Zone1 "Is it lawful on the Sabbath, to save life or to kill? [Rabbi Yeshua]

[DennisPTate]

Did Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus back up the Machabees in their decision to fight back, even on the Sabbath, if Jews were attacked by Greco-Syrian armies on the Sabbath?

Are there any ways in which this question could be applicable to moder events, such as The Yom Kippur War for example"

Was Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus, [Isa the Prophet, peace be upon Him, to Muslims], saying that a police officer or soldier is free to take a life in defence of an innocent person, even on the Sabbath?

Yes, that is exactly what i think He was saying!


I believe that my people are destroyed for lack of knowledge, so I go online and fight and fight and fight against ignorance and false ideas every Sabbath.

Shabbat Shalom!

[I Book of Machabees, chapter two] :

And it was told to the king's men, and to the army that was in Jerusalem in the city of David, that certain men who had broken the king's commandment, were gone away into the secret places in the wilderness, and that many were gone after them. 32 And forthwith they went out towards them, and made war against them on the sabbath day, 33 And they said to them: Do you still resist? come forth, and do according to the edict of king Antiochus, and you shall live. 34 And they said: We will not come forth, neither will we obey the king's edict, to profane the sabbath day. 35 And they made haste to give them battle.

36 But they answered them not, neither did they cast a stone at them, nor stopped up the secret places, 37 Saying: Let us all die in our innocency: and heaven and earth shall be witnesses for us, that you put us to death wrongfully. 38 So they gave them battle on the sabbath: and they were slain with their wives, and their children, and their cattle, to the number of a thousand persons. 39 And Mathathias and his friends heard of it, and they mourned for them exceedingly. 40 And every man said to his neighbour: If we shall all do as our brethren have done, and not fight against the heathens for our lives, and our justifications: they will now quickly root us out of the earth.

41 And they determined in that day, saying: Whosoever shall come up against us to fight on the sabbath day, we will fight against him: and we will not all die, as our brethren that were slain in the secret places. 42 Then was assembled to them the congregation of the Assideans, the stoutest of Israel, every one that had a good will for the law. 43 And all they that fled from the evils, joined themselves to them, and were a support to them. 44 And they gathered an army, and slew the sinners in their wrath, and the wicked men in their indignation: and the rest fled to the nations for safety. 45 And Mathathias and his friends went round about, and they threw down the altars:

"

Douay-Rheims Bible, 1 Machabees Chapter 2

Catholic Bible Study Online, Douay-Rheims Version. Complete text, index, search, Bible verse, bible story, scripture, book, prophesy, christian ...

www.drbo.org

It is my judgement that I should fight and fight and fight and fight against ignorance... .especially on Shabbat!


"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." [Hosea 4:6}

If you would like to know what kind of knowledge we are missing, I would suggest that we read the near death experience account of former Atheist and Orthodox Jewish Rabbi Alon Anava?


www.AlonAnava.com/

Rabbi Alon Anava

Rabbi Alon Anava shares his near-death experience in depth. A must see video if you are interested in life after death. After his clinical death, Alon experienced a reality that is both frightening and hopeful. Alon was truly given a second chance. See what Alon has done with a second chance...

www.youtube.com

 

[Lisa558]

According to Jewish law, the protection of life supersedes all other laws. If your life is (or could be) in danger, you fight back.

 

[DennisPTate]

According to Jewish law, the protection of life supersedes all other laws. If your life is (or could be) in danger, you fight back.

EXACTLY!!!!

So why don't some Orthodox, Conservative or even Reform Jewish Rabbi's quote Rabbi Yeshua's rather brilliant question in order to clear the conscience of police officers, or soldiers who decide to take a life, in order to save the life of somebody who cannot defend themselves?

My belief is because "The Eruv Rav" are a group of people who invest billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars into convincing nearly ninety percent of us to be so divided, that we hate each other, over such rather meaningless things in the "Genius Master Plan" that Rabbi Alon Anava refers to, that the USA and Canada and all nations are on the brink of political Civil War!

I had been a Messianic Gentile since 1972 or 1973 but by 1990 I saw that my own group of people were terribly mis-underinformed on critical topics, [such as the actual state of the dead], that the destruction of the United States and Canada is largely the fault of people much like me, Dennis Tate!

Orthodox, Chassidic, Conservative and Reform Jewish Rabbi's should also act like CHAPLAINS who try their best to give some credit across Theological boundaries.

"Know! You need to judge every person favorably, even someone who is completely wicked, you need to search and find any little bit of good. By finding in him a little good and judging him favorably you actually bring him over to the side of merit and you can return him in teshuva" (Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, LM 282)

Rabbi Nachman's advice is brilliant which makes him a relative modern "King Solomon" sort of leader among us, we should listen to Rabbi Nachman because it is the key to defeating The Eruv Rav, [that Sir Winston Churchill referred to as "The High Cabal]."

Who is The Erev Rav? Do they 'run' the world? Are they an evil regime with a lot of power? - Part 1​

And now that we are on this topic:

Malthusianism is a theory asserting that population growth, which is exponential, will inevitably outstrip the linear growth of resources like food, leading to a population crisis caused by famine, disease, and war. Proposed by Thomas Malthus, the theory predicts a cycle of misery where any improvement in living standards will be followed by a population boom, eventually leading to hardship that reduces the population, which in turn allows resources to recover. While the core ideas have been debated and challenged by modern economic and agricultural advancements, the theory has been influential and resurfaces in modern forms, such as neo-Malthusianism, which often focuses on population control and sustainability concern

.....
Neo-Malthusianism is the advocacy of human population planning to ensure resources and environmental integrities for current and future human populations as well as for other species.<a href="Malthusianism - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a> In Britain the term "Malthusian" can also refer more specifically to arguments made in favour of family planning, hence organizations such as the Malthusian League.<a href="Malthusianism - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>8<span>]</span></a> Neo-Malthusians differ from Malthus's theories mainly in their support for the use of birth control. Malthus, a devout Christian, believed that "self-control" (i.e., abstinence) was preferable to artificial birth control. He also worried that the effect of contraceptive use would be too powerful in curbing growth; it was commonly believed in the 18th century (including by Malthus) that a steadily growing population remained a necessary factor in the continuing "progress of society", generally. Modern neo-Malthusians are generally more concerned than Malthus with environmental degradation and catastrophic famine than with poverty.

Malthusianism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Lisa558]

EXACTLY!!!!

So why don't some Orthodox, Conservative or even Reform Jewish Rabbi's quote Rabbi Yeshua's rather brilliant question in order to clear the conscience of police officers, or soldiers who decide to take a life, in order to save the life of somebody who cannot defend themselves?

My belief is because "The Eruv Rav" are a group of people who invest billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars into convincing nearly ninety percent of us to be so divided, that we hate each other, over such rather meaningless things in the "Genius Master Plan" that Rabbi Alon Anava refers to, that the USA and Canada and all nations are on the brink of political Civil War!

I had been a Messianic Gentile since 1972 or 1973 but by 1990 I saw that my own group of people were terribly mis-underinformed on critical topics, [such as the actual state of the dead], that the destruction of the United States and Canada is largely the fault of people much like me, Dennis Tate!

Orthodox, Chassidic, Conservative and Reform Jewish Rabbi's should also act like CHAPLAINS who try their best to give some credit across Theological boundaries.



Rabbi Nachman's advice is brilliant which makes him a relative modern "King Solomon" sort of leader among us, we should listen to Rabbi Nachman because it is the key to defeating The Eruv Rav, [that Sir Winston Churchill referred to as "The High Cabal]."

Who is The Erev Rav? Do they 'run' the world? Are they an evil regime with a lot of power? - Part 1​

And now that we are on this topic:

The answer to your question as to why Jewish rabbis do not quote Jesus is because he has no part in the traditional Jewish religion. He was just a man whose teachings paralleled traditional Jewish thought - that life supersedes all else - so why zero in on what he said? It carries no special weight. (Actually, I’m surprised you would even question why Jewish leaders do not rely on Jesus to “back them up.” )

The concept, known as pikuah nefesh, predates Jesus of course and is discussed widely in the Talmud. Jesus, an observant Jew, was emphasizing that concept to his followers.

Pikuach nefesh - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[DennisPTate]

The answer to your question as to why Jewish rabbis do not quote Jesus is because he has no part in the traditional Jewish religion. He was just a man whose teachings paralleled traditional Jewish thought - that life supersedes all else - so why zero in on what he said? It carries no special weight. (Actually, I’m surprised you would even question why Jewish leaders do not rely on Jesus to “back them up.” )

The concept, known as pikuah nefesh, predates Jesus of course and is discussed widely in the Talmud. Jesus, an observant Jew, was emphasizing that concept to his followers.

Pikuach nefesh - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Your reply sets the stage for Shalom in the entire Middle East.....
I am trying my best to not exaggerate the value of what you just wrote!
...

"The answer to your question as to why Jewish rabbis do not quote Jesus is because he has no part in the traditional Jewish religion" [Lisa558]

That is the answer that the Rabbi's have passed down to you because they accept the world view of Rabbi Akiva who mentored Simon Bar Kochba into initiation of the Bar Kochba Revolt.

My guess is that the Bar Kochba Revolt holds the key to Shalom in the Middle East but the full truth is challenging because there may have been about four hundred thousand Messianic Jews, [followers of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus], living in the Roman Province of Judaea at that time.

Rabbi Akiva felt that as soon as possible Moshiach Simon Bar Kochba, would get rid of the Romans, then he should expel those Messianic Jews.

The scholarship of Mr. Tsvi Misinai puts an interesting possible spin on how well that DID NOT turn out?

Thread 'Were the four hundred thousand Messianic Jews of the Bar Kochba Revolt grandparents to Palestinians?'

Nov 8, 2025

Messianic Jewish author Sid Roth gives the statistic of 400,000 for the number of Messianic Jews, [followers of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus], living in the Roman Province of Judaea at the time of the Bar Kochba Revolt.

If Sid Roth's statistic is correct could the Palestinians of this last century be largely descended from the first century followers of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus who DID NOT join in the Bar Kochba Revolt and thus were allowed to stay in Roman Judaea and grow olive oil and grain and wine and pay taxes to Rome?

[Sid Roth] :
The first Church was Jewish. If a Gentile wanted to...

• DennisPTate
• Replies: 11
• Forum: History

• 

 

[Lisa558]

Your reply sets the stage for Shalom in the entire Middle East.....
I am trying my best to not exaggerate the value of what you just wrote!
...




That is the answer that the Rabbi's have passed down to you because they accept the world view of Rabbi Akiva who mentored Simon Bar Kochba into initiation of the Bar Kochba Revolt.

My guess is that the Bar Kochba Revolt holds the key to Shalom in the Middle East but the full truth is challenging because there may have been about four hundred thousand Messianic Jews, [followers of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus], living in the Roman Province of Judaea at that time.

Rabbi Akiva felt that as soon as possible Moshiach Simon Bar Kochba, would get rid of the Romans, then he should expel those Messianic Jews.

The scholarship of Mr. Tsvi Misinai puts an interesting possible spin on how well that DID NOT turn out?

Thread 'Were the four hundred thousand Messianic Jews of the Bar Kochba Revolt grandparents to Palestinians?'

Nov 8, 2025

Messianic Jewish author Sid Roth gives the statistic of 400,000 for the number of Messianic Jews, [followers of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus], living in the Roman Province of Judaea at the time of the Bar Kochba Revolt.

If Sid Roth's statistic is correct could the Palestinians of this last century be largely descended from the first century followers of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus who DID NOT join in the Bar Kochba Revolt and thus were allowed to stay in Roman Judaea and grow olive oil and grain and wine and pay taxes to Rome?

[Sid Roth] :
The first Church was Jewish. If a Gentile wanted to...

• DennisPTate
• Replies: 11
• Forum: History

• 

Are you a millennial? Sadly (from my perspective), about 20% of Jews in that generation have veered off course. The Nazis destroyed half of all Jews in the world, and now a percentage of the younger ones are abandoning it of their own volition.

I am sure you disagree, but I - along with the vast majority of Jews - follow the teachings of our religion and do not ascribe supernatural powers to a mortal.

 

[DennisPTate]

Are you a millennial? Sadly (from my perspective), about 20% of Jews in that generation have veered off course. The Nazis destroyed half of all Jews in the world, and now a percentage of the younger ones are abandoning it of their own volition.

I am sure you disagree, but I - along with the vast majority of Jews - follow the teachings of our religion and do not ascribe supernatural powers to a mortal.

I am sixty six years of age but I would be termed Messianic Gentile.

I became an Atheist within a year of so of hearing a Dr. Billy Graham, "Hellfire and Brimstone" sermon on TV, back around 1965 or '66.

Actually I became an Atheist after hearing traditional Darwinian Evolutionary Theory taught in Grade 4, [and voila I had valid reason to believe that Dr. Billy Graham was probably incorrect].

In 1972 or 1973 I was brought up out of Atheism by a Messianic Gentile or Messianic Jewish, friend of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, [Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong].

By 1990 I was going through some serious intellectual problems with the Messianic Gentile Movement due to my research into near death experience accounts.

By the year 2010 I actually wrote an e-mail to a Jerusalem Sanhedrin Rabbi to let him know about the mess that I had gotten myself into. I do suspect that what I wrote may give you a laugh because Rabbi Hollander gave me permission to forward, or copy and paste, significant portions of our conversation publicly to groups of people who I felt could assist with what I had in mind.

Readers of this forum are in a position to assist, with the goal of bringing Shalom to the Middle East, [at the same time that the national debts of the USA and Israel and Canada are exposed as being significantly practical jokes being played on terribly mis-underformed but often deeply religious people in all three of our nations.

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Dennis Tate <..... ..... > wrote:

Shalom Rabbi Hollander: I've been participating on The Sanhedrin message board and I was urged to contact you directly. So far as I know I am probably the first minor Canadian politician who has advocated that my nation assist The Temple Mount Faithful Community, People For A Bill to Build The Bet HaMikdash and The Sanhedriin in your efforts to control the Temple Mount and rebuild your Jerusalem Third Temple. It is my firm belief that semi-reality and reality film series could play an important role in working out the fulfillment of every word spoken in the law and in the prophets. My dad, Robert Stewart Tate, passed away on January 1, 1990. His death came at the same time that I was being confronted with the implications of the near death experience accounts. I went through a theological crisis that I believe has relevance for your SanHedrin. "but the goat on which the lot fell for Aza'zel shall be presented alive before the LORD to make atonement over it, that it may be sent away into the wilderness to Aza'zel." (Leviticus 16:10) I had no problem with the positive near death experiences but those negative ones put me into a philosophical crisis unlike I had ever experienced before. I saw this verse in Leviticus as a possible loophole and I asked that the guilt of Azazel would be put on my head. I prayed and asked The G-d of Abraham if he had any use for a volunteer "goat for Azazel?" If so, then I wanted to submit my application for the job. Several unusual things did occur since that time that I feel indicates that my offer may well have been accepted. I would like to elaborate further on how I feel a volunteer goat for Azazel could perhaps be of use in the working out of latter day events in such a way that the death toll is kept to an absolute minimum. Although I am not certain exactly what a volunteer goat for Azazel should do I have seen a videotape in my head of myself signing currency units while my hand is bleeding. The blood that drips onto a particular part of those currency units, along with many examples of my signature serves to authenticate the validity of these specific currency units for a future in which they could turn out to be quite useful. I hereby offer to The Sanhedrin 22 billion Dennis Tate shekels or dollars, similar to CalgaryDollars.ca or the Ithaca Hour. Bill and Melinda Gates are planning on spending 24 billion US dollars in an effort to make this world a better place. I wish to compete with them. This 22 billion in a sense can be used as props in many reality films that tend to promote peace in the Middle East and the reestablishment of the law of Moshe even in foreign lands. It is my belief that the films that you are guided to produce and direct will greatly increase in value over the coming decades and centuries. Shalom and greetings from Nova Scotia. Dennis Tate

Rabbi Hollander replied to me in less than twenty four hours.

I believe that my e-mail to Rabbi Hollander fits with this general idea as well as with the 1932 Worgl Austria Local Money Experiment that may have greatly assisted F. D. R. to initiate "The New Deal?"

Thread 'To what degree is the national debt of the United States something of a "Malthusian Practical Joke?"'

Nov 18, 2025

It is my belief that the national debt of the United States, [as well as the national debt of Canada], is significantly a practical joke that is being played on us ignorant masses by Neo-Malthusians who control a significant percentage of the real wealth of this world.

I believe that it is important to recognize that these Neo-Malthusians are not stupid people, and they are not necessarily entirely wrong in their beliefs that we humans are too productive.... too creative..... and too destructive to the environment.

In a way that song from the seventies about taking "Paradise and...

• DennisPTate
• Replies: 51
• Forum: Politics

• 
• 
• 

 

[Cassandro]

The answer to your question as to why Jewish rabbis do not quote Jesus is because he has no part in the traditional Jewish religion. He was just a man whose teachings paralleled traditional Jewish thought - that life supersedes all else - so why zero in on what he said? It carries no special weight. (Actually, I’m surprised you would even question why Jewish leaders do not rely on Jesus to “back them up.” )

The concept, known as pikuah nefesh, predates Jesus of course and is discussed widely in the Talmud. Jesus, an observant Jew, was emphasizing that concept to his followers.

If Jesus was an observant Jew whose teachings paralleled traditional Jewish thought, why do the rabbis purposefully ignore him? Do they ignore other historical figures?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

In 1972 or 1973 I was brought up out of Atheism by a Messianic Gentile or Messianic Jewish, friend of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, [Evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong].

I suspected. That was my time as well. GTA, HWA. Flawed men, but God uses flawed men. Sad time to watch the people I loved drift into Protestantism and forsake so much. GTA was a great speaker.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

If Jesus was an observant Jew whose teachings paralleled traditional Jewish thought, why do the rabbis purposefully ignore him? Do they ignore other historical figures?

Because He declared Himself the Son of God. That is blasphemy to their religion.

 

[rosends]

Because He declared Himself the Son of God. That is blasphemy to their religion.

blasphemy? No, that's not.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

blasphemy? No, that's not.

Yeah, that's why. It's what your leaders accused Him of. It's why He was crucified

 

[rosends]

Yeah, that's why. It's what your leaders accused Him of. It's why He was crucified

View attachment 1186937

don't rely on AI. Why not ask an actual Jew?

Blaspheming the name of God requires a specific set of actions. It is a strict theological scenario. It is unrelated to anything in the gospels.

And every Jew can claim to be a son of God. God said so about all Jews (Ex 4:22)

So try again. You are speaking of Jewish law to a rabbi. Try not to make claims unless you have studied the material.

PS -- all this means is that the gospels are wrong. Big shock.

 

[Lisa558]

Because He declared Himself the Son of God. That is blasphemy to their religion.

I know many Jews who don’t think he ever said that, unless he meant in the general sense that he was a child of Gd’s, as are we all.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

PS -- all this means is that the gospels are wrong. Big shock.

This is why we CAN'T rely on a 21st century Jew

 

[rosends]

This is why we CAN'T rely on a 21st century Jew

because a 21st century Jew knows Judaism and you don't? Do you wallow in ignorance in other areas as well?

 

[Lisa558]

This is why we CAN'T rely on a 21st century Jew

So we should listen to what you say instead? I just love the way some Christians explain Judaism to Jews.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

So we should listen to what you say instead?

No, you should listen to many sources.
The Jewish leadership DEMANDED He be put to death for BLASPHEMY.

The Romans refused to get involved

The evil Jewish snakes said, "He makes Himself a king. We have no knowledge ng but Caesar." Rome gave into the pressure of the mob

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I know many Jews who don’t think he ever said that, unless he meant in the general sense that he was a child of Gd’s, as are we all.

Again. This is th 21st century

What did the leaders say in year 33

 

[Carl in Michigan]

This is why He was murdered

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

14&nbsp;They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15&nbsp;“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16&nbsp;Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17&nbsp;Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by f