Is secession really legally impossible?

[JWBooth]

That's explicitly covered in the Constitution. See the part about a split splitting in two.

You'll have to elaborate on that. Make your own argument, don't expect me to make it for you.

So you've never read the Constitution.

That explains a few things.


The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Funny... a poster with a Lenin avatar and someone named after Lincoln's assassin explaining the Constitution to someone named after a state...

 

[NYcarbineer]

That's explicitly covered in the Constitution. See the part about a split splitting in two.

You'll have to elaborate on that. Make your own argument, don't expect me to make it for you.

So you've never read the Constitution.

That explains a few things.


The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

If you can't back up your assertions, just say so.

What, again, does the Constitution say about a county seceding from a state and becoming a sovereign nation?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Did anyone tell me how a seceding state can legally void the Constitutional obligation of its residents to pay federal income tax? Did I miss that?

So, without objection, the answer is 'it can't'.

 

[JWBooth]

Did anyone tell me how a seceding state can legally void the Constitutional obligation of its residents to pay federal income tax? Did I miss that?

So, without objection, the answer is 'it can't'.

?

Arguing with your self carby?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Did anyone tell me how a seceding state can legally void the Constitutional obligation of its residents to pay federal income tax? Did I miss that?

So, without objection, the answer is 'it can't'.

?

Arguing with your self carby?

No, I'm just underlining the FACT that no one can refute the point.

 

[xotoxi]

And then we should annex Brazil and call it a day.

You're just itchin' to get the 2016 Summer Olympics in the United States...no matter what it takes.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

So, without objection, the answer is 'it can't'.

?

Arguing with your self carby?

No, I'm just underlining the FACT that no one can refute the point.

Don't let reality mess that up for you.
​

 

[Contumacious]

the States as we know them couldn't survive independently for very long. A large chunk of them take in more from tax revenue than they pay to the Feds, and those that pay more in Federal Taxes than they get back have economies that are closely tied to the other 50 states, and even foreign powers. That isn't even touching the military aspects of how long an independent state would last.

Bullshit. The Former Soviet Republics are doing fine.

The post-Soviet states, also commonly known as the Former Soviet Union (FSU) [1][2][3] or former Soviet republics, are the 15 independent nations that split off from the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in its breakup in December 1991.

Most of the formerly Soviet states began the transition to a market economy in 1990-1991 and made efforts to rebuild and restructure their economic systems, with varying results. The process triggered a severe transition decline, with Gross Domestic Product (GDP) dropping by more than 40% between 1990 and 1995.[7] This decline in GDP was much more intense than the 27% decline that the United States suffered in the wake of the Great Depression between 1930 and 1934.[8] The reconfiguration of public finance in compliance with the principles of market economy resulted in dramatically reduced spending on health, education and other social programs, leading to a sharp increase in poverty.[9]

The initial transition decline was eventually arrested by the cumulative effect of market reforms, and after 1995 the economy in the post-Soviet states began to recover, with GDP switching from negative to positive growth rates. By 2007, 10 of the 15 post-Soviet states had reached GDP greater than what they had in 1991.[10]

.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

the States as we know them couldn't survive independently for very long. A large chunk of them take in more from tax revenue than they pay to the Feds, and those that pay more in Federal Taxes than they get back have economies that are closely tied to the other 50 states, and even foreign powers. That isn't even touching the military aspects of how long an independent state would last.

Bullshit. The Former Soviet Republics are doing fine.

The post-Soviet states, also commonly known as the Former Soviet Union (FSU) [1][2][3] or former Soviet republics, are the 15 independent nations that split off from the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in its breakup in December 1991.

Most of the formerly Soviet states began the transition to a market economy in 1990-1991 and made efforts to rebuild and restructure their economic systems, with varying results. The process triggered a severe transition decline, with Gross Domestic Product (GDP) dropping by more than 40% between 1990 and 1995.[7] This decline in GDP was much more intense than the 27% decline that the United States suffered in the wake of the Great Depression between 1930 and 1934.[8] The reconfiguration of public finance in compliance with the principles of market economy resulted in dramatically reduced spending on health, education and other social programs, leading to a sharp increase in poverty.[9]

The initial transition decline was eventually arrested by the cumulative effect of market reforms, and after 1995 the economy in the post-Soviet states began to recover, with GDP switching from negative to positive growth rates. By 2007, 10 of the 15 post-Soviet states had reached GDP greater than what they had in 1991.[10]

.

If you want to try it in my opinion you are welcome to do so.

Just assume your fare share of the debt on the way out and surrender or purchase any equipment bought with Federal Tax dollars.

 

[ihopehefails]

Did anyone tell me how a seceding state can legally void the Constitutional obligation of its residents to pay federal income tax? Did I miss that?

So, without objection, the answer is 'it can't'.

The only thing that limits a state in what it can do are things prohibited to it under the constitution and if that wasn't the case why even have so many stats shall not... it it? Since there are no states shall not depart then the states can do it but since so many people have so many counter arguments to the possibility then we can just add an amendment officially dissolving the union. That should end any legal debate about the issue.

 

[NYcarbineer]

?

Arguing with your self carby?

No, I'm just underlining the FACT that no one can refute the point.

Don't let reality mess that up for you.
​

Did you post an argument as to how a state could legally exempt its residents from paying federal income tax? Could you cite that post, then we'll go from there. If you didn't, then, as I said, the point remains unrefuted.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

No, I'm just underlining the FACT that no one can refute the point.

Don't let reality mess that up for you.
​

Did you post an argument as to how a state could legally exempt its residents from paying federal income tax? Could you cite that post, then we'll go from there. If you didn't, then, as I said, the point remains unrefuted.

To quote Contumacious:

the States as we know them couldn't survive independently for very long. A large chunk of them take in more from tax revenue than they pay to the Feds, and those that pay more in Federal Taxes than they get back have economies that are closely tied to the other 50 states, and even foreign powers. That isn't even touching the military aspects of how long an independent state would last.

Bullshit. The Former Soviet Republics are doing fine.

The post-Soviet states, also commonly known as the Former Soviet Union (FSU) [1][2][3] or former Soviet republics, are the 15 independent nations that split off from the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in its breakup in December 1991.

Most of the formerly Soviet states began the transition to a market economy in 1990-1991 and made efforts to rebuild and restructure their economic systems, with varying results. The process triggered a severe transition decline, with Gross Domestic Product (GDP) dropping by more than 40% between 1990 and 1995.[7] This decline in GDP was much more intense than the 27% decline that the United States suffered in the wake of the Great Depression between 1930 and 1934.[8] The reconfiguration of public finance in compliance with the principles of market economy resulted in dramatically reduced spending on health, education and other social programs, leading to a sharp increase in poverty.[9]

The initial transition decline was eventually arrested by the cumulative effect of market reforms, and after 1995 the economy in the post-Soviet states began to recover, with GDP switching from negative to positive growth rates. By 2007, 10 of the 15 post-Soviet states had reached GDP greater than what they had in 1991.[10]

.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Did anyone tell me how a seceding state can legally void the Constitutional obligation of its residents to pay federal income tax? Did I miss that?

So, without objection, the answer is 'it can't'.

The only thing that limits a state in what it can do are things prohibited to it under the constitution and if that wasn't the case why even have so many stats shall not... it it? Since there are no states shall not depart then the states can do it but since so many people have so many counter arguments to the possibility then we can just add an amendment officially dissolving the union. That should end any legal debate about the issue.

Well, if your argument is that states can legally secede via the legal process of amending the constitution to provide them the right and means and process to secede then yes you're right. But then again in those terms you could say that bringing back slavery is legally possible.

I thought your question to mean was secession legally possible as the Constitution/law currently stands.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I thought your question to mean was secession legally possible as the Constitution/law currently stands.

The answer to that question is yes.

 

[ihopehefails]

So, without objection, the answer is 'it can't'.

The only thing that limits a state in what it can do are things prohibited to it under the constitution and if that wasn't the case why even have so many stats shall not... it it? Since there are no states shall not depart then the states can do it but since so many people have so many counter arguments to the possibility then we can just add an amendment officially dissolving the union. That should end any legal debate about the issue.

Well, if your argument is that states can legally secede via the legal process of amending the constitution to provide them the right and means and process to secede then yes you're right. But then again in those terms you could say that bringing back slavery is legally possible.

I thought your question to mean was secession legally possible as the Constitution/law currently stands.

You can also say amending the constitution can end any such law.

 

[EriktheRed]

I know all the legal arguments have gone back and forth and lets say the anti-secessionist are correct does that still make secession impossible to do under the constitution? All one would have to do is pass a constitutional amendment declaring that XYZ states are no longer a part of the union.

This can provide a solution to our national debt because all 50 states can seceede from Washington DC and allow it to be its own city-state like singapore. The fifty states can now be debt free as Washington, being a part of the old USA, is still obligated to those debts.

Think about that for a moment...

Sure sucks to be you, huh?

 

[ihopehefails]

I know all the legal arguments have gone back and forth and lets say the anti-secessionist are correct does that still make secession impossible to do under the constitution? All one would have to do is pass a constitutional amendment declaring that XYZ states are no longer a part of the union.

This can provide a solution to our national debt because all 50 states can seceede from Washington DC and allow it to be its own city-state like singapore. The fifty states can now be debt free as Washington, being a part of the old USA, is still obligated to those debts.

Think about that for a moment...

Sure sucks to be you, huh?

Usually people use insults after they lost a debate but you just start right into it.