CDZ Is the Climate changing?

phoenyx

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I for one believe that it is. I've believed this for a long time, but I found that a documentary called "An Inconvenient Truth", which features for Vice President Al Gore prominently, was very persuasive. I know there are those who believe that the Climate isn't changing as well, including some people like James Corbett, who I respect immensely for his work on other subjects, but we simply don't agree when it comes to climate. Recently, a poster in another thread of mine expressed his belief that the climate isn't changing so I thought it might be good to create this thread and see where it goes. I ask that people support any assertions that haven't already been made by another poster with at least one link.
 

ReinyDays

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You "believe" this? ... climatology isn't a faith-based religion ... at it's core, it's based on hard physics ...

First you need to define "change" ... which in turn depends on how we measure climate ... with all other meteorological parameters exactly the same, does an increase in average temperature from 11.8ºC to 12.1ºC constitute "climate change"? ...

You've asked for a link, and not a citation, so here's what Wikipedia offers:

Do you accept this scheme as our measure of climate? ...
 
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phoenyx

phoenyx

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You "believe" this?

I do.

... climatology isn't a faith-based religion ... at it's core, it's based on hard physics ...

I believe that too. Others don't, which is why not everyone agrees about climate change.

First you need to define "change" ... which in turn depends on how we measure climate ... with all other meteorological parameters exactly the same, does an increase in average temperature from 11.8ºC to 12.1ºC constitute "climate change"? ...

I believe it does.

You've asked for a link, and not a citation, so here's what Wikipedia offers:

Do you accept this scheme as our measure of climate? ...

Yes.
 
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phoenyx

phoenyx

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If someone says the climate isnt changing, they are idiots.
The climate has been changing for billions of years.

Please TN, this is the Clean Debate Zone, we're supposed to avoid insults here. In any case, I agree that the climate has been changing since time began. The topic I'd like to address in this thread is the rate of change these days and what's causing it.
 

TNHarley

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If someone says the climate isnt changing, they are idiots.
The climate has been changing for billions of years.

Please TN, this is the Clean Debate Zone, we're supposed to avoid insults here. In any case, I agree that the climate has been changing since time began. The topic I'd like to address in this thread is the rate of change these days and what's causing it.
Then you should make an OP that matches your intent.
The rate of change is a great argument. The rate we are going through now hasnt happened in a long time. To debate what causes it, usually ends up in disingenuous outbursts that arent worth reading.
People want to scream about science and then ignore it. Its fascinating to watch.
 

Pete7469

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The climate has been changing since the dawn of time. The earth has been a giant snowball for hundreds of thousands of years and experienced hot periods that scientists are still studying.

To claim that human beings are making any difference is utterly ridiculous, especially when making the claim that CO2 is the cause. If you believe that you should stop exhaling.

At the very least, if you believe that, and make stupid agitprop like "An Inconvenient Truth" you should not be flying around the world alone on private jets, and wasting more energy than 1000'sof ordinary people do.

Now lets just do some simple math here while we're at it....

According to everything I've read on the subject, and I was once a believer in the Global Warming Hoax when I was a delusional teenage dipshit, The "Greenhouse Gas" known as CO2 has an impact of 3% when properly quantified. Just 3%. Compared to WATER VAPOR at 95% that sounds pretty insignificant. However, when you further break it down and understand that human beings, THAT'S ALL OF HUMANITY IN ALL OUR INDUSTRY, COMMERCE, TRAVEL ENDEAVORS AND FUCKIN FARTS accounts for less than 5% of all atmospheric CO2 produced it is utterly ridiculous to even consider that we make any difference in changing the climate.

It would be far more effective for us to be trying to clean up the massive wads of plastic shit in our 2 major oceans. The reason leftists promote the MMGW hoax however, is to destroy US industry and commerce.

That's the bottom line. It's a steaming heap of complete BULLSHIT.

.
 

expat_panama

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...The topic I'd like to address in this thread is the rate of change these days and what's causing it.
Sounds great. What is the rate of whatever is changing, what are the measurements, & please show that it's never happened before. Then show what's causing the current unusual change now.

Until this is presented here we may want to simply say "it's been said but not shown here..."
 

ReinyDays

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... does an increase in average temperature from 11.8ºC to 12.1ºC constitute "climate change"? ...
I believe it does.

A 0.3ºC temperature will NOT change the Köppen classification ...

Do you accept this scheme as our measure of climate? ...
Yes.

Apparently you don't accept this ... as above you use the most trivial difference to define "change" ... Iowa's "humid continental" climate has very little to do with temperature ... and everything to do with humidity and distance from the Gulf of Mexico ... neither of which have changed since the Rocky Mountains rose up a hundred million years ago ...

It won't be raining in California during summer until she crashes into Japan and the entire Pacific Ocean is subducted under the North American plate ... there's good reason to believe California hasn't has summer rains since before the assembly of Pangaea ... since the Cambrian ... same climate for the past half billion years ...
 

jc456

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If someone says the climate isnt changing, they are idiots.
The climate has been changing for billions of years.
Actually, in my lifetime, the climate hasn't changed. Again, from the other thread I was in, my climate in Chicago is the same today as it was 100 years ago. So factually, you're incorrect. Now, have climates changed, sure, the physical land masses have moved creating some of those land changes, and the fact that the planet was in an ice age is another. but, in one's lifetime today, climate hasn't changed.
 

jc456

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Apparently you don't accept this ... as above you use the most trivial difference to define "change" ... Iowa's "humid continental" climate has very little to do with temperature ... and everything to do with humidity and distance from the Gulf of Mexico ... neither of which have changed since the Rocky Mountains rose up a hundred million years ago ...
yeppers
 

TNHarley

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The climate has been changing since the dawn of time.

This depends on where ... certainly the regions around the two poles have been deserts since the formation of the Earth ... and that will never change ... physics ...
If that is true, how come the south pole had vegetation during the eocene?
 

Orangecat

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The climate is changing. There is nothing mankind can do to help or hinder such changes. We are too small of a part of the entire process to make any discernible difference. Politically speaking, it's a great canard for the thus-far failed marxists of the world to redistribute wealth while becoming fabulously wealthy themselves.
 

ReinyDays

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The climate has been changing since the dawn of time.

This depends on where ... certainly the regions around the two poles have been deserts since the formation of the Earth ... and that will never change ... physics ...
If that is true, how come the south pole had vegetation during the eocene?

Oceanic life doesn't require rainfall to survive ... or do you mean fossils found on Antarctica that formed when Antarctica was closer to 45ºS latitude? ... [giggle] ...
 

22lcidw

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There are measurements from ice samples that prove that heat has come before CO2 in past climate changes. The Progs and globalists are pushing the opposite as to pay off their benefactors and get a massive global tax for us to get used to the said global government.
 
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phoenyx

phoenyx

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If someone says the climate isnt changing, they are idiots.
The climate has been changing for billions of years.

Please TN, this is the Clean Debate Zone, we're supposed to avoid insults here. In any case, I agree that the climate has been changing since time began. The topic I'd like to address in this thread is the rate of change these days and what's causing it.
Then you should make an OP that matches your intent.

Most people call this discussion Climate Change. I see no reason why I should confuse them by getting highly technical. I think it makes more sense to get into specifics once people are in the thread itself.

The rate of change is a great argument. The rate we are going through now hasnt happened in a long time. To debate what causes it, usually ends up in disingenuous outbursts that arent worth reading.
People want to scream about science and then ignore it. Its fascinating to watch.

I am attempting to avoid that and instead just focus on the scientific evidence.
 

TNHarley

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The climate has been changing since the dawn of time.

This depends on where ... certainly the regions around the two poles have been deserts since the formation of the Earth ... and that will never change ... physics ...
If that is true, how come the south pole had vegetation during the eocene?

Oceanic life doesn't require rainfall to survive ... or do you mean fossils found on Antarctica that formed when Antarctica was closer to 45ºS latitude? ... [giggle] ...
I am referring to the rain forest they discovered that was just a few hundred kilometers away from south pole.
A rainforest once grew near the South Pole | Science News for Students
[giggle]
 

TNHarley

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If someone says the climate isnt changing, they are idiots.
The climate has been changing for billions of years.

Please TN, this is the Clean Debate Zone, we're supposed to avoid insults here. In any case, I agree that the climate has been changing since time began. The topic I'd like to address in this thread is the rate of change these days and what's causing it.
Then you should make an OP that matches your intent.

Most people call this discussion Climate Change. I see no reason why I should confuse them by getting highly technical. I think it makes more sense to get into specifics once people are in the thread itself.

The rate of change is a great argument. The rate we are going through now hasnt happened in a long time. To debate what causes it, usually ends up in disingenuous outbursts that arent worth reading.
People want to scream about science and then ignore it. Its fascinating to watch.

I am attempting to avoid that and instead just focus on the scientific evidence.
You mean, lack thereof?
 

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