Is it possible for atheism to ever be anything more than critical theory?

[Syriusly]

Sorry to disappoint you. I have a degree in Secondary Ed/Comprehensive Sciences.

And did not know the universe was perfectly ordered before it began to expand and cool, right?

What is really, really amusing is that both religion and atheism existed before modern science.

You don't need to know about red shift to believe in your tales about a fairy in the sky who controls everything.

You don't need to know about red shift to not believe about a fairy in the sky.

But what we don't know is what your obsession with atheists is all about.
What is it about atheists that intrude into your religion fantasy world?

That they seek to subordinate religion.

You are free to pursue pleasure, fame, fortune, and power but the reality is that none of those things will satisfy you because you were made for more.

The fact that atheists believe in the middle ground is proof of that. They are literally repulsed by the logical conclusion of materialism because they were made for more.

When have I tried to 'subordinate religion'?

What 'middle ground' do I believe in?

Where is the evidence that I am 'literally repulsed by the logical conclusion of materialism'- whtever the hell that means?

Maybe if you devoted more time to your God or Gods- rather than obsessing about what others don't believe in- you might find some sort of personal enlightenment.

When haven’t you?

You seem confused. I don't start threads trying to make the believers of fairy tales 'subordinate'- nor do I struggle to subordinate religion to non-believe in religion.

It is you and your fellow co-religionists who not only currently attempt to subordinate those who do not believe as you do- this thread is an example- but your fellow co-religionists have done this for centuries. Having views like mine- and expressing them 400 years ago could have gone me tortured or executed.

I react when you or your ilk start spouting off the usual anti-atheist drivel- and then I point out that your fairy tales are nothing but fairy tales.

Now if we dive deeper- I have quite a bit of appreciation for some of the wisdom of the Bible- Jesus's discussion of why you should love your enemies and not just your friends is powerful stuff. That is philosophy.

But you and your fellow co-religionists never seem to want to discuss the wisdoms of the Bible or whatever holy book you hold dear- but to bash atheists over the head for not sharing your own deluded beliefs.

If you would like we can check and see how many threads I have started attacking people for their faith and how many you have started attacking people for their lack of faith. If you really want we can run the numbers.....

It is you who attempt to subordinate those who do not share your own delusions.

 

[ding]

We crave and cling to impermanent states and things which are incapable of satisfying us.

I don't doubt you crave those things. But you frankly have no idea what I crave or cling to.

What else is there? If you believe everything was created by the material world then those feelings you get are nothing more than electrochemical responses in your brain.

And again- you have no idea what I crave- you imagine you know what I crave- based upon your own personal experiences- but you have no way of knowing what I crave.

As far as things incapable of satisfying us- again speak for yourself. Many things satisfy me- from drinking the perfect pour of beer, smelling a wonderful rose, a glorious sunrise, seeing my child take her first step, seeing her graduate.

And as far as feelings being nothing more than electrochemical responses- well that is really what they are. As is- in my opinion- your belief in some diety.

I dropped acid one time. And I saw God. Truly I saw God while I was on acid- and then when I came down I realized it was just a boy with a boogy board.

Our brains are electrochemical machines- incredible electrochemical machines- that are affected by drugs and hormones and blood sugar and blood flow- I can marvel at our amazing brains without needing to give credit to some unseen hidden hand.

You crave material things because that’s all you believe exists. Even things like love are products of material things. There can be no lasting meaning because material things, even love and memories, are not permanent.

Therefore, earthly pleasure and satisfying earthy pleasure is all there is. Even things like caring for others is about satisfying earthly pleasure. You do these things for the pleasure it gives you. You don’t do these things because It is the right thing to do. In fact, there can be no concept of right or wrong.

 

[Syriusly]

What you do not understand is the cause of cause and effect. ToE has no cause.

The Bible explains how God created the world in 6 days. You are ignorant of what the Bible says.

The Theory of Evolution doesn't concern itself with what created the material world. This is the fallacy that you science deniers keep mistaking. We don't need to know where the headwaters of a river are in order to see that there is indeed a river flowing past us.

The Bible has a wonderful myth about how the world was created. Other religions have other creation myths. None of them are supported by science.

The Theory of Evolution doesn't concern itself with what created the material world. This is the fallacy that you science deniers keep mistaking. We don't need to know where the headwaters of a river are in order to see that there is indeed a river flowing past us.

The Bible has a wonderful myth about how the world was created. Other religions have other creation myths. None of them are supported by science

Do you believe that everything was created from the material world?

No- since I don't believe that our material world was created first.

As far as how the universe was created? I really don't know- I have read some fascinating theories- but I don't think we really know yet- and probably will never have perfect knowledge of the creation of the universe. I don't need to know exactly how the universe was formed.

But I do know that the Earth was not created in 6 days. And that the events as listed in Genesis really don't make sense when the science is looked at.

Do you realize that Jews never try to convince others of that the Old Testament must be taken literally? That is the providence of a small segment of Evangelical Christians who oddly seem to believe that if the Old Testament is not all literally true that somehow threatens Jesus.

 

[ding]

And did not know the universe was perfectly ordered before it began to expand and cool, right?

What is really, really amusing is that both religion and atheism existed before modern science.

You don't need to know about red shift to believe in your tales about a fairy in the sky who controls everything.

You don't need to know about red shift to not believe about a fairy in the sky.

But what we don't know is what your obsession with atheists is all about.
What is it about atheists that intrude into your religion fantasy world?

That they seek to subordinate religion.

You are free to pursue pleasure, fame, fortune, and power but the reality is that none of those things will satisfy you because you were made for more.

The fact that atheists believe in the middle ground is proof of that. They are literally repulsed by the logical conclusion of materialism because they were made for more.

When have I tried to 'subordinate religion'?

What 'middle ground' do I believe in?

Where is the evidence that I am 'literally repulsed by the logical conclusion of materialism'- whtever the hell that means?

Maybe if you devoted more time to your God or Gods- rather than obsessing about what others don't believe in- you might find some sort of personal enlightenment.

When haven’t you?

You seem confused. I don't start threads trying to make the believers of fairy tales 'subordinate'- nor do I struggle to subordinate religion to non-believe in religion.

It is you and your fellow co-religionists who not only currently attempt to subordinate those who do not believe as you do- this thread is an example- but your fellow co-religionists have done this for centuries. Having views like mine- and expressing them 400 years ago could have gone me tortured or executed.

I react when you or your ilk start spouting off the usual anti-atheist drivel- and then I point out that your fairy tales are nothing but fairy tales.

Now if we dive deeper- I have quite a bit of appreciation for some of the wisdom of the Bible- Jesus's discussion of why you should love your enemies and not just your friends is powerful stuff. That is philosophy.

But you and your fellow co-religionists never seem to want to discuss the wisdoms of the Bible or whatever holy book you hold dear- but to bash atheists over the head for not sharing your own deluded beliefs.

If you would like we can check and see how many threads I have started attacking people for their faith and how many you have started attacking people for their lack of faith. If you really want we can run the numbers.....

It is you who attempt to subordinate those who do not share your own delusions.

You subordinate religion by condemning respect for people who believe in God.

 

[ding]

What you do not understand is the cause of cause and effect. ToE has no cause.

The Bible explains how God created the world in 6 days. You are ignorant of what the Bible says.

The Theory of Evolution doesn't concern itself with what created the material world. This is the fallacy that you science deniers keep mistaking. We don't need to know where the headwaters of a river are in order to see that there is indeed a river flowing past us.

The Bible has a wonderful myth about how the world was created. Other religions have other creation myths. None of them are supported by science.

The Theory of Evolution doesn't concern itself with what created the material world. This is the fallacy that you science deniers keep mistaking. We don't need to know where the headwaters of a river are in order to see that there is indeed a river flowing past us.

The Bible has a wonderful myth about how the world was created. Other religions have other creation myths. None of them are supported by science

Do you believe that everything was created from the material world?

No- since I don't believe that our material world was created first.

As far as how the universe was created? I really don't know- I have read some fascinating theories- but I don't think we really know yet- and probably will never have perfect knowledge of the creation of the universe. I don't need to know exactly how the universe was formed.

But I do know that the Earth was not created in 6 days. And that the events as listed in Genesis really don't make sense when the science is looked at.

Do you realize that Jews never try to convince others of that the Old Testament must be taken literally? That is the providence of a small segment of Evangelical Christians who oddly seem to believe that if the Old Testament is not all literally true that somehow threatens Jesus.

I don’t read the Bible literally.

There are only two options. Either space and time were created by spirit or consciousness or it wasn’t. If you believe it wasn’t then you believe all there is is the material world. Everything else reduces to one or the other of these two lowest common denominators.

 

[Syriusly]

What is really, really amusing is that both religion and atheism existed before modern science.

You don't need to know about red shift to believe in your tales about a fairy in the sky who controls everything.

You don't need to know about red shift to not believe about a fairy in the sky.

But what we don't know is what your obsession with atheists is all about.
What is it about atheists that intrude into your religion fantasy world?

That they seek to subordinate religion.

You are free to pursue pleasure, fame, fortune, and power but the reality is that none of those things will satisfy you because you were made for more.

The fact that atheists believe in the middle ground is proof of that. They are literally repulsed by the logical conclusion of materialism because they were made for more.

When have I tried to 'subordinate religion'?

What 'middle ground' do I believe in?

Where is the evidence that I am 'literally repulsed by the logical conclusion of materialism'- whtever the hell that means?

Maybe if you devoted more time to your God or Gods- rather than obsessing about what others don't believe in- you might find some sort of personal enlightenment.

When haven’t you?

Do you have any examples of Syriusly attempting to subordinate religion?

I’ve seen her do it many times.

Not that it is important but I am a husband and father- so 'she' is the wrong personal pronoun for me.

Feel free to provide any quotes of me denigrating religion other than in the context of either
a) responding to attacks by religionists on atheists or
b) responding to specific moral judgements by a religion.

My personal philosophy is that you should be free to believe whatever fairy tales bring you comfort.
And as long as you don't push those fairy tales on me, or attack me for not sharing those fairy tales I will listen politely. I have Christian, Jewish and Muslim friends and we have managed for years not to fight over our beliefs or non-beliefs.

 

[ding]

That they seek to subordinate religion.

You are free to pursue pleasure, fame, fortune, and power but the reality is that none of those things will satisfy you because you were made for more.

The fact that atheists believe in the middle ground is proof of that. They are literally repulsed by the logical conclusion of materialism because they were made for more.

When have I tried to 'subordinate religion'?

What 'middle ground' do I believe in?

Where is the evidence that I am 'literally repulsed by the logical conclusion of materialism'- whtever the hell that means?

Maybe if you devoted more time to your God or Gods- rather than obsessing about what others don't believe in- you might find some sort of personal enlightenment.

When haven’t you?

Do you have any examples of Syriusly attempting to subordinate religion?

I’ve seen her do it many times.

Not that it is important but I am a husband and father- so 'she' is the wrong personal pronoun for me.

Feel free to provide any quotes of me denigrating religion other than in the context of either
a) responding to attacks by religionists on atheists or
b) responding to specific moral judgements by a religion.

My personal philosophy is that you should be free to believe whatever fairy tales bring you comfort.
And as long as you don't push those fairy tales on me, or attack me for not sharing those fairy tales I will listen politely. I have Christian, Jewish and Muslim friends and we have managed for years not to fight over our beliefs or non-beliefs.

My bad. No offense intended.

That is my belief too. Minus the fairy tale bit. I give them the same respect I would want for myself.

I suspect you show them more respect than you do here. There is the proof you are so sorely seeking.

 

[Syriusly]

What is really, really amusing is that both religion and atheism existed before modern science.

You don't need to know about red shift to believe in your tales about a fairy in the sky who controls everything.

You don't need to know about red shift to not believe about a fairy in the sky.

But what we don't know is what your obsession with atheists is all about.
What is it about atheists that intrude into your religion fantasy world?

That they seek to subordinate religion.

You are free to pursue pleasure, fame, fortune, and power but the reality is that none of those things will satisfy you because you were made for more.

The fact that atheists believe in the middle ground is proof of that. They are literally repulsed by the logical conclusion of materialism because they were made for more.

When have I tried to 'subordinate religion'?

What 'middle ground' do I believe in?

Where is the evidence that I am 'literally repulsed by the logical conclusion of materialism'- whtever the hell that means?

Maybe if you devoted more time to your God or Gods- rather than obsessing about what others don't believe in- you might find some sort of personal enlightenment.

When haven’t you?

You seem confused. I don't start threads trying to make the believers of fairy tales 'subordinate'- nor do I struggle to subordinate religion to non-believe in religion.

It is you and your fellow co-religionists who not only currently attempt to subordinate those who do not believe as you do- this thread is an example- but your fellow co-religionists have done this for centuries. Having views like mine- and expressing them 400 years ago could have gone me tortured or executed.

I react when you or your ilk start spouting off the usual anti-atheist drivel- and then I point out that your fairy tales are nothing but fairy tales.

Now if we dive deeper- I have quite a bit of appreciation for some of the wisdom of the Bible- Jesus's discussion of why you should love your enemies and not just your friends is powerful stuff. That is philosophy.

But you and your fellow co-religionists never seem to want to discuss the wisdoms of the Bible or whatever holy book you hold dear- but to bash atheists over the head for not sharing your own deluded beliefs.

If you would like we can check and see how many threads I have started attacking people for their faith and how many you have started attacking people for their lack of faith. If you really want we can run the numbers.....

It is you who attempt to subordinate those who do not share your own delusions.

You subordinate religion by condemning respect for people who believe in God.

Clearly you didn't even bother to read my post.

No surprise. But at least you have your fairy tales to give you comfort.

 

[ding]

That they seek to subordinate religion.

You are free to pursue pleasure, fame, fortune, and power but the reality is that none of those things will satisfy you because you were made for more.

The fact that atheists believe in the middle ground is proof of that. They are literally repulsed by the logical conclusion of materialism because they were made for more.

When have I tried to 'subordinate religion'?

What 'middle ground' do I believe in?

Where is the evidence that I am 'literally repulsed by the logical conclusion of materialism'- whtever the hell that means?

Maybe if you devoted more time to your God or Gods- rather than obsessing about what others don't believe in- you might find some sort of personal enlightenment.

When haven’t you?

You seem confused. I don't start threads trying to make the believers of fairy tales 'subordinate'- nor do I struggle to subordinate religion to non-believe in religion.

It is you and your fellow co-religionists who not only currently attempt to subordinate those who do not believe as you do- this thread is an example- but your fellow co-religionists have done this for centuries. Having views like mine- and expressing them 400 years ago could have gone me tortured or executed.

I react when you or your ilk start spouting off the usual anti-atheist drivel- and then I point out that your fairy tales are nothing but fairy tales.

Now if we dive deeper- I have quite a bit of appreciation for some of the wisdom of the Bible- Jesus's discussion of why you should love your enemies and not just your friends is powerful stuff. That is philosophy.

But you and your fellow co-religionists never seem to want to discuss the wisdoms of the Bible or whatever holy book you hold dear- but to bash atheists over the head for not sharing your own deluded beliefs.

If you would like we can check and see how many threads I have started attacking people for their faith and how many you have started attacking people for their lack of faith. If you really want we can run the numbers.....

It is you who attempt to subordinate those who do not share your own delusions.

You subordinate religion by condemning respect for people who believe in God.

Clearly you didn't even bother to read my post.

No surprise. But at least you have your fairy tales to give you comfort.

I did read your post. I also read your insult of my beliefs.

 

[ding]

Which by the way is condemning respect for people of faith which is a form of subordination of religion.

 

[WinterBorn]

That is what you believe. It is not what I believe. And you cannot prove it either way. Deal with it.

Yes. That is exactly what I believe and if you don’t believe that then you must believe it is nothing more than an electrochemical reaction in your brain.

Once again, you demand that others accept your beliefs and limitations. I do not. I believe love is incorporeal. I also believe that spirit is not the same as love.

There are only two choices. Matter or spirit. Everything else will simply to one of these two common denominators.

No, I do not believe that. I have stated what I believe as far as Love. And that fits neither. Your repeated insistence does not change that.

Which makes perfect sense since you can’t explain it.

My not attempting to explain is not relevant. My beliefs are. And since we are discussing something that cannot be empirically explored, it is solely left to beliefs.

 

[WinterBorn]

Which by the way is condemning respect for people of faith which is a form of subordination of religion.

If that is the case, are you not guilty of subordinating my beliefs?

 

[ding]

Yes. That is exactly what I believe and if you don’t believe that then you must believe it is nothing more than an electrochemical reaction in your brain.

Once again, you demand that others accept your beliefs and limitations. I do not. I believe love is incorporeal. I also believe that spirit is not the same as love.

There are only two choices. Matter or spirit. Everything else will simply to one of these two common denominators.

No, I do not believe that. I have stated what I believe as far as Love. And that fits neither. Your repeated insistence does not change that.

Which makes perfect sense since you can’t explain it.

My not attempting to explain is not relevant. My beliefs are. And since we are discussing something that cannot be empirically explored, it is solely left to beliefs.

The fact that you can’t explain it and still believe it is a sign of faith.

The fact that you deny your materialism and believe that love is not spirit confirms your materialism. The odd thing is that you believe in a lifeforce but you are consistent in your inability to know what it is or how you know it. Apparently you take that on faith too.

But most telling is your firm belief that there is a universal code of common decency that you believe everyone knows and should follow.

 

[ding]

Which by the way is condemning respect for people of faith which is a form of subordination of religion.

If that is the case, are you not guilty of subordinating my beliefs?

Your belief in the negative?

How exactly have I disrespected them? Have I called you any names? Have I said you were stupid for not believing in God? All I have done is question you?

 

[Syriusly]

If it were true that man’s existence were only to seek pleasure he would not be born to die. Since our bodies are doomed to die, our task on earth must be of a more spiritual nature. It cannot be unrestrained enjoyment of everyday life. It cannot be the search for the best ways to obtain material goods and then cheerfully get the most of them. It has to be the fulfillment of a permanent, earnest duty so that one's life journey may become an experience of moral growth, so that one may leave life a better human being than one started it.

I understand that is your opinion and that is how you feel.
But that doesn't make it the truth.
Your opinion is based on your concept that man's existence has to have some specific purpose.
And this is what you strive for- which I am fine with.

But who are you to say that someone finds unrestrained joy every day of their life is wrong- rather than just happy?

I am content with the way I lead my life- but will I truly be a better human being than the day I was born? I doubt it.

 

[ding]

If it were true that man’s existence were only to seek pleasure he would not be born to die. Since our bodies are doomed to die, our task on earth must be of a more spiritual nature. It cannot be unrestrained enjoyment of everyday life. It cannot be the search for the best ways to obtain material goods and then cheerfully get the most of them. It has to be the fulfillment of a permanent, earnest duty so that one's life journey may become an experience of moral growth, so that one may leave life a better human being than one started it.

I understand that is your opinion and that is how you feel.
But that doesn't make it the truth.
Your opinion is based on your concept that man's existence has to have some specific purpose.
And this is what you strive for- which I am fine with.

But who are you to say that someone finds unrestrained joy every day of their life is wrong- rather than just happy?

I am content with the way I lead my life- but will I truly be a better human being than the day I was born? I doubt it.

No. My position is based upon the evidence around me and in me.

I never said you didn’t find joy. I merely questioned how it could have anymore meaning than chemical reactions in the brain.

 

[Syriusly]

If it were true that man’s existence were only to seek pleasure he would not be born to die. Since our bodies are doomed to die, our task on earth must be of a more spiritual nature. It cannot be unrestrained enjoyment of everyday life. It cannot be the search for the best ways to obtain material goods and then cheerfully get the most of them. It has to be the fulfillment of a permanent, earnest duty so that one's life journey may become an experience of moral growth, so that one may leave life a better human being than one started it.

I understand that is your opinion and that is how you feel.
But that doesn't make it the truth.
Your opinion is based on your concept that man's existence has to have some specific purpose.
And this is what you strive for- which I am fine with.

But who are you to say that someone finds unrestrained joy every day of their life is wrong- rather than just happy?

I am content with the way I lead my life- but will I truly be a better human being than the day I was born? I doubt it.

No. My position is based upon the evidence around me and in me.

I never said you didn’t find joy. I merely questioned how it could have anymore meaning than chemical reactions in the brain.

Please tell us about that evidence that supports your opinion.

Meanwhile- I find those who find unrestrained joy in life- which by the way includes many believers in faith- to be admired.

 

[Syriusly]

Which by the way is condemning respect for people of faith which is a form of subordination of religion.

If that is the case, are you not guilty of subordinating my beliefs?

Your belief in the negative?

How exactly have I disrespected them? Have I called you any names? Have I said you were stupid for not believing in God? All I have done is question you?

All you have done is imply that atheism is subordinate to religion- that is what this thread is.

You are implying that my not believing in your fairy tales is inferior to your belief in your fairy tales.

That is what this thread is about.

As I point out over and over- I don't start threads proclaiming the superiority of atheism to faith- I don't feel a need to convince you of faith that you are wrong- or inferior.

You are one who starts these threads.

Not me.

 

[Syriusly]

Which by the way is condemning respect for people of faith which is a form of subordination of religion.

What post are you responding to?

Who is condemning respect for people of faith?

 

[ding]

Which by the way is condemning respect for people of faith which is a form of subordination of religion.

If that is the case, are you not guilty of subordinating my beliefs?

Your belief in the negative?

How exactly have I disrespected them? Have I called you any names? Have I said you were stupid for not believing in God? All I have done is question you?

All you have done is imply that atheism is subordinate to religion- that is what this thread is.

You are implying that my not believing in your fairy tales is inferior to your belief in your fairy tales.

That is what this thread is about.

As I point out over and over- I don't start threads proclaiming the superiority of atheism to faith- I don't feel a need to convince you of faith that you are wrong- or inferior.

You are one who starts these threads.

Not me.

No. I’m not. I am stating the truth. Atheists cannot prove a negative so the only way they can validate their beliefs in the negative is to criticize the beliefs of others. Is that offensive to you? Why?