Is it really "illegal?"

[Unkotare]

Are you an attorney?

 

[MaryL]

On the surface, it seems like a rather simple issue: Immigrate legally. Right Buddy? You aren't advocating FOR illegal activities, are you? I am sure you mean well. So do the rest of us. On your first post, you say that nobody is guilty until proven innocent, which would imply even YOU might think there is a possibility...that illegals are criminals. Or did I miss something? Anyway, I do want to segue here: The INS enforces Federal laws. Prior to 2003, it was a a branch of the the US Dept. of Justice. That should say something right there. Right now, this issue isn't as clear as it should be. Local Police officers are being advised to avoid focusing on immigration scofflaws "to enhance public safety", as "immigrant" (?) community residents might see them as deportation agents.... State law enforcement officers used to cooperate fully with federal officials. Illegal immigration IS a federal offense, but it isn't necessarily a local criminal infraction ...That is the problem here, WE all have to iron this out. I don't want cops ignoring illegal aliens and I don't want this problem of 12 million illegals swept under the rug because it's expedient politicaly or otherwise.

 

[Liability]

Are you an attorney?

Te answer which DuddlyDolt, the pussy lying skell, will never just give up is that he is clearly not a lawyer.

 

[Liability]

Will cite this each day for the benefit of people that may stumble across the thread.

Good. Do that. It's entertaining yet quite irrelevant.

It only proves that (a) a removal proceeding is civil/administrative -- a fact which was never in doubt. (b) It doesn't address the FACT that a criminal proceeding under 8 USC § 1325 is not a proceeding that takes in a civil/administrative Article II "court". (c) It highlights the fact that DuddlyDildoDolt doesn't have the first fucking clue on the topics.

WTH is this stupid, dope smoking, retard talking about? Now he's agreeing with over half of what has already been established ... except that a person can be tried for immigration RELATED crimes in federal court. Those include, but are not limited to eluding authorities, lying to authorities, marriage fraud, entrepreneur fraud, etc. Improper entry is a civil matter and tried in Immigration Court. There is nothing dishonest about what I said and it is extremely accurate.

When an alien is convicted of improper entry under 8 USC §1325, you totally transparent evasive pussy, which court conducts the trial or takes the plea?

When you finish your search for your long lost nadz, you pussy, and when you have to ultimately confront that question and forthrightly ANSWER it, you will have laid the groundwork for the refutation of your own stupid and dishonest ignorant blather.

Until then, you remain a totally exposed pussy lying quiff.

Muddle on, ya dishonest little bitch. Muddle on.

 

[Catalist]

Most illegal aliens are not monsters hell-bent on destroying our country. Most of them are normal folks trying to get along as best they can. However, they are ILLEGAL, and therefore should not be here. Pretty simple.

They are freeloaders who absorb $113,000,000,000 in taxpayer dollars for health care, education and welfare. Illegal Immigration – The $113 Billion Dollar Drain on the American Taxpayer | Illegal Immigration Statistics They have not passed a physical or mental examination, nor a criminal background check, nor have they learned English. All of this is required of legal immigrants. Deportation is the only reasonable answer.

I don't know what you mean by "Most illegal aliens are not monsters hell-bent on destroying our country....." But this graphic is from La Raza the largest registered lobby of Mexicans for immigration to the United States. They want to make the U. S. border States a province of Mexico known as Aztlan part by force. The United States paid Mexico $18,000,000 after the Mexican American War and forgave Mexico its debts in the 1840s for our southern border as it now stands. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't this graphic look just a little bit treasonous to you?

We already have 12,000,000 foreign invaders on our soil.
I would call that a matter for concern wouldn't you?​

I just checked out your link. According to the comments at the bottom, it states:

The report cited is produced by FAIR, or Federation for Immigration Reform. This group is an advocacy group, in other words, they are not fair at all. Every report they produce is intended to support their point of view, so you have to take the numbers they produce with a heavy dose of salt.

Here is a non-opinionated report by a non-advocacy news reporting organization, Colorado Public News:

http://www.cpt12.org/news/index.php...eportation-after-traffic-stop-in-arapahoe-cou

Whoa, wait a minute. You're making this too easy. "FAIR" is part of an conglomeration of organizations started by John Tanton. I've mentioned him several times in the course of this thread.

1. Tanton solicited and received over $1. 2 million from the Pioneer Fund for FAIR. The Pioneer Fund is a foundation that has a history of promoting the genetic superiority of white, European-Americans.

2. Tanton is an advocate of eugenics, the “science” of race betterment. Tanton has written on the subject stating, “Hitler’s reign in Nazi Germany did little to advance the discussion of eugenics among sensitive persons.”

3. In 1993, Tanton wrote, “I’ve come to the point of view that for European-American society and culture to persist requires a European-American majority, and a clear one at that.”

4. Tanton runs a publishing organization, the Social Contract Press. Tanton’s publishing arm reprinted the novel The Camp of the Saints, a racist book which tells the tale of immigrants from the east who come to France and destroy western civilization.

5. The Social Contract Press produces a quarterly journal, The Social Contact, which has published numerous white nationalists such as Wayne Lutton, Peter Gemma, and the late Sam Francis.

6. Tanton has had a long relationship with numerous white nationalists such as Jared Taylor, founder of American Renaissance, and notorious ant-Semite Kevin MacDonald.

7. Tanton is affiliated with individuals who are associated with Council of Conservative Citizens, a white nationalist organization that has called African Americans a “retrograde species of humanity.” Wayne Lutton, Tanton’s “right hand man” and Roy Beck, the former Washington editor of The Social Contract, have both spoken at Council of Conservative Citizens annual conferences.

8. In a 1996 letter, Tanton wrote, “Do we leave it to individuals to decide that they are the intelligent ones who should have more kids? And more troublesome, what about the less intelligent, who logically should have less? Who is going to break the bad news [to less intelligent individuals], and how will it be implemented?”

9. In 1995 correspondence to Harry Weyher (former president of the white supremacist Pioneer Fund) on racial eugenics, Tanton questions the sexuality of Asian men by claiming that “Male Orientals are less well equipped than those of some other groups.”

10. In a 1995 memo, Tanton wrote about his thoughts on European hate crimes laws, stating, “These have generally been pushed by Jewish interests who are offended by those who have challenged the received version of the Holocaust.”

The bottom line is that Tanton is a white nationalist. He was the adviser for David Duke, the nazi turned Klansman back in the late 70s and early 80s. I remember the guy quite well AND know why he would dabble in what you and the cheering section will rally around as manna from Heaven.

I read the comments and concur that much of what is on that site is pure fantasy and manufactured statistics.

Let me make this very simple for you. If the total cost of illegal immigrants to the U. S. taxpayer were $1, it would be too much.

Now, I could dig, and I have in the past produced estimates that illegals cost taxpayers twice as much as $113,000,000,000 per year. If you reject my figure, come up with your own estimate.

Frankly, you sound like some "illegal friendly" who just wants us to throw money at a group of people who can not control their birth rate and are spilling over into our country. We have been too generous in giving guest workers jobs, and now these illegals think they are entitled to a piece of the pie. They are freeloaders pure and simple, and this is a law enforcement question, so put your human rights blanket away. Deportation is the answer in most countries of the world, because where illegals move, slums follow.

Show us the links so I can shred them. What is your estimate?

This is a treasonous proposition, and must be dealt with accordingly.​

 

[OpenJumper1]

from USCIS.gov

INA: ACT 211- DOCUMENTARY REQUIREMENTS


Sec. 211. [8 U.S.C. 1181]

(a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and subsection (c) no immigrant shall be admitted into the United States unless at the time of application for admission he (1) has a valid unexpired immigrant visa or was born subsequent to the issuance of such visa of the accompanying parent, and (2) presents a valid unexpired passport or other suitable travel document, or document of identity and nationality, if such document is required under the regulations issued by the Attorney General. With respect to immigrants to be admitted under quotas of quota areas prior to June 30, 1968, no immigrant visa shall be deemed valid unless the immigrant is properly chargeable to the quota area under the quota of which the visa is issued.

(b) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 212(a)(7)(A) of this Act in such cases or in such classes of cases and under such conditions as may be by regulations prescribed, returning resident immigrants, defined in section 101(a)(27)(A) , who are otherwise admissible may be readmitted to the United States by the Attorney General in his discretion without being required to obtain a passport, immigrant visa, reentry permit or other documentation.

(c) The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to an alien whom the Attorney General admits to the United States under section 207.


Improper entry: read the words, Improper entry means entry without documents or proof of pending immigration status

also look up 1986 US immigration bill which is supposed to still be good to this day.

 

[Liability]

from USCIS.gov

INA: ACT 211- DOCUMENTARY REQUIREMENTS


Sec. 211. [8 U.S.C. 1181]

(a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and subsection (c) no immigrant shall be admitted into the United States unless at the time of application for admission he (1) has a valid unexpired immigrant visa or was born subsequent to the issuance of such visa of the accompanying parent, and (2) presents a valid unexpired passport or other suitable travel document, or document of identity and nationality, if such document is required under the regulations issued by the Attorney General. With respect to immigrants to be admitted under quotas of quota areas prior to June 30, 1968, no immigrant visa shall be deemed valid unless the immigrant is properly chargeable to the quota area under the quota of which the visa is issued.

(b) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 212(a)(7)(A) of this Act in such cases or in such classes of cases and under such conditions as may be by regulations prescribed, returning resident immigrants, defined in section 101(a)(27)(A) , who are otherwise admissible may be readmitted to the United States by the Attorney General in his discretion without being required to obtain a passport, immigrant visa, reentry permit or other documentation.

(c) The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to an alien whom the Attorney General admits to the United States under section 207.


Improper entry: read the words, Improper entry means entry without documents or proof of pending immigration status

also look up 1986 US immigration bill which is supposed to still be good to this day.

Just read 8 USC § 1325(a).

IF, unlike that stupid lying fuckwit piece of shit, DuddleyDolt, you understand the meaning of words and don't mind being honest about them, then there is already no doubt on Earth that improper entry is a crime.

 

[BuddyColt]

On the surface, it seems like a rather simple issue: Immigrate legally. Right Buddy? You aren't advocating FOR illegal activities, are you? I am sure you mean well. So do the rest of us. On your first post, you say that nobody is guilty until proven innocent, which would imply even YOU might think there is a possibility...that illegals are criminals. Or did I miss something? Anyway, I do want to segue here: The INS enforces Federal laws. Prior to 2003, it was a a branch of the the US Dept. of Justice. That should say something right there. Right now, this issue isn't as clear as it should be. Local Police officers are being advised to avoid focusing on immigration scofflaws "to enhance public safety", as "immigrant" (?) community residents might see them as deportation agents.... State law enforcement officers used to cooperate fully with federal officials. Illegal immigration IS a federal offense, but it isn't necessarily a local criminal infraction ...That is the problem here, WE all have to iron this out. I don't want cops ignoring illegal aliens and I don't want this problem of 12 million illegals swept under the rug because it's expedient politicaly or otherwise.

MaryL. I don't know what you're getting at, so hear me out and please read everything here. It will be WELL worth your time.

In a de jure (lawful) constitutional Republic such as we are guaranteed in the Constitution, every person is presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by a jury of their peers.

This is something we don't want to do for people that are being labeled as "illegal" aliens. The first problem here is that repeating a lie can make it appear true. For instance, the liberals call semi automatic firearms "assault weapons." In reality an assault weapon is a firearm capable of semi automatic and fully automatic fire. A semi auto look-a-like rifle is simply NOT an assault weapon, but the lie has set precedents that have made life a living hell for a lot of people.

Ditto for immigration. I went to work for an immigration law office because I had to get all sides of the issue. What I've stated on this thread is not my opinion, it is the way the law is interpreted and enforced. The Executive Office for Immigration Review reviews, interprets the statutes and applies the laws in regards to the immigration laws. It is overseen by the Attorney General, appointed by the president and working within the Dept. of Justice.

The problem here is that immigration is not illegal; it is only improper. We demand a "proper" way to enter, but for MILLIONS, we do not provide that proper mechanism. Let me explain:

We have a host of visas. All of the specify a type of person they apply to (temporary agricultural worker, student, etc.):

Types of Visas for Temporary Visitors

For MILLIONS those visas don't apply. So, the Guest Worker must either LIE or they simply cross the border and work. The visa system is half a century old and simply doesn't anticipate the reasons people come here. Furthermore, those people do NOT want to become citizens. I know this is hard to understand, but the Hispanics do not have a comprehension of our laws that you could relate to.

In Mexico, for example, avoiding the cops and playing games is a cost of doing business. The Mexican government prints comic books, teaching the Hispanics how to avoid detection by our authorities. Once here, avoiding the system and having to pay the fines is just a game, not the kind of activity that rises to "criminal" intent. So, how do we handle the issue? The way you answer that is to answer what happened in the past. That kind of testifies against my critics on this board. So, let me repeat something to you:

Several months ago talk show host, Neal Boortz, told his audience about a historical study he did. Boortz divided our nation's history into NINE time periods of 25 years (from the start of our nation to the current time.) Each of those 25 year periods represents the working lifetime of a person.

According to Boortz, he credited the Republicans and their tax initiatives for America's most prosperous of those time periods. And Boortz said that between 1982 and 2007 was the time period when America had the most jobs, we made the most money, paid the fewest taxes and had the most in assets.

In 1986, Newswatch Magazine reported that, according to official immigration authorities, the United States had an estimated 10 MILLION people in the United States without papers AND an additional TWO MILLION coming in each year. AND between 1986 and 2000, the United States granted SEVEN AMNESTIES!

What I want to know is HOW did the United States have its most prosperous years in an era where we started out with 10 MILLION people here without papers, two million more entering annually, 10 percent unemployment, "open borders," AND SEVEN AMNESTIES and lived the best years of our lives and reduced unemployment by more than 50 percent? BTW, the relative numbers haven't changed in population growth nor in the numbers of people here without papers. Okay guys, we need an answer."

Despite all the numbers, the number of undocumented Guest Workers has not changed dramatically in a quarter of a century. It should tell you: they don't want to become citizens. So, why not create that class of Guest Workers without an automatic path to citizenship and those who come here, so with the knowledge that they nor any potential child will automatically become a U.S. citizen? Why this constant pissing match with allegations "they broke our laws" when the evidence is, they never intended to break any freaking law. According to the Socialist Security Administration, 75 percent of those in the U.S. without papers apply for Taxpayer Identification Numbers and pay the taxes. If they're willingly paying taxes and they don't have a criminal record, where is the proof they intended to break a law?

WE hang a Welcome mat out that invites the poor here; we talk this game about Liberty and unalienable Rights, but once we take people up on the offer, we have National Socialists pitching a hissy fit with the inference that only citizens are due unalienable Rights. You can't stop immigrants from coming. You can pass draconian laws that will ultimately result in tyranny followed by amnesty, but you cannot stop immigration.

The better avenue is to regulate it. The methods being used today are costing the lives of people on YOUR side of this issue. I should know. I came from YOUR side of the political fence and nearly lost my life due to one of those laws the anti - immigrants passed... and you cannot understand that bad laws that cost lives motivate me to speak out. Look, if you want to petition Congress and declare war against Mexico, more power to you. If you want to take my Liberties or the Liberties of others, I will fight you to the bitter end - and I don't give a damn who the other group is I have to defend nor whether I like them or not.

 

[tjvh]

According to the GOP walking across a border is equal to killing someone

Thanks for writing the stupidest post of the day. Nice job.

 

[BuddyColt]

also look up 1986 US immigration bill which is supposed to still be good to this day.

The Simpson-Mazzoli Bill applies to employers that hire undocumented workers and it gave an amnesty to agricultural workers. It has exactly NOTHING to do with improper entry.

Improper Entry is NOT in the Criminal Code of the USC. It is wholly an administrative matter before a civil forum.

 

[BuddyColt]

Let me make this very simple for you. If the total cost of illegal immigrants to the U. S. taxpayer were $1, it would be too much.

Now, I could dig, and I have in the past produced estimates that illegals cost taxpayers twice as much as $113,000,000,000 per year. If you reject my figure, come up with your own estimate.

Frankly, you sound like some "illegal friendly" who just wants us to throw money at a group of people who can not control their birth rate and are spilling over into our country. We have been too generous in giving guest workers jobs, and now these illegals think they are entitled to a piece of the pie. They are freeloaders pure and simple, and this is a law enforcement question, so put your human rights blanket away. Deportation is the answer in most countries of the world, because where illegals move, slums follow.

Show us the links so I can shred them. What is your estimate?

This is a treasonous proposition, and must be dealt with accordingly.​

I'll make this simple for you:

The John Tanton conglomeration has come up with figures as high as $200 Billion in terms of "cost." Even if those figures were true (and you know they are not), it's a hell of lot less costly than the TRILLIONS of dollars spent in creating the ultimate POLICE STATE... creation of the Dept. of Homeland (IN) Security, doubling the size of the BATFE and giving them unlimited jurisdiction, passage of the so - called "Patriot Act," National ID / REAL ID Act, the National Defense Authorization Act, etc., etc.

If you want to debate me, I can send you a link to a REAL debate forum. There won't be the endless is to, is not bullshit you find here. You make your point; I make mine, those points are challenged and then you move on. No name calling, no personality contests, no fancy fonts and pics. We could have a real debate and let the people decide.

You won't do it. Chris Simcox and Jim Gilchrist passed on that opportunity as did J.T. Ready and every representative of the Minutemen and their offshoots. Nobody with actual experience is naive enough to take me on in an actual debate. You might create the "illusion" of a "win" on this board with the number of people that post bullshit over and over instead of making their point and moving on. They believe that everybody here is too stupid to read the posts and let them stand on their own merits. If you're up for the challenge, I will take you on in a REAL debate forum. PM sent...

 

[starcraftzzz]

According to the GOP walking across a border is equal to killing someone

Thanks for writing the stupidest post of the day. Nice job.

and thanks for being a retard it helps soce3ity out so much to pitty you

 

[BuddyColt]

According to the GOP walking across a border is equal to killing someone

Thanks for writing the stupidest post of the day. Nice job.

The GOP did flip on immigration on recent years and pass bills that seek nothing short of the death penalty for a civil infraction of the law. Look at the GOP flag wavers on this thread. They cannot understand that Title 18 of the USC is the Criminal Code and that civil statutes do not impose criminal penalties, but rather call upon Title 18 to impose the criminal penalty.

 

[Liability]

According to the GOP walking across a border is equal to killing someone

Thanks for writing the stupidest post of the day. Nice job.

The GOP did flip on immigration on recent years and pass bills that seek nothing short of the death penalty for a civil infraction of the law. Look at the GOP flag wavers on this thread. They cannot understand that Title 18 of the USC is the Criminal Code and that civil statutes do not impose criminal penalties, but rather call upon Title 18 to impose the criminal penalty.

The GOP did flip on immigration on recent years and pass bills that seek nothing short of the death penalty for a civil infraction of the law.

-- ^ a compound lie from a scumbag liar.

The reality is: the GOP did not pass ANY bills seeking the death penalty or anything close to it for the CRIME of improper entry.

Asshole lying fuckwit pussies -- like DuddleyDolt -- cannot admit that 8 USC § 1325 is absolutely a criminal statute -- as ESTABLISHED conclusively by the FACT that it provides for CRIMINAL sanctions (jail and prison). And many many criminal statutes refer to Title 18 for the criminal penalties -- since that is the criminal penalty Title of the law.

For example (not that it will matter to DuddleyDolt, since he ignores or intentionally lies about all things which prove him to be flatly wrong): 21 U.S.C. § 841 : US Code - Section 841: "Prohibited acts A" spells out the Federal crimes of manufacturing, distributing, or dispensing, or possessing with intent to manufacture, distribute, or dispense, a controlled substance, etc. And, man, does it ever criminalize such conduct.

NONETHELESS, that Title of the United States Code ALSO refers to TITLE 18 for purposes of addressing SENTENCING.

 

[High_Gravity]

Duddleydolt keeps posting lies and Liability keeps slapping the shit out of him, I think duddleydolt likes the abuse.

 

[Liability]

Duddleydolt keeps posting lies and Liability keeps slapping the shit out of him, I think duddleydolt likes the abuse.

Ewww. DuddleyDolt is a masochist and is getting all aroused?

 

[High_Gravity]

Duddleydolt keeps posting lies and Liability keeps slapping the shit out of him, I think duddleydolt likes the abuse.

Ewww. DuddleyDolt is a masochist and is getting all aroused?

More than likely yes, the clown is also a stone cold racist, you should see him proudly repping his KKK Sheets in William Joyce's thread about whites being a minority on the racism board.

 

[Liability]

Duddleydolt keeps posting lies and Liability keeps slapping the shit out of him, I think duddleydolt likes the abuse.

Ewww. DuddleyDolt is a masochist and is getting all aroused?

More than likely yes, the clown is also a stone cold racist, you should see him proudly repping his KKK Sheets in William Joyce's thread about whites being a minority on the racism board.

WHU? Whites a MINORITY?!?!

Oh nozies!

Sound the ALARMS.

 

[High_Gravity]

Ewww. DuddleyDolt is a masochist and is getting all aroused?

More than likely yes, the clown is also a stone cold racist, you should see him proudly repping his KKK Sheets in William Joyce's thread about whites being a minority on the racism board.

WHU? Whites a MINORITY?!?!

Oh nozies!

Sound the ALARMS.

The guy is a fuckin fraud and can't be taken seriously, next we'll see him in a 52nd Street thread repping Black Power.

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

Wow, there sure are a lot of words here to try and tell us why the term "illegal alien" is wrong and why we are being so bad and hateful to those who come here "illegally". Here's the bottom line.

It comes down to a question of sovereignty. Does the United States of America have the right and I say the DUTY to maintain it's sovereignty by saying who can enter it's borders and who cannot? Can you name one nation on this earth that maintains open borders to the magnitude that this nation does? Does this nation have the right and again, I say the DUTY to KNOW who enters it's borders and for what purposes? I say it does and if the law is not clear, then it should be made absolutely, crystal clear that those who try and enter this nation without going through the proper procedures will be PROSECUTED.

I am not intimately familiar with the federal laws that govern immigration and entry into this nation. However, I know that literally thousands of illegal aliens are rounded up every year and shipped out of the country. I would assume that if there were no laws governing this action, that the Supreme Court would have stopped it long ago. I support these actions and I also support the closing of the border by placing troops there.

As for those on this thread that talk about how conservatives and Republicans are simply racist and or xenophobic, it's the same that we always hear. The left's attempt to belittle or marginalize an opposing viewpoint always resorts to name calling and grouping those with opposing viewpoints into groups so they can affix negative labels to them. "If you do not agree with me, then obviously you are a __________ (fill in the blank)." Boring, predictable, and shock labels just cheapen the labels themselves. I wouldn't vote for a conservative or a Republican who hasn't been called a "racist" for disagreeing with Barry or for wanting immigration laws and policies followed.

The United States of America is a nation of immigrants. I want it to continue to be a nation of immigrants... LEGAL IMMIGRANTS! And when someone enters this country without the proper documentation, you know what I call them? ILLEGAL ALIENS! Because they are...