Zone1 Is Jesus God?

[hobelim]

Let's just say it this way. You're claiming to have been given special insight from God into the Word that not only escaped the early Church's leaders and every Biblical scholar since then but contradicts their understanding of who Yeshua is.

No, I'm not the only one who knows that Jesus is not God, doesn't take a scholar to know that but let me ask you this, If they all knew all about Jesus and what he taught how is it that this scripture is clear that no one is able to read what was written inside the sealed scroll? except...

"Then I saw a scroll in the right hand of the one sitting on the throne. The scroll had writing on both sides and was kept closed with seven seals. And I saw a powerful angel, who called in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” But there was no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth who could open the scroll or look inside it. I cried and cried because there was no one who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. But one of the elders said to me, “Don’t cry! The Lion from the tribe of Judah has won the victory. He is David’s descendant. He is able to open the scroll and break its seven seals.” Revelation 5:1-5

"The kingdom of heaven is like hidden treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it BURIED IT AGAIN." Matthew 13:44

Yeah, you're special alright.

Right. Does that bother you?

Don't believe because I say so, believe because I have already done what no other man could do

 

[hobelim]

Your thinking is convoluted. Apparently you believe the earth is 6,000 years old.

No, the creation story is about when the law was given in the 13th century bce through Moses as a light to the nations in a world that had been without shape or form and void for billions of years

 

[hadit]

No, I'm not the only one who knows that Jesus is not God, doesn't take a scholar to know that but let me ask you this, If they all knew all about Jesus and what he taught how is it that this scripture is clear that no one is able to read what was written inside the sealed scroll? except...

They walked with Him, talked with Him, saw what He was capable of doing. Yeah, I'll take their word over yours every day and twice on Sunday.

"Then I saw a scroll in the right hand of the one sitting on the throne. The scroll had writing on both sides and was kept closed with seven seals. And I saw a powerful angel, who called in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” But there was no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth who could open the scroll or look inside it. I cried and cried because there was no one who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. But one of the elders said to me, “Don’t cry! The Lion from the tribe of Judah has won the victory. He is David’s descendant. He is able to open the scroll and break its seven seals.” Revelation 5:1-5

"The kingdom of heaven is like hidden treasure lying buried in a field. The man who found it BURIED IT AGAIN." Matthew 13:44

There are mysteries yet to be revealed. They won't, however, come through you, as you can't even get Yeshua's divinity right.

Right. Does that bother you?

Don't believe because I say so, believe because I have already done what no other man could do

No, you're "special" because you believe you have done that. Here's a hint, history is littered with the carcasses of men who thought they alone had figured something out, who turned out to be completely wrong.

 

[ding]

No, the creation story is about when the law was given in the 13th century bce through Moses as a light to the nations in a world that had been without shape or form and void for billions of years

Nope. It announces God created existence. And that is exactly what is still believed today.

 

[hobelim]

They walked with Him, talked with Him, saw what He was capable of doing. Yeah, I'll take their word over yours every day and twice on Sunday.

Right, they walked and talked with a froward Jewish man who liked to eat drink and party, keep bad company, and didn't give a **** about perverse social norms and they saw Jesus with their own eyes expose actors and lying frauds, restore the insane and the religiously addled to sanity, cure the paralyzed by fear, raise the dead, heal the sick, give sight to the blind, and condemn talking serpents to the lowest place in society, which is the will of God, revealed in Genesis 3:14

See? I believe them too. Just not in the superstitious irrational and ridiculous way that you do.

There are mysteries yet to be revealed. They won't, however, come through you, as you can't even get Yeshua's divinity right.

Ha. Here's a mystery revealed. The sword that Jesus said he came to bring is a curse under the appearance of a cup of wine. Do you want sources? Scriptural proof? As if your own confusion inability to grasp children stories, perverse beliefs, and cognitive dissonance isn't enough?

Heres another. Every eyewitness account of Jesus after the crucifixion were eyewitness accounts of that was seen and heard in dreams, the only place where such things are possible and the only way that those 'eyewitness" accounts could be the truth. If you don't believe me take a 9th grade human biology course or just remember your own dreams about the departed.

No, you're "special" because you believe you have done that. Here's a hint, history is littered with the carcasses of men who thought they alone had figured something out, who turned out to be completely wrong.

Right, I am not special because 'I beilieve" I have done that, but because its true I have done that and its easily verifiable, impossible to resist refute or deny except by the lost, the dead... This is really funny coming from someone who "believes" that a fairy tale is to be taken literally. WTF.

You might not realize this but I have been doing this in secret long before the internet existed.

Time will tell? Time has told.

 

[ding]

Right, they walked and talked with a froward Jewish man who liked to eat drink and party, keep bad company, and didn't give a **** about perverse social norms and they saw Jesus with their own eyes expose actors and lying frauds, restore the insane and the religiously addled to sanity, cure the paralyzed by fear, raise the dead, heal the sick, give sight to the blind, and condemn talking serpents to the lowest place in society, which is the will of God, revealed in Genesis 3:14

See? I believe them too. Just not in the superstitious irrational and ridiculous way that you do.


Ha. Here's a mystery revealed. The sword that Jesus said he came to bring is a curse under the appearance of a cup of wine. Do you want sources? Scriptural proof? As if your own confusion inability to grasp children stories, perverse beliefs, and cognitive dissonance isn't enough?

Heres another. Every eyewitness account of Jesus after the crucifixion were eyewitness accounts of that was seen and heard in dreams, the only place where such things are possible and the only way that those 'eyewitness" accounts could be the truth. If you don't believe me take a 9th grade human biology course or just remember your own dreams about the departed.


Right, I am not special because 'I beilieve" I have done that, but because its true I have done that and its easily verifiable, impossible to resist refute or deny except by the lost, the dead... This is really funny coming from someone who "believes" that a fairy tale is to be taken literally. WTF.

You might not realize this but I have been doing this in secret long before the internet existed.

Time will tell? Time has told.

I think you are a delusional hack on a mission to subordinate Christianity like a good little socialist.

 

[hobelim]

I think you are a delusional hack on a mission to subordinate Christianity like a good little socialist.

Awesome! Coming from you thats high praise! Wait a minute! You forgot to include your accusation that I think that I am God. Why did you say that? Because it would make me insane?

But someone is supposed to believe you believe that Jesus was God? You are so pathetic....

 

[ding]

Awesome! Coming from you thats high praise! Wait a minute! You forgot to include your accusation that I think that I am God. Why did you say that? Because it would make me insane?

But someone is supposed to believe you believe that Jesus was God? You are so pathetic....

I don't think you think you are God. I think you think there is no God. So I think you think everyone is their own god. Maybe that's where you got confused.

So the game you are playing is to pretend you believe in God so you can argue that Jesus isn't God. It's a clever approach, but it's not foolproof. Your interpretations of the Bible are extremely limited to a few certain unrelated passages which you twist. And you never ever speak of God. You won't give credit to God for creating existence. You won't speak of your love for God. You never present the positive qualities of God. And you never defend God from the attacks of others.

So, yeah, I think you are a hack. A single minded, OCD asshole who is on a mission to subvert Christianity.

You got something else to say? Because I'm just scratching the surface. I haven't even started to get creative yet.

 

[hadit]

Right, they walked and talked with a froward Jewish man who liked to eat drink and party, keep bad company, and didn't give a **** about perverse social norms and they saw Jesus with their own eyes expose actors and lying frauds, restore the insane and the religiously addled to sanity, cure the paralyzed by fear, raise the dead, heal the sick, give sight to the blind, and condemn talking serpents to the lowest place in society, which is the will of God, revealed in Genesis 3:14

See? I believe them too. Just not in the superstitious irrational and ridiculous way that you do.

Don't forget that they also saw Him do the ultimate proof that He was God, raising Himself from the dead. Many witnessed that fact.

Ha. Here's a mystery revealed. The sword that Jesus said he came to bring is a curse under the appearance of a cup of wine. Do you want sources? Scriptural proof? As if your own confusion inability to grasp children stories, perverse beliefs, and cognitive dissonance isn't enough?

Of course, you need to provide sources if you're going to claim something that's not in Scripture.

Heres another. Every eyewitness account of Jesus after the crucifixion were eyewitness accounts of that was seen and heard in dreams, the only place where such things are possible and the only way that those 'eyewitness" accounts could be the truth. If you don't believe me take a 9th grade human biology course or just remember your own dreams about the departed.

Oh, yes, that's right, they all had the exact same dreams at the exact same times where they all heard each other and Yeshua saying the exact same things. <sarcasm>I DO remember hearing all about how hundreds of people regularly share such dreams in such detail in 9th grade biology </sarcasm>. Sure, now how about some proof of that beyond your empty words? That would be marvelous, actually, since all you've done so far is make claims that Scripture doesn't mean what it says, and you do that with virtually everything it says. Basically, you have an idea in your mind, then you twist Scripture around until you can claim it says what you want it to say, and your favorite is to claim it's all a metaphor.

Right, I am not special because 'I beilieve" I have done that, but because its true I have done that and its easily verifiable, impossible to resist refute or deny except by the lost, the dead... This is really funny coming from someone who "believes" that a fairy tale is to be taken literally. WTF.

You could try to prove what you believe, because you've not done so up until now.

You might not realize this but I have been doing this in secret long before the internet existed.

Time will tell? Time has told.

Do tell, how long have you held this belief?

 

[hobelim]

Don't forget that they also saw Him do the ultimate proof that He was God, raising Himself from the dead. Many witnessed that fact.

Right. Jesus called the Pharisees white washed tombs full of corruption and dead mens bones.
Obviously many people saw Jesus, the first fruits of the dead, rise from the dead and and then preach to the remaining dead. He rolled his stone and was nowhere to be found in that tomb.

And he wasn't God who raised himself, God raised up Jesus from among those entombed by false religion, after he submitted to the baptism of John as a token of repentance for the forgiveness of sin and "heaven opened up to him " and he began his ascension day by day....

 

[hobelim]

Of course, you need to provide sources if you're going to claim something that's not in Scripture.

Oh its in scripture all over the place. And you are the proof that the curse still works like a charm.

"I have not come to bring peace but a sword."

"From his mouth there went a sharp sword with which to smite the nations"

Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them"

"He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword."

Take this cup of wine and drink it, all of you. This is a cup of my blood, the blood of the covenant

Just art thou, in these thy judgments, thou Holy One who art and wast; for the shed the blood of thy people and of thy prophets and thou hast given them blood to drink"

 

[hobelim]

Oh, yes, that's right, they all had the exact same dreams at the exact same times where they all heard each other and Yeshua saying the exact same things. <sarcasm>I DO remember hearing all about how hundreds of people regularly share such dreams in such detail in 9th grade biology </sarcasm>. Sure, now how about some proof of that beyond your empty words? That would be marvelous, actually, since all you've done so far is make claims that Scripture doesn't mean what it says, and you do that with virtually everything it says. Basically, you have an idea in your mind, then you twist Scripture around until you can claim it says what you want it to say, and your favorite is to claim it's all a metaphor.

No one pops into and out of locked rooms except in dreams. Dead people do not eat fish or float up into the sky except in dreams. There are two resurrections. The first is from the death from false religion or the grave of worldly pursuits. The second resurrection if from death of the body.

All metaphors allude to actual realities. Am I telling you something that you don't already know?

 

[hobelim]

You could try to prove what you believe, because you've not done so up until now.

You have a terrible memory.

Thanks for helping me to reveal the wisdom of God in giving the command to refrain from the defiling and contaminating flesh of vile and loathsome unclean creatures that do not ruminate and for demonstrating in full view of heaven and earth, live and in living color, the terrifying and deeply disturbing death, a curse, consequent to setting that instruction aside. Well done!

You may not see the proof because you are the proof. But those standing around watching see.

 

[hobelim]

Do tell, how long have you held this belief?

What belief? Its a fact. The church openly teaches that people can brazenly defy the law of God, worship a human being, and not die, as if its a holy obligation and the only way to eternal life...

Ever since the second grade when I first heard about the talking serpent telling A&E they could defy God and not die. I looked up and saw living talking serpents leading other less fortunate innocent children to their deaths, and a life in hell, east of Eden. Didn't you ever read the story?

I was taught to pay attention so I paid attention and now I am immune to the poison of serpents.

How long have you held the belief that you can defy the law of God, worship a man, and not die?

Ever since you were a child bitten by fiery serpents? Or did you swallow the BS as an adult?

Shame on you.

 

[hadit]

No one pops into and out of locked rooms except in dreams.

The resurrected Christ certainly did. He also hid His appearance from people until the right time to reveal Himself.

Dead people do not eat fish or float up into the sky except in dreams.

The resurrected Christ certainly did. You do realize, don't you, that you're making my case that you have a notion in your mind, then you go to Scripture to twist, deny, claim metaphors, etc. in an attempt to find justification for it?

There are two resurrections. The first is from the death from false religion or the grave of worldly pursuits. The second resurrection if from death of the body.

Again, source?

All metaphors allude to actual realities. Am I telling you something that you don't already know?

You have no standing to simply declare a part of Scripture to be a metaphor.

 

[hadit]

What belief? Its a fact. The church openly teaches that people can brazenly defy the law of God, worship a human being, and not die, as if its a holy obligation and the only way to eternal life...

What church teaches that?

Ever since the second grade when I first heard about the talking serpent telling A&E they could defy God and not die. I looked up and saw living talking serpents leading other less fortunate innocent children to their deaths, and a life in hell, east of Eden. Didn't you ever read the story?

I certainly have read it. I missed the part, though, where you looked up and saw talking serpents twining around your head. That was just in your mind.

I was taught to pay attention so I paid attention and now I am immune to the poison of serpents.

Except that one that's feeding you lies on a daily basis.

How long have you held the belief that you can defy the law of God, worship a man, and not die?

Ever since you were a child bitten by fiery serpents? Or did you swallow the BS as an adult?

Shame on you.

I hold no such belief. See, now you're just desperately projecting, trying to make the argument about me. Here's a hint, it's not working. You haven't proven your argument at all.

 

[hadit]

You have a terrible memory.

Thanks for helping me to reveal the wisdom of God in giving the command to refrain from the defiling and contaminating flesh of vile and loathsome unclean creatures that do not ruminate and for demonstrating in full view of heaven and earth, live and in living color, the terrifying and deeply disturbing death, a curse, consequent to setting that instruction aside. Well done!

Apparently, you haven't gotten the memo, because another random internet keyboard jockey said that whole thing was just a metaphor for not hitting any people that don't chew gum. You really need to try and keep up.

You may not see the proof because you are the proof. But those standing around watching see.

And you again fail to prove a thing.

 

[hobelim]

And you again fail to prove a thing.

Exactly.

Your own words completely devoid of logic or reasoning have proven everything I made known.

 

[hadit]

Oh its in scripture all over the place. And you are the proof that the curse still works like a charm.

"I have not come to bring peace but a sword."

Well, let's take a look at this, shall we? First off, I notice that you chopped the statement off instead of looking at the context. That's your first mistake:

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Now, anyone with a high school understanding of the English language understands that to mean that following Yeshua is not an easy road at all, and that it brings hardships. For proof of that, simply ask a Muslim what would happen to him if he were to renounce Islam to follow Yeshua.

"From his mouth there went a sharp sword with which to smite the nations"

Oh, dear, I'm afraid you have stepped in it this time. Again with context:

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

Who is this? Let's see, His name is The Word of God. Now, where have we heard that name before? Something about being with God and being God in the beginning. Oh, and what's this? He has another name written, Lord of Lords. Who is that? Let's look to Scripture. From Deuteronomy 10:

17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Take from my hand this cup of fiery wine and make all the nations to whom I send you drink it. When they have drunk it they will vomit and go mad; such is the sword that I am sending among them"

It helps your credibility when you cite the Scripture you're quoting. Just plopping down some sentences says nothing.

"He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword."

Ah, yes, I recall that part of Yeshua's story. He was telling his disciples to stand back because prophecy was being fulfilled and they should attempt to interfere:

51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest, and smote off his ear.
52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

That has nothing to do with the sword that Yeshua brought.

Take this cup of wine and drink it, all of you. This is a cup of my blood, the blood of the covenant

Tell us, did the disciples consume actual flesh and blood on that first communion service?
That doesn't have anything to do with the sword that Yeshua brought.

Just art thou, in these thy judgments, thou Holy One who art and wast; for the shed the blood of thy people and of thy prophets and thou hast given them blood to drink"

You've been somewhat amusing with the way you've twisted everything to suit your warped imagination, but that's all. You've not been convincing even a little bit.

 

[hadit]

Exactly.

Your own words completely devoid of logic or reasoning have proven everything I made known.

They are not my words, they are Scripture. You argue against Scripture.