Is it right to force kids to read the Anne Frank Diary?

[Samson]

It would save Islamist Extremists the trouble of teaching Americans to hate Muslims the hard way.

OK, what ever that means???

Yes, this is a better construction;

It would save Islamist Extremists the trouble of teaching Americans the hard way to hate Muslims.

There.

 

[Sunni Man]

It would save Islamist Extremists the trouble of teaching Americans the hard way to hate Muslims.

Oh, OK what ever you say

 

[Kalam]

What "non-fictional books" are school kids reading in Saudi Arabia.....

Is that the system of education America should aspire to mimic?

...?

 

[frazzledgear]

The Anne Frank diary has largely been proven to be a fraud.

There is evidence that portions were written AFTER her death.

Even her Father admitted in court that he had altered sections of the diary.

Yet it is still taught in schools to be a fact.

That's funny but I can't find a single credible source suggesting her WORDS in that diary were altered by her father. And not a single credible source saying it is a fraud, much less a "proven fraud". There was never "a diary" in the first place. She left three different notebooks and more than 300 loose pages that he edited into a single book for publication. But he OPENLY said he chose to not allow the parts that discussed her difficult relationship with her mother to be published -not only on the grounds they were the harsh and unkind words of a teen girl written in the heat of the moment, but also that an adult Anne would have regretted those words about her mother and never wanted them published. He also said he edited out several parts where she was discussing dealing with her emerging sexuality because it was too invasive of her privacy. You think putting those parts back in would have significantly altered her story or what?

What "court" are you referring to here? The only ones regarding this diary are those where Otto Frank was a complainant and co-complainant in a couple of court cases involving the unsubstantiated crap a couple of Holocaust deniers wrote. And what the court had to say about those guys after finding in favor of Otto Frank - was really ugly but totally accurate descriptions of them.

Maybe you didn't know this -but when Otto Frank died, he left all the original papers, all of which have been proven to be in Ann Frank's handwriting, to the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation. They conducted a definitive expert analysis of the diary using state-of-the-art technology. Their report, which is published as The Diary of Anne Frank: The Critical Edition, is 719 pages long. The State Institute conclusively determined that the diary currently published as the "definitive" version is not a "novel" or a "literary fraud" but it is an accurate presentation of the original material and that all of the materials were written by Anne.

Now whatever you have you thinks supports your claim it is a "fake" must have at least the same kind of serious credentials to support your claim. Who actually SAW and researched the original papers she left behind, when did the Netherlands State Institute allow them access to those documents, what methods did they use, who verified their work -and most importantly, what are his/her credentials to even make that determination in the first place. Where among her papers can that person point to anything that is different from what was published?

NOT so oddly enough, the ONLY people to claim it is a fake are the same people who also insist the Holocaust never happened -which means they have zero credibility. It would be funny if it weren't so viciously evil -but the claim that those "evil, bad" Jews were able to cobble together a plot so HUMONGOUS, so devious and deranged and did so in one European country after another, getting it all wrapped up with all Jews "in the loop" in on it, a plot that involved real concentration camps with actual Nazi lists of who entered and never came out, with real Nazis actually admitting and/or defending their own role in it -all while (since it never happened, right?) 2/3 of the pre-war European Jewish population just inexplicably disappeared from the planet during that same time, -just goes to show the true extent antisemitics are willing to go. (Sickeningly enough these also tend to be the very same people who have said they look forward to the day Hitler's work is finished, or bemoan the fact he didn't manage to wipe them all out and didn't do enough, or how they hope to show Jews what a real Holocaust looks like. Aside from the evil behind such statements, I always found those to be odd statements for them to even make given they are claiming it didn't happen!)

So maybe the LIE that Anne Frank's diary is a fraud is just one of those things they taught you at the school you attended. You know, right after they told you that Jews were pigs and didn't count as real human beings and that the Holocaust was a big Zionist lie.

 

[frazzledgear]

When we were kids we were forced to read the Anne Frank Diary. It was a dreadful story of a dirt rich Jewish group supposedly hiding in the upper floors of a house in Amsterdam. Page after page we read about the Jewish group fighting each other, spitting, accusing, and abusing each other. Most of us fell asleep, and we wondered why we were forced to read this dreadful story of a Jewish filthy rich group who knew nothing else but abusing each other. It would have been better they had prayed their Kol Nidre, the Kaddish, or gone to a theatre, than all this fighting. The question reminds: Why are kids forced to go through the torture of reading such garbage and of a girl with deep drug problems due to the neglect of love and comprehension from her parents? Are there no laws in existence forbidding kids from being used as suckers to make the father a millionaire?

I have a MUCH better explanation for why you could read a book that started with a 13 year old writing in 1942 "During recess I passed out cookies to my teachers and my class......" and ended nearly two years later with her last entry of "Deep down, the young are lonelier than the old.' I read this in a book somewhere and it's stuck in my mind. As far as I can tell, it's true. . . Anyone who claims that the older folks have a more difficult time in the Annex doesn't realize that the problems have a far greater impact on us. We're much too young to deal with these problems, but they keep thrusting themselves on us until, finally, we're forced to think up a solution, though most of the time our solutions crumble when faced with the facts. It's difficult in times like these: ideals, dreams, and cherished hopes rise within us, only to be crushed by grim reality. . . . It's utterly impossible for me to build my life on a foundation of chaos, suffering and death. I see the world being slowly transformed into a wilderness, I hear the approaching thunder that, one day, will destroy us too, I feel the suffering of millions." and could come away from it thinking it was just a boring story about a "filthy" rich Jew. And that explanation isn't the least bit flattering to you.

 

[AllieBaba]

Bravo.

The Diary of Anne Frank is a great work of literature, period. If we were to stop "forcing" school children to stop reading it, then it follows that we should stop "forcing" them to read Romeo & Juliet, Hamlet, Xanadu, etc.

Lest we forget, there were others who wrote about their tribulations during the Holocaust. They just weren't as well written.

BTW...I kept journals from the time I was 7. By the time I was 21, I determined I didn't want others to read them (after having assholes read them several times), and I destroyed them by the time I was 30. But they chronicled my life. My grandmother kept a journal all her life, wrote in it every day, and upon her death, my uncle took them all and burned them.

The point being, I read The Diary of Anne Frank on my own, without being forced to, and found it a moving and life altering piece of literature. So yes, it is perfectly acceptable to me that children in America be "forced" to read it as it is included in their literature curriculem.

The Hidiing Place is another example of the great Holocaust conspiracy. It isn't taught because it isn't as well written as Anne Frank's diary.

Anne Frank was a gifted girl, who wrote eloquently. The Diary is a great work of literature, not to mention history. The two combined make it worthy of being taught.

But here's Ten Boom:

Corrie ten Boom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Hiding Place is also very moving. Just not as worthy from a literary standpoint.

 

[JW Frogen]

I have often wondered about the lost works of art Anne Frank would have created had she not been at the cutting edge, the bloody front of Nazi barbarity.

But then I think, was it the stark reality of her situation that spurned her incredible writing talent?

Would she have just been a normal teen girl had the Western World not let the Nazis run wild for a time?

What I do not doubt is that she would have preferred to be a normal teen girl, that is the real horror or tyranny, the tyrant takes away the normal gifts of life from us.

 

[L.K.Eder]

So the German state forensic bureau, the Bundes Kriminal Amt [BKA] was wrong?

"The results of tests, performed at the BKA laboratories, showed that “significant” portions of the work, especially the fourth volume, were written with a ballpoint pen. Since ballpoint pens were not available before 1951, the BKA concluded those sections must have been added subsequently.

here: have fun with translating german, it is the official press release from 2006 concerning the 1980 opinion.

Polizeipresse: Bundeskriminalamt - BKA: Kriminaltechnisches Gutachten von 1980 begründet keine Zweifel an der Echtheit der Anne Frank-Tagebücher


BKA: Kriminaltechnisches Gutachten von 1980 begründet keine Zweifel an der Echtheit der Anne Frank-Tagebücher

BKA: forensic expert opinion of 1980 establishes no doubts about the authenticity of the Anne Frank diaries

 

[Sunni Man]

Of course the German and other countries officials now swear that the Anne Frank diary is genuine.

With the threat of prison hanging over their head. Plus job loss and public humiliation.

And don't forget the worst punishment of all; being labeled an anti-semite!!!

Naturally, they will proclaim the dairy authentic.

I mean, who would want to risk their whole life over telling the truth about a questionable book?

 

[DngrMse]

The Anne Frank diary has largely been proven to be a fraud.

There is evidence that portions were written AFTER her death.

Even her Father admitted in court that he had altered sections of the diary.

Yet it is still taught in schools to be a fact.

[citation needed]

Stormfront ok?

 

[Charles Stucker]

I mean, who would want to risk their whole life over telling the truth about a questionable book?

Islamic fanatics.

Now you can take your "The Support of the Anne Frank Diary is all a collusion between various powers that be because of the great insidious Illuminati conspiracy" to the conspiracy thread where it belongs.

 

[Sunni Man]

I wonder if the Anne Frank diary will become as sacred to the Jews as the Torah?

That it's authenticity cannot be questioned or debated.

Those who do, will be labeled as heretics and blasphemers and destined for hell

 

[Charles Stucker]

I wonder if the Anne Frank diary will become as sacred to the Jews as the Torah?

That it's authenticity cannot be questioned or debated.

Do you doubt the Authenticity of Samuel Pepys' diary?
His diary, written from 1660 to 1669 was not published until 1825, so obviously it is a fake to convince people that the English Monarchy was actually restored after Cromwell.
Is there anyone alive who can dispute this claim? I though not.
Thus Samuel Pepys clearly did not write any diary, it is a work of pure fiction by greedy publishers who wanted to attack (or prop up, take your choice) the English monarchy in the late regency period and make a profit doing so.
This is the same degree of sensibility as your insistence that the diary of Anne Frank must be a forgery.

 

[Sunni Man]

Do you doubt the Authenticity of Samuel Pepys' diary?
His diary, written from 1660 to 1669 was not published until 1825, so obviously it is a fake to convince people that the English Monarchy was actually restored after Cromwell.
Is there anyone alive who can dispute this claim? I though not.
Thus Samuel Pepys clearly did not write any diary, it is a work of pure fiction by greedy publishers who wanted to attack (or prop up, take your choice) the English monarchy in the late regency period and make a profit doing so.

That has always been a burning question in my mind................not!!!

 

[frazzledgear]

Of course the German and other countries officials now swear that the Anne Frank diary is genuine.

With the threat of prison hanging over their head. Plus job loss and public humiliation.

And don't forget the worst punishment of all; being labeled an anti-semite!!!

Naturally, they will proclaim the dairy authentic.

I mean, who would want to risk their whole life over telling the truth about a questionable book?

The problem is you have a NEED for her diary to be a fraud - so your CONVICTION it has be a fraud is automatically suspect -along with your "sources" claiming it to be so. I don't NEED it to be true and if it had turned out to be written by someone other than the girl who wrote it, it wouldn't have shaken my world in the least. But those with the BEST and most reliable credentials, with no agenda or NEED to have it be true or not true - have said it is HER WORK -and those people were NOT Germans, but the Dutch. The fact the Germans also say it is her work has nothing to do with their Holocaust denial laws because even if it had turned out she hadn't written it, that would NOT be denying the Holocaust took place. So the FACT that the best authorities with the best credentials, with direct access to all the original documents have said this is HER work just doesn't shake my world in the least.

But that isn't true for YOU as a Muslim though, is it? Every source that has ever claimed it to be a fake were also people with an agenda for WANTING people to believe it was a fake. YOU WANT it to be a fraud because it is the official Muslim position that it IS a fraud. And that is the real end of discussion for you. It means no amount of evidence from INFIDELS can ever possibly change your mind because Muslims are also taught that when it comes between the word of those filthy infidels and that of Muslims, Muslims are ALWAYS the ones telling the truth. No ifs, ands or buts. Which unfortunately just doesn't hold up against reality. No matter what hatred and venom they spew, no matter what lies they spread -as long as they believe doing so benefits or promotes Islam, Muslims can and do lie to the world -and to themselves. It is the same reason most Muslims will insist The Protocols of the Elders of Zion are true even though it has been REPEATEDLY and EASILY proven to be a total fake at every turn and was just blatantly plagiarized from published works of satire almost word for word that had nothing to do with Jews and was simply offered up as if Jews had written it and not as satire. The filth was written for the ignorant for the specific purpose of whipping up antisemitic fervor in order to justify further pogroms against Russian Jews.

Insisting the diary is a fake while the phony Protocols are true -is used by Muslims to teach Muslims how insidiously evil and devious Jews really are and to justify their own antisemitism. Since Muslims are taught that when it comes between the word of Muslims and that of infidels, Muslims are the automatically the ones to be telling the truth -it really means that whatever Muslims declare to be "true" is true, whatever Muslims declare to be "false" is false. No convincing evidence is even needed. AND most importantly, being taught of the infallibility of Muslims' word against any non-Muslims makes it far more difficult for other Muslims, including you - to even question whether you have really been told the truth or not. If "truth" is whatever other Muslims say it is, then questioning whether you have just been told a lie would mean you aren't a good Muslim. So you just swallow it whole without chewing.

By declaring the diary to be a fake, it fits in very well with the Muslims agenda -BOTH held out as "proof" of the real extent of the sheer evil genius of Jews no matter where they are in the world, right? And the intensity with which Muslims insist Anne Frank didn't write her own journals just goes to show there is NO WAY Muslims would allow a book to go unchallenged that actually shows a Jew in a sympathetic light. Although they have NO problem with insisting a PROVEN FAKE is true for no reason EXCEPT it fits in with their agenda of demonizing Jews and justifying their hatred.

It has to suck to have such irrational hatred as the very foundation of your religious beliefs. It means your religious beliefs cannot coexist with reality -which is why you will undoubtedly go to your grave insisting the truth is a lie and a lie is the truth. There is just no way for your mind to come to grips with the conflict it would present if you tried to accept the fact that you, as a Muslim -were and are routinely lied to by other Muslims.

 

[Sunni Man]

It has to suck to have such irrational hatred as the very foundation of your religious beliefs. It means your religious beliefs cannot coexist with reality -which is why you will undoubtedly go to your grave insisting the truth is a lie and a lie is the truth. There is just no way for your mind to come to grips with the conflict it would present if you tried to accept the fact that you, as a Muslim -were and are routinely lied to by other Muslims.

Your whole post would be just silly Frazzledgear if it wasn't so full of hatred.

I can honestly say that I have NEVER discussed the "Anne Frank Diary" or the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" with any Muslim. Nor have I ever heard them talked about at any Mosque.

Neither book has anything to do with Islam or Islamic belief.

I reached my conclusions about both books independently and with NO teaching or advice from anyone.

 

[Kalam]

Neither book has anything to do with Islam or Islamic belief.

Funny how some posters can find a way to make our religious beliefs relevant to any discussion.

 

[Sunni Man]

Ain't that the truth.

Seems like no matter what I post about. There will be someone linking it to Islam.

Sometimes I feel like, if I posted about painting my house blue or mowing my lawn.

Some Islamaphobic nitwit would post that a house painted blue was a muslim terror tactic.

Or that mowing my lawn was a jihad against the blades of grass.

 

[Toronado3800]

lol.

 

[Charles Stucker]

I reached my conclusions about both books independently and with NO teaching or advice from anyone.

Sunni, I'm trying to understand what you cannot accept about the authorship of the book.
Could you confirm, or correct these statements regarding your rationale for concluding the Diary of Anne Frank is a fraud

1 - The Author is not available for comment
2 - The publication enriched the person who provided the original document.
3 - The circumstances surrounding the document are difficult to accept.

I don't think 1 needs any elaboration, but 2 of course provides a motive for the father to falsify the document, and 3 is relative to the Nazi tendency to burn things like that.