CDZ Is the Climate changing?

[justoffal]

ReinyDays

1.) Are we retaining more heat because we're producing more carbon dioxide?

just tell us how hot 120 PPM of CO2 is.
Is there a known temperature?
Why does it vary in its temperature magic from one place to another?
hahahahahaahahahahahaha too funny

1.) Are we retaining more heat because we're producing more carbon dioxide?

just tell us how hot 120 PPM of CO2 is.
Is there a known temperature?
Why does it vary in its temperature magic from one place to another?
hahahahahaahahahahahaha too funny

Yeah that's my point exactly we simply do not know enough about the entire system that we are trying to broad-brush to make any specifically accurate statements about any one part of it that are anything more than just educated guesses. There are so many different inputs into the final equation I cannot see how we could possibly track them all down and investigate them especially when some of them are located 90 million miles away.

I have pointed out here before that the sun is an M type star which follows the same pattern as all of the Other M types we observe. It slowly but steadily gains temperature over the course of its lifetime until it becomes a helium burning red giant which generally vaporizes all the planets in its orbit. The heat variation that we are experiencing may very well be due to an increase of solar energy that we have just not yet been able to measure in any other way.

I have pointed out here before that the sun is an M type star which follows the same pattern as all of the Other M types we observe. It slowly but steadily gains temperature over the course of its lifetime until it becomes a helium burning red giant which generally vaporizes all the planets in its orbit. The heat variation that we are experiencing may very well be due to an increase of solar energy that we have just not yet been able to measure in any other way.

<nitpick>
Our Sun is classified as a type G2 main sequence star, or a sub-dwarf star ... and she'll need about 3 to 5 times the mass to experience helium flash ... she's expected to burn up all her hydrogen and leave behind a chunk of compressed helium, also known as a white dwarf star ... and then she'll cool down over the next several hundred billion years into a black dwarf ...

Type M stars are the very smallest of stars ... so cool as to only emit red light in the visible spectrum ... the bare minimum of mass to ignite ...
</nitpick>

The confusion here is that we can measure solar output to an extremely high level of precision ... eight to ten significant digits ... but we only measure temperature on Earth to three significant digits (in Kelvins) ... the changes in solar output are too small to be measured with the thermometers we have in wide distribution ...

In this context, we treat solar output as a constant 1,360 (± 5) W/m^2 ... millions of years at least before we would use 1,370 W/m^2 ... albedo changes more than the Sun does ... considerably more ...

Interesting...thanks that was good stuff ....

What is this? What will happen to the planets when the Sun becomes a red giant?

Still....Let's assume we're not heading the way of Helium fusion.....we could be taking enough undetectable heat to cause a chain of reactions here that is just not showing up on our instruments because we're not looking for it? A btu is a btu ....store enough of them and you will see something happen even if the temperature doesn't show it. In that sense the Albedo could also be affected if enough of the ice cover is dissolved to affect the general total of reflected light....all of this taking place on a scale wherein a few hundredths of a degree could translate into major heat retention that would cause the oceans to release enough co2 into the surrounding atmosphere to show a measurable increase in ppm. In such a case it would be the heat input leading the CO2 and be quite separate and apart from anything humans are doing.

JO

 

[Stryder50]

You "believe" this? ... climatology isn't a faith-based religion ... at it's core, it's based on hard physics ...

First you need to define "change" ... which in turn depends on how we measure climate ... with all other meteorological parameters exactly the same, does an increase in average temperature from 11.8ºC to 12.1ºC constitute "climate change"? ...

You've asked for a link, and not a citation, so here's what Wikipedia offers:

Köppen climate classification - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do you accept this scheme as our measure of climate? ...

This is the first of many key points/factors to consider.
The Earth has several climate "zones" and discussing them all blended into an average can be very misleading. Optimumal conditions for one zone may not be for another.

Also, overall the global climate average is in constant flux~change and could be said to move either towards an Ice Age (glacial) or away from an Ice Age (InterGlacial). Global Climate Average is not like your thermostat for your house where it can be set to a narrow and stable range and remain there indefinitely. Too many uncontrollable factors are in play and have been for 4.5 billion years.

Furthermore, best human strategy is how to adapt, not how to geo-engineer and likely make things worse than Nature would have done.

For a perspective of how live has survived times in the past much colder and/or warmer than we have seen last couple centuries;

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b5/18/aa/b518aa009f77df27dc2cee516f664c3e--science-room-science-classroom.jpg

 

[justoffal]

You "believe" this? ... climatology isn't a faith-based religion ... at it's core, it's based on hard physics ...

First you need to define "change" ... which in turn depends on how we measure climate ... with all other meteorological parameters exactly the same, does an increase in average temperature from 11.8ºC to 12.1ºC constitute "climate change"? ...

You've asked for a link, and not a citation, so here's what Wikipedia offers:

Köppen climate classification - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do you accept this scheme as our measure of climate? ...

I think it's very likely that heat is leading the CO2 concentrations and not the other way around. We are taking in heat that we are not detecting properly and it is showing up as an increase in co2 ppm. Call that a thermometer of sorts if you will.

JO

 

[Stryder50]

There are several charts/graphs one can use to better visualize the context of climate and it's changes over the eons. Here's a few;

This is one of many that show the questionable relation between average CO2 levels and average temperature ranges;

https://www.iceagenow.info/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/CO2-has-never-warmed-the-planet.png

And here's a few showing temperature ranges from Glacial/ice age to Interglacial/warm periods;

https://geology.utah.gov/wp-content/uploads/ice_ages2.gif

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-09aa3b2980a9525e3eea0b76e3167fd5

https://d32ogoqmya1dw8.cloudfront.net/images/eslabs/cryosphere/timeline_ice_ages_456.gif

~~~~~~~~~~~~
These and others to show found on this search page result;

chart of ice ages throughout time at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

 

[Stryder50]

About 15,000 years ago, the last Ice Age hit it's peak for coverage and cold. Over the next few thousand years much of the glacial coverage, a layer often as much as a mile thick, began to melt, sometimes rapidly and with great run off force carving huge river channels and canyons. By about 12,000 years ago the Earth was to the point of polar ice cap coverage about what we have known until recent times and sea levels had risen a few hundred feet higher (to present level) than what they were during the ice age when much of the fresh water was locked up as ice.

Opinions vary slightly on size and extent of glacial/ice age coverage, but these few illustrations should give some idea;

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/IceAgeEarth.jpg/1200px-IceAgeEarth.jpg

https://www.cbc.ca/greathumanodyssey/content/assets/images/minidocs/20k-1-image-3.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LTDarCYdGZc/TRziKFKi-_I/AAAAAAAAC20/YlPkiqXE11k/s1600/2.gif

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NAfuRukHxBE/UhXbUpNFolI/AAAAAAAACVU/kNCGcgcrnwM/s1600/17-ice-age.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/08/26/18/32420252-8666795-The_average_global_temperature_during_the_last_Ice_Age_20_000_ye-a-65_1598463288472.jpg

 

[justoffal]

About 15,000 years ago, the last Ice Age hit it's peak for coverage and cold. Over the next few thousand years much of the glacial coverage, a layer often as much as a mile thick, began to melt, sometimes rapidly and with great run off force carving huge river channels and canyons. By about 12,000 years ago the Earth was to the point of polar ice cap coverage about what we have known until recent times and sea levels had risen a few hundred feet higher (to present level) than what they were during the ice age when much of the fresh water was locked up as ice.

Opinions vary slightly on size and extent of glacial/ice age coverage, but these few illustrations should give some idea;

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/IceAgeEarth.jpg/1200px-IceAgeEarth.jpg

https://www.cbc.ca/greathumanodyssey/content/assets/images/minidocs/20k-1-image-3.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LTDarCYdGZc/TRziKFKi-_I/AAAAAAAAC20/YlPkiqXE11k/s1600/2.gif

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NAfuRukHxBE/UhXbUpNFolI/AAAAAAAACVU/kNCGcgcrnwM/s1600/17-ice-age.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/08/26/18/32420252-8666795-The_average_global_temperature_during_the_last_Ice_Age_20_000_ye-a-65_1598463288472.jpg

Scientific Pragmatist: Wow...those charts tell us a different story!
AGW cultist: RACIST! DOUBTER! DENIER! I HOPE YOUR KIDS BURN TO DEATH FROM CLIMATE CHANGE!

 

[Stryder50]

And few more, with different perspectives;

https://alqurumresort.com/img/468378.jpg

https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/styles/wide_full_width_image_no_crop/public/sites/default/files/northern-hemisphere-ice-coverage-comparison.jpg?itok=wy24FTtH

https://www.cdm.org/mammothdiscovery/img/icemaps.gif

What the next one could look like;

https://i.insider.com/536bdf0feab8ea7d3533ed14

Note that some timelines show Earth going from fairly comfortable and warm "climate" into an Ice Age/Glaciation as quick as within a century (or less) of time.

Something to think about before trying to fix something that might not be broken.

 

[Stryder50]

Here's one more some might find fascinating, coastlines of Europe during the last ice age;

https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/2ade7a44-ca60-4e6e-87cd-6acb087657c1/dbcnovk-ecc5b826-bf95-4f51-9e27-f4bb08d9ce41.jpg/v1/fill/w_800,h_479,q_75,strp/coastlines_of_the_ice_age___europe_by_atlas_v7x-dbcnovk.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJpc3MiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwic3ViIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsImF1ZCI6WyJ1cm46c2VydmljZTppbWFnZS5vcGVyYXRpb25zIl0sIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiIvZi8yYWRlN2E0NC1jYTYwLTRlNmUtODdjZC02YWNiMDg3NjU3YzEvZGJjbm92ay1lY2M1YjgyNi1iZjk1LTRmNTEtOWUyNy1mNGJiMDhkOWNlNDEuanBnIiwid2lkdGgiOiI8PTgwMCIsImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9NDc5In1dXX0.j1mgO0bvPMIMUTeX79ZBdePHYVntniQF6deTSEULcjA

 

[Stryder50]

From my link :
Researchers thought this ancient, dinosaur-dominated era boasted CO2 levels about 2.5 times greater than our levels today. This simulation suggests levels were as much as four times the CO2 we currently have.

Then you have this jabbering shaved baboon John Kerry who we are supposed to believe is an Ivy League intellectual actually asserting that we need to get all CO2 OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE.

Could this goofy looking fuckstick possibly be that fuckin stupid? This is Hank Johnson capsized islands stupid. This is AOC never saw a garbage disposal stupid. How can you have have graduated 5th grade and not been educated well enough to know that in order for plants to grow, they need CO2?

So either John Kerry knows this MMGW thing is an utter bullshit hoax and is pandering to the dumbest fucks of all fucks in our society, or he is a window licking retard.

I mean this is a stunning level of pure stupidity. It's literally deadly. Dangerous to all life on earth.


.

Exactly!
99+% of life on this planet, the Flora~"green plants" need CO2 the way we need O2. They made the O2 we use and recycle some of the CO2 into new O2. Without them we are dead.

Kerry either flunked science in school, is near brain dead stupid, or a sock puppet. (maybe all three).

 

[Stryder50]

You "believe" this? ... climatology isn't a faith-based religion ... at it's core, it's based on hard physics ...

First you need to define "change" ... which in turn depends on how we measure climate ... with all other meteorological parameters exactly the same, does an increase in average temperature from 11.8ºC to 12.1ºC constitute "climate change"? ...

You've asked for a link, and not a citation, so here's what Wikipedia offers:

Köppen climate classification - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do you accept this scheme as our measure of climate? ...

How is it based on "hard physics" when the last experiment anyone can point to was done in 1850?

There're half dozen experiments that are runs in labs that demonstrate the greenhouse effect. There is also plenty of other evidence of Greenhouse Effect in addition to lab experiments which include studies of greenhouse effect in the atmosphere of the planet Venus, Ice core samples, studies of tree rings, ocean sediments, coral reefs, and layers of sedimentary rocks.

Carbon Dioxide - CO2 = 96.5 % of the atmosphere content on Venus while on Earth CO2 = @0.04%.

Huge difference in scale, not to mention other factors may have caused the high temps on Venus. (Please see post #98 of this thread)

 

[Stryder50]

One other factor that may not be getting enough credit is Earth Plate Tectonic process. Most of the expansion zones where magma/lava/heat from the Earth's core rise to the surface are under the oceans and could be the major contributors to ocean temperatures. Some illustrations/maps;

https://res.cloudinary.com/dk-find-out/image/upload/q_80,w_1920,f_auto/AW_DD125_WorldPlates_tvpdp0.jpg

http://www.kja-artists.com/assets/world-tectonic-plates-infogrpahic-map.fa.jpg

https://static.vecteezy.com/system/resources/previews/000/096/829/original/tectonic-plates-map-vector.jpg

https://www.worldbuildingschool.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Earth-Tectonic-Plates.png

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BxljyV06U2Y/TcFRtTvJjoI/AAAAAAAAALE/0soH2qBqzk8/s1600/tectonic%2Bplate%2Bboundaries.jpg

See more here;

maps of earth plate tectonics at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

 

[donttread]

I for one believe that it is. I've believed this for a long time, but I found that a documentary called "An Inconvenient Truth", which features for Vice President Al Gore prominently, was very persuasive. I know there are those who believe that the Climate isn't changing as well, including some people like James Corbett, who I respect immensely for his work on other subjects, but we simply don't agree when it comes to climate. Recently, a poster in another thread of mine expressed his belief that the climate isn't changing so I thought it might be good to create this thread and see where it goes. I ask that people support any assertions that haven't already been made by another poster with at least one link.

Of course climate is changing and it probably always is. The last ice age was what: Just ten thousand years ago? But that leaves me with two questions,
1) Is the current change natural or man made. The seemingly obvious anser is a bit of both.
2) How will climate change harm us? Because I can debunk some common myths. For example plants thrive in higher concentrations of CO2 . While we know that that climate change has caused oceons to become desserts. The rule of thumb is that a warmer world is a wetter world which chanenges the "All crops will die in droughts." meme. In short how will climate change actually harm us? How has it?

 

[jc456]

Of course the climate is changing it never does anything but.

name an area where climate has changed.

Supernova 2015bh in galaxy NGC 2207 ... just ten years ago, this was a great neighborhood to raise a family of fermions ... today it's nothing but relativistic plasma ...

I'm still waiting for the water skiers in the Arctic.

 

[justoffal]

Of course the climate is changing it never does anything but.

name an area where climate has changed.

Supernova 2015bh in galaxy NGC 2207 ... just ten years ago, this was a great neighborhood to raise a family of fermions ... today it's nothing but relativistic plasma ...

I'm still waiting for the water skiers in the Arctic.

Lot of Great whites down there.....prolly not a good idea

 

[jc456]

From my link :
Researchers thought this ancient, dinosaur-dominated era boasted CO2 levels about 2.5 times greater than our levels today. This simulation suggests levels were as much as four times the CO2 we currently have.

Then you have this jabbering shaved baboon John Kerry who we are supposed to believe is an Ivy League intellectual actually asserting that we need to get all CO2 OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE.

Could this goofy looking fuckstick possibly be that fuckin stupid? This is Hank Johnson capsized islands stupid. This is AOC never saw a garbage disposal stupid. How can you have have graduated 5th grade and not been educated well enough to know that in order for plants to grow, they need CO2?

So either John Kerry knows this MMGW thing is an utter bullshit hoax and is pandering to the dumbest fucks of all fucks in our society, or he is a window licking retard.

I mean this is a stunning level of pure stupidity. It's literally deadly. Dangerous to all life on earth.


.

he does want us all to die.

 

[jc456]

Of course the climate is changing it never does anything but.

name an area where climate has changed.

Supernova 2015bh in galaxy NGC 2207 ... just ten years ago, this was a great neighborhood to raise a family of fermions ... today it's nothing but relativistic plasma ...

I'm still waiting for the water skiers in the Arctic.

Lot of Great whites down there.....prolly not a good idea

just need a bigger boat. But I was referring the Arctic, not Antarctic.

 

[sartre play]

IF We had not made Every thing political there would be a much better chance of us finding answers. Now that everything is political if one party supports Anything THE OTHER SIDE MUST BE AGAINEST IT.

 

[HenryBHough]

If climate ever stops changing the planet will stagnate. No species will die off - no new ones will thrive. In time all life will overpopulate and perish. Can anyone see a downside to that?

 

[Pete7469]

he does want us all to die.

All the elitist leftwing pieces of shit believe the majority of humanity needs to die.

Georgia Guidestones - New Georgia Encyclopedia

From 1980 until its destruction in 2022, one of the most intriguing and controversial granite monuments ever erected stood in Elbert County, near the South Carolina border. The Georgia Guidestones dominated the highest elevation in the county, which is located in the northeastern Piedmont...

www.georgiaencyclopedia.org

 

[ChemEngineer]

Critical mass your ass.
Every human alive on the planet today could theoretically be placed into a cube one mile on side.
Proof:
5,280 feet cubed is 127 billion cubic feet.
This provides about 18 cubic feet for every person on the planet.
If all the environmentalist wackos would practice what they preach, that would be swell. Wouldn't change anything but......

That is the most ignorant thing that I have read on this board. You fail to take into account oceans, deserts and arctic areas that are not conducive to human habitation or cultivation. Your simplistic "theory" is nonsense.

1. The geography of earth is immaterial to the total volume of all humans alive today.
If you do not understand that, ask someone to explain it to you.
2. I made no mention of habitation or cultivation. Those are YOUR words. YOU put YOUR words in my mouth and then condemn me for your misrepresentations. Typical of a Leftist.

One of my websites describes Leftists such as you:

Democrat Insanity - Trump Derangement Syndrome

DemocratInsanity.blogspot.com

For one thing, if you knew anything about me, you would know I am NO FUCKING LEFTIST. There hasn't been a president that has been conservative enough for me in my lifetime. Second, Just because you can cram 50 human beings into an oil drum doesn't mean it will support their life. Geeez, what a moron thing to say. I didn't put any words in your mouth. Fuck off you self agrandizing piece of shit.

"50 human beings" is your phrase, not mine.
"into an oil drum" is your fabrication. I pointed out the total volume of all humans alive today, NOT "50 human beings" and NOT "an oil drum."

Yes indeed you continue to spew moron things, as Leftists do. Oh but you're not one of them. You only sound and act like one. Listen up, boy. I crap bigger than you.
You're so ignorant you can't even spell self-aggrandizing.

Your foul mouth and hatefulness should put you on many more Ignore Lists besides mine.

ciao brutto