Is the "free stuff" remark fair to Sanders?

[LordBrownTrout]

Bernie Sanders gives the deliberate impression he is going to give the masses all kinds of free stuff and the "billionaire class" will pay for every penny of it.

You are a rube of the first order if you believe either part of the former or the latter.

do you deny that there are 2nd & 3rd order benefits of combating the Rx, Insurance & banking cartels?

And here we have Left Wing Logic:

1. The Government must do something.

2. This is something.

3. The Government must do this.

ummm..... the "too big to fail" banks are larger now than they were in 2008. You like "HAVING" to rescue those monopolies when they eventually get more greedy than they already are and precipitate another 2008 & fail again sending the econ into another tail spin?

RX & Insurance cartels speak for themselves.

Unreal. O voted for tarp. You had no problem with O rescuing them. I was against it from day one.

 

[Mac1958]

Honest, non-crazed liberals:

• Don Lemon weighs in on PC culture Liberals are the most easily offended and the least tolerant - Salon.com
• Not a Very P.C. Thing to Say -- NYMag
• Liberal Turley against political correctness in News Forum
• Are Liberals Becoming Too Sensitive and Politically Correct
• Jim Webb says Democratic Party has lost its way - The Washington Post
• John Stuart Mill s Argument Against Political...
• Dem Blames Political Correctness for Fort Hood Workplace Violence Controversy - ABC News
• Is the New Political Correctness Already Dying -- NYMag
• I don t know what to do you guys Fredrik deBoer
• http://www.forwardprogressives.com/liberals-becoming-sensitive-politically-correct/
• http://www.vox.com/2015/6/3/8706323/college-professor-afraid
• http://www.socialmemorycomplex.net/leftlibertarian/2012/06/12/a-leftist-critique-of-political-correctness/
• College Students Say Remembering 9/11 Is Offensive to Muslims
• How Diversity Police Halt Progress
  
• My view: Political correctness should not inhibit free speech
  
• http://scienceblogs.com/webeasties/2013/05/21/science-racism-and-political-correctness/
• http://www.hawkeyelounge.com/threads/liberal-columnist-leonard-pitts-asks-if-weve-overdone-political-correctness.130665/
• #CancelColbert and the Return of the Anti-Liberal Left
• REED: When liberals become illiberal
• PC Police Out Of Control In Possibly The Most Absurd Story I've Ever Come Across
• “Political Correctness” | The Progressive Professor
• How Liberals Ruined College
• Rushdie warns of new dangers to free speech in West

 

[LordBrownTrout]

"free stuff" is a ridiculous lie contrived by the right.

Absolutely not.

 

[nat4900]

The primary question to me is the point of equilibrium at which the amount "free" things a government "provides" become a net drag on the efficiency & growth of an economy, a society and a culture.

HAD Sanders suggested something that is altogether novel, I too would be much more skeptic, but what he is proposing are issues fully implemented by other industrialized countries (many our staunch allies) ...What is it about the indoctrination of conservatives that makes them believe that we would rather be "unique" even if that uniqueness is actually detrimental to our standard of living?

 

[nat4900]

Perhaps the MOST important admission that Sanders has made is one that ALL candidates (including Trump) should make....that is, that unless congress changes and gets off its fat arse, nothing will be done. Sanders' "revolution" does call for common Americans to no longer be bullshitted into thinking that they are electing people to do THEIR bidding and quickly finding out that those elected nitiwits are only doing the bidding of those who bribed them the most.

All that Sanders is proposing is that our priorities change.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Bernie Sanders gives the deliberate impression he is going to give the masses all kinds of free stuff and the "billionaire class" will pay for every penny of it.

You are a rube of the first order if you believe either part of the former or the latter.

do you deny that there are 2nd & 3rd order benefits of combating the Rx, Insurance & banking cartels?

And here we have Left Wing Logic:

1. The Government must do something.

2. This is something.

3. The Government must do this.

And RW Logic:

1. There is no problem sicne it doesn't affect negatively to my Donors.

2. Do nothing that will negatively affect my donors

3 All others, let them eat cake. How did that work out for the last King and Queen of France.

The General public is fed up and extremes will be elected. Instead of the people we need, we end up with a Cruz/Trump/Bernie.

 

[Mac1958]

The primary question to me is the point of equilibrium at which the amount "free" things a government "provides" become a net drag on the efficiency & growth of an economy, a society and a culture.

HAD Sanders suggested something that is altogether novel, I too would be much more skeptic, but what he is proposing are issues fully implemented by other industrialized countries (many our staunch allies) ...What is it about the indoctrination of conservatives that makes them believe that we would rather be "unique" even if that uniqueness is actually detrimental to our standard of living?

Fair question, I dunno.

There is an echo chamber there, obviously, and it amplifies and reinforces memes.

I understand the attraction of being different, but it doesn't mean we have be different in every way.
.

 

[Dovahkiin]

Of course it's not free, most educated people know this. However, economically, we need to be propping up the government and running higher deficits, which is why I support sanders. Of course, the opposition people have to sanders comes from the almost religious obsession with the raw debt number.
(Yes, I don't support Hillary due to my research into MMT and some readings my friend gave me on neoliberalism and Hillary..)

 

[Searcher44]

Many of us have learned on this forum that to expect right wingers to be "fair and balanced" (love that Fox slogan) is a fool's errand......Nonetheless, is it really fair to simply state that Sanders is offering "free stuff" without any plan as to how to finance the largess .....or is it just partisan bullshit?

Right wingers may strongly disagree with Sanders about a Medicare for all plan regarding health care insurance, but to be fair, he has stated that indeed a tax would be imposed on individuals and families, but the return on the savings (which would basically screw over PRIVATE health insurers) would be substantial. We may think of ourselves as "exceptional", but such HC deliveries have existed in other industrialized countries for decades and to say that we could not do the same is an admission that we may be far from exceptional.

Second, the "free stuff" regarding college tuition has also been addressed by Sanders....Primarily his source of income would be generated from taxing the gambling speculations of Wall Streeters....but more important is Sanders' reasoning that a college degree in the 21st century is the equivalent of a HS diploma and that we have long made high school attendance both mandatory and free.

You may not agree with Sanders....but at least stick to your proper reasons for the disagreement.

In Canada we have more of what your cons would consider "free stuff" I think. We call our policies generating this free stuff "socially responsible". Our debt to GDP ratio is around +/- 55%, yours is +/- 95%. As long as Americans insist on maintaining armed forces strong enough to control the rest of the World, continue policies like allowing your major corporations to stash trillions of dollars in offshore tax havens, let economic benefits gained by your country's increased productivity flow to the very top, etc. then of course to pay for a fairer society the U.S. debt would have to continue to rise. Those are choices that the Oligarch's propaganda machine seems to have convinced the majority of you to make in their favor.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Is it fair? What else is there to socialism besides promising "free stuff"?

Socialism fixes what capitalism fucks up.

Yeah, look what it did for Venezuela

Venezuela under 'economic emergency' as court gives Maduro decree powers

 

[nat4900]

In Canada we have more of what your cons would consider "free stuff" I think. We call our policies generating this free stuff "socially responsible". Our debt to GDP ratio is around +/- 55%, yours is +/- 95%. As long as Americans insist on maintaining armed forces strong enough to control the rest of the World, continue policies like allowing your major corporations to stash trillions of dollars in offshore tax havens, let economic benefits gained by your country's increased productivity flow to the very top, etc. then of course to pay for a fairer society the U.S. debt would have to continue to rise. Those are choices that the Oligarch's propaganda machine seems to have convinced the majority of you to make in their favor.

I've always wondered if you good Canadians actually laugh at the stupidity, ignorance and ultra-partisanship that American citizens seem to exemplify....Please bear in mind that we are NOT all this moronic.

 

[nat4900]

Is it fair? What else is there to socialism besides promising "free stuff"?

Socialism fixes what capitalism fucks up.

Yeah, look what it did for Venezuela

Venezuela under 'economic emergency' as court gives Maduro decree powers

Stupid response....Venezuela's main problems were both corruption AND a one-economic source....crude oil. When faced by a world glut of such fossil fuel, it doesn't take an economic genius to figure why Venezuela was bound to fail.

To even remotely compare us to Venezuela for the sake of some other idiots on this forum to think that you hit upon a "truism", is moronic.....but, alas, expected.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Is it fair? What else is there to socialism besides promising "free stuff"?

Socialism fixes what capitalism fucks up.

Yeah, look what it did for Venezuela

Venezuela under 'economic emergency' as court gives Maduro decree powers

Stupid response....Venezuela's main problems were both corruption AND a one-economic source....crude oil. When faced by a world glut of such fossil fuel, it doesn't take an economic genius to figure why Venezuela was bound to fail.

To even remotely compare us to Venezuela for the sake of some other idiots on this forum to think that you hit upon a "truism", is moronic.....but, alas, expected.

You don't know shit about the situation in Venezuela. When Chavez got elected he threw out the private companies that were running the nation's oil facilities and replaced them with political cronies who were far less qualified. The result was less oil production. Additionally, he ratcheted up social welfare spending on a massive scale. That combined with less oil production, even when oil prices were at record highs just a couple of years ago, spun the nation's economy into a downward spiral.

Read more and talk less and you'll have a better understanding of things you don't realize you don't actually know about. Your response was ignorant, but, alas, expected.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Is it fair? What else is there to socialism besides promising "free stuff"?

Socialism fixes what capitalism fucks up.

Zimbabwe is another shining socialist success of fixing the "wrongs" of capitalism. You ought to spend some time there, Comrade.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Is it fair? What else is there to socialism besides promising "free stuff"?

Socialism fixes what capitalism fucks up.

Yeah, look what it did for Venezuela

Venezuela under 'economic emergency' as court gives Maduro decree powers

NO, look what it's done for America.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Is it fair? What else is there to socialism besides promising "free stuff"?

Socialism fixes what capitalism fucks up.

Zimbabwe is another shining socialist success of fixing the "wrongs" of capitalism. You ought to spend some time there, Comrade.

Who fixed child labor, slavery, dangerous working conditions, pollution,etc.?

Did the capitalists who were perpetrating those atrocities fix themselves?

 

[bendog]

Many of us have learned on this forum that to expect right wingers to be "fair and balanced" (love that Fox slogan) is a fool's errand......Nonetheless, is it really fair to simply state that Sanders is offering "free stuff" without any plan as to how to finance the largess .....or is it just partisan bullshit?

Right wingers may strongly disagree with Sanders about a Medicare for all plan regarding health care insurance, but to be fair, he has stated that indeed a tax would be imposed on individuals and families, but the return on the savings (which would basically screw over PRIVATE health insurers) would be substantial. We may think of ourselves as "exceptional", but such HC deliveries have existed in other industrialized countries for decades and to say that we could not do the same is an admission that we may be far from exceptional.

Second, the "free stuff" regarding college tuition has also been addressed by Sanders....Primarily his source of income would be generated from taxing the gambling speculations of Wall Streeters....but more important is Sanders' reasoning that a college degree in the 21st century is the equivalent of a HS diploma and that we have long made high school attendance both mandatory and free.

You may not agree with Sanders....but at least stick to your proper reasons for the disagreement.

In Canada we have more of what your cons would consider "free stuff" I think. We call our policies generating this free stuff "socially responsible". Our debt to GDP ratio is around +/- 55%, yours is +/- 95%. As long as Americans insist on maintaining armed forces strong enough to control the rest of the World, continue policies like allowing your major corporations to stash trillions of dollars in offshore tax havens, let economic benefits gained by your country's increased productivity flow to the very top, etc. then of course to pay for a fairer society the U.S. debt would have to continue to rise. Those are choices that the Oligarch's propaganda machine seems to have convinced the majority of you to make in their favor.

We shudda let Stalin march right across the Bearing Sea and take you guy out! (-:

 

[alpine]

Is it fair? What else is there to socialism besides promising "free stuff"?

Socialism fixes what capitalism fucks up.

Yeah, look what it did for Venezuela

Venezuela under 'economic emergency' as court gives Maduro decree powers

Stupid response....Venezuela's main problems were both corruption AND a one-economic source....crude oil. When faced by a world glut of such fossil fuel, it doesn't take an economic genius to figure why Venezuela was bound to fail.

To even remotely compare us to Venezuela for the sake of some other idiots on this forum to think that you hit upon a "truism", is moronic.....but, alas, expected.

You don't know shit about the situation in Venezuela. When Chavez got elected he threw out the private companies that were running the nation's oil facilities and replaced them with political cronies who were far less qualified. The result was less oil production. Additionally, he ratcheted up social welfare spending on a massive scale. That combined with less oil production, even when oil prices were at record highs just a couple of years ago, spun the nation's economy into a downward spiral.

Read more and talk less and you'll have a better understanding of things you don't realize you don't actually know about. Your response was ignorant, but, alas, expected.

Well, poor people of Venezuela, who are the majority, are not doing any worse then how they were doing before Chavez, when fat rats were fattening more and more every day on their back.

Thats what happens when the greedy leaches screw the majority of the people, that majority will fuck you up in response...

Any smart capable history knowing capitalist would know this.
And the ones that are not aware of it, who are still trying to leach off of people, will learn pretty soon.....


The idea of a healthy economy is achieved by people respecting each other, and government regulating that respect.
Not fucking each other up...

 

[nat4900]

You don't know shit about the situation in Venezuela. When Chavez got elected he threw out the private companies that were running the nation's oil facilities and replaced them with political cronies who were far less qualified. The result was less oil production. Additionally, he ratcheted up social welfare spending on a massive scale. That combined with less oil production, even when oil prices were at record highs just a couple of years ago, spun the nation's economy into a downward spiral.

Is there a grown up in your basement who could explain to you what I wrote in response to your stupidity? Here. let me re-state it....

"Venezuela's main problems were both corruption AND a one-economic source....crude oil."

...and don't forget your equally stupid assertion that the U.S. economy is anything like Venezuela's....

 

[Searcher44]

In Canada we have more of what your cons would consider "free stuff" I think. We call our policies generating this free stuff "socially responsible". Our debt to GDP ratio is around +/- 55%, yours is +/- 95%. As long as Americans insist on maintaining armed forces strong enough to control the rest of the World, continue policies like allowing your major corporations to stash trillions of dollars in offshore tax havens, let economic benefits gained by your country's increased productivity flow to the very top, etc. then of course to pay for a fairer society the U.S. debt would have to continue to rise. Those are choices that the Oligarch's propaganda machine seems to have convinced the majority of you to make in their favor.

I've always wondered if you good Canadians actually laugh at the stupidity, ignorance and ultra-partisanship that American citizens seem to exemplify....Please bear in mind that we are NOT all this moronic.

In Canada we have more of what your cons would consider "free stuff" I think. We call our policies generating this free stuff "socially responsible". Our debt to GDP ratio is around +/- 55%, yours is +/- 95%. As long as Americans insist on maintaining armed forces strong enough to control the rest of the World, continue policies like allowing your major corporations to stash trillions of dollars in offshore tax havens, let economic benefits gained by your country's increased productivity flow to the very top, etc. then of course to pay for a fairer society the U.S. debt would have to continue to rise. Those are choices that the Oligarch's propaganda machine seems to have convinced the majority of you to make in their favor.

I've always wondered if you good Canadians actually laugh at the stupidity, ignorance and ultra-partisanship that American citizens seem to exemplify....Please bear in mind that we are NOT all this moronic.

While I get a chuckle out of incidents like RoboRubio and Bush's brush off by that more-or-less nobody Rotarian from smallville N.H. who shooed him off the stage like he was a candidate for club treasurer I otherwise remain a lifelong Americanophile. I'm optimistic that the arc of American history will continue in its centuries old progressive trajectory towards "that more perfect union". For the 2nd time today I'll dip into Shakespeare (I've been revisiting him lately). The crazies down there are like his
poor player who has almost come to the end of his strutting and fretting out his hour upon the stage and then will be heard no more: "it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."
My hope anyway. Meanwhile did you see that bit with Bush at the Rotary club? Nobody should miss it. The biggest laugh I've had for awhile;