Is Public School Education Under-funded?

[OnePercenter]

Actually i went to high school in 1957 but it was a poor district so we had real old textbooks. I stole the chem book because I valued it so much. And no there were earlier books published. Funny how you ignore the fact that the text books were better back then. So you agree that the textbooks today are terrible.

Why then do you support the further use of shit textbooks?

The LAUSD was poor in 1957? Really?

I wouldn't know 'back then,' I was born in 1957.

I don't have an opinion of textbooks.

 

[westwall]

Actually i went to high school in 1957 but it was a poor district so we had real old textbooks. I stole the chem book because I valued it so much. And no there were earlier books published. Funny how you ignore the fact that the text books were better back then. So you agree that the textbooks today are terrible.

Why then do you support the further use of shit textbooks?

The LAUSD was poor in 1957? Really?

I wouldn't know 'back then,' I was born in 1957.

I don't have an opinion of textbooks.

It was in my area. I was born and raised in South Central boy. Look it up. No opinion on textbooks? How the heck is that possible, you have stupid opinions on everything.

 

[Unkotare]

I get paid 27k a year and I work 360. I wish I got a teachers salary. The point is you don't even work the entire year.

Go to school and get a degree. Become a teacher. You can make $40,000 a year to start for only 200 days of work.

>>>>

I owe 32k in student loans. I can't go on to a 4 year school until I learn two levels of a foreign language. And I have to pay for it myself. So I'm stuck. The fact that I don't need a foreign language to work in America is besides the point. Fucking Liberal colleges.

So learn a foreign language, lazy.

 

[mgh80]

I simply look at the amount of kids going to private school in my area who go on to college. That number is over 95% and more to the point they go right into a 4 year college and usually with loads of scholarships. Further, the graduation rate is above 90% as well. They perform an order of magnitude better than the public schools in all areas save athletics. For less money spent per student.

Key, is they do it for less money per student.
Teachers are over payed.
They get 3 months vacation. Retire early. It's time they competed for their jobs like everyone else does.

No...teachers do not get 3 months vacation.

Do too.

I'm contracted for 199 work days...180 instructional 19 planning.

I do NOT get paid for summers.

I used to attend roughly 4 weeks of mandatory training over the summer (that I paid for out of my paychecks later in the year).

Teachers in my district start out at $38K/year.

We have to act as teachers, role-models, are held to a higher standard than the rest of the general public, and sometimes even have to play parent to the students (a scary amount of parents ask ME what THEY should do with their problem children)...unfortunately I can't say "how about you be a parent instead of a friend and teach your kid how to spoon-feed themselves).

I get paid 27k a year and I work 360. I wish I got a teachers salary. The point is you don't even work the entire year.

Why don't you become a teacher then? Who's stopping you?

It's your choice that you're stuck at a job where you only make 27K for 365 days.

If you want to make more than 27K..what's stopping you?

Don't bitch about other's people's jobs and focus on your own. That might be what got you into your situation in the first place.

 

[mgh80]

I simply look at the amount of kids going to private school in my area who go on to college. That number is over 95% and more to the point they go right into a 4 year college and usually with loads of scholarships. Further, the graduation rate is above 90% as well. They perform an order of magnitude better than the public schools in all areas save athletics. For less money spent per student.

Key, is they do it for less money per student.
Teachers are over payed.
They get 3 months vacation. Retire early. It's time they competed for their jobs like everyone else does.

No...teachers do not get 3 months vacation.

Do too.

Nope, they do not....180 school days by law with students, add in at least 5 prep days....then throw in all the days of professional growth classes. Around here, school doesn't end til mid June and starts up mid Aug. Now...even if you don't count prep days, etc. how does that add up to 3 months vacation?

180 days is 6 months so you are saying they get 6 months of vacation.

Ok I'll break this down for you so even you can understand. I'll use this school year as a reference:

180 CLASSROOM days...199 total work days (those 19 days tend to include more work than the other 180 for the record).

199 total days /5 days in a work week = 40 weeks (rounded up)

*Weekends do NOT count as vacation...that's not just for teachers, that's for most people.*

52 weeks in a year-40 work weeks =12 leftover weeks

12 weeks = 3 months

3 months =/= 6 months

I understand that we get about an extra month throughout the year most positions don't (thanksgiving break, spring break, winter break), which is why I chose not to add any of my mandatory training work days (often on saturdays, during the summers, or after school hours during the week) because it comes out to about a wash.

 

[mgh80]

I get paid 27k a year and I work 360. I wish I got a teachers salary. The point is you don't even work the entire year.

Go to school and get a degree. Become a teacher. You can make $40,000 a year to start for only 200 days of work.

>>>>

I owe 32k in student loans. I can't go on to a 4 year school until I learn two levels of a foreign language. And I have to pay for it myself. So I'm stuck. The fact that I don't need a foreign language to work in America is besides the point. Fucking Liberal colleges.

All I see is excuses. I busted my ass while in college and came out with $0 debt.

You didn't have to pay for 2 years of a foreign language-virtually every high school in America offers it for free. You just chose not to take it.

Stop blaming your situation on other people, and focus on what you need to do...until you do that you'll never achieve your goals.

The liberal colleges aren't holding you back-you're holding yourself back with excuses.

 

[bodecea]

Key, is they do it for less money per student.
Teachers are over payed.
They get 3 months vacation. Retire early. It's time they competed for their jobs like everyone else does.

No...teachers do not get 3 months vacation.

Do too.

Nope, they do not....180 school days by law with students, add in at least 5 prep days....then throw in all the days of professional growth classes. Around here, school doesn't end til mid June and starts up mid Aug. Now...even if you don't count prep days, etc. how does that add up to 3 months vacation?

180 days is 6 months so you are saying they get 6 months of vacation.

Ok I'll break this down for you so even you can understand. I'll use this school year as a reference:

180 CLASSROOM days...199 total work days (those 19 days tend to include more work than the other 180 for the record).

199 total days /5 days in a work week = 40 weeks (rounded up)

*Weekends do NOT count as vacation...that's not just for teachers, that's for most people.*

52 weeks in a year-40 work weeks =12 leftover weeks

12 weeks = 3 months

3 months =/= 6 months

I understand that we get about an extra month throughout the year most positions don't (thanksgiving break, spring break, winter break), which is why I chose not to add any of my mandatory training work days (often on saturdays, during the summers, or after school hours during the week) because it comes out to about a wash.

Gee then...sounds like a sweet deal. Why aren't more people teachers then? And why are they having trouble retaining teachers? In fact, why is there a current teacher shortage in many states?

 

[Slyhunter]

I get paid 27k a year and I work 360. I wish I got a teachers salary. The point is you don't even work the entire year.

Go to school and get a degree. Become a teacher. You can make $40,000 a year to start for only 200 days of work.

>>>>

I owe 32k in student loans. I can't go on to a 4 year school until I learn two levels of a foreign language. And I have to pay for it myself. So I'm stuck. The fact that I don't need a foreign language to work in America is besides the point. Fucking Liberal colleges.

All I see is excuses. I busted my ass while in college and came out with $0 debt.

You didn't have to pay for 2 years of a foreign language-virtually every high school in America offers it for free. You just chose not to take it.

Stop blaming your situation on other people, and focus on what you need to do...until you do that you'll never achieve your goals.

The liberal colleges aren't holding you back-you're holding yourself back with excuses.

I don't have the money to pay for the classes.

 

[mgh80]

I get paid 27k a year and I work 360. I wish I got a teachers salary. The point is you don't even work the entire year.

Go to school and get a degree. Become a teacher. You can make $40,000 a year to start for only 200 days of work.

>>>>

I owe 32k in student loans. I can't go on to a 4 year school until I learn two levels of a foreign language. And I have to pay for it myself. So I'm stuck. The fact that I don't need a foreign language to work in America is besides the point. Fucking Liberal colleges.

All I see is excuses. I busted my ass while in college and came out with $0 debt.

You didn't have to pay for 2 years of a foreign language-virtually every high school in America offers it for free. You just chose not to take it.

Stop blaming your situation on other people, and focus on what you need to do...until you do that you'll never achieve your goals.

The liberal colleges aren't holding you back-you're holding yourself back with excuses.

I don't have the money to pay for the classes.

And whose fault is that other than your own?

You had the opportunity here in America to pull yourself up from your boot straps...unfortunately it sounds like for whatever reason you didn't...not my fault, problem, or concern.

You can be a keyboard warrior all you want and bitch about my "vacation" time, or bitch about what I have...but in the end you get what you earn and you get what you put into life, and everybody is in the situation they're in based on their own actions or lack thereof.

 

[Unkotare]

No...teachers do not get 3 months vacation.

Do too.

Nope, they do not....180 school days by law with students, add in at least 5 prep days....then throw in all the days of professional growth classes. Around here, school doesn't end til mid June and starts up mid Aug. Now...even if you don't count prep days, etc. how does that add up to 3 months vacation?

180 days is 6 months so you are saying they get 6 months of vacation.

Ok I'll break this down for you so even you can understand. I'll use this school year as a reference:

180 CLASSROOM days...199 total work days (those 19 days tend to include more work than the other 180 for the record).

199 total days /5 days in a work week = 40 weeks (rounded up)

*Weekends do NOT count as vacation...that's not just for teachers, that's for most people.*

52 weeks in a year-40 work weeks =12 leftover weeks

12 weeks = 3 months

3 months =/= 6 months

I understand that we get about an extra month throughout the year most positions don't (thanksgiving break, spring break, winter break), which is why I chose not to add any of my mandatory training work days (often on saturdays, during the summers, or after school hours during the week) because it comes out to about a wash.

Gee then...sounds like a sweet deal. Why aren't more people teachers then? And why are they having trouble retaining teachers? In fact, why is there a current teacher shortage in many states?

Try it for a few years and you'll see why.

 

[DGS49]

Did somebody say, "trouble retaining teachers..."?

WHERE? In my school district and around here, teachers NEVER quit. Zero attrition.

The only exception is in the worst schools in the city of Pittsbirgh. Sometimes they lose someone. A couple a year.

Where do they have trouble retaining teachers?

 

[mgh80]

Did somebody say, "trouble retaining teachers..."?

WHERE? In my school district and around here, teachers NEVER quit. Zero attrition.

The only exception is in the worst schools in the city of Pittsbirgh. Sometimes they lose someone. A couple a year.

Where do they have trouble retaining teachers?

In my district there's high turn over (for newer teachers)...granted social studies is almost impossible to get a job in.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Did somebody say, "trouble retaining teachers..."?

WHERE? In my school district and around here, teachers NEVER quit. Zero attrition.

The only exception is in the worst schools in the city of Pittsbirgh. Sometimes they lose someone. A couple a year.

Where do they have trouble retaining teachers?

Interesting, a quick check on this claim was that in 2010 teacher turnover for Pittsburgh Schools (during the period of recession when people tended to keep jobs they had) was:

* 46% Turnover in schools classified as "most vulnerable"

* 34% Turnover in schools classified as "least vulnerable"​

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/c...at-troubled-city-schools/stories/201001120245



I work in Human Resources for a school system in Virginia. Normally our turnover runs about 15%-17% and during the period around 2010 (during the recession) it dipped to around 5% because the job market was tight and people held on to what they had.

"Teacher Shortages" though is one of those nebulous terms that really doesn't mean anything in terms of real world applications. "Teacher Shortages" are really something that applies to selected critical areas such as Math, Hard Science (Biology, Chemistry, Physics, etc.), and Special Education. We typically don't see any shortage of elementary, arts/music, PE, etc. If our Principals are proactive and interview early (March, April, May) time frame - they have a good selection of candidates in the non-critical areas. By July and August, well the best candidates have already been hired. Critical areas though can be hard any time because of the limited quantity of qualified candidates.


>>>>

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

When parents begin to, in droves, think of public school as a warehouse, a baby sitting service and they don't have to participate in any way....yeah, money's not gonna help at all.

Parents are indeed a problem but look at the amount of time that kids spend in school. Arguably the teachers spend more WAKING time with the kids than the parents do. The claim that it is all the parents fault is moronic.

Where did you dream up this fantasy? I see my students 52 minutes a day. if the parents do not see them that much, they are the problem.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The time that parents spend with their kids WHILE THEY'RE AWAKE is around 5 to 6 hours per day. The rest of the time it's sleepy time. Teachers spend at least 7 hours with the kids. So yes, my statement is correct.

Parents:
365 days * 5.5 hours per day = 2007.5 Hours

Teachers
180 Days * (7 - .5 lunch hour) = 1170 Hours


>>>>

You are assuming they have ONE teacher. Bad assumption for any middle of high school students and many elementary students.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Care to give us a percentage of private schools with a mandate to educate every school-aged kid in the district?

The advantage of the private school is that it can shuffle all those test scores around much easier than public schools. Might read Diane Ravitch to see all the tricks that private schools use to raise test scores on paper but not in reality.





Here in Nevada, if the ACLU loses their lawsuit, the average student will be able to find out. Nevada enacted the most comprehensive school voucher program in the USA and that will make it possible for people to enjoy the benefits of a private school.

I simply look at the amount of kids going to private school in my area who go on to college. That number is over 95% and more to the point they go right into a 4 year college and usually with loads of scholarships. Further, the graduation rate is above 90% as well. They perform an order of magnitude better than the public schools in all areas save athletics. For less money spent per student.

Might want to read some of the large studies done on private schools and their success rate.

I have. My wife is a IO psychologist. She is very current on current teaching methods.

Apparently not. Studies show that private school students are on par with public school students. There is no appreciable difference.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

No argument. Care to give us a percentage of Public Schools that can compare favorably with private schools in their area and how much more money is spent per student than at the private school?

Care to give us a percentage of private schools with a mandate to educate every school-aged kid in the district?

The advantage of the private school is that it can shuffle all those test scores around much easier than public schools. Might read Diane Ravitch to see all the tricks that private schools use to raise test scores on paper but not in reality.





Here in Nevada, if the ACLU loses their lawsuit, the average student will be able to find out. Nevada enacted the most comprehensive school voucher program in the USA and that will make it possible for people to enjoy the benefits of a private school.

I simply look at the amount of kids going to private school in my area who go on to college. That number is over 95% and more to the point they go right into a 4 year college and usually with loads of scholarships. Further, the graduation rate is above 90% as well. They perform an order of magnitude better than the public schools in all areas save athletics. For less money spent per student.

Key, is they do it for less money per student.
Teachers are over payed.
They get 3 months vacation. Retire early. It's time they competed for their jobs like everyone else does.

Three months vacations? Are you truly THAT ignorant? You don't get paid in the summer! What kind of vacation is that?

Last year we finished the first week of June. We went back the first of August with a week long training (unpaid) in July.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Care to provide a link to where any of the vouchers have been issued yet? Here in Nevada we are at least a year out.

Sure

• In 1989,the Wisconsin legislature passed the nation’s first modern school voucher program targeting students from low income households in the Milwaukee School District.
• In 2001, Florida enacted the John M. McKay Scholarships Program for Students with Disabilities becoming the first state to offer private school vouchers to students with disabilities.
• In 2004, the first federally funded and administered voucher program was enacted by Congress in Washington, D.C. It offered private school vouchers to low income students, giving priority to those attending low-performing public schools
• In 2007, the Utah legislature passed legislation creating the first statewide universal school voucher program, meaning it was available to any student in state with no limitations on student eligibility. A petition effort successfully placed the legislation on the state ballot for voter approval. In November 2007, the ballot measure was voted down and the new voucher program was never implemented. Utah’s existing special needs voucher program was not affected by the vote.
• In 2011, Indiana created the nation’s first state-wide school voucher program for low income students

http://www.ncsl.org/research/education/school-choice-vouchers.aspx

Did you pay attention to this part of your link?

"though some gains have been found among low income and minority students who receive vouchers.

Other research has found voucher recipients are more likely to graduate from higher school than their public school counterparts"

Parent involvement. Nothing to do with funding. Try again.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The time that parents spend with their kids WHILE THEY'RE AWAKE is around 5 to 6 hours per day. The rest of the time it's sleepy time. Teachers spend at least 7 hours with the kids. So yes, my statement is correct.

Parents:
365 days * 5.5 hours per day = 2007.5 Hours

Teachers
180 Days * (7 - .5 lunch hour) = 1170 Hours


>>>>

You are assuming they have ONE teacher. Bad assumption for any middle of high school students and many elementary students.

I made no such assumption. Westwall said "teachers" and I said "teachers" both of us using the plural, not singular.


>>>>

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

No...teachers do not get 3 months vacation.

Do too.

Technically teachers don't get vacation.

Actually the teachers in my school division are contracted for 200 days and earn no vacation time. Non-teacher full time employment is 5*52 = 260 days. (250 workdays if you assume 2-weeks paid vacation.) Teachers are not paid for the summer either are regular workdays or as vacation days.


>>>>

The argument is they make over 40k a year and don't even have to work the entire year. Whether you call it a vacation or not is immaterial, it's a vacation. I don't play word games with Liberals.

"Don't have to work" is also "don't get paid"!

How many other occupations require a Master's degree paid for out of your own pocket? I worked 10 years before I made 40 grand and THAT was because I went out and got a Master's and was an assistant principal.