Is in vitro fertilization murder?

[bennylava]

I'm curious as to what people here think of this. Do you believe that the freezing and subsequent destruction of unimplanted frozen embroys created for in vitro fertilization is the same thing as abortion? I mean morally?
Do you think that using these unwanted embryos for stem cell research and therapy is the same thing as just destroying them morally?

If you are prolife, do you believe that it should be wrong for people to create embryos they don't use?

 

[AllieBaba]

Yes.

 

[jillian]

That's just sick.

 

[bennylava]

What is sick?

 

[jillian]

That it would be wrong to create embryos that are frozen. That makes no sense to me.

If it were up to me, they'd be used for stem cell research. Such a waste to leave them there. But the whole conccept that it could somehow be wrong to avail oneself of a miracle of science. I just don't get it.

 

[bennylava]

If I remember correctly, the would-be parents have to keep paying to keep their embryos frozen, and if they don't, they get destroyed.
I don't know much about the process but I don't know why they have to create so many at one time?

 

[jillian]

If I remember correctly, the would-be parents have to keep paying to keep their embryos frozen, and if they don't, they get destroyed.
I don't know much about the process but I don't know why they have to create so many at one time?

Because you create as many as the meds let you create. There isn't any control over the number of eggs produced. A woman is given a series of injections that stimulate production of eggs. Then there's no guarantee over how many become fertilized. Out of 20, some people might get 1 that takes. Others might get 20. Also, some people have to make four and five attempts at in vitro before it works. The number of embryo emplanted are governed by the age of the woman. For some it's 3, for others, 4, still others 5 are implanted. After that, they watch to see how many "take". The leftover pre-embryos are frozen for subsequent use or not.

 

[AllieBaba]

That's just sick.

Let's make litters of babies, then kill them off when we don't want them.

Heaven forbid these women actually consider adoption..which might actually reduce abortion.

No, let's have more abortions...and eliminate any chance that an unwanted baby might get a home.

 

[jillian]

oh right.... because some religious ideologue says that life begins when sperm meets egg deserving women shouldn't be able to have kids.

nuts.

 

[AllieBaba]

Just because some child-hating scientist says that babies aren't really babies before they're born, let's make lots of them and then kill them off.

 

[bennylava]

Well Alliebaba, at least you're not a hypocrite about it. I give you that.
What gets me are the people who claim to be prolife and then don't give a thought to the embryos destroyed in fertility clinics.

What really gets to me are the people who end up with six of the embryos "taking" who choose to keep them all, knowing that they will end up having handicaps and needing special care their whole lives. It just doesn't seem fair to do that. And they say "well I don't want to play god." Guess what, when you do IVF you're already playing god.

 

[jillian]

Just because some child-hating scientist says that babies aren't really babies before they're born, let's make lots of them and then kill them off.

Actually my religion says that, too. Would you like to tell me what my religion should be?

They aren't babies at conception.

 

[jillian]

Well Alliebaba, at least you're not a hypocrite about it. I give you that.
What gets me are the people who claim to be prolife and then don't give a thought to the embryos destroyed in fertility clinics.

What really gets to me are the people who end up with six of the embryos "taking" who choose to keep them all, knowing that they will end up having handicaps and needing special care their whole lives. It just doesn't seem fair to do that. And they say "well I don't want to play god." Guess what, when you do IVF you're already playing god.

sure she is. ask her how she feels about the death penalty or the war in Iraq.

 

[AllieBaba]

Well Alliebaba, at least you're not a hypocrite about it. I give you that.
What gets me are the people who claim to be prolife and then don't give a thought to the embryos destroyed in fertility clinics.

What really gets to me are the people who end up with six of the embryos "taking" who choose to keep them all, knowing that they will end up having handicaps and needing special care their whole lives. It just doesn't seem fair to do that. And they say "well I don't want to play god." Guess what, when you do IVF you're already playing god.

What gets me are the people who claim to be pro-choice...when in reality, they aren't pro-choice at all. They think those who choose differently than they would are stupid, are yahoos, are ignorant, and shouldn't be afforded the opportunity to actually choose. What also gets me is that they claim to be all about promoting abortion to save lives...when in actuality it's anything but. They're preserving the right to terminate life. It has nothing to do with saving lives...not the life of the mother, which is neglible to most prolifers, or the child. Most pro-lifers will tell you we shouldn't be bringing new babies into this terrible world, and the best thing for everybody is to limit the ability of women to give birth.

Unless those women have money, in which case they should be given a carte blanche to kill off as many babies as they want. In order to have a baby they really LIKE.

 

[Shogun]

Just because some child-hating scientist says that babies aren't really babies before they're born, let's make lots of them and then kill them off.

Human ZYGOTE /= a fetus

I almost forgot...



GIRL FIGHT!


ok, who brought the jello?

 

[AllieBaba]

Jill, you're coming across as embittered and petty. Again. Poor thing. Life's many disappointments has obviously left its mark on you....

 

[jillian]

Jill, you're coming across as embittered and petty. Again. Poor thing. Life's many disappointments has obviously left its mark on you....

Actually, cookie. My life is great. It's your's that sounds nasty, petty and bitter. Again, your repeatedly saying the same garbage over and over in the hopes that someone will actually believe you is kind of pathetic.

Difference is, I feel really sorry for someone as nasty and angry as you are. You really should seek counseling. Might make your life more successful.

 

[AllieBaba]

Aw, hon..can't think of anything original (that means, something of your own and not stolen from somebody with a better mind...) to say?

That's okay. I'm sure all the poor, downtrodden, stupid and unsuccessful women out there you think you ought to be getting abortions are really grateful to you for standing up for their right to abortion. Even if you don't really think they have a right to anything else.

 

[bennylava]

"Most pro-lifers will tell you we shouldn't be bringing new babies into this terrible world, and the best thing for everybody is to limit the ability of women to give birth."

What?!?! You are making no sense.

Hmmm...I am pro-choice and I had a baby completely by choice! What a concept. I don't hate children, I love them. I think it's a beautiful thing when people choose to bring children into this world.
I think that you have a vast amount of misconceptions about prochoice people.

 

[jillian]

Let me give you a little life lesson, snookie... I don't care what choices you make for yourself. You can have 10 kids if I'm not paying for them. But you don't get to decide what my religion or anyone else considers "life". You're not near smart enough, wise enough or cogent enough.

And that's the problem with the rabid right.... y'all think you get to decide these "moral" issues for others. Why not try just making your own moral judgments?