Is Israel held to different or higher standards?

[montelatici]

"I am aware of living in one of the most racist societies in the western world. Racism is present to some degree everywhere, but in Israel it exists deep within the spirit of the laws. It is taught in schools and colleges, spread in the media, and above all and most dreadful, in Israel the racists do not know what they are doing and, because of this, feel in no way obliged to apologise. This absence of a need for self-justification has made Israel a particularly prized reference point for many movements of the far right throughout the world, movements whose past history of antisemitism is only too well known.
To live in such a society has become increasingly intolerable to me, but I must also admit that it is no less difficult to make my home elsewhere. I am myself a part of the cultural, linguistic and even conceptual production of the Zionist enterprise, and I cannot undo this. By my everyday life and my basic culture I am an Israeli. I am not especially proud of this, just as I have no reason to take pride in being a man with brown eyes and of average height. I am often even ashamed of Israel, particularly when I witness evidence of its cruel military colonisation, with its weak and defenceless victims who are not part of the “chosen people”."
[FONT=Guardian Text Egyptian Web, Georgia, serif]Shlomo Sand: ‘I wish to resign and cease considering myself a Jew’[/FONT]

 

[Indeependent]

i don't think nearly as many americans would have a favorable opinion of israel if religion were not part of the equation for them.

I Believe that I wrote once about the similarities between Americans and Israelis, as matter of fact most of those similarities have nothing to do with religion, its mostly about mentality and events that had impact on societies and opinions.

a largely european background plays into that

Actually, I think it's the inability to take shit from people that plays into that.

think what you want. i stand by the belief that if israel was not a largely jewish nation and if many evangelicals didn't feel a religious obligation to support them israel would have a much less favorable standing with many americans.

i guess what i'm saying is right now people like israel because of religion and they don't care about what israel actually does. if you took religion out of it and people just judged israel on its actions israel would not enjoy the support it currently does.

You mean if Christians saw Jews through revisionist history eyes the way YOU want them to see Jews.

 

[Indeependent]

"I am aware of living in one of the most racist societies in the western world. Racism is present to some degree everywhere, but in Israel it exists deep within the spirit of the laws. It is taught in schools and colleges, spread in the media, and above all and most dreadful, in Israel the racists do not know what they are doing and, because of this, feel in no way obliged to apologise. This absence of a need for self-justification has made Israel a particularly prized reference point for many movements of the far right throughout the world, movements whose past history of antisemitism is only too well known.
To live in such a society has become increasingly intolerable to me, but I must also admit that it is no less difficult to make my home elsewhere. I am myself a part of the cultural, linguistic and even conceptual production of the Zionist enterprise, and I cannot undo this. By my everyday life and my basic culture I am an Israeli. I am not especially proud of this, just as I have no reason to take pride in being a man with brown eyes and of average height. I am often even ashamed of Israel, particularly when I witness evidence of its cruel military colonisation, with its weak and defenceless victims who are not part of the “chosen people”."
[FONT=Guardian Text Egyptian Web, Georgia, serif]Shlomo Sand: ‘I wish to resign and cease considering myself a Jew’[/FONT]

What WILL the Jews do without Shlomo Sand?

 

[ogibillm]

i don't think nearly as many americans would have a favorable opinion of israel if religion were not part of the equation for them.

I Believe that I wrote once about the similarities between Americans and Israelis, as matter of fact most of those similarities have nothing to do with religion, its mostly about mentality and events that had impact on societies and opinions.

a largely european background plays into that

Actually, I think it's the inability to take shit from people that plays into that.

think what you want. i stand by the belief that if israel was not a largely jewish nation and if many evangelicals didn't feel a religious obligation to support them israel would have a much less favorable standing with many americans.

i guess what i'm saying is right now people like israel because of religion and they don't care about what israel actually does. if you took religion out of it and people just judged israel on its actions israel would not enjoy the support it currently does.

You mean if Christians saw Jews through revisionist history eyes the way YOU want them to see Jews.

how hard is "if religion wasn't a part of it" for you to understand?

 

[Indeependent]

I Believe that I wrote once about the similarities between Americans and Israelis, as matter of fact most of those similarities have nothing to do with religion, its mostly about mentality and events that had impact on societies and opinions.

a largely european background plays into that

Actually, I think it's the inability to take shit from people that plays into that.

think what you want. i stand by the belief that if israel was not a largely jewish nation and if many evangelicals didn't feel a religious obligation to support them israel would have a much less favorable standing with many americans.

i guess what i'm saying is right now people like israel because of religion and they don't care about what israel actually does. if you took religion out of it and people just judged israel on its actions israel would not enjoy the support it currently does.

You mean if Christians saw Jews through revisionist history eyes the way YOU want them to see Jews.

how hard is "if religion wasn't a part of it" for you to understand?

Pretty difficult seeing as how religion started LONG before atheism and is still going quite strong.
The issue is that YOU have difficulties dealing with reality in terms of Israel.
Jews and Christians have far more in common in terms of being civilized than ANYBODY has in common with Islam.
In fact, the ONLY reason the US doesn't blow most of Islam off the face of the Middle Eastern map is OIL.

 

[Daniyel]

i don't think nearly as many americans would have a favorable opinion of israel if religion were not part of the equation for them.

I Believe that I wrote once about the similarities between Americans and Israelis, as matter of fact most of those similarities have nothing to do with religion, its mostly about mentality and events that had impact on societies and opinions.

a largely european background plays into that

Actually, I think it's the inability to take shit from people that plays into that.

think what you want. i stand by the belief that if israel was not a largely jewish nation and if many evangelicals didn't feel a religious obligation to support them israel would have a much less favorable standing with many americans.

i guess what i'm saying is right now people like israel because of religion and they don't care about what israel actually does. if you took religion out of it and people just judged israel on its actions israel would not enjoy the support it currently does.

Of course religion plays a massive role in the conflict and PR just like anywhere else, luckily in favor with Americans, unluckily not in a greatest favor in the ME, but don't you forget its also what have gotten Israel into the lions den in the first place, give it a thought, what if the Palestinians were actually Jews?

 

[Daniyel]

i don't think nearly as many americans would have a favorable opinion of israel if religion were not part of the equation for them.

I Believe that I wrote once about the similarities between Americans and Israelis, as matter of fact most of those similarities have nothing to do with religion, its mostly about mentality and events that had impact on societies and opinions.

a largely european background plays into that

In some way you are correct, Israel and the US are both nations of migrants.

 

[Coyote]

i don't think nearly as many americans would have a favorable opinion of israel if religion were not part of the equation for them.

I Believe that I wrote once about the similarities between Americans and Israelis, as matter of fact most of those similarities have nothing to do with religion, its mostly about mentality and events that had impact on societies and opinions.

a largely european background plays into that

In some way you are correct, Israel and the US are both nations of migrants.

Which must make for interesting domestic politics

 

[theliq]

This came up on another thread, thought it might be interesting to discuss.

Some of the things that came up as possible points of discussion:

the right to defend one's national integrity and citizens
the right to prevent an enemy from gaining weapons (ie. a naval blockade)
the necessity of giving up your holy sites in exchange for peace
the requirement to "correct" the escape from conflict or deportations of populations (especially post WWII)
the labelling of goods by the EU (contrast Cyprus or Western Sahara)

I'm sure we will come up with others.

Please, this is not the place to discuss false accusations such as genocide against or slavery of the Palestinians, open air prisons, concentration camps, apartheid. Although this certainly represents how Israel experiences a double standard and a change of meaning for commonly understood words, it is not the focus of this thread. Feel free to start your own.

Answer me this......How can Israel/Zionists be held up to a HIGHER STANDARD,WHEN THEY HAVE NO STANDARDS..........

 

[Penelope]

If Israel was held to different standards, the rest of the world probably would have done something to stop their settlements by now and taken control of Gaza and the West Bank away from them.

How's the world doing with Boko Harem? How'd it do 1/3 of all Cambodians were slaughtered? How's the world doing in Yemen? Chad?

<insert sound of crickets here>

The world only focuses on that tiny strip of sand for only one reason - Gods chosen people are living there and it's been the center of the world for the past 3,000 years because of it.

Who says they are God's chosen, oh they do.

 

[Penelope]

i don't think nearly as many americans would have a favorable opinion of israel if religion were not part of the equation for them.

When Wall Street talks, politicians listen.
And Wall Street LOVES Israel; even the evil Liberals on Wall Street.

That is because Wall Street is full of those who call themselves jews.

 

[Penelope]

a largely european background plays into that

Actually, I think it's the inability to take shit from people that plays into that.

think what you want. i stand by the belief that if israel was not a largely jewish nation and if many evangelicals didn't feel a religious obligation to support them israel would have a much less favorable standing with many americans.

i guess what i'm saying is right now people like israel because of religion and they don't care about what israel actually does. if you took religion out of it and people just judged israel on its actions israel would not enjoy the support it currently does.

You mean if Christians saw Jews through revisionist history eyes the way YOU want them to see Jews.

how hard is "if religion wasn't a part of it" for you to understand?

Pretty difficult seeing as how religion started LONG before atheism and is still going quite strong.
The issue is that YOU have difficulties dealing with reality in terms of Israel.
Jews and Christians have far more in common in terms of being civilized than ANYBODY has in common with Islam.
In fact, the ONLY reason the US doesn't blow most of Islam off the face of the Middle Eastern map is OIL.

The religious Jews, Orthodox are like fundamentalist and evangelical Christians, most of those in Israel are secular and would love to do away with religion and Israel was to be set up
as a secular state. Christians do not see Christianity as a race or culture, its a religious belief, same as Judaism, and in that respect , few Jews live in Israel, and those that do are not getting along with the secular community, and really none of them seem to like Christians.

 

[RoccoR]

Shusha, et al,

A couple of these issues are really part of a larger discussion; just approached more narrowly.

Some of the things that came up as possible points of discussion:

• the right to defend one's national integrity and citizens
• the right to prevent an enemy from gaining weapons (ie. a naval blockade)

(THUMBNAIL BACKGROUND)

• Article # 42 --- The Hague Convention of 1907: Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.

• UN Charter Chapter I --- Article 2(4) All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

• UN Charter Chapter VII --- Article 51: Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective selfdefense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of selfdefense shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

• The UN Security calls for Member States to implement a number of measures intended to enhance their legal and institutional ability to counter terrorist activities, including taking steps to:

• Criminalize the financing of terrorism
• Freeze without delay any funds related to persons involved in acts of terrorism
• Deny all forms of financial support for terrorist groups
• Suppress the provision of safe haven, sustenance or support for terrorists
• Share information with other governments on any groups practicing or planning terrorist acts
• Cooperate with other governments in the investigation, detection, arrest, extradition and prosecution of those involved in such acts; and
• Criminalize active and passive assistance for terrorism in domestic law and bring violators to justice.

• 2. Decides [S/RES/1373 (2001)] also that all States shall:

(a) Refrain from providing any form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts, including by suppressing recruitment of members of terrorist groups and eliminating the supply of weapons to terrorists;​

• Israeli unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip was completed by September 12, 2005.

(COMMENT)

I simply don't think that a reasonable person can come to any other conclusion:

• Israel has the right to defend one's national integrity and citizens
• Israel has the right to prevent an enemy from gaining weapons (ie. a naval blockade)

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[theliq]

Shusha, et al,

A couple of these issues are really part of a larger discussion; just approached more narrowly.

Some of the things that came up as possible points of discussion:

• the right to defend one's national integrity and citizens
• the right to prevent an enemy from gaining weapons (ie. a naval blockade)

(THUMBNAIL BACKGROUND)

• Article # 42 --- The Hague Convention of 1907: Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.

• UN Charter Chapter I --- Article 2(4) All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

• UN Charter Chapter VII --- Article 51: Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective selfdefense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of selfdefense shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

• The UN Security calls for Member States to implement a number of measures intended to enhance their legal and institutional ability to counter terrorist activities, including taking steps to:

• Criminalize the financing of terrorism
• Freeze without delay any funds related to persons involved in acts of terrorism
• Deny all forms of financial support for terrorist groups
• Suppress the provision of safe haven, sustenance or support for terrorists
• Share information with other governments on any groups practicing or planning terrorist acts
• Cooperate with other governments in the investigation, detection, arrest, extradition and prosecution of those involved in such acts; and
• Criminalize active and passive assistance for terrorism in domestic law and bring violators to justice.

• 2. Decides [S/RES/1373 (2001)] also that all States shall:

(a) Refrain from providing any form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts, including by suppressing recruitment of members of terrorist groups and eliminating the supply of weapons to terrorists;​

• Israeli unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip was completed by September 12, 2005.

(COMMENT)

I simply don't think that a reasonable person can come to any other conclusion:

• Israel has the right to defend one's national integrity and citizens
• Israel has the right to prevent an enemy from gaining weapons (ie. a naval blockade)

Most Respectfully,
R

Fine story Rocco,BUT.......by your appraisal poor Old Israel would be the 1st Country to have any funds Frozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzen.steve

 

[RoccoR]

Shusha, et al,

On the matter of: Q: Is Israel held to different or higher standards?
(COMMENT)

This is not so much a "double standard" --- as it is a case of "selective enforcement."

In the case of the conflict, the UN chooses to amplify the Article 2(4) (in favor of the Palestinians), and deemphasize and discount Article 51 (in favor of the Israelis).

• UN Charter Chapter I --- Article 2(4) All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

• UN Charter Chapter VII --- Article 51: Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective selfdefense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of selfdefense shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.
​

In the case of the Blockade and Apartheid, the UN exaggerates the definition of Apartheid and a Blockade --- and instead discount or disregard Article 68 of the Geneva Convention; and Article 2 of S/RES/1373 (2001). And the UN chooses to ignore the Palestinian past history of criminal and psychotic behaviors.

Decides also that all States shall: (a) Refrain from providing any form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts, including by suppressing recruitment of members of terrorist groups and eliminating the supply of weapons to terrorists;
​

The Border Wall/Barriers, have nothing to do with "Apartheid." Each nation had the right to territorial integrity. And as the Palestinians are so fond of say, the defunct Green Line is no longer applicable; and has not been since 1995. But even if the Green Line was still applicable, it is not a true border. A border is perimeter of an area in which a state exercises Sovereign Authority. The UN absolutely fails to admit into evidence the physical boundary of control.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[ogibillm]

i don't think nearly as many americans would have a favorable opinion of israel if religion were not part of the equation for them.

I Believe that I wrote once about the similarities between Americans and Israelis, as matter of fact most of those similarities have nothing to do with religion, its mostly about mentality and events that had impact on societies and opinions.

a largely european background plays into that

Actually, I think it's the inability to take shit from people that plays into that.

think what you want. i stand by the belief that if israel was not a largely jewish nation and if many evangelicals didn't feel a religious obligation to support them israel would have a much less favorable standing with many americans.

i guess what i'm saying is right now people like israel because of religion and they don't care about what israel actually does. if you took religion out of it and people just judged israel on its actions israel would not enjoy the support it currently does.

Of course religion plays a massive role in the conflict and PR just like anywhere else, luckily in favor with Americans, unluckily not in a greatest favor in the ME, but don't you forget its also what have gotten Israel into the lions den in the first place, give it a thought, what if the Palestinians were actually Jews?

flip the religion on its head and there's no way that the people or government of the United States would support israel

 

[Daniyel]

I Believe that I wrote once about the similarities between Americans and Israelis, as matter of fact most of those similarities have nothing to do with religion, its mostly about mentality and events that had impact on societies and opinions.

a largely european background plays into that

Actually, I think it's the inability to take shit from people that plays into that.

think what you want. i stand by the belief that if israel was not a largely jewish nation and if many evangelicals didn't feel a religious obligation to support them israel would have a much less favorable standing with many americans.

i guess what i'm saying is right now people like israel because of religion and they don't care about what israel actually does. if you took religion out of it and people just judged israel on its actions israel would not enjoy the support it currently does.

Of course religion plays a massive role in the conflict and PR just like anywhere else, luckily in favor with Americans, unluckily not in a greatest favor in the ME, but don't you forget its also what have gotten Israel into the lions den in the first place, give it a thought, what if the Palestinians were actually Jews?

flip the religion on its head and there's no way that the people or government of the United States would support israel

This is what I was trying to tell you, however, let's stick to that idea, let's say Americans were Muslims.

 

[ogibillm]

a largely european background plays into that

Actually, I think it's the inability to take shit from people that plays into that.

think what you want. i stand by the belief that if israel was not a largely jewish nation and if many evangelicals didn't feel a religious obligation to support them israel would have a much less favorable standing with many americans.

i guess what i'm saying is right now people like israel because of religion and they don't care about what israel actually does. if you took religion out of it and people just judged israel on its actions israel would not enjoy the support it currently does.

Of course religion plays a massive role in the conflict and PR just like anywhere else, luckily in favor with Americans, unluckily not in a greatest favor in the ME, but don't you forget its also what have gotten Israel into the lions den in the first place, give it a thought, what if the Palestinians were actually Jews?

flip the religion on its head and there's no way that the people or government of the United States would support israel

This is what I was trying to tell you, however, let's stick to that idea, let's say Americans were Muslims.

then we're right back where we started.

my point though is with all other things being equal if americans only judged israel by its actions we would not support them

 

[RoccoR]

theliq, et al,

It went over my head.

Shusha, et al,

A couple of these issues are really part of a larger discussion; just approached more narrowly.

Some of the things that came up as possible points of discussion:

• the right to defend one's national integrity and citizens
• the right to prevent an enemy from gaining weapons (ie. a naval blockade)

(THUMBNAIL BACKGROUND)

• Article # 42 --- The Hague Convention of 1907: Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.
The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.

• UN Charter Chapter I --- Article 2(4) All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.

• UN Charter Chapter VII --- Article 51: Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective selfdefense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of selfdefense shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

• The UN Security calls for Member States to implement a number of measures intended to enhance their legal and institutional ability to counter terrorist activities, including taking steps to:

• Criminalize the financing of terrorism
• Freeze without delay any funds related to persons involved in acts of terrorism
• Deny all forms of financial support for terrorist groups
• Suppress the provision of safe haven, sustenance or support for terrorists
• Share information with other governments on any groups practicing or planning terrorist acts
• Cooperate with other governments in the investigation, detection, arrest, extradition and prosecution of those involved in such acts; and
• Criminalize active and passive assistance for terrorism in domestic law and bring violators to justice.

• 2. Decides [S/RES/1373 (2001)] also that all States shall:

(a) Refrain from providing any form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts, including by suppressing recruitment of members of terrorist groups and eliminating the supply of weapons to terrorists;​

• Israeli unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip was completed by September 12, 2005.

(COMMENT)

I simply don't think that a reasonable person can come to any other conclusion:

• Israel has the right to defend one's national integrity and citizens
• Israel has the right to prevent an enemy from gaining weapons (ie. a naval blockade)

Most Respectfully,
R

Fine story Rocco,BUT.......by your appraisal poor Old Israel would be the 1st Country to have any funds Frozzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzen.steve

(COMMENT)

I as I see it, the US would not freeze funds on your assumption, nor would it consider it for Israel. basis:

ON THE ONE-HAND, you have: Israel, the highest ranking country for human development for the entire Middle East and Gulf Coast Region:

Israel, which is more than half a century old,has a inherent right to defend and protect its sovereign territorial integrity and political independence from the excesses of radicalized Islamic elements, the same as any other country.

Israel is entitled to inherent right of individual or collective self defense, the same as any other country.

Israel refrains from supporting, active or passive, to entities involved in suicide attacks, shootings, kidnapping, murder, rocket and mortar attacks, airline hijackings and ship piracy, and public international attacks.

Israel is involved in the active suppressing recruitment of members by terrorist groups and eliminating the supply of weapons to terrorists; thereby reducing the threat to peace by attacks from radicalized Islamic elements and other Hostile Arab Palestinians.
​

ON THE OTHER-HAND, you have Palestine, in terms of human development, it barely ranks above Syria which is in chaos and near open war.

Palestine has a right to defend any territory it maintained the integrity and sovereignty over. Does Palestine have any?

Palestine has an official policy not to recognize its neighbor (one wonders who they are occupied by --- the country with no name).

Palestine has an official policy not to negotiate with the Occupation Power (with no name).

Palestine has a policy not to have peace and to pursue Jihad against the Occupation Power with no name.

Palestine has a policy to target civilians indiscriminately and directly through asymmetric ground force operations, kidnapping, and murder; unarmed civilians.

Palestine will use any and all means, to include the use of humanitarian shipments, border breaching tunneling, and any other avenue to smuggle weapons into the country with the intention of furthering hostile activity.
​

When we talk about the distinctive differences, we are talking differences that have been a part of the Palestinian History, a long time. On of the basic Principles of International Law concerning the Co-operation among States (A/RES/25/2625) is:

• 
  Every State has the duty to refrain in its international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations. Such a threat or use of force constitutes a violation of international law and the Charter of the United Nations and shall never be employed as a means of settling international issues.

While not law, it parallels the concepts that peace is the object; and Jihad is not the means to that end.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Daniyel]

Actually, I think it's the inability to take shit from people that plays into that.

think what you want. i stand by the belief that if israel was not a largely jewish nation and if many evangelicals didn't feel a religious obligation to support them israel would have a much less favorable standing with many americans.

i guess what i'm saying is right now people like israel because of religion and they don't care about what israel actually does. if you took religion out of it and people just judged israel on its actions israel would not enjoy the support it currently does.

Of course religion plays a massive role in the conflict and PR just like anywhere else, luckily in favor with Americans, unluckily not in a greatest favor in the ME, but don't you forget its also what have gotten Israel into the lions den in the first place, give it a thought, what if the Palestinians were actually Jews?

flip the religion on its head and there's no way that the people or government of the United States would support israel

This is what I was trying to tell you, however, let's stick to that idea, let's say Americans were Muslims.

then we're right back where we started.

my point though is with all other things being equal if americans only judged israel by its actions we would not support them

Actually you didn't quite considered Israel / Palestinians religions in your equation, and we already named one similarity among many others between Israel and US (aside from religion) that were most likely would have their impact, however, taking one factor out of the equation is not something that can easily be calculated since the establishment of the US and the constitutional spirit are highly influenced by religion, basically I'd say that we can't really get to the bottom of this with even the slightest accuracy.