CDZ Is it time to create a new thread, "Honesty"?

[RetiredGySgt]

Is it time to create a new thread, "Honesty"?

What’s stopping you?

His lack of honesty, of course.

One again I need to remind someone that this thread is posted on the CDZ. I'll leave it to the readers to determine which side of the aisle they come from.

Says the guy who is pretending to care about 'honesty' while spreading the Ford scam, not only completely exposed as a lie and merely a performance, but a serious false criminal allegation. I'll remind you that you hiding your troll threads in the CDZ don't exempt you from being called on your BS.

Dr. Ford made a statement, Judge Kavanaugh made a statement and I found Dr. Ford much more credible than Judge Kavanaugh. That is my honest statement.

You claim without a bit of evidence that Dr. Ford's statement was a "fraud". Unless you have evidence which is probative of your statement, you are being dishonest.

Probative? The door was added in 2008 not after she "remembered" the attack in 2012 AND it was for a business not a 2nd door for her to use. In 2012 when she "remembered" the attack she told the shrink there were 4 boys NOT 2 and she named NO NAMES. She taught people how to beat the polygraph yet lied under oath about it. She routinely flew across the pacific and across the US yet wants us to believe she is afraid of flying. She claimed she did not want the info leaked yet a MONTH before the "leak" she hired a lawyer and supposedly took a Polygraph.

Her best friend from that period stated for the record they DID NOT KNOW Kavanaugh at the time she claimed she was attacked.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Seems our democracy is still under attack by foreign actors and citizen agent provocateurs. $$$ Millions are being reported to confuse voters in the 2018 election.

A look at the number of active topics on this message board are examples of fear mongering and misinformation by the usual far right members.

A recent ad on ABC (Good Morning America) is a scurrilous attack on all Democrats, claiming voting for any Democrat will create higher taxes, impeachment of Trump and violence in the streets by angry mobs of Democrats.

As more and more polls are showing Democrats leading in Governor races, and Congressional ones, the right is beginning to panic and has pulled off the gloves to attack not only pols, but the millions of Americans who support a change.

See what is wrong with America, and our elections:

Video: Any Democrat - Future 45

Fear mongering and hate mongering is all the Alt Right and Republican Fellow Travelers seem to have, and someone is funding them. There is no honesty in this scurrilous behavior.

The media needs to report who is funding this fascist propaganda.

LOL the democrats ACTUALLY run on claims of impeachment , repealing tax breaks and openly call for harassing and attacking Republicans and you claim it is a lie? Perhaps you are so far gone you don't know fact from fiction? You start a thread on honesty and have the gonads to post that lie? Shame on you.

Mob rule? Last night Trump supported any guy who can body slam a reporter. GrowTFU, your support for a neo fascist is disgusting and un-American. The Congress under McConnell and Ryan have been coward by the bully in the White House, and IF the Republicans keep the majority in Congress, we can be sure to become like Russia or China. It can happen here and people like you will be responsible.

Some Democrats support impeachment, most Democrats realize control of the Congress, at least the H. or Rep., is most important; most do not want to pass a bill of impeachment, but to move forward and do the work of the People in terms of high taxes, a loss of deductions and fear the loss of health care.

You're either a dope or a liar when you support the rhetoric now being broadcast by dark money.

You DENIED it. When PROMINENT members of your party have OPENLY stated they support IMPEACHMENT and have run on it. They have openly stated they will REPEAL the tax breaks and have OPENLY called for harassment of Republicans. And you try and change the story? You LIED in your own thread on supposed HONESTY.

I do not support impeachment; some D's do, so do some R's, I's and L's; I want Trump to leave the office in disgrace if he runs in 2020 and garners less EC votes than Goldwater did decades ago.

I support a real reform of the federal income tax. Not the fraud that makes the wealthy richer (2/3 of the cuts go to them; and it will never trickle down).

I support the First Amendment, the right to shame people who hold public offices - elected or appointed (how soon the hypocrites forget "lock her up").

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Seems our democracy is still under attack by foreign actors and citizen agent provocateurs. $$$ Millions are being reported to confuse voters in the 2018 election.

A look at the number of active topics on this message board are examples of fear mongering and misinformation by the usual far right members.

A recent ad on ABC (Good Morning America) is a scurrilous attack on all Democrats, claiming voting for any Democrat will create higher taxes, impeachment of Trump and violence in the streets by angry mobs of Democrats.

As more and more polls are showing Democrats leading in Governor races, and Congressional ones, the right is beginning to panic and has pulled off the gloves to attack not only pols, but the millions of Americans who support a change.

See what is wrong with America, and our elections:

Video: Any Democrat - Future 45

Fear mongering and hate mongering is all the Alt Right and Republican Fellow Travelers seem to have, and someone is funding them. There is no honesty in this scurrilous behavior.

The media needs to report who is funding this fascist propaganda.

LOL the democrats ACTUALLY run on claims of impeachment , repealing tax breaks and openly call for harassing and attacking Republicans and you claim it is a lie? Perhaps you are so far gone you don't know fact from fiction? You start a thread on honesty and have the gonads to post that lie? Shame on you.

Mob rule? Last night Trump supported any guy who can body slam a reporter. GrowTFU, your support for a neo fascist is disgusting and un-American. The Congress under McConnell and Ryan have been coward by the bully in the White House, and IF the Republicans keep the majority in Congress, we can be sure to become like Russia or China. It can happen here and people like you will be responsible.

Some Democrats support impeachment, most Democrats realize control of the Congress, at least the H. or Rep., is most important; most do not want to pass a bill of impeachment, but to move forward and do the work of the People in terms of high taxes, a loss of deductions and fear the loss of health care.

You're either a dope or a liar when you support the rhetoric now being broadcast by dark money.

You DENIED it. When PROMINENT members of your party have OPENLY stated they support IMPEACHMENT and have run on it. They have openly stated they will REPEAL the tax breaks and have OPENLY called for harassment of Republicans. And you try and change the story? You LIED in your own thread on supposed HONESTY.

I do not support impeachment; some D's do, so do some R's, I's and L's; I want Trump to leave the office in disgrace if he runs in 2020 and garners less EC votes than Goldwater did decades ago.

I support a real reform of the federal income tax. Not the fraud that makes the wealthy richer (2/3 of the cuts go to them; and it will never trickle down).

I support the First Amendment, the right to shame people who hold public offices - elected or appointed (how soon the hypocrites forget "lock her up").

You claimed in THIS thread that NO dems support impeachment I called you on it and pointed out your dishonest statement.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Seems our democracy is still under attack by foreign actors and citizen agent provocateurs. $$$ Millions are being reported to confuse voters in the 2018 election.

A look at the number of active topics on this message board are examples of fear mongering and misinformation by the usual far right members.

A recent ad on ABC (Good Morning America) is a scurrilous attack on all Democrats, claiming voting for any Democrat will create higher taxes, impeachment of Trump and violence in the streets by angry mobs of Democrats.

As more and more polls are showing Democrats leading in Governor races, and Congressional ones, the right is beginning to panic and has pulled off the gloves to attack not only pols, but the millions of Americans who support a change.

See what is wrong with America, and our elections:

Video: Any Democrat - Future 45

Fear mongering and hate mongering is all the Alt Right and Republican Fellow Travelers seem to have, and someone is funding them. There is no honesty in this scurrilous behavior.

The media needs to report who is funding this fascist propaganda.

LOL the democrats ACTUALLY run on claims of impeachment , repealing tax breaks and openly call for harassing and attacking Republicans and you claim it is a lie? Perhaps you are so far gone you don't know fact from fiction? You start a thread on honesty and have the gonads to post that lie? Shame on you.

Mob rule? Last night Trump supported any guy who can body slam a reporter. GrowTFU, your support for a neo fascist is disgusting and un-American. The Congress under McConnell and Ryan have been coward by the bully in the White House, and IF the Republicans keep the majority in Congress, we can be sure to become like Russia or China. It can happen here and people like you will be responsible.

Some Democrats support impeachment, most Democrats realize control of the Congress, at least the H. or Rep., is most important; most do not want to pass a bill of impeachment, but to move forward and do the work of the People in terms of high taxes, a loss of deductions and fear the loss of health care.

You're either a dope or a liar when you support the rhetoric now being broadcast by dark money.

You DENIED it. When PROMINENT members of your party have OPENLY stated they support IMPEACHMENT and have run on it. They have openly stated they will REPEAL the tax breaks and have OPENLY called for harassment of Republicans. And you try and change the story? You LIED in your own thread on supposed HONESTY.

I do not support impeachment; some D's do, so do some R's, I's and L's; I want Trump to leave the office in disgrace if he runs in 2020 and garners less EC votes than Goldwater did decades ago.

I support a real reform of the federal income tax. Not the fraud that makes the wealthy richer (2/3 of the cuts go to them; and it will never trickle down).

I support the First Amendment, the right to shame people who hold public offices - elected or appointed (how soon the hypocrites forget "lock her up").

You claimed in THIS thread that NO dems support impeachment I called you on it and pointed out your dishonest statement.

Thank you for clearing up my confusion:

"Some Democrats support impeachment, most Democrats realize control of the Congress, at least the H. or Rep., is most important; most do not want to pass a bill of impeachment, but to move forward and do the work of the People in terms of high taxes, a loss of deductions and fear the loss of health care.

"You're either a dope or a liar*** when you support the rhetoric now being broadcast by dark money."

From the link, I'm no longer confused, you are a liar.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Seems our democracy is still under attack by foreign actors and citizen agent provocateurs. $$$ Millions are being reported to confuse voters in the 2018 election.

A look at the number of active topics on this message board are examples of fear mongering and misinformation by the usual far right members.

A recent ad on ABC (Good Morning America) is a scurrilous attack on all Democrats, claiming voting for any Democrat will create higher taxes, impeachment of Trump and violence in the streets by angry mobs of Democrats.

As more and more polls are showing Democrats leading in Governor races, and Congressional ones, the right is beginning to panic and has pulled off the gloves to attack not only pols, but the millions of Americans who support a change.

See what is wrong with America, and our elections:

Video: Any Democrat - Future 45

Fear mongering and hate mongering is all the Alt Right and Republican Fellow Travelers seem to have, and someone is funding them. There is no honesty in this scurrilous behavior.

The media needs to report who is funding this fascist propaganda.

You posted THIS, or have you forgotten? You claimed democrats did NOT run on impeaching trump removing the tax cuts and advocating violence when IN FACT many did just THAT.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Seems our democracy is still under attack by foreign actors and citizen agent provocateurs. $$$ Millions are being reported to confuse voters in the 2018 election.

A look at the number of active topics on this message board are examples of fear mongering and misinformation by the usual far right members.

A recent ad on ABC (Good Morning America) is a scurrilous attack on all Democrats, claiming voting for any Democrat will create higher taxes, impeachment of Trump and violence in the streets by angry mobs of Democrats.

As more and more polls are showing Democrats leading in Governor races, and Congressional ones, the right is beginning to panic and has pulled off the gloves to attack not only pols, but the millions of Americans who support a change.

See what is wrong with America, and our elections:

Video: Any Democrat - Future 45

Fear mongering and hate mongering is all the Alt Right and Republican Fellow Travelers seem to have, and someone is funding them. There is no honesty in this scurrilous behavior.

The media needs to report who is funding this fascist propaganda.

You posted THIS, or have you forgotten? You claimed democrats did NOT run on impeaching trump removing the tax cuts and advocating violence when IN FACT many did just THAT.

There is NOTHING in my post to recommend Trump be impeached, apparently you are a liar who can't comprehend the written words, your hackery and bias gets in the way, to wit:

"A recent ad on ABC (Good Morning America) is a scurrilous attack on all Democrats, claiming voting for any Democrat will create higher taxes, impeachment of Trump and violence in the streets by angry mobs of Democrats."
LINK: Post #132 above


If re the paragraph ^^^ in which impeachment is made, references people like you who make claims that people like me post shit that people like you actually post, and the truth of this is your comment is the comments you've made in this thread.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I never said YOU said he should be impeached what YOU did say was democrats in general never said it and were not running on it, you can not even be honest in your own thread on honesty.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Its an interesting concept.

When I first joined this board I was a bit shocked at the amount of lying going on. I started a thread suggesting that stuff should be verified in some way and was roundly abused for it. Not needed I was told.

The bullshit falls into several categories.

Primarily there are posters who link to sites that lie and stories that are lies. Ive seen Muslim riots in London that were actually nazi riots in Cardiff. Stories without quotes, opinion dressed as fact and so on. I have no idea if the board has the resource to manage this,probably not to the extent of checking out each story.

Maybe a forum with a higher standard would be an answer to that. In reality it should be the CDZ but the management of this forum is uneven and often partisan.

 

[Mac1958]

Hardcore partisan ideologues are not exactly honest to begin with, so expecting anything approaching intellectual honesty here is folly.

When you stumble into here and there, great. But expecting it? No.
.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I never said YOU said he should be impeached what YOU did say was democrats in general never said it and were not running on it, you can not even be honest in your own thread on honesty.

Hardcore partisan ideologues are not exactly honest to begin with, so expecting anything approaching intellectual honesty here is folly.

When you stumble into here and there, great. But expecting it? No.
.

The Clean Zone does not require honesty, only deportment; I agree, one must stumble & fall into a thread where manners and behavior are respectable.

 

[martybegan]

It really is time for honesty, a forum which requires every post on every issue to provide probative evidence that what they posted is true, and the powers that be choose the standard they feel best supports honesty, to wit:

Legal Standards are those standards that are set forth in governmental laws. Ethical standards are based on the human principles of right and wrong. Something can be legal but not ethical.

There is no doubt that Ethical Standards hold the truth as good, and a lie bad. It is really that simple, that the Internet in general, and this message board in particular has members who are honest and who are liars.

I do not and will not suggest censorship. I support allowing the White Nationalists to make their case overtly, and let Black Lives Matter do the same; let the anti Semites make their case, the the Jews make theirs; let the liberals and the conservatives, let the Democrats, the Republicans, the Libertarians the Greens and the anarchists speak their mind and explain how they would govern or be governed. others.

The problem is most people replace opinion for fact, or try to create factual arguments over something that is really opinion.

Saying "that ball is blue" is something easy to judge on a factual basis, and to determine the truth or a lie when a person says "that ball is red", or "that isn't a ball it's a howitzer"

One also has to be honest to oneself to be truthful, as people are incredibly able to believe in falsehoods, or to ignore obvious evidence that interrupts their narrative.

It's easy to be disingenuous on social media. That ball was green not blue, or that ball didn't exist. Just link to a propaganda website of your choosing to validate your "facts". Even if the falsehoods get corrected later there are already plenty that believe, especially if it supports their position/politics/worldview.

There is more access to "information" than there ever has been in the history of the human race. For truths or lies, and for good or bad.

There is also more ability to manipulate the information, either subtly, or overtly.

People are also able to sense false narratives if they want to, it's when they don't want to that the problem arises.

People can see a blue ball instead of a red one if they really want to, just like the 4 or 5 lights in 1984.

 

[Wry Catcher]

It really is time for honesty, a forum which requires every post on every issue to provide probative evidence that what they posted is true, and the powers that be choose the standard they feel best supports honesty, to wit:

Legal Standards are those standards that are set forth in governmental laws. Ethical standards are based on the human principles of right and wrong. Something can be legal but not ethical.

There is no doubt that Ethical Standards hold the truth as good, and a lie bad. It is really that simple, that the Internet in general, and this message board in particular has members who are honest and who are liars.

I do not and will not suggest censorship. I support allowing the White Nationalists to make their case overtly, and let Black Lives Matter do the same; let the anti Semites make their case, the the Jews make theirs; let the liberals and the conservatives, let the Democrats, the Republicans, the Libertarians the Greens and the anarchists speak their mind and explain how they would govern or be governed. others.

The problem is most people replace opinion for fact, or try to create factual arguments over something that is really opinion.

Saying "that ball is blue" is something easy to judge on a factual basis, and to determine the truth or a lie when a person says "that ball is red", or "that isn't a ball it's a howitzer"

One also has to be honest to oneself to be truthful, as people are incredibly able to believe in falsehoods, or to ignore obvious evidence that interrupts their narrative.

It's easy to be disingenuous on social media. That ball was green not blue, or that ball didn't exist. Just link to a propaganda website of your choosing to validate your "facts". Even if the falsehoods get corrected later there are already plenty that believe, especially if it supports their position/politics/worldview.

There is more access to "information" than there ever has been in the history of the human race. For truths or lies, and for good or bad.

There is also more ability to manipulate the information, either subtly, or overtly.

People are also able to sense false narratives if they want to, it's when they don't want to that the problem arises.

People can see a blue ball instead of a red one if they really want to, just like the 4 or 5 lights in 1984.

I agree, and wonder than why so many members of this board continue to post meme's as if the balloon is not red or blue but really a used condom?

 

[martybegan]

It really is time for honesty, a forum which requires every post on every issue to provide probative evidence that what they posted is true, and the powers that be choose the standard they feel best supports honesty, to wit:

Legal Standards are those standards that are set forth in governmental laws. Ethical standards are based on the human principles of right and wrong. Something can be legal but not ethical.

There is no doubt that Ethical Standards hold the truth as good, and a lie bad. It is really that simple, that the Internet in general, and this message board in particular has members who are honest and who are liars.

I do not and will not suggest censorship. I support allowing the White Nationalists to make their case overtly, and let Black Lives Matter do the same; let the anti Semites make their case, the the Jews make theirs; let the liberals and the conservatives, let the Democrats, the Republicans, the Libertarians the Greens and the anarchists speak their mind and explain how they would govern or be governed. others.

The problem is most people replace opinion for fact, or try to create factual arguments over something that is really opinion.

Saying "that ball is blue" is something easy to judge on a factual basis, and to determine the truth or a lie when a person says "that ball is red", or "that isn't a ball it's a howitzer"

One also has to be honest to oneself to be truthful, as people are incredibly able to believe in falsehoods, or to ignore obvious evidence that interrupts their narrative.

It's easy to be disingenuous on social media. That ball was green not blue, or that ball didn't exist. Just link to a propaganda website of your choosing to validate your "facts". Even if the falsehoods get corrected later there are already plenty that believe, especially if it supports their position/politics/worldview.

There is more access to "information" than there ever has been in the history of the human race. For truths or lies, and for good or bad.

There is also more ability to manipulate the information, either subtly, or overtly.

People are also able to sense false narratives if they want to, it's when they don't want to that the problem arises.

People can see a blue ball instead of a red one if they really want to, just like the 4 or 5 lights in 1984.

I agree, and wonder than why so many members of this board continue to post meme's as if the balloon is not red or blue but really a used condom?

It's the same reason one of my idiot cousins keeps posting Occupy democrats stuff on Facebook and bitches when people tell him most of the time they are exaggerations at best, and lies at worst: They fit his narrative.

 

[Wry Catcher]

"To enhance transparency and accountability for online political advertisements by requiring those who purchase and publish such ads to disclose information about the advertisements to the public, and for other purposes."

S. Bill 1989 Introduced in Oct. 2017, has never been active because McConnell does not seem to believe political ads need to be honest in terms of who or what supports them or attacks them.

The Honest Ads Act

S.1989 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Honest Ads Act

One more reason for those who support honesty in our elections and their supporters to support honesty.

 

[Chuz Life]

It really is time for honesty, a forum which requires every post on every issue to provide probative evidence that what they posted is true, and the powers that be choose the standard they feel best supports honesty, to wit:

Legal Standards are those standards that are set forth in governmental laws. Ethical standards are based on the human principles of right and wrong. Something can be legal but not ethical.

There is no doubt that Ethical Standards hold the truth as good, and a lie bad. It is really that simple, that the Internet in general, and this message board in particular, has members who are honest and who are liars.

I do not and will not suggest censorship. I support allowing the White Nationalists to make their case overtly, and let Black Lives Matter do the same; let the anti Semites make their case, and the Jews make theirs; let the liberals and the conservatives, let the Democrats, let the Republicans, the Libertarians the Greens and the anarchists to speak their mind and explain how they would govern or be governed.

What you are suggesting is something very similar to the site "pro con.org" (I think that's the name). Arguments are made on both sides down separate columns and readers can easily read, contrast and compare the two.

I wishe we also could have something like that here.

Every point here on USMB seems to get buried and diverted away from in a race to the bottom of sniping and unrelated personal attacks.

 

[PredFan]

It really is time for honesty, a forum which requires every post on every issue to provide probative evidence that what they posted is true, and the powers that be choose the standard they feel best supports honesty, to wit:

Legal Standards are those standards that are set forth in governmental laws. Ethical standards are based on the human principles of right and wrong. Something can be legal but not ethical.

There is no doubt that Ethical Standards hold the truth as good, and a lie bad. It is really that simple, that the Internet in general, and this message board in particular, has members who are honest and who are liars.

I do not and will not suggest censorship. I support allowing the White Nationalists to make their case overtly, and let Black Lives Matter do the same; let the anti Semites make their case, and the Jews make theirs; let the liberals and the conservatives, let the Democrats, let the Republicans, the Libertarians the Greens and the anarchists to speak their mind and explain how they would govern or be governed.

To what end? Prior to my coming here I belonged to the Hannity Forum. It was heavily moderated and even then there were debate zones within that were "refereed" to ensure honesty and proof of statements. The best outcome ever seen on them was an agreement to disagree. Never were minds changed despite the fact that there were clear winners. The left continued to believe what they believed and continued to argue. Some would probably say the same about the right. The division is too wide, and most likely cannot be bridged.

 

[Chuz Life]

It really is time for honesty, a forum which requires every post on every issue to provide probative evidence that what they posted is true, and the powers that be choose the standard they feel best supports honesty, to wit:

Legal Standards are those standards that are set forth in governmental laws. Ethical standards are based on the human principles of right and wrong. Something can be legal but not ethical.

There is no doubt that Ethical Standards hold the truth as good, and a lie bad. It is really that simple, that the Internet in general, and this message board in particular, has members who are honest and who are liars.

I do not and will not suggest censorship. I support allowing the White Nationalists to make their case overtly, and let Black Lives Matter do the same; let the anti Semites make their case, and the Jews make theirs; let the liberals and the conservatives, let the Democrats, let the Republicans, the Libertarians the Greens and the anarchists to speak their mind and explain how they would govern or be governed.

To what end? Prior to my coming here I belonged to the Hannity Forum. It was heavily moderated and even then there were debate zones within that were "refereed" to ensure honesty and proof of statements. The best outcome ever seen on them was an agreement to disagree. Never were minds changed despite the fact that there were clear winners. The left continued to believe what they believed and continued to argue. Some would probably say the same about the right. The division is too wide, and most likely cannot be bridged.

You raise a good point about the divide. However, I can not explain why it was so easy for me to change MY own mind on so many issues (including abortion) but the same facts that caused me to change my views have absolutely no effect on others.

That is One if the many reasons I have no respect or regard for them (my opponents.) They are impervious to the facts.

 

[candycorn]

It really is time for honesty, a forum which requires every post on every issue to provide probative evidence that what they posted is true, and the powers that be choose the standard they feel best supports honesty, to wit:

Legal Standards are those standards that are set forth in governmental laws. Ethical standards are based on the human principles of right and wrong. Something can be legal but not ethical.

There is no doubt that Ethical Standards hold the truth as good, and a lie bad. It is really that simple, that the Internet in general, and this message board in particular, has members who are honest and who are liars.

I do not and will not suggest censorship. I support allowing the White Nationalists to make their case overtly, and let Black Lives Matter do the same; let the anti Semites make their case, and the Jews make theirs; let the liberals and the conservatives, let the Democrats, let the Republicans, the Libertarians the Greens and the anarchists to speak their mind and explain how they would govern or be governed.

Not the worst idea I've ever heard

 

[DandyDonovan]

It really is time for honesty, a forum which requires every post on every issue to provide probative evidence that what they posted is true, and the powers that be choose the standard they feel best supports honesty, to wit:

Legal Standards are those standards that are set forth in governmental laws. Ethical standards are based on the human principles of right and wrong. Something can be legal but not ethical.

There is no doubt that Ethical Standards hold the truth as good, and a lie bad. It is really that simple, that the Internet in general, and this message board in particular, has members who are honest and who are liars.

I do not and will not suggest censorship. I support allowing the White Nationalists to make their case overtly, and let Black Lives Matter do the same; let the anti Semites make their case, and the Jews make theirs; let the liberals and the conservatives, let the Democrats, let the Republicans, the Libertarians the Greens and the anarchists to speak their mind and explain how they would govern or be governed.

To what end? Prior to my coming here I belonged to the Hannity Forum. It was heavily moderated and even then there were debate zones within that were "refereed" to ensure honesty and proof of statements. The best outcome ever seen on them was an agreement to disagree. Never were minds changed despite the fact that there were clear winners. The left continued to believe what they believed and continued to argue. Some would probably say the same about the right. The division is too wide, and most likely cannot be bridged.

You raise a good point about the divide. However, I can not explain why it was so easy for me to change MY own mind on so many issues (including abortion) but the same facts that caused me to change my views have absolutely no effect on others.

That is One if the many reasons I have no respect or regard for them (my opponents.) They are impervious to the facts.

Well, when the Speaker of the House and other members of Congress do things like simply walk out of the room, or outright tell a law enforcement official that they do not believe the facts that they are being told when they are the ones creating laws to govern us, what do you expect average people to think about facts?

 

[Wry Catcher]

It really is time for honesty, a forum which requires every post on every issue to provide probative evidence that what they posted is true, and the powers that be choose the standard they feel best supports honesty, to wit:

Legal Standards are those standards that are set forth in governmental laws. Ethical standards are based on the human principles of right and wrong. Something can be legal but not ethical.

There is no doubt that Ethical Standards hold the truth as good, and a lie bad. It is really that simple, that the Internet in general, and this message board in particular, has members who are honest and who are liars.

I do not and will not suggest censorship. I support allowing the White Nationalists to make their case overtly, and let Black Lives Matter do the same; let the anti Semites make their case, and the Jews make theirs; let the liberals and the conservatives, let the Democrats, let the Republicans, the Libertarians the Greens and the anarchists to speak their mind and explain how they would govern or be governed.

To what end? Prior to my coming here I belonged to the Hannity Forum. It was heavily moderated and even then there were debate zones within that were "refereed" to ensure honesty and proof of statements. The best outcome ever seen on them was an agreement to disagree. Never were minds changed despite the fact that there were clear winners. The left continued to believe what they believed and continued to argue. Some would probably say the same about the right. The division is too wide, and most likely cannot be bridged.

You raise a good point about the divide. However, I can not explain why it was so easy for me to change MY own mind on so many issues (including abortion) but the same facts that caused me to change my views have absolutely no effect on others.

That is One if the many reasons I have no respect or regard for them (my opponents.) They are impervious to the facts.

Well, when the Speaker of the House and other members of Congress do things like simply walk out of the room, or outright tell a law enforcement official that they do not believe the facts that they are being told when they are the ones creating laws to govern us, what do you expect average people to think about facts?

Please keep up, the trump administration has created a new term, alternative facts.