Is it time for a legitimate third party?

[dblack]

What MAGAt rubbish. The whole electoral college bullshit was a dance to satisfy the slaver states' paranoia and economic self interest. It's why so many early presidents were Southerners.

What do you think would happen if we tried to pass an amendment changing that? Do you think the small, rural states would vote for it?

 

[cnm]

You've never heard of the 3/5 compromise?

That's exactly what I'm talking about. It was to mollify the slaver states. To corrupt the principle of freedom right from the very start.

As has been seen ever since.

 

[cnm]

What do you think would happen if we tried to pass an amendment changing that? Do you think the small, rural states would vote for it?

I think you're captured by an antediluvian document buttressed by vested interests.

A disaster.

 

[dblack]

I think you're captured by an antediluvian document buttressed by vested interests.

A disaster.

Uh... okay.

What do you think would happen if we tried to pass an amendment changing the EC to a nationwide, popular vote? Do you think the small, rural states would vote for it?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Is it time for a legitimate third party?

• Too much political divide on issues that could have a common middle ground?
• Our 2 current parties drive their own agenda, while the a unheard majorities voice is left unheard, seen, or advised.
• In today's political climate, how would a third party get a voice? We are not asking for a seat at the table, but rather, a voice that can be heard. Then let the dominoes fall.
• George Washington warned of political parties subverting the people and leading to despotism. This board that example where many on here, express desire to remove the other in totality.
• From Washington - "...The very idea of the power and the right of the people to establish government presupposes the duty of every individual to obey the established government.
  
  All obstructions to the execution of the laws, all combinations and associations, under whatever plausible character, with the real design to direct, control, counteract, or awe the regular deliberation and action of the constituted authorities, are destructive of this fundamental principle, and of fatal tendency. They serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the delegated will of the nation the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community; and, according to the alternate triumphs of different parties, to make the public administration the mirror of the ill-concerted and incongruous projects of faction, rather than the organ of consistent and wholesome plans digested by common counsels and modified by mutual interests.
  
  However combinations or associations of the above description may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion".
  

  Farewell Address (1796) | Constitution Center

  National Constitution Center Historic Documents Library record for Farewell Address (1796)

  constitutioncenter.org
• The above is where we are today. Do you disagree?
• Recent Gallup Poll (take it for what it's worth says that support of a third viable party is up 63%
  • Support for Third U.S. Political Party Up to 63%
• And, maybe there is another option; no parties, purely a stance and position.
• Has the country outgrown our political party system?

The current situation in this country does not support a third party. People who are ignorant talk about the "duopoly" when the fact that it exists is precisely because of the polarization in this nation. There are literally hundreds of policies and proposals by the Democrats that are an antithesis to our form of government and the beliefs of the average American. To a lesser extent, the Republicans hold a few views that also run counter to the best interests of the people. That is why elections have come down to a choice of the lesser of two evils. I believe that few of your average voters agree with everything pushed by one party or the other.


Personally, I am a conservative, but I hold some views that conservatives do not and often call me a liberal, because liberals have cornered the market in those areas. When it comes to the topic of education, I tend to the middle ground. I do not support the efforts of liberals in the teacher's unions trying to influence curriculum because when I was teaching, that was unheard of. I strongly oppose conservative efforts to defund public education to provide vouchers because of all the inherent abuses and inequities in their programs. I was a teacher and administrator for 21 years and I find fault with almost every politician who pontificates on education, because most of them are not educated in education, and could not find their ass with both hands.


Abortion is another topic where both sides seem to have it wrong because of the divisiveness. I happen to like Trump's position of this because it seeks a middle ground. Only the fringe liberals who support abortion on demand for the entire pregnancy are the extremists, but they have significant numbers.

The biggest issue is that third parties cannot gather enough voters in that middle ground to even be competitive, as most mainstream politicians hold one or more extremist's view. Solve that problem and you might have a chance at a valid third party or a replacement for the current extremes. The idea of s true duopoly in this country is ridiculous by any measure.

 

[Curried Goats]

Uh... okay.

What do you think would happen if we tried to pass an amendment changing the EC to a nationwide, popular vote? Do you think the small, rural states would vote for it?

You act like there's only one way to skin a cat.

 

[Skylar]

The current situation in this country does not support a third party. People who are ignorant talk about the "duopoly" when the fact that it exists is precisely because of the polarization in this nation. There are literally hundreds of policies and proposals by the Democrats that are an antithesis to our form of government and the beliefs of the average American. To a lesser extent, the Republicans hold a few views that also run counter to the best interests of the people. That is why elections have come down to a choice of the lesser of two evils. I believe that few of your average voters agree with everything pushed by one party or the other.


Personally, I am a conservative, but I hold some views that conservatives do not and often call me a liberal, because liberals have cornered the market in those areas. When it comes to the topic of education, I tend to the middle ground. I do not support the efforts of liberals in the teacher's unions trying to influence curriculum because when I was teaching, that was unheard of. I strongly oppose conservative efforts to defund public education to provide vouchers because of all the inherent abuses and inequities in their programs.

What would the third party's policies be? This is not a minor issue.

 

[dblack]

The current situation in this country does not support a third party. People who are ignorant talk about the "duopoly" when the fact that it exists is precisely because of the polarization in this nation.

The division is driven by the two-party system. We have far more in common than in contrast, but the two parties make hay via division - so we have division.

 

[Magnus]

And maybe it's not a party, but a person(s) that have a voice that is heard. I don't know how it's done, but the current process is not working.

Actually, it is working. Just because the orange loser is hell-bent on overthrowing the Constitution, doesn't mean you thow out the baby with the bath-water.

And this is exactly what I'm talking about. Let's not pretend, that the majority of the MSM, which is left, doesn't do the same, if not worse.

Which MSM? Fox news? Yeah, they are part of the right-wing echo chamber. Others, nope.

Same can be said for the left: Trump is hitler, fascist, threat to democracy, yadda yadda yadda. Your post is exactly what we have to get away from. And maybe it's the MSM that needs to be held accountable for biases on both the left and right.

Because Trump is a fascist. He is on record that he would sic the armed forces on his so-called "enemies".

He has encouraged his cult retarded followers to attack the Capitol and hang his own VP just because they wanted to follow the Constitution and he doesn't.

Don't equate a Fascist with the Dems. That's on you lot. Next time don't nominate a criminal felon who has been charged with multiple crimes.

Let me know if you are still confused.

 

[whitehall]

"Legitimate"? What does that mean? You can find half a dozen 3rd parties> The dirty little secret is that people who whine about a 3rd party are usually democrats who don't trust either Biden or Harris but are so filled with hatred for Trump that they look for an alternative that they wish is popular.

 

[Billiejeens]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. It was to mollify the slaver states. To corrupt the principle of freedom right from the very start.

As has been seen ever since.

It wasn't
No wonder all of your posts are so ******* stupid.

 

[dblack]

Uh... okay.

What do you think would happen if we tried to pass an amendment changing the EC to a nationwide, popular vote? Do you think the small, rural states would vote for it?

I'll answer, given that cnm doesn't want to. The answer is no, they would never voluntary reduce their influence in that way. And THIS is why the EC system was necessary in the first place. No one wants to sign on to a game they will always lose. If you're always in the minority, majority rules is a losing proposition.

 

[BluesLegend]

We don't need a 3rd party, we need 2 less parties.

 

[BluesLegend]

"Legitimate"? What does that mean? You can find half a dozen 3rd parties> The dirty little secret is that people who whine about a 3rd party are usually democrats who don't trust either Biden or Harris but are so filled with hatred for Trump that they look for an alternative that they wish is popular.

Or they are naive and cling to cry babies like Gary Johnson.

 

[Skylar]

"Legitimate"? What does that mean? You can find half a dozen 3rd parties> The dirty little secret is that people who whine about a 3rd party are usually democrats who don't trust either Biden or Harris but are so filled with hatred for Trump that they look for an alternative that they wish is popular.

There are third parties. People just don't vote for them in any significant number.

What would the polities of a 'legitimate' third party be, specifically?

That there's no good answer to this question is why there's no 'legitimate' third party.

 

[LibertyKid]

Actually, it is working. Just because the orange loser is hell-bent on overthrowing the Constitution, doesn't mean you thow out the baby with the bath-water.


Which MSM? Fox news? Yeah, they are part of the right-wing echo chamber. Others, nope.


Because Trump is a fascist. He is on record that he would sic the armed forces on his so-called "enemies".

He has encouraged his cult retarded followers to attack the Capitol and hang his own VP just because they wanted to follow the Constitution and he doesn't.

Don't equate a Fascist with the Dems. That's on you lot. Next time don't nominate a criminal felon who has been charged with multiple crimes.

Let me know if you are still confused.

This is not what I wanted from this thread, a bunch of you jumping in and doing exactly what we should be getting away from. But so many of you are so entrenched that your ideology, politically, is the only way, you can't stop, for one thread, and talk reasonably.

 

[cnm]

What do you think would happen if we tried to pass an amendment changing the EC to a nationwide, popular vote? Do you think the small, rural states would vote for it?

I think no amendment can pass. You have a disaster of a founding document.

 

[cnm]

If you're always in the minority, majority rules is a losing proposition.

We know US conservatives hate democracy.

 

[Skylar]

This is not what I wanted from this thread, a bunch of you jumping in and doing exactly what we should be getting away from. But so many of you are so entrenched that your ideology, politically, is the only way, you can't stop, for one thread, and talk reasonably.

Entrenched ideology is something that a 'legitimate' third party will have to deal with. If your 'legitimate' third party can only exist in an imaginary ivory tower of vague platitudes to the unrepresented 'majority', and collapses under the weight of the real world circumstances, actual policy, and actual voter sentiment...

.....how 'legitimate' is it?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

are you assuming a "centrist " rhird party?

i'd expect we really need a party to the left of democrats , maybe a bull moose style progressive party?:

You have one already. They are the extreme left wing of the Democrats of keep pulling the party their way. Kamala, Bernie, AOC, the other Squad members, etc. drag moderate Democrats kicking and screaming into their woke ideology.