Is the intention a Civil War ?

[lukelk]

obama sees himself as another Lincoln. Lincoln kept the union together. obama cannot be the same kind of president as Lincoln unless there is a civil war and he can keep the country together. Except this time, he won't keep the country together but facilitate its divide.

Ah yes the nazi speaks, sit down little girl.

 

[Redbone]

JB Williams -- Is Obama Pushing for a Civil War?

Paranoid much?

I'd much rather be paranoid than naive and complacent. Being prepared even when something doesn't happen, keeps you from asking "how did that happen?"

Being never prepared is the way taught by the socialists democrats because they so desperately need their victim class to cater to and buy votes from.

 

[ArmyCowboy]

Paranoid much?

I'd much rather be paranoid than naive and complacent. Being prepared even when something doesn't happen, keeps you from asking "how did that happen?"

Being never prepared is the way taught by the socialists democrats because they so desperately need their victim class to cater to and buy votes from.

Such a short post, so many right wing radio talking points.

 

[Katzndogz]

obama sees himself as another Lincoln. Lincoln kept the union together. obama cannot be the same kind of president as Lincoln unless there is a civil war and he can keep the country together. Except this time, he won't keep the country together but facilitate its divide.

Ah yes the nazi speaks, sit down little girl.

Godwin's Law much?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

He would be bringing rebelling states back into the union, same as Lincoln did.

And before you ask, I personally would have no problem following orders and firing on rebels and traitors

Yeah....I wouldnt mind shooting some OWS scum myself. Fucken commies.

Do you have the stones to actually put on a uniform or do you jut like to talk tough behind a computer?

To old. And we weren't at war in 83 and I didnt need money for college.

 

[ArmyCowboy]

Yeah....I wouldnt mind shooting some OWS scum myself. Fucken commies.

Do you have the stones to actually put on a uniform or do you jut like to talk tough behind a computer?

To old. And we weren't at war in 83 and I didnt need money for college.

Of course.

We were at war in '90 and '91 though....Oh I forgot...flat feet or something, right?

 

[Katzndogz]

Yeah....I wouldnt mind shooting some OWS scum myself. Fucken commies.

Do you have the stones to actually put on a uniform or do you jut like to talk tough behind a computer?

To old. And we weren't at war in 83 and I didnt need money for college.

Age doesn't mean anything.

86-year-old woman grabs gun in self-defense | News - Home

She told us she's been the victim of theft many times before, and she's had enough and it was time to take a stand. "I told different people if I ever catch them, I mean to kill them," said Louise Howard.

Louise Howard may be 86 years old, but she isn't afraid to defend her home or her life.

On Friday afternoon she was forced to do that. Howard said a young woman broke the glass on her door and forced her way inside. "I was in shock. I didn't know what she was going to do to me!" Howard said.

Howard immediately grabbed her gun, but the two started to struggle down the hall. "I already had my gun in my hand, and I wouldn't turn it loose for anything," she explained.

Howard's hands are proof she wasn't letting go. "She stuck a fingernail in there," said Howard. "She moved her hands, sort of released me a bit. I moved over like that, and I was going to shoot her in the stomach, but she took her knee and hit my elbow."

 

[ArmyCowboy]

Do you have the stones to actually put on a uniform or do you jut like to talk tough behind a computer?

To old. And we weren't at war in 83 and I didnt need money for college.

Age doesn't mean anything.

86-year-old woman grabs gun in self-defense | News - Home

She told us she's been the victim of theft many times before, and she's had enough and it was time to take a stand. "I told different people if I ever catch them, I mean to kill them," said Louise Howard.

Louise Howard may be 86 years old, but she isn't afraid to defend her home or her life.

On Friday afternoon she was forced to do that. Howard said a young woman broke the glass on her door and forced her way inside. "I was in shock. I didn't know what she was going to do to me!" Howard said.

Howard immediately grabbed her gun, but the two started to struggle down the hall. "I already had my gun in my hand, and I wouldn't turn it loose for anything," she explained.

Howard's hands are proof she wasn't letting go. "She stuck a fingernail in there," said Howard. "She moved her hands, sort of released me a bit. I moved over like that, and I was going to shoot her in the stomach, but she took her knee and hit my elbow."

Age matters for military service, which is what was being discussed.

 

[PratchettFan]

I think some form of secession is much more likely than a civil war. The country is so divided philosophically right now, it will be very hard to bring it back together, and obama is doing everything possible to deepen the divide.

I think you are over reacting a bit. The country has been just as divided or worse in the past, and still we are united. We were born divided, yet we remain united. Obama does appear intent on leadership through dividing us into groups and pitting us against each other, but he has lots of help coming from the right as well.

We the American people will get through this. I don't see a Civil War happening where 2 sides fight it out. I could see some sort of revolution/rebellion aimed at the government happening, but I don't think we are going to line up and fight it out left vs right in the streets.

If things ever got so bad, and it was clear the Federal Government had become nothing more than a dictatorship, I think the actual most likely Scenario would be a Military Coup. Every member of our military, from the Top Brass down to the private. Swears an oath, not to the Government, or even the people, but to defend and protect the Constitution of the United states.

I would note a couple of thing from your comment. First, I think you are probably right. I don't really see a civil war coming. People are getting antsy though. However, while we have been at each other's throats before over very serious matters, we are now talking about fundamentally altering the structure of the country. If we become a social democracy, we cannot also be a Constitutional Republic. You can see the stresses and strains of trying to still act like we have one now. It just doesn't work. Eventually, the sham will be unmasked and it will be out in the open. As I said, I think the game is over already. We passed the health care law and upheld in the court. The government now controls our bodies. There really isn't much left after that. Understand I'm boiling this down to brass tacks we can quibble over the details but if you want to look 10 years into the future, that's what's there.

Will people fight over the loss of the Constitutional Republic? I dunno. It is useful, maybe instructive to note that in the American Revolution only about 1/3 of the people living here were in favor. About 1/3 against and 1/3 just wanted to be left alone.

How are we fundamentally altering the structure of the country?

 

[Uncensored2008]

JB Williams -- Is Obama Pushing for a Civil War?

Yes.

Any other questions?

 

[Katzndogz]

To old. And we weren't at war in 83 and I didnt need money for college.

Age doesn't mean anything.

86-year-old woman grabs gun in self-defense | News - Home

She told us she's been the victim of theft many times before, and she's had enough and it was time to take a stand. "I told different people if I ever catch them, I mean to kill them," said Louise Howard.

Louise Howard may be 86 years old, but she isn't afraid to defend her home or her life.

On Friday afternoon she was forced to do that. Howard said a young woman broke the glass on her door and forced her way inside. "I was in shock. I didn't know what she was going to do to me!" Howard said.

Howard immediately grabbed her gun, but the two started to struggle down the hall. "I already had my gun in my hand, and I wouldn't turn it loose for anything," she explained.

Howard's hands are proof she wasn't letting go. "She stuck a fingernail in there," said Howard. "She moved her hands, sort of released me a bit. I moved over like that, and I was going to shoot her in the stomach, but she took her knee and hit my elbow."

Age matters for military service, which is what was being discussed.

Only to you! The topic is whether or not the intention is a civil war. A war which by definition involves far more than the military. If you wish for a discussion limited to internal conflicts which only involve the military, start one. There's a forum for military matters to help you.

It might be appropriate to remind you that there is a reason why civil wars are called civil wars. They involve civilians. That's by definition. Otherwise it would be a military coup, or perhaps a rebellion, but not a civil war.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Why has this thread remained in politics when it so clearly deserves to be moved to the conspiracy theory section, or even the rubber room?

Leftist hacks gonna hack...

 

[PratchettFan]

We need this agreement, and anything we don't agree on can be delegated by PARTY which can be state, local, federal etc. We can do this, and it can be completely civil!

It would never work, different federal services for each state? nope, not workable.

It would have to be a complete break, and it could be civil. I am sure that Texas and Louisiana would be glad to sell oil to the northern states, and they could sell us--------------oops, they don't make anything that we need.

1. we can let the parties work that out per state. The Reps, Dems, Greens Libertarians Occupy and Tea Party have national umbrella networks and also state and local.

2. TX NM AZ and CA (and FL) have issues with immigration and trafficking
that affect these states more than others. if you look at the restitution owed for crimes
per state, this is relative and proportional to the population.

So if each state assesses its underfunded historic/environmental landmarks, which can be restored to create sustainable jobs and campuses for education and service internships,
we can localize economic development, and only delegate to federal govt what cannot be done per state.

This will streamline and simplify a lot of the bureaucracy of federal govt.
The major parties are experienced with organizing between the federal, state and local levels and can use their representatives and district/precinct groups to address this.

So shift the responsibility to the parties to pay for their own proposed programs and policies,
and they can restructure it per state etc. since they have elected reps on all levels.

NOTE: The Greens have been advocating for forms of proportional representation by Party, and also for independent/local currency, and run their platforms based on consensus decisions. So the Greens and Libertarians could be called on to help facilitate how to separate out the issues to be delegated per Party and take this burden off federal govt.

What you are talking about is a completely new constitution.

 

[ArmyCowboy]

Age doesn't mean anything.

86-year-old woman grabs gun in self-defense | News - Home

She told us she's been the victim of theft many times before, and she's had enough and it was time to take a stand. "I told different people if I ever catch them, I mean to kill them," said Louise Howard.

Louise Howard may be 86 years old, but she isn't afraid to defend her home or her life.

On Friday afternoon she was forced to do that. Howard said a young woman broke the glass on her door and forced her way inside. "I was in shock. I didn't know what she was going to do to me!" Howard said.

Howard immediately grabbed her gun, but the two started to struggle down the hall. "I already had my gun in my hand, and I wouldn't turn it loose for anything," she explained.

Howard's hands are proof she wasn't letting go. "She stuck a fingernail in there," said Howard. "She moved her hands, sort of released me a bit. I moved over like that, and I was going to shoot her in the stomach, but she took her knee and hit my elbow."

Age matters for military service, which is what was being discussed.

Only to you! The topic is whether or not the intention is a civil war. A war which by definition involves far more than the military. If you wish for a discussion limited to internal conflicts which only involve the military, start one. There's a forum for military matters to help you.

It might be appropriate to remind you that there is a reason why civil wars are called civil wars. They involve civilians. That's by definition. Otherwise it would be a military coup, or perhaps a rebellion, but not a civil war.

I and another member were discussing personal military service. Hence the talk about age, which he brough up, not I.

As for your civil war fantasies, there isn't going to be one. However, you're certainly withing your rights to spend you're alone time fantasizing about it.

 

[Uncensored2008]

War is possible, I agree.

But in the forseeable future it is extremely unlikely.

The only ones with a taste for war are the militia types and the fundamentalist extremists like Katz. That's about 200 people. They couldn't take over a gas station.

What you of the anti-liberty left make the mistake of is thinking that military will support you.

You sit back and say; "Those damned Constitutionalists clinging to their guns and Bill of Rights are no match for the United State Army!" But that assumes the Army would support you.

I'm glad he's dead, but one thing Dorner did is prove the cops are no match for an armed citizenry.

 

[ArmyCowboy]

War is possible, I agree.

But in the forseeable future it is extremely unlikely.

The only ones with a taste for war are the militia types and the fundamentalist extremists like Katz. That's about 200 people. They couldn't take over a gas station.

What you of the anti-liberty left make the mistake of is thinking that military will support you.

You sit back and say; "Those damned Constitutionalists clinging to their guns and Bill of Rights are no match for the United State Army!" But that assumes the Army would support you.

I'm glad he's dead, but one thing Dorner did is prove the cops are no match for an armed citizenry.

More republican porn.

 

[PratchettFan]

Really it was a question of "legal" secession under the Constitution. The concept was that conventions, not legislatures voted for the Constitution (accepting the social contract), so only conventions elected for the purpose could remove a state from the union (repudiation of the social contract). Philosophically, the southern states were correct.

However, they were then introduced to another concept of political philosophy: Might makes right.

So, point really proved is, if you are bad enough to kick the other guy's ass, then it doesn't matter what the "right way is" period. Some bullies on here are proud of that fact. I don't think it's anything to be proud of.

But, the point for the future is, if the other side doesn't have the stones to keep the country together no matter what the cost, then the seceding side wins. If the seceding side can kick the ass of the non-seceding side, then the seceding side wins. If they can't then the other side wins. Simple as that. The court will always back the result. Again see White v. Texas.

No seceeding states are going to be able to defeat the US military, they'll be crushed.

If that's what you want, go for it.

I was just providing analysis. I didn't state a position. I don't think secession would happen today. I can't see clear lines like there were in the 1860s. It would be pointless for a hadgepodge to secede. If you had something contiguous, maybe. AL, MS, LA, TX & OK maybe? Would northeastern liberals support the body count of an aggressive war against peaceful secessionists? Hmmm. Would the military fire on them? what about the ones from those states? would they stay in the US military or go with their state?

But, I can't see it happening. I think if anything would happen it would be country wide anarchy or revolt. Hotter in some areas than others, but all over.

For me, the question isn't whether Vermont would accept the secession of Georgia. Would the citizens of Atlanta accept it? The lines are no longer about states but about urban vs rural. Does Atlanta seceed from Georgia? Does Dallas seceed from Texas? Do we end up with two nations which share 1,000 seperate borders?

All of this is moot since there is not a single state which has even begun the discussion of considering the idea of secession.

 

[PratchettFan]

War is possible, I agree.

But in the forseeable future it is extremely unlikely.

The only ones with a taste for war are the militia types and the fundamentalist extremists like Katz. That's about 200 people. They couldn't take over a gas station.

What you of the anti-liberty left make the mistake of is thinking that military will support you.

You sit back and say; "Those damned Constitutionalists clinging to their guns and Bill of Rights are no match for the United State Army!" But that assumes the Army would support you.

I'm glad he's dead, but one thing Dorner did is prove the cops are no match for an armed citizenry.

1. The military will follow the commands of the legal government. I think the civil war demonstrated that.

2. I wish people who keep talking about the Constitution would take the time to actually read it.

3. Dorner wasn't impeded in the least by an armed citizenry. He was killed in a shootout with police.

 

[ArmyCowboy]

No seceeding states are going to be able to defeat the US military, they'll be crushed.

If that's what you want, go for it.

I was just providing analysis. I didn't state a position. I don't think secession would happen today. I can't see clear lines like there were in the 1860s. It would be pointless for a hadgepodge to secede. If you had something contiguous, maybe. AL, MS, LA, TX & OK maybe? Would northeastern liberals support the body count of an aggressive war against peaceful secessionists? Hmmm. Would the military fire on them? what about the ones from those states? would they stay in the US military or go with their state?

But, I can't see it happening. I think if anything would happen it would be country wide anarchy or revolt. Hotter in some areas than others, but all over.

For me, the question isn't whether Vermont would accept the secession of Georgia. Would the citizens of Atlanta accept it? The lines are no longer about states but about urban vs rural. Does Atlanta seceed from Georgia? Does Dallas seceed from Texas? Do we end up with two nations which share 1,000 seperate borders?

All of this is moot since there is not a single state which has even begun the discussion of considering the idea of secession.

Very good point.

The bluest states have deep red areas while the reddest states have blue areas.

Here in Texas, a very red state, the larger cities are blue.

At the end of the day though, outside of a few on the extreme left and right fringe, Americans are too fat and happy to consider risking their lives in some misguided civil war.

 

[candycorn]

JB Williams -- Is Obama Pushing for a Civil War?

It is a marvelous statement about the nature of our society that even this idiot can speak his mind and have a following.

Sadly, I think that is where we're going. Why do you think there are lines outside of the sporting goods stores (the ones that sell Ammo and guns) on Saturday morning....go check tomorrow?

They're buying bullets and they're going to use them to shoot people they don't like. It's that simple. It isn't about the ACA; it isn't about taxes; it isn't even about wanting to impose background checks to see if an insane person is trying to buy a gun....

It's about the lessening influence of the right wing and they only method they have for retaining power is by resorting to hostilities. You don't believe me? You think I'm overstating it? Strike up a converation on the board here. Inside of 4-5 responses, you'll get the profanity either followed by or proceeded by a whacky conspiracy theory that would make most 9-11 twoofers giggle.