along the border. So just drop that canard. Currently, Israel's leader has stated that there will not be a Palestinian state during his rule, so why bother even discussing a two-state solution. It isn't going to happen.

Israel has de facto control over the land and rules over a population of non-Jewish people that exceeds the number of Jewish Israelis. Either:

1. Israel continues to practice Apartheid, treating Jews living on the same land as non-Jews differently (for example, Jewish settlers in the West Bank are treated differently than non-Jews on the West Bank) .

or

2. Israel fully enfranchises non-Jews under its control.

While the ethnic cleansing dreamers might believe that mass deportation is possible, it is just a dream. Even the U.S. would nix such an action.

Complete withdrawal from Gaza..Israelis EVICTED by force. Put the airspace and seaport back on the table. Had partnership with Egypt and Israel to normalize borders and customs inspection. And all that PA success DIED in 8 months.

Air space and territorial sea were never on the table and the U.S. threatened to stop aid to Egypt if Egypt lifted the embargo. Nothing you write is the truth, just the usual Zionist propaganda.

That was only true after Hamas got political and decided to screw up the rapport that the PA had worked so hard for.. And no one had to PRESSURE Egypt into not opening the checkpoints. Egypt is quite capable of recognizing threats to its own security.

Only the risk of losing U.S. aid. You truly are a know-nothing.

Or maybe the Hamas animals and Muslim Brotherhood posed a threat to Egypt and were removed and outlawed like the cancer they were. Yup. Truly a great moment for the Egyptians to have a strong leader to recognize the evil of Islamism.

 

[Roudy]

There are no Arab colonists. Native people cannot be colonists. Your little word game is just childish.

The Native Americans called America home but there were no countries or states in the Americas.

The only revisionists are the Zionists.

The Palestinians do need a Zionist movement tho.. An organized, visionary, and rational leadership that has the GOAL of establishing a nation-state.. Zionist movement was a ethnic world-wide movement, not really a colonial movement with the sanctions and blessings of an established nation.. Traditionally, you can't be a colony without being a colony of some existing structure. There's no superstructure to the "colony" of Israel.. Unless you're Jim Jones or something like that -- there is no other meaning for the word..

The reality is that endless meaningless dying for an UNORGANIZED resistance is plain stupid.. And those of us who WOULD LIKE to see the Palis gain some autonomy -- are frustrated with the couch muffins who egg on the senseless "resistance" and take every opportunity to degrade the PA -- which is the best chance that Palestine had for serious negotiated gains towards nation-hood in the last 100 years..

Of course Israel was a colonial project, the Zionists self-described themselves as colonists and had the support and "blessing" of Britain and other colonial powers.

There is no longer any possibility of establishing a Palestinian state even if the Israelis were agreeable to it, and they are not.

Meh who the hell cares. The land was designated as the Jewish national homeland by those in charge, the British.

 

[flacaltenn]

The Palestinians were never offered a sovereign state. The Israelis had no intention of relinquishing control of the West Bank internally nor control of Gaza's air space, territorial sea or relinquish control of the mile of land within Gaza along the border. So just drop that canard. Currently, Israel's leader has stated that there will not be a Palestinian state during his rule, so why bother even discussing a two-state solution. It isn't going to happen.

Israel has de facto control over the land and rules over a population of non-Jewish people that exceeds the number of Jewish Israelis. Either:

1. Israel continues to practice Apartheid, treating Jews living on the same land as non-Jews differently (for example, Jewish settlers in the West Bank are treated differently than non-Jews on the West Bank) .

or

2. Israel fully enfranchises non-Jews under its control.

While the ethnic cleansing dreamers might believe that mass deportation is possible, it is just a dream. Even the U.S. would nix such an action.

Complete withdrawal from Gaza..Israelis EVICTED by force. Put the airspace and seaport back on the table. Had partnership with Egypt and Israel to normalize borders and customs inspection. And all that PA success DIED in 8 months.

Air space and territorial sea were never on the table and the U.S. threatened to stop aid to Egypt if Egypt lifted the embargo. Nothing you write is the truth, just the usual Zionist propaganda.

That was only true after Hamas got political and decided to screw up the rapport that the PA had worked so hard for.. And no one had to PRESSURE Egypt into not opening the checkpoints. Egypt is quite capable of recognizing threats to its own security.

Only the risk of losing U.S. aid. You truly are a know-nothing.

Cut the crap Monte.. Are we still "THREATENING" Egypt today??

 

[montelatici]

The Palestinians were never offered a sovereign state. The Israelis had no intention of relinquishing control of the West Bank internally nor control of Gaza's air space, territorial sea or relinquish control of the mile of land within Gaza along the border. So just drop that canard. Currently, Israel's leader has stated that there will not be a Palestinian state during his rule, so why bother even discussing a two-state solution. It isn't going to happen.

Israel has de facto control over the land and rules over a population of non-Jewish people that exceeds the number of Jewish Israelis. Either:

1. Israel continues to practice Apartheid, treating Jews living on the same land as non-Jews differently (for example, Jewish settlers in the West Bank are treated differently than non-Jews on the West Bank) .

or

2. Israel fully enfranchises non-Jews under its control.

While the ethnic cleansing dreamers might believe that mass deportation is possible, it is just a dream. Even the U.S. would nix such an action.

Complete withdrawal from Gaza..Israelis EVICTED by force. Put the airspace and seaport back on the table. Had partnership with Egypt and Israel to normalize borders and customs inspection. And all that PA success DIED in 8 months.

Air space and territorial sea were never on the table and the U.S. threatened to stop aid to Egypt if Egypt lifted the embargo. Nothing you write is the truth, just the usual Zionist propaganda.

That was only true after Hamas got political and decided to screw up the rapport that the PA had worked so hard for.. And no one had to PRESSURE Egypt into not opening the checkpoints. Egypt is quite capable of recognizing threats to its own security.

Only the risk of losing U.S. aid. You truly are a know-nothing.

Cut the crap Monte.. Are we still "THREATENING" Egypt today??

Fine way for a "moderator" to behave. LOL

To avoid losing aid from the U.S. Egypt can only allow persons to pass through the Rafah border. Goods have to go through Israeli controlled border crossings. Morsi opened the crossing up for goods and Egypt would have lost the U.S. aid had the democratically elected government not been overthrown by the military.

Yes, the threat remains, but since the military coup which put in place a general who knows the rules no steps have to be taken. Al Sisi closed the border once the democratically elected government, which had opened the crossing for the import and export of goods, was overthrown. But the threat is there. It's not like funds haven't been cut before for allowing an open border crossing for more than people.

"...the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2008, withholds the obligation of $100 million in Foreign Military Financing until the Secretary of State certifies, among other things, that Egypt has taken concrete steps to “detect and destroy the smuggling network and tunnels that lead from Egypt to Gaza.”

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL34346.pdf

 

[Hollie]

Complete withdrawal from Gaza..Israelis EVICTED by force. Put the airspace and seaport back on the table. Had partnership with Egypt and Israel to normalize borders and customs inspection. And all that PA success DIED in 8 months.

Air space and territorial sea were never on the table and the U.S. threatened to stop aid to Egypt if Egypt lifted the embargo. Nothing you write is the truth, just the usual Zionist propaganda.

That was only true after Hamas got political and decided to screw up the rapport that the PA had worked so hard for.. And no one had to PRESSURE Egypt into not opening the checkpoints. Egypt is quite capable of recognizing threats to its own security.

Only the risk of losing U.S. aid. You truly are a know-nothing.

Cut the crap Monte.. Are we still "THREATENING" Egypt today??

Fine way for a "moderator" to behave. LOL

To avoid losing aid from the U.S. Egypt can only allow persons to pass through the Rafah border. Goods have to go through Israeli controlled border crossings. Morsi opened the crossing up for goods and Egypt would have lost the U.S. aid had the democratically elected government not been overthrown by the military.

Yes, the threat remains, but since the military coup which put in place a general who knows the rules no steps have to be taken. Al Sisi closed the border once the democratically elected government, which had opened the crossing for the import and export of goods, was overthrown. But the threat is there. It's not like funds haven't been cut before for allowing an open border crossing for more than people.

"...the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2008, withholds the obligation of $100 million in Foreign Military Financing until the Secretary of State certifies, among other things, that Egypt has taken concrete steps to “detect and destroy the smuggling network and tunnels that lead from Egypt to Gaza.”

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL34346.pdf

So basically, your whining is in disagreement that US aid dollars come with conditions, one of which is intended to combat Islamist terrorism.

 

[Roudy]

Air space and territorial sea were never on the table and the U.S. threatened to stop aid to Egypt if Egypt lifted the embargo. Nothing you write is the truth, just the usual Zionist propaganda.

That was only true after Hamas got political and decided to screw up the rapport that the PA had worked so hard for.. And no one had to PRESSURE Egypt into not opening the checkpoints. Egypt is quite capable of recognizing threats to its own security.

Only the risk of losing U.S. aid. You truly are a know-nothing.

Cut the crap Monte.. Are we still "THREATENING" Egypt today??

Fine way for a "moderator" to behave. LOL

To avoid losing aid from the U.S. Egypt can only allow persons to pass through the Rafah border. Goods have to go through Israeli controlled border crossings. Morsi opened the crossing up for goods and Egypt would have lost the U.S. aid had the democratically elected government not been overthrown by the military.

Yes, the threat remains, but since the military coup which put in place a general who knows the rules no steps have to be taken. Al Sisi closed the border once the democratically elected government, which had opened the crossing for the import and export of goods, was overthrown. But the threat is there. It's not like funds haven't been cut before for allowing an open border crossing for more than people.

"...the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2008, withholds the obligation of $100 million in Foreign Military Financing until the Secretary of State certifies, among other things, that Egypt has taken concrete steps to “detect and destroy the smuggling network and tunnels that lead from Egypt to Gaza.”

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL34346.pdf

So basically, your whining is in disagreement that US aid dollars come with conditions, one of which is intended to combat Islamist terrorism.

Yeah, he seems very upset that Egypt didn't become yet another Islamist terrorist shithole like Gaza.

 

[montelatici]

Just facts Ruddy, just facts.