Is there a god?

[Taz]

You are not going to prevail by being dishonest. I said there are both literal and figurative truths in the Bible. And I've told you the writers were limited by the lack of knowledge - meaning they would not know that California existed, so how could they know it didn't get flooded?

The duty of a Christian is to know how to separate the figurative from the literal. It is NOT a process of cherry picking:

II Timothy 2: 14 and 15 reads:

"14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

And yes, the Chinese knew of Noah AND there are strong arguments that they knew Noah himself:

Migration to China

" I said there are both literal and figurative truths in the Bible."

That's called cherry-picking. Now you know.

And if you choose to not believe certain things in the bible as being true, how can you justify believing other parts to be true? Who decides? And how? By simply saying "this is stupid and can't have happened so it's figurative, but this part sounds like something someone could have said, so we go with it"? Flip a coin?

No. That is called intellectual honesty. The Bible has several literary types; allegorical, historical, law, poetic, prophetic, epistle and proverbial. I'm sure others may add or subtract to this list, but this is a pretty good start. When trying to understand the meaning of passages it is helpful to understand which literary type one is reading and also to place or read the passage in the proper historical light. Something that people who are intellectually dishonest don't do.

Taz knows better than to make the arguments he / she is making. But now there is an even better explanation for Bible interpretation. Thanks for the good job.

You guys are living in a fantasy world. None of the big stuff in the bible can be proven to have happened. Like seriously, you think that god poofed man into being? That's a seriously thick slice of nonsense. And that the earth was formed before the sun? It's completely unfounded and goes against all scientific knowledge.

Scientific knowledge of the universe and it's creation is extremely limited. Many theories, few facts.

A computer programmer can create games that are almost lifelike. It would stand to reason that a far superior intelligence could do much better and on a grander scale. The Bible hints that all of this is not real, and the laws of physics can be suspended if one has enough faith in his/her ability to do so. If it is not real, then all of it is illusion.

I think they meant that the bible is an illusion.

 

[Taz]

No. That is called intellectual honesty. The Bible has several literary types; allegorical, historical, law, poetic, prophetic, epistle and proverbial. I'm sure others may add or subtract to this list, but this is a pretty good start. When trying to understand the meaning of passages it is helpful to understand which literary type one is reading and also to place or read the passage in the proper historical light. Something that people who are intellectually dishonest don't do.

Taz knows better than to make the arguments he / she is making. But now there is an even better explanation for Bible interpretation. Thanks for the good job.

You guys are living in a fantasy world. None of the big stuff in the bible can be proven to have happened. Like seriously, you think that god poofed man into being? That's a seriously thick slice of nonsense. And that the earth was formed before the sun? It's completely unfounded and goes against all scientific knowledge.

Scientific knowledge according to a mortal man???

In your dishonest desperation to deny even the possibility of a God, you accuse every believer of "cherry picking." When that don't work out for you, you then ascribe your own interpretations to certain words and phrases. If God thundered down from the Heavens and admonished you, you would STILL deny his existence.

But I am confident that if others are paying attention and checking out the links, they will find you are blowing smoke on this one. Saying you were wrong wouldn't begin to cover it.

Archaeologist claims evidence of Noah’s biblical flood

If YOU could read, you'd know that I'm agnostic, as I see no proof for or against the possibility of a god, and am open to changing my mind either way given real proof, whatever it is. But so far I haven't found anything that proves that a god exists, or that proves that a 40 days flood covered the whole world, or even all of the Middle East, if you're one of those regionalist flood apologists.

There is no point with attempting to reason with you. I pray to God you never have to serve on a jury. You lack discernment. You can't weight evidence because it's beyond you took at the facts.

What is it that you think you have to post all day long about this? No life?

You have no real facts to look at. If you ever find some, come and show them to me.

 

[Taz]

I was taking the spelling from hob, so take that up with my jew.

So was the Flood a worldwide flood or a myth?

Science can uncover the existence of something, I agree, but so far, no god has been discovered by science. So you either take it all or leave it all, you can't start cherry-picking science as well.

NOBODY is cherry picking stuff. Do you want to troll or have a civil conversation?

In my opinion, the flood was NOT worldwide. For one thing, the Chinese were aware of Noah; the flood overflowed the Tarim Basin and it was duly noted by Chinese historians.

Scientifically, if we presume the flood covered the entire earth - and use that to be synonymous with the planet, then the critics win. There are places where the rain would have to be six miles deep. We know that was not the case. Moses could only write about the land as he knew it. And so as far as the eye could see and far as people traveled in the time of Moses, everything was under water.

People are operating under this false assumption that the Bible was about all the men on earth; however, this is easily proven to be an error believers cannot accept. The Bible only claims to be about one people. Genesis 5 : 1 states: "This is the book of the generations of Adam." The Bible does not claim to be about the predecessors of Adam. The only relevance other people have in the Bible relative to Adam is when their paths crossed.

There are both literal and figurative truths in the Bible. The Bible, correctly interpreted, does not say that God created man in six "days" we understand the term; it does not say that that the flood covered the whole world.

The term earth comes from the Hebrew word ehrets and as used in Genesis and only means a common country, land, nations, wilderness... but never does it mean the entire planet.

So what about a flood that drowned everyone regionally for 40 days? No proof for that either. And the Chinese may have known about a flood but they didn't know about Noah.

So god made Adam out of nothing or was evolution involved?

You ARE cherry-picking because at some points you say "they didn't mean that" and at others you quote word for word. That, my friend, is called cherry-picking the bible.

No, Taz. This has been explained to you dozens of times. The fact that YOU keep cherry picking the Bible by making literal interpretations of allegorical accounts is how I know you are a militant atheist on a mission.

The 40 day flood wasn't meant to be allegorical, you moved the goalposts there because you know that such a flood has no geologic proof. And if you're allowed to cherry-pick the bible like that, why can't I? does it have to be cherry-picked in a certain way?

Your standard canard is getting boring and watching you get your rump kicked on this issue in't entertaining.

You still can't prove a 40 day flood. Now matter how much you try to insult me, must be something you learned from jesus.

 

[Taz]

God is the God of the living. You can't blame God for your poor hygiene.
'
God doesn't visit foul and loathsome creatures, much less the dead.

Even if they dropped their drawers bent over and winked.

God tossed Adam and Eve out of Eden for having hetero sex. I wouldn’t even have to wink.

You read the story and thats what you got out of it? God tossed Adam and Eve out of Eden for having hetero sex?

okey dokey..very funny, ha ha. But, Wait a minute! ... Where's your proof? lol... what a maroon!


Obviously you never understood the lessons in The Tale of the Puppet either..

If naughty boys remain on Pleasure Island for too long those donkeys ears are there to stay. (Pinocchio 3:14)

You are the proof.

Thems the breaks. You should have listened to the talking cricket. Ask any scientist.

I would say that I felt sorry for you if I did. Really, I would..

You have to know how to read the bible,
God wanted Adam to stay in homo heaven with Him, but Adam chose the chick and now we're all fucked!

Bathhouse Eden

Because Adam was stuck on Steve, Eve got so horny she started seeing phallic images everywhere, even one that started talking to her.

The level of disrespect for this topic you've shown should make you feel embarrassed and ashamed.

But it doesn't! Poor you.

 

[sealybobo]

It means you better try to be a good person because being bad could lead to punishment or bad karma.

I know you don't believe but I'll share with you anyway.

A number of people who have had NDE's have shared accounts of how they had a "life review". In their reviews, they themselves could feel the pain that they had caused others. I think our creator wants us to love one another and do no harm. Perhaps we re-visit the harm we cause others in our own life review so that we can understand our own evil and learn from it so that, hopefully, we don't want to do it again. By the way, I also don't believe we just automatically appear in Heaven. I believe we have a "purging" process (purgatory) in which we are spiritually cleansed before entering into Heaven. It's sort of like your kids coming in after playing outside in the mud, they've got to get cleaned up before they can join you in the family room, so to speak.

Hope your wish is right. I got nothing against god. I do everything right. Good to the people around me. Good to strangers. Environmentally conscious. Not a liar, thief, murderer, I honor my parents I don’t cover my neighbors wives.

I just don’t believe. Nor do I think a god would care that humans on earth believe. He would totally understand why we came to that conclusion.

That’s my only problem with theists. They insist believing matters. And it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as you pick one they have a truce. The one thing theists can’t stand is disbelief in all. Because it’s calling bs on all the above

 

[Taz]

"Had to"? It is dishonest, aggressive, and predatory to exclude the alternative, which is that things existed forever, but could change forms, as in the Thermodynamic Law of Conservation of Energy.

It sounds like ABG theory (Anything but God). But, yea, maybe the universe has just always existed. Although the evidence of the Big Bang suggests that the universe had a beginning.

Maybe the BB wasn't the beginning but part of an endless cycle of expansion and collapse?

 

[sealybobo]

This one universe sure. Is it the only? We can’t know that. What was before? We can’t know that either. At least not yet

As long as we're living, we're not going to have absolute proof. Although there are people who swear that they died and met Jesus or Satan, etc. Many of them have been hardcore atheists. Anyway, what I look for is the preponderance of the evidence. I believe we have a creator, but I don't KNOW that we do. In my view, however, the evidence FOR a creator significantly outweighs any evidence to the contrary.

Well the more I understand how we got here the more open I am to the possibility there is no god. So what?

I certainly don’t believe in the god religions refer to.

 

[K9Buck]

It means you better try to be a good person because being bad could lead to punishment or bad karma.

I know you don't believe but I'll share with you anyway.

A number of people who have had NDE's have shared accounts of how they had a "life review". In their reviews, they themselves could feel the pain that they had caused others. I think our creator wants us to love one another and do no harm. Perhaps we re-visit the harm we cause others in our own life review so that we can understand our own evil and learn from it so that, hopefully, we don't want to do it again. By the way, I also don't believe we just automatically appear in Heaven. I believe we have a "purging" process (purgatory) in which we are spiritually cleansed before entering into Heaven. It's sort of like your kids coming in after playing outside in the mud, they've got to get cleaned up before they can join you in the family room, so to speak.

Hope your wish is right. I got nothing against god. I do everything right. Good to the people around me. Good to strangers. Environmentally conscious. Not a liar, thief, murderer, I honor my parents I don’t cover my neighbors wives.

I just don’t believe. Nor do I think a god would care that humans on earth believe. He would totally understand why we came to that conclusion.

That’s my only problem with theists. They insist believing matters. And it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as you pick one they have a truce. The one thing theists can’t stand is disbelief in all. Because it’s calling bs on all the above

I think your position is fair and rationale. I believe science indicates a creator. I believe logic indicates a creator. I believe the seemingly countless NDE accounts indicates a creator. And I believe other, anecdotal "evidence" indicates a creator.

I think faith is sort of like a gift. Those who have faith can live life believing that, even when things look bad that, in the end, it's all going to be ok. He will wipe away every tear. Those that are agnostic or even atheist, I believe, will meet our creator at death and then they can decide whether or not they want to accept or reject him.

 

[K9Buck]

I certainly don’t believe in the god religions refer to.

Well, religions are philosophies on how we should live life, treat others, etc. Everyone follows a religion, in many cases, their own.

 

[K9Buck]

Maybe the BB wasn't the beginning but part of an endless cycle of expansion and collapse?

That's possible, but I've seen no evidence to support that theory.

 

[sealybobo]

It means you better try to be a good person because being bad could lead to punishment or bad karma.

I know you don't believe but I'll share with you anyway.

A number of people who have had NDE's have shared accounts of how they had a "life review". In their reviews, they themselves could feel the pain that they had caused others. I think our creator wants us to love one another and do no harm. Perhaps we re-visit the harm we cause others in our own life review so that we can understand our own evil and learn from it so that, hopefully, we don't want to do it again. By the way, I also don't believe we just automatically appear in Heaven. I believe we have a "purging" process (purgatory) in which we are spiritually cleansed before entering into Heaven. It's sort of like your kids coming in after playing outside in the mud, they've got to get cleaned up before they can join you in the family room, so to speak.

Hope your wish is right. I got nothing against god. I do everything right. Good to the people around me. Good to strangers. Environmentally conscious. Not a liar, thief, murderer, I honor my parents I don’t cover my neighbors wives.

I just don’t believe. Nor do I think a god would care that humans on earth believe. He would totally understand why we came to that conclusion.

That’s my only problem with theists. They insist believing matters. And it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as you pick one they have a truce. The one thing theists can’t stand is disbelief in all. Because it’s calling bs on all the above

I think your position is fair and rationale. I believe science indicates a creator. I believe logic indicates a creator. I believe the seemingly countless NDE accounts indicates a creator. And I believe other, anecdotal "evidence" indicates a creator.

I think faith is sort of like a gift. Those who have faith can live life believing that, even when things look bad that, in the end, it's all going to be ok. He will wipe away every tear. Those that are agnostic or even atheist, I believe, will meet our creator at death and then they can decide whether or not they want to accept or reject him.

Who wouldn’t accept him? Who wouldn’t cry for doubting?

Atheists believe that we are better off not waiting for an afterlife to improve our situation. Baptists teach their flock to cope with their woes. Don’t worry it’ll be better after you’re dead

 

[sealybobo]

I certainly don’t believe in the god religions refer to.

Well, religions are philosophies on how we should live life, treat others, etc. Everyone follows a religion, in many cases, their own.

I never had a problem with religion till they got political.

And Muslims.

And joe Lieberman buddying up with George bush on Iraq. He was representing Israel not his home state.

Religion, good god, what is it good for absolutely nothing say it again war! Lol

 

[K9Buck]

Who wouldn’t accept him? Who wouldn’t cry for doubting?

Atheists believe that we are better off not waiting for an afterlife to improve our situation. Baptists teach their flock to cope with their woes. Don’t worry it’ll be better after you’re dead

So many people who have had an NDE talk about how incredible it was to meet Jesus, etc. I can't fathom why anyone would reject our creator, but I suppose it's possible. On another note, the NDE's of people who claim to have gone to Hell are also very intriguing. Some of them were atheists and others were alleged Christians that apparently lived very bad lives. My gut feeling is that some may go to Hell, but I doubt anyone remains in Hell. And "Hell" might just be a wake-up call to souls who are really lost so that they can experience what it means to totally reject God. But, again, that's just my take. I might be wrong about everything. For that matter, my wife tells me I'm wrong all the time.

 

[K9Buck]

I certainly don’t believe in the god religions refer to.

Well, religions are philosophies on how we should live life, treat others, etc. Everyone follows a religion, in many cases, their own.

I never had a problem with religion till they got political.

And Muslims.

And joe Lieberman buddying up with George bush on Iraq. He was representing Israel not his home state.

Religion, good god, what is it good for absolutely nothing say it again war! Lol

Well, I was raised a Catholic, but some would say I'm not a true Catholic because I don't necessarily believe everything the church teaches. I am NOT a fan of this pope nor am I fan of the many sexual abuse scandals that have plagued the church. I think the church is under extraordinary attack from dark forces, but I'll understand if that causes you to roll your eyes. Ha!

 

[tycho1572]

I, personally, believe that there is a god. What that means, though, I have been struggling with for quite some time. Therefore, I pose the questions:

1. If there is a god, what does that mean?
2. If there is not a god, what does that mean?

I am looking for opinion, obviously, I do not believe there will ever be proof, or empirical evidence (at least not until rapture, assuming that there is a god). What I am looking for here is what people believe. What leads you to believe what you do? Why?

Let me be clear, I am NOT looking for evangelism of any kind here. I am looking for what the presence of god (or lack of a god) means to you. I know this is a pretty ambiguous thread, and I do that on purpose, because I do not ant to influence the way anyone responds. I want to open a discussion about what your beliefs (whatever they are) have shaped who you are, how you look at religion (in general), and how you look at the world.

Here’s my opinion....
Faith is believing in a power greater than oneself.

It’s good for people to believe there is power greater than themselves. It’s a belief that has helped many people through difficult times.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

God tossed Adam and Eve out of Eden for having hetero sex. I wouldn’t even have to wink.

You read the story and thats what you got out of it? God tossed Adam and Eve out of Eden for having hetero sex?

okey dokey..very funny, ha ha. But, Wait a minute! ... Where's your proof? lol... what a maroon!


Obviously you never understood the lessons in The Tale of the Puppet either..

If naughty boys remain on Pleasure Island for too long those donkeys ears are there to stay. (Pinocchio 3:14)

You are the proof.

Thems the breaks. You should have listened to the talking cricket. Ask any scientist.

I would say that I felt sorry for you if I did. Really, I would..

Adam and Eve get punished for disobeying God's command and atheists want to focus on it all being about sex???

They don't like going further into history for fear of being faced with the truth.

Hey, it's a made up story so I'm allowed to make stuff up as well, why do you get to have all the fun?

I haven't made anything up. I've given links to what archaeologists and other scientists say. They're pretty much satisfied with the account of Noah being true.

I wonder what you'd think if America broke out into a major world war and all this computer junk was destroyed. There was no more record of our existence as satellites were shot down, etc, and a hundred years later, even if someone found a hard drive, it would be like hieroglyphics to the modern archaeologists. People would then look to that body of circumstantial evidence and argue that you ever existed.

Being mostly trained in law, as a legal matter, the weight of evidence says the flood account IS true, not the dishonest way you present it, however. Science seems to be in agreement. If this were a flood thread, and it is not, I'd present many different hypotheses and introduce many witness accounts. But, you wouldn't know when you lost because you've closed the door as well as your mind.

What evidence shows that the flood is true? I've never seen any evidence for a 40 day worldwide flood. And no, scientists aren't satisfied enough to say that the story of Noah happened. You made that up. Your previous link only showed some scientists looking for evidence of a regional flood of not so great proportions that the story of Noah MIGHT BE BASED ON. Man, you live in a fantasy world.

Self-Righteous Extortion

Why even assume it was a flood? That distracts from the focus of the story, which was that God was a mass-murderer. So we better watch out and do everything the Theists tell us will save mankind from another near-extinction, especially dropping a wad in the collection plate to make their clerics richer!

 

[K9Buck]

Here’s my opinion....
Faith is believing in a power greater than oneself.

It’s good for people to believe there is power greater than themselves. It’s a belief that has helped many people through difficult times.

At it's most basic, I think one either believes that we have a creator or one believes that the universe caused itself to come into existence. I know which of the two sounds more likely.

 

[tycho1572]

What I can’t understand is why atheists and liberals target people who believe in God.

 

[K9Buck]

So we better watch out and do everything the Theists tell us will save mankind from another near-extinction, especially dropping a wad in the collection plate to make their clerics richer!

For every bible-thumping theist out there, there's a ridiculing, mocking guy like this.

 

[tycho1572]

Here’s my opinion....
Faith is believing in a power greater than oneself.

It’s good for people to believe there is power greater than themselves. It’s a belief that has helped many people through difficult times.

At it's most basic, I think one either believes that we have a creator or one believes that the universe caused itself to come into existence. I know which of the two sounds more likely.

Does it really matter?
I’m good with respecting the beliefs of others.