Is it possible that the allegorical account of a great flood is true?

[ding]

Yes, it is 1500 gigatons of ice.

4 km sea level drop ... sound bogus to me ... why do you think this is credible? ...

I think it is hilarious that you have calculated that 1500 gigatons of ice would equal a 4 km drop in sea levels.

I don't know where you screwed up because I never looked but you were only off by 9 orders of magnitude.

Maybe you should ask FortFun to help you with your 8th grade math.

 

[ding]

I really do hate the metric system because it leads to idiots thinking 1500 gigatons of ice equals 4 km of sea level drop.

 

[ding]

1.5 x 10^18 kg ÷ 1 x 10^6 kg/m^3 = 1.5 x 10^12 m^3
1.5 x 10^12 m^3 ÷ 3.6 x 10^8 m^2 = 4.2 x 10^3 m ≈ 4 kilometers sea level drop

So where do you believe you made your error?

Because I can't even begin to decipher what you are trying to do with this fucked up calculation.

 

[ding]

4 km sea level drop ... sound bogus to me ... why do you think this is credible? ...

Where did I state that exactly? Are you confusing me with someone else?

You keep saying 1,500 gigatons of ice ... that's the mass of the top 4 km of all the world's oceans ... 8th grade math ...

Let's calculate the mass of the top 4 km of all the world's oceans, shall we? let's do some 8th grade math.

Surface area of the oceans is 139.4 x 10^6 mi²

Converting mi² to ft² we get 139.4 x 10^6 mi² x 5280 ft/mi x 5280 ft/mi = 3.886 x 10^15 ft²

What is the volume of the top 4 km of all the world's oceans?

1 km = 3280.8399 ft

4 km x 3280.8399 ft/km = 13,123.4 ft

3.886 x 10^15 ft² x 13,123.4 ft = 5.0997 x 10^19 CF

What is the mass of the top 4 km of all the world's oceans?

Density of water is 62.37 lbm/cf

5.0997 x 10^19 CF x 62.37 ibm/cf = 3.1807 x 10^21 lbm

How many gigatons is the mass of the top 4 km of all the world's oceans?

1 gigaton = 2.2046 x 10^12 lbm

3.1807 x 10^21 lbm / 2.2046 x 10^12 gigaton/lbm = 1.443 x 10^9 gigatons

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Nah, you're just blowing smoke, As you always do.

Looks to me like you're the one doing that.

Yes, really. Do you realize how small that site was in 8000 years ago? Do you realize it was a monument then, and not a large settlement? The point, of course, is that the collections of humans were relatively quite small and did not do much communicating over large distances. If you want to be silly and argue with that, knock yourself out.

Really? How small was it? How many people would it have taken to build the monument of massive stones in the pre-pottery phase? Did they require any food, clothing, or tools, being made while they carved and moved those monument stones? Prove to me that they didn't communicate over large distances. Since you think you know please do share with us your massive intellectual abundance of knowledge.

If westwall is correct about sea level, and I personally think he is

Which just makes you both wrong, as I already demonstrated.

Or that you're a idiot.

Where did the people who made it learn their trade?

A silly question. Where did the people who taught them learn? And the people before that? Someone invented "the trade" (which was, cutting stones with other stones). Furthermore, you seem to have an awfully exaggerated version of what that site was like 8000 years ago. Again,. I suggest you read your own links.

I have read my link. Seems to me you're incapable of considering the magnitude of what it would take to create a monument such as this in a neolithic culture. But then that's not surprising considering who you are.

How would you know what they knew?

Are you joking? How would I know... what environment humans lived in? Because... it was on planet Earth. Stop being silly.

Which doesn't address the question as usual since you're incapable of understanding the implications even if they're presented to you.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[alang1216]

Assuming everything you said about the event actually happened, and the vapor fell as rain, how much do you think it would have raised the global sea level? 1 foot, 100 feet, 10,000 feet? Even if it were 10,000 feet there are large portions of the earth that would not have been submerged.

I don’t believe it would have raised the sea level. It wasn’t the sea level rise that caused the flooding. It was the runoff of the rain that caused the flooding. Just as all other floods do. Too much rain over too short of a period is what causes floods.

Such floods usually occur in flat, low-lying areas, floodplains. It's hard to envision a scenario where ALL living animals are destroyed.

Again... an allegorical account that happened thousands of years before it was recorded in writing.

You seem to be arguing both sides here, that the Bible is historically and scientifically accurate AND that it is allegorical. I can't be both so which is it?

It only seems that way to you because you aren't interested in the truth. So you look for things to nit pick.

The first five books of the Bible (known as the Torah) were written by Moses - an adopted son of the king of Egypt - in approximately 1400 B.C.. These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Torah records the history that all nations have in common. These allegorical accounts of the history of the world had been passed down from generation to generation orally for thousands of years. Moses did not really write the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Moses was the first Hebrew to record them.

Approximately 800 years before Moses recorded the allegorical accounts of the history of the world. The Chinese recorded this history as symbols in the Chinese language. They drew pictures to express words or ideas. Simple pictures were combined to make more complex thoughts. They used well known history and common everyday things to make a word so people could easily remember it. The account of Genesis found it's way into the Chinese written language because the Chinese had migrated from the cradle of civilization. Prior to this migration they all shared a common history and religion.

The Bible even explains how it was possible for the Chinese to record the account of Genesis 800 years before Moses recorded it. The account of the Tower of Babel was the allegorical account of the great migration from Mesopotamia. This also explains why all ancient cultures have an account of a great flood. Because they all shared a common history and religion before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

So if we start from the belief that the first eleven chapters of the Torah are an allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia - which was an actual historical event - then the first eleven chapters of the Torah takes on new meaning. Seen in this light these accounts should be viewed less like fairy tales and more like how important information was passed down in ancient times. Just as the Chinese used well known history and everyday things as symbols in their written language to make words easier to remember, ancient man used stories to pass down historical events and important knowledge to future generations. Interspersed in these allegorical accounts of history are wisdoms that they deemed important enough to pass down and remember. Such as man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he didn't do wrong. Most people don't even realize this wisdom is in the Torah because they read it critically instead of searching for the wisdom that ancient man knew and found important enough to include in his account of world history.

We have to keep in mind that these accounts are at least 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. We shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from these events that we have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts which are at least 6,000 years old. We read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make ourselves feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom.

So, a great flood did happen. It was caused by an asteroid strike in the northern polar region. It probably happened 12,000 years ago. The energy released was equivalent to 700 gigatons of TNT and instantly vaporized 1500 gigatons of ice into the atmosphere which caused global wide disruptions in the weather patterns and caused massive amounts of rain around the globe. The science is staring you in the face. You just don't like it because it confirms the account of a great flood.

So you're saying there was global flooding in the past but the ark was allegorical? You also say that mankind began in the Middle East and spread to everywhere on the globe from there but the Tower of Babel was allegorical? Do I have that right? You realize there is not a lot of physical evidence for either.

What was God's role in all this? Did He send the asteroid and confuse languages to punish mankind?

 

[ReinyDays]

Oops ...

Your physics is still wrong ... [sticks tongue out] ...

Where does the 1,500 gigaton number come from? ... a source you've already admitted is wrong ...

 

[ding]

I don’t believe it would have raised the sea level. It wasn’t the sea level rise that caused the flooding. It was the runoff of the rain that caused the flooding. Just as all other floods do. Too much rain over too short of a period is what causes floods.

Such floods usually occur in flat, low-lying areas, floodplains. It's hard to envision a scenario where ALL living animals are destroyed.

Again... an allegorical account that happened thousands of years before it was recorded in writing.

You seem to be arguing both sides here, that the Bible is historically and scientifically accurate AND that it is allegorical. I can't be both so which is it?

It only seems that way to you because you aren't interested in the truth. So you look for things to nit pick.

The first five books of the Bible (known as the Torah) were written by Moses - an adopted son of the king of Egypt - in approximately 1400 B.C.. These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Torah records the history that all nations have in common. These allegorical accounts of the history of the world had been passed down from generation to generation orally for thousands of years. Moses did not really write the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Moses was the first Hebrew to record them.

Approximately 800 years before Moses recorded the allegorical accounts of the history of the world. The Chinese recorded this history as symbols in the Chinese language. They drew pictures to express words or ideas. Simple pictures were combined to make more complex thoughts. They used well known history and common everyday things to make a word so people could easily remember it. The account of Genesis found it's way into the Chinese written language because the Chinese had migrated from the cradle of civilization. Prior to this migration they all shared a common history and religion.

The Bible even explains how it was possible for the Chinese to record the account of Genesis 800 years before Moses recorded it. The account of the Tower of Babel was the allegorical account of the great migration from Mesopotamia. This also explains why all ancient cultures have an account of a great flood. Because they all shared a common history and religion before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

So if we start from the belief that the first eleven chapters of the Torah are an allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia - which was an actual historical event - then the first eleven chapters of the Torah takes on new meaning. Seen in this light these accounts should be viewed less like fairy tales and more like how important information was passed down in ancient times. Just as the Chinese used well known history and everyday things as symbols in their written language to make words easier to remember, ancient man used stories to pass down historical events and important knowledge to future generations. Interspersed in these allegorical accounts of history are wisdoms that they deemed important enough to pass down and remember. Such as man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he didn't do wrong. Most people don't even realize this wisdom is in the Torah because they read it critically instead of searching for the wisdom that ancient man knew and found important enough to include in his account of world history.

We have to keep in mind that these accounts are at least 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. We shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from these events that we have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts which are at least 6,000 years old. We read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make ourselves feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom.

So, a great flood did happen. It was caused by an asteroid strike in the northern polar region. It probably happened 12,000 years ago. The energy released was equivalent to 700 gigatons of TNT and instantly vaporized 1500 gigatons of ice into the atmosphere which caused global wide disruptions in the weather patterns and caused massive amounts of rain around the globe. The science is staring you in the face. You just don't like it because it confirms the account of a great flood.

So you're saying there was global flooding in the past but the ark was allegorical? You also say that mankind began in the Middle East and spread to everywhere on the globe from there but the Tower of Babel was allegorical? Do I have that right? You realize there is not a lot of physical evidence for either.

What was God's role in all this? Did He send the asteroid and confuse languages to punish mankind?

C’mon man. Saying there was a great migration from Mesopotamia which happens to be called the cradle of civilization does not mean mankind began in the ME.

What part of they used allegory to make it easier to remember and pass down information did you not understand? Why are you trying to find something to not pick? Rather than reading these accounts critically, why aren’t you trying to discern what lessons and knowledge they were trying to pass down? Is it that important to you to know if there was an actual ark? And that people used a boat to save human and animal lives? Because I’m sure some did. Wouldn’t you? But instead you keep reading these passages literally to justify your biases.

So it doesn’t appear that you have it right. Here’s a suggestion why don’t you ask me what I am saying instead of trying to guess what I am saying. It takes too long to correct your guesses.

how much physical evidence are you expecting for events that occurred thousands of years ago? Are you telling me that you don’t believe there was a migration from Mesopotamia to other parts of the world? C’mon man.

 

[ding]

Oops ...

Your physics is still wrong ... [sticks tongue out] ...

Where does the 1,500 gigaton number come from? ... a source you've already admitted is wrong ...

Says the guy who can’t do 8th grade math.

no, the physics is spot on. They used the measured size of the crater to determine the volume displaced and then they used the volume displaced to calculate the energy of the event that explained what I just wrote.

I even provided the excerpt from the peer reviewed scientific paper that was published on this that proves that was how they did it.

now would you like to tell me the error you made when your answer was off by 9 orders of magnitude?

 

[ding]

.. a source you've already admitted is wrong ...

The article that referenced the peer reviewed scientific paper was wrong about the energy not the volume of ice that was displaced.

the published paper which was peer reviewed wasn’t wrong. They based the volume displaced on the measured size of the crater. Which calculated 1500 gigatons of displacement. The 1500 gigatons of displacement was used to calculate the 700 giga tons of tnt required to vaporize 1500 gigatons of ice.

 

[james bond]

So you're saying there was global flooding in the past but the ark was allegorical? You also say that mankind began in the Middle East and spread to everywhere on the globe from there but the Tower of Babel was allegorical? Do I have that right? You realize there is not a lot of physical evidence for either.

What was God's role in all this? Did He send the asteroid and confuse languages to punish mankind?

First, ding doesn't know science nor understand Archimedes Principle. There are hundreds of gigatons of ice melting at the poles due to warming cycles and no global flood. It's evidence for God as he promised no more global floods.

Second, Noah's flood was real and it happened around 2458 BC. None of Genesis is allegorical. It happened the way the Bible is written. Creation was in seven days. While Noah and his family were building the ark as instructed by God, he tried to get people to repent, i.e. change their minds, but to no avail. It's the same as with ding and others here. They'll continue to believe what they want to believe.

With the global flood, it first rained for forty days and forty nights. During that time, the fountains of the deep rose up as mountains underneath the seas rose up and the water inside the Earth came rising up quickly. More evidence for God are the subterranean oceans that came forth. There is also some who believe there was a canopy of water in the sky that was created on the second day. This would add to the water. Eventually, the water covered the mountain tops and highest peaks. It covered Mt. Everest and the Himalayas because they weren't as high as today; they rose up as fountains of the deep. More evidence that the past was different from the present.

https://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c010.html

Noah's ark drifted for 150 days while every plant, animal, and human were killed. The fact is a flood is one of the natural disasters that will kill the most people. More evidence for God. The God sent a wind to the ark and then for another 150 days the water steadily went down. Where did the water go? It went here -- https://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-floodwater.html.

Noah was instructed by God to send out a raven, which flew back and forth but could find no place to land. How did Noah know? It did not return. Next, he sent out a dove, which came back. A few days later, he sent it out again and the second time came back with an olive leaf in its beak. It symbolized peace. A few more days and Noah sent it out a third time and this time it did not return. It had found a safe place to live and that is where Noah headed. If you know about birds and their behaviors, then this is more evidence of God. Look up how Vikings used to navigate their ships.

Noah and his family ended up on land, but waited until God commanded him to leave the ark, along with his family, and all the animals. They had been on the ark over a year. As soon as he stepped on dry land, Noah built an altar of stones and offered sacrifices to God to give thanks. God made a covenant with Noah to never send another flood to destroy the entire world and marked it with a rainbow. Noah and his sons received the command from God to be fruitful and multiply. Before the Flood, people ate only vegetables. I suppose one could argue they were vegan, but not in the same context as today. After the flood, God gave Noah and his family permission to eat meat from animals. The water of the Flood symbolized baptism. Just as the Flood washed away evil and gave the world a fresh start, baptism cleanses a person for entry into a new life. This may hold to some who have repented, but sin remained and we are ending up like it was before. Will people become so evil that innocent people are in danger? I don't think so. We have nuclear weapons and guns to protect ourselves now. The danger will probably come from those who do not believe in God, i.e. without God, or end up being like God in their thinking and attitude. The last part is just my opinion.

 

[ding]

So you're saying there was global flooding in the past but the ark was allegorical? You also say that mankind began in the Middle East and spread to everywhere on the globe from there but the Tower of Babel was allegorical? Do I have that right? You realize there is not a lot of physical evidence for either.

What was God's role in all this? Did He send the asteroid and confuse languages to punish mankind?

First, ding doesn't know science nor understand Archimedes Principle. There are hundreds of gigatons of ice melting at the poles due to warming cycles and no global flood. It's evidence for God as he promised no more global floods.

Second, Noah's flood was real and it happened around 2458 BC. None of Genesis is allegorical. It happened the way the Bible is written. Creation was in seven days. While Noah and his family were building the ark as instructed by God, he tried to get people to repent, i.e. change their minds, but to no avail. It's the same as with ding and others here. They'll continue to believe what they want to believe.

With the global flood, it first rained for forty days and forty nights. During that time, the fountains of the deep rose up as mountains underneath the seas rose up and the water inside the Earth came rising up quickly. More evidence for God are the subterranean oceans that came forth. There is also some who believe there was a canopy of water in the sky that was created on the second day. This would add to the water. Eventually, the water covered the mountain tops and highest peaks. It covered Mt. Everest and the Himalayas because they weren't as high as today. More evidence that the past was different from the present.

https://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c010.html

Noah's ark drifted for 150 days while every plant, animal, and human were killed. The fact is a flood is one of the natural disasters that will kill the most people. More evidence for God. The God sent a wind to the ark and then for another 150 days the water steadily went down. Where did the water go? It went here -- https://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-floodwater.html.

Noah was instructed by God to send out a raven, which flew back and forth but could find no place to land. How did Noah know? It did not return. Next, he sent out a dove, which came back. A few days later, he sent it out again and the second time came back with an olive leaf in its beak. It symbolized peace. A few more days and Noah sent it out a third time and this time it did not return. It had found a safe place to live and that is where Noah headed. If you know about birds and their behaviors, then this is more evidence of God. Look up how Vikings used to navigate their ships.

Noah and his family ended up on land, but waited until God commanded him to leave the ark, along with his family, and all the animals. They had been on the ark over a year. As soon as he stepped on dry land, Noah built an altar of stones and offered sacrifices to God to give thanks. God made a covenant with Noah to never send another flood to destroy the entire world and marked it with a rainbow. Noah and his sons received the command from God to be fruitful and multiply. Before the Flood, people ate only vegetables. I suppose one could argue they were vegan, but not in the same context as today. After the flood, God gave Noah and his family permission to eat meat from animals. The water of the Flood symbolized baptism. Just as the Flood washed away evil and gave the world a fresh start, baptism cleanses a person for entry into a new life. This may to some who have repented, but sin remained and we are ending up like it was before. Will people become so evil that innocent people are in danger? I don't think so. We have nuclear weapons and guns to protect ourselves now. The danger will probably come from those who do not believe in God, i.e. without God, or end up being like God in their thinking and attitude.

Dude, I’ve been a practicing engineer for 35 years. Engineering is the commercial application of science, so I am pretty sure I am qualified to discuss science.

you on the other hand are a religious nutjob who reads the Bible literally and believes the earth and universe were created 6000 years ago.

 

[alang1216]

So you're saying there was global flooding in the past but the ark was allegorical? You also say that mankind began in the Middle East and spread to everywhere on the globe from there but the Tower of Babel was allegorical? Do I have that right? You realize there is not a lot of physical evidence for either.

What was God's role in all this? Did He send the asteroid and confuse languages to punish mankind?

C’mon man. Saying there was a great migration from Mesopotamia which happens to be called the cradle of civilization does not mean mankind began in the ME.

What part of they used allegory to make it easier to remember and pass down information did you not understand? Why are you trying to find something to not pick? Rather than reading these accounts critically, why aren’t you trying to discern what lessons and knowledge they were trying to pass down? Is it that important to you to know if there was an actual ark? And that people used a boat to save human and animal lives? Because I’m sure some did. Wouldn’t you? But instead you keep reading these passages literally to justify your biases.

So it doesn’t appear that you have it right. Here’s a suggestion why don’t you ask me what I am saying instead of trying to guess what I am saying. It takes too long to correct your guesses.

how much physical evidence are you expecting for events that occurred thousands of years ago? Are you telling me that you don’t believe there was a migration from Mesopotamia to other parts of the world? C’mon man.

Sorry if I'm being dense but I'm only trying to understand what you're saying and I don't. What do you think the Bible is? History, science, folklore, theology, ethical guidance, or something else?

Do I believe there was a migration from Mesopotamia to other parts of the world? If you mean the physical movement of people, no I don't. The people of the ME look nothing like those of the Americas. If you mean the culture of the ME then yes, to a degree, since every culture affects those that it touches. China influenced the ME just as the ME influence China via trade. The culture of the ME looked nothing like that of the Americas when first encountered by Europeans.

 

[james bond]

So you're saying there was global flooding in the past but the ark was allegorical? You also say that mankind began in the Middle East and spread to everywhere on the globe from there but the Tower of Babel was allegorical? Do I have that right? You realize there is not a lot of physical evidence for either.

What was God's role in all this? Did He send the asteroid and confuse languages to punish mankind?

First, ding doesn't know science nor understand Archimedes Principle. There are hundreds of gigatons of ice melting at the poles due to warming cycles and no global flood. It's evidence for God as he promised no more global floods.

Second, Noah's flood was real and it happened around 2458 BC. None of Genesis is allegorical. It happened the way the Bible is written. Creation was in seven days. While Noah and his family were building the ark as instructed by God, he tried to get people to repent, i.e. change their minds, but to no avail. It's the same as with ding and others here. They'll continue to believe what they want to believe.

With the global flood, it first rained for forty days and forty nights. During that time, the fountains of the deep rose up as mountains underneath the seas rose up and the water inside the Earth came rising up quickly. More evidence for God are the subterranean oceans that came forth. There is also some who believe there was a canopy of water in the sky that was created on the second day. This would add to the water. Eventually, the water covered the mountain tops and highest peaks. It covered Mt. Everest and the Himalayas because they weren't as high as today. More evidence that the past was different from the present.

https://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c010.html

Noah's ark drifted for 150 days while every plant, animal, and human were killed. The fact is a flood is one of the natural disasters that will kill the most people. More evidence for God. The God sent a wind to the ark and then for another 150 days the water steadily went down. Where did the water go? It went here -- https://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-floodwater.html.

Noah was instructed by God to send out a raven, which flew back and forth but could find no place to land. How did Noah know? It did not return. Next, he sent out a dove, which came back. A few days later, he sent it out again and the second time came back with an olive leaf in its beak. It symbolized peace. A few more days and Noah sent it out a third time and this time it did not return. It had found a safe place to live and that is where Noah headed. If you know about birds and their behaviors, then this is more evidence of God. Look up how Vikings used to navigate their ships.

Noah and his family ended up on land, but waited until God commanded him to leave the ark, along with his family, and all the animals. They had been on the ark over a year. As soon as he stepped on dry land, Noah built an altar of stones and offered sacrifices to God to give thanks. God made a covenant with Noah to never send another flood to destroy the entire world and marked it with a rainbow. Noah and his sons received the command from God to be fruitful and multiply. Before the Flood, people ate only vegetables. I suppose one could argue they were vegan, but not in the same context as today. After the flood, God gave Noah and his family permission to eat meat from animals. The water of the Flood symbolized baptism. Just as the Flood washed away evil and gave the world a fresh start, baptism cleanses a person for entry into a new life. This may to some who have repented, but sin remained and we are ending up like it was before. Will people become so evil that innocent people are in danger? I don't think so. We have nuclear weapons and guns to protect ourselves now. The danger will probably come from those who do not believe in God, i.e. without God, or end up being like God in their thinking and attitude.

Dude, I’ve been a practicing engineer for 35 years. Engineering is the commercial application of science, so I am pretty sure I am qualified to discuss science.

you on the other hand are a religious nutjob who reads the Bible literally and believes the earth and universe were created 6000 years ago.

I'm a computer scientist who is smarter and have a higher IQ than you. I've read evolution (have a source for that) and believed it and then started comparing it with the Bible since 2012; I was baptized then and became a born-again Christian. From 2007 - 2011, there were a lot of scientific articles that came out criticizing evolution. This was not my motive for getting baptized. It was coincidental. These articles are more difficult to find now, but I think still there.

Furthermore I have a source for my beliefs -- the Bible -- and learned how to read it and understand how science backs it up.

Anyway, I cannot convince you to change your worldview. What I can argue is that you are wrong about this thread since we have much more ice melting at the poles than fifteen gigatons. Read and learn -- Antarctica is Dumping Ice into the Ocean 630% Faster Than It Did the 1980s | Live Science

The Global Impacts of Rapidly Disappearing Arctic Sea Ice

What isn't happening is AGW. It's just cyclical warming that we go through. Besides, there are things we can do if you do not want excess CO2.

 

[alang1216]

So you're saying there was global flooding in the past but the ark was allegorical? You also say that mankind began in the Middle East and spread to everywhere on the globe from there but the Tower of Babel was allegorical? Do I have that right? You realize there is not a lot of physical evidence for either.

What was God's role in all this? Did He send the asteroid and confuse languages to punish mankind?

First, ding doesn't know science nor understand Archimedes Principle. There are hundreds of gigatons of ice melting at the poles due to warming cycles and no global flood. It's evidence for God as he promised no more global floods.

Second, Noah's flood was real and it happened around 2458 BC. None of Genesis is allegorical. It happened the way the Bible is written. Creation was in seven days. While Noah and his family were building the ark as instructed by God, he tried to get people to repent, i.e. change their minds, but to no avail. It's the same as with ding and others here. They'll continue to believe what they want to believe.

With the global flood, it first rained for forty days and forty nights. During that time, the fountains of the deep rose up as mountains underneath the seas rose up and the water inside the Earth came rising up quickly. More evidence for God are the subterranean oceans that came forth. There is also some who believe there was a canopy of water in the sky that was created on the second day. This would add to the water. Eventually, the water covered the mountain tops and highest peaks. It covered Mt. Everest and the Himalayas because they weren't as high as today; they rose up as fountains of the deep. More evidence that the past was different from the present.

https://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c010.html

Noah's ark drifted for 150 days while every plant, animal, and human were killed. The fact is a flood is one of the natural disasters that will kill the most people. More evidence for God. The God sent a wind to the ark and then for another 150 days the water steadily went down. Where did the water go? It went here -- https://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-floodwater.html.

Noah was instructed by God to send out a raven, which flew back and forth but could find no place to land. How did Noah know? It did not return. Next, he sent out a dove, which came back. A few days later, he sent it out again and the second time came back with an olive leaf in its beak. It symbolized peace. A few more days and Noah sent it out a third time and this time it did not return. It had found a safe place to live and that is where Noah headed. If you know about birds and their behaviors, then this is more evidence of God. Look up how Vikings used to navigate their ships.

Noah and his family ended up on land, but waited until God commanded him to leave the ark, along with his family, and all the animals. They had been on the ark over a year. As soon as he stepped on dry land, Noah built an altar of stones and offered sacrifices to God to give thanks. God made a covenant with Noah to never send another flood to destroy the entire world and marked it with a rainbow. Noah and his sons received the command from God to be fruitful and multiply. Before the Flood, people ate only vegetables. I suppose one could argue they were vegan, but not in the same context as today. After the flood, God gave Noah and his family permission to eat meat from animals. The water of the Flood symbolized baptism. Just as the Flood washed away evil and gave the world a fresh start, baptism cleanses a person for entry into a new life. This may hold to some who have repented, but sin remained and we are ending up like it was before. Will people become so evil that innocent people are in danger? I don't think so. We have nuclear weapons and guns to protect ourselves now. The danger will probably come from those who do not believe in God, i.e. without God, or end up being like God in their thinking and attitude. The last part is just my opinion.

Thanks for the clarification. Since the Flood was a supernatural event there is really nothing to refute. The issues with the story, e.g., no evidence of a global flood or kangaroos only in Australia, are easily explained as supernatural machinations. "Because God did it" is always the final answer.

 

[ReinyDays]

no, the physics is spot on. They used the measured size of the crater to determine the volume displaced and then they used the volume displaced to calculate the energy of the event that explained what I just wrote.

I even provided the excerpt from the peer reviewed scientific paper that was published on this that proves that was how they did it.

The paper doesn't mention rain ... this is the physics you have in error ... what are the new lapse rates? ...

the published paper which was peer reviewed wasn’t wrong.

Do you think "peer review" means the paper is right? ... seriously? ... I'm not saying they're wrong ... I'm just saying you're not conserving energy ... you're the engineer, how much energy to excavate the crater? ...

Takes more than just water vapor in the air to make rain ... some vital part that you seem blissfully unaware of ...

 

[james bond]

Thanks for the clarification. Since the Flood was a supernatural event there is really nothing to refute. The issues with the story, e.g., no evidence of a global flood or kangaroos only in Australia, are easily explained as supernatural machinations. "Because God did it" is always the final answer.

I wouldn't just write it off like that. The least you can do is learn from it. God is a loving God who sacrificed his only son so that we could live on with our second lives. Prior to it, we could not anymore due to Adam's sin. Just like with Adam, he gives us one command and that is to believe and follow his son Jesus. He is the way and the door to the narrow path. This is in lieu of taking the path of the wide gate. Many people mistake it for heaven's gate. The other big takeaway from the flood is that Jesus is a wrathful God. He will be coming again, probably after your and our deaths. It's prophecized that this will happen and all eyes will see. It means all of our differences will be settled on Earth. Now, the prophecies of what happens is what is allegory and metaphor. We do not know what all the symbolic happening mean including the Lake of Fire (hell) or even Hades, the place of the dead. I think most of will be in a sleeping but conscious state. A few will be suffering right away like Lazarus.

ETA: Science discredits your no evidence for a global flood and kangaroos only in Australia. I've said the Earth was not the same in the past as it is today. Satan and his Antibible of evolution has clouded your mind into accepting uniformitarianism. The Bible does not state that. We had Pangaea the supercontinent and plate tectonics or underseas earthquakes formed our seven continents. The catastrophism changed our geology rapidly. This is how I know that things happen rapidly on Earth. One does not have to wait a lifetime or beyond it.

 

[ding]

no, the physics is spot on. They used the measured size of the crater to determine the volume displaced and then they used the volume displaced to calculate the energy of the event that explained what I just wrote.

I even provided the excerpt from the peer reviewed scientific paper that was published on this that proves that was how they did it.

The paper doesn't mention rain ... this is the physics you have in error ... what are the new lapse rates? ...

the published paper which was peer reviewed wasn’t wrong.

Do you think "peer review" means the paper is right? ... seriously? ... I'm not saying they're wrong ... I'm just saying you're not conserving energy ... you're the engineer, how much energy to excavate the crater? ...

Takes more than just water vapor in the air to make rain ... some vital part that you seem blissfully unaware of ...

So what do you believe will happen when 1500 gigatons of ice is instantly vaporized?

 

[alang1216]

Thanks for the clarification. Since the Flood was a supernatural event there is really nothing to refute. The issues with the story, e.g., no evidence of a global flood or kangaroos only in Australia, are easily explained as supernatural machinations. "Because God did it" is always the final answer.

I wouldn't just write it off like that. The least you can do is learn from it. God is a loving God who sacrificed his only son so that we could live on with our second lives. Prior to it, we could not anymore due to Adam's sin. Just like with Adam, he gives us one command and that is to believe and follow his son Jesus. He is the way and the door to the narrow path. This is in lieu of taking the path of the wide gate. Many people mistake it for heaven's gate. The other big takeaway from the flood is that Jesus is a wrathful God. He will be coming again, probably after your and our deaths. It's prophecized that this will happen and all eyes will see. It means all of our differences will be settled on Earth. Now, the prophecies of what happens is what is allegory and metaphor. We do not know what all the symbolic happening mean including the Lake of Fire (hell) or even Hades, the place of the dead. I think most of will be in a sleeping but conscious state. A few will be suffering right away like Lazarus.

ETA: Science discredits your no evidence for a global flood and kangaroos only in Australia. I've said the Earth was not the same in the past as it is today. Satan and his Antibible of evolution has clouded your mind into accepting uniformitarianism. The Bible does not state that. We had Pangaea the supercontinent and plate tectonics or underseas earthquakes formed our seven continents. The catastrophism changed our geology rapidly. This is how I know that things happen rapidly on Earth. One does not have to wait a lifetime or beyond it.

Since this is the Science and Technology thread I'll try to focus on that and save the theology for another time.

So far as I know there is evidence for floods just about everywhere but no evidence for a single, global flood. What did science say about why there are only kangaroos in Australia? Yes, we had Pangaea the super-continent and plate tectonics or underseas earthquakes formed our seven continents but those same processes are still going on today and you consider them catastrophic only because your literal reading of the Bible makes you a YEC.

Maybe Satan has clouded your mind into rejecting uniformitarianism?

 

[james bond]

Thanks for the clarification. Since the Flood was a supernatural event there is really nothing to refute. The issues with the story, e.g., no evidence of a global flood or kangaroos only in Australia, are easily explained as supernatural machinations. "Because God did it" is always the final answer.

I wouldn't just write it off like that. The least you can do is learn from it. God is a loving God who sacrificed his only son so that we could live on with our second lives. Prior to it, we could not anymore due to Adam's sin. Just like with Adam, he gives us one command and that is to believe and follow his son Jesus. He is the way and the door to the narrow path. This is in lieu of taking the path of the wide gate. Many people mistake it for heaven's gate. The other big takeaway from the flood is that Jesus is a wrathful God. He will be coming again, probably after your and our deaths. It's prophecized that this will happen and all eyes will see. It means all of our differences will be settled on Earth. Now, the prophecies of what happens is what is allegory and metaphor. We do not know what all the symbolic happening mean including the Lake of Fire (hell) or even Hades, the place of the dead. I think most of will be in a sleeping but conscious state. A few will be suffering right away like Lazarus.

ETA: Science discredits your no evidence for a global flood and kangaroos only in Australia. I've said the Earth was not the same in the past as it is today. Satan and his Antibible of evolution has clouded your mind into accepting uniformitarianism. The Bible does not state that. We had Pangaea the supercontinent and plate tectonics or underseas earthquakes formed our seven continents. The catastrophism changed our geology rapidly. This is how I know that things happen rapidly on Earth. One does not have to wait a lifetime or beyond it.

Since this is the Science and Technology thread I'll try to focus on that and save the theology for another time.

So far as I know there is evidence for floods just about everywhere but no evidence for a single, global flood. What did science say about why there are only kangaroos in Australia? Yes, we had Pangaea the super-continent and plate tectonics or underseas earthquakes formed our seven continents but those same processes are still going on today and you consider them catastrophic only because your literal reading of the Bible makes you a YEC.

Maybe Satan has clouded your mind into rejecting uniformitarianism?

You're blind. I already pointed out the mountains underneath the oceans and entire buried civilizations around the world. We even have the oxygen-18 now in the rocks. You can't just make the fossils are on top of mountains, and they're marine creatures, disappear. Why should your fossils only show evolutionary layering? That's BS. There was a whole whale skeleton found in the Himalayas. Most of the fossil record is marine creatures. Even the Ark Encounter and Creation Museum has been successful while evolution exhibits such as Lucy have been failures. People do not want your Satanic Temple in the neighborhood.

I had to look up your kangaroos in Australia. It means creation scientist Wallace was right about his observation of the Wallace line. Isn't that enough evidence of God and science backs up the Bible? Of course not. It destroys you and your worldview, so the only way we'll know is after we die. Guaranteed you will know and every eye will see. All the contradictions of God's word and science by Satan's Antibible are not just coincidence. When your science all contradict God's word, it means they are bad and it isn't a coincidence.