Is homosexuality a biological construct?

[Iceweasel]

Let's Make America Great Again!

Let's make America straight again!

It never was, and never will be.

Yeah it was, no fag parades, no fag marriage, no fags forcing you to bake their stupid cakes, etc .....

Wife-beating America is a thing of the past. Move on, the US has.

Huh? Oh, you must be a fag. Can't think straight.

 

[Jack4jill]

Let's Make America Great Again!

Let's make America straight again!

It never was, and never will be.

Yeah it was, no fag parades, no fag marriage, no fags forcing you to bake their stupid cakes, etc .....

Wife-beating America is a thing of the past. Move on, the US has.

Huh? Oh, you must be a fag. Can't think straight.

What I am is not what you, living in the past.

 

[PK1]

I did the math, if you flip the demographics, and instead of 90% + being hetro, and made that Population (and all future generations) 90% homosexual, the population of human beings in the United States would be zero within 11 generations.

That's also giving those populations every benefit. Each hetro female having 4 children and no hetro female dies before they too had 4 children.

It's all in the math.
As far as our species in concerned, heterosexually is ultimately important and homosexuality is a dead end street.

---
Your math is meaningless when accompanied by flawed logic.
Garbage in, garbage out.

Over MANY generations, homosexuality has not been a dead end, has it?
Homosexuality may actually be adaptive!
Evolution works at the group level, not only the individual level.
.

The math shows how unimportant homosexuality is.

If it truley is a dead end, those practicing it have no perception beyond their own lifespan. A hetro had a much larger, more long range need to keep the world a good place to live for their future generations.

---
Your math, without scientific grounding, is meaningless.
Homosexuals that don't reproduce (<5% of general population) may be more empathic & responsible than hetero or bisexual people, and often maintain meaningful family relationships (if parents are not bigoted).
Nowadays, there are many hetero couples who don't reproduce too,
.

I think our world would be better off if less people reproduced overall... It's getting crowded up in here!

---
Agreed. The successful Homo sapiens should give other species a break, esp in the expanding urban areas.
.

 

[Iceweasel]

Let's make America straight again!

It never was, and never will be.

Yeah it was, no fag parades, no fag marriage, no fags forcing you to bake their stupid cakes, etc .....

Wife-beating America is a thing of the past. Move on, the US has.

Huh? Oh, you must be a fag. Can't think straight.

What I am is not what you, living in the past.

I just point out some current problems so no, I'm not living in the past. You went off on an emotional knee jerk reaction there.

 

[Slade3200]

It never was, and never will be.

Yeah it was, no fag parades, no fag marriage, no fags forcing you to bake their stupid cakes, etc .....

Wife-beating America is a thing of the past. Move on, the US has.

Huh? Oh, you must be a fag. Can't think straight.

What I am is not what you, living in the past.

I just point out some current problems so no, I'm not living in the past. You went off on an emotional knee jerk reaction there.

You not pointing much out... Your being an asshole with all the fag talk. Probably getting your jollies off trying to rile people up. Whatever floats your boat man, you're a joke in most people's eyes

 

[Iceweasel]

Yeah it was, no fag parades, no fag marriage, no fags forcing you to bake their stupid cakes, etc .....

Wife-beating America is a thing of the past. Move on, the US has.

Huh? Oh, you must be a fag. Can't think straight.

What I am is not what you, living in the past.

I just point out some current problems so no, I'm not living in the past. You went off on an emotional knee jerk reaction there.

You not pointing much out... Your being an asshole with all the fag talk. Probably getting your jollies off trying to rile people up. Whatever floats your boat man, you're a joke in most people's eyes

Aw, I hurt your feelings? Good. What I said is true though, that's why it really bothers you. And you don't speak for most people, you stupid cocksucker.

 

[Jack4jill]

It never was, and never will be.

Yeah it was, no fag parades, no fag marriage, no fags forcing you to bake their stupid cakes, etc .....

Wife-beating America is a thing of the past. Move on, the US has.

Huh? Oh, you must be a fag. Can't think straight.

What I am is not what you, living in the past.

I just point out some current problems so no, I'm not living in the past. You went off on an emotional knee jerk reaction there.

Nothing knee-jerk about it. Your world is long gone.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, scientists and doctors have gotten much better at identifying various anomalies in the human body, because we have got better equipment that can see more of the body than ever before. I'm speaking specifically of brain scans.

Now, scientists have interviewed a pretty decent selection of people, and they found out that the brains of gay males and straight females are remarkably similar, and they also found that the brains of gay females and straight males are remarkably similar as well.

They seem to think that sexuality may be determined not by the genes that one has, but rather by the way the brain develops in the womb. The brain structure is different, and because of that, it's the reason that people are gay or straight. Also explains why one twin can be gay, and the other one is straight. Even though they have the same genetics, their brain structure may be different.

Homosexuality in the Brain | Brain Blogger

So no, being gay isn't really a choice that you can make, because your brain is hard wired to love who you love.

 

[Slade3200]

Wife-beating America is a thing of the past. Move on, the US has.

Huh? Oh, you must be a fag. Can't think straight.

What I am is not what you, living in the past.

I just point out some current problems so no, I'm not living in the past. You went off on an emotional knee jerk reaction there.

You not pointing much out... Your being an asshole with all the fag talk. Probably getting your jollies off trying to rile people up. Whatever floats your boat man, you're a joke in most people's eyes

Aw, I hurt your feelings? Good. What I said is true though, that's why it really bothers you. And you don't speak for most people, you stupid cocksucker.

You didn't hurt my feelings, I don't care what you say or think... Hearing truth doesn't bother me, I search for truth... Does truth bother you? I can only assume it does since you made that accusation for me. I don't need to speak for most people, the voice of the majority has spoken and that is why our laws and society has evolved like it has and it will continue to do so. Your mind is closed so you may not see it l, I'm simple stating what the majority has said. Go back to your cave

 

[emilynghiem]

Historically I believe that homosexuality was typically considered a social construct, in which any person had the potential to develop gay attractions if in the right situation (ex. prison inmates having gay relations due to isolation from women).

It seems like only in recent times has homosexuality been touted as a biological construct and an "identity" put on the same level as sex and race.

I'm wondering what exactly sparked all of this hubub; as there's definitely no conclusive evidence that homosexuality is "genetic" or that people are "born that way" despite activist claims.

Dear IndependantAce
I think you are talking about 2-3 different situations
1. One that you mention is by culture, something external.
There is a term for this type of practice when it is cultural, as Greeks used to practice it.
The prison culture also has homosexual sex as part of the culture and not necessarily
based on romantic attraction but for functional purposes of sex.

Of the behavior that is based on personal romantic or spiritual attraction,
there are some cases that are by birth and others caused by abuse or other unnatural situations later

2. by birth
some people report they have always felt they were transgender or homosexual
all their lives
some research is looking into the chemistry in the mother's womb that could
possible correlate with altering the perception of gender or some other brain development
that could explain people being born with predilection to the opposite gender than
they are physically

the theory I believe is this is spiritual, and whether influenced by nature or nurture,
if people are meant to go through this condition in life in order to face certain issues
and overcome different struggles it is part of karma that is being worked off
which wasn't resolved in the past and is manifesting in future relations to be worked out
what breaks the cycle of karma from repeating is choosing forgiveness and healing
so the conditions do not cause more harm or suffering; what repeats the cycle is
adding more negativity to the conflicts. so the higher point purpose and path is
to choose to undo the layers of suffering already compiling, instead of adding more on to the pile.
Until this lesson is learned, more and more adverse situation escalate, forcing a resolution
at some point to end this destructive pattern.

3. by unnatural causes such as abuse
for cases where people have been able to be healed and change their orientation or gender identity
if it wasn't natural for them, and return to their natural default state,
many of these report suffering abuse or other issues
so that when these are forgiven and healed, the attached reactions also changed.
Again, this is why I believe a spiritual process is the real focus,
regardless if people can change or not, and regardless what causes their conditions or the changes.

The best source I recommend for understanding the spiritual changes and process
is Dr. Francis MacNutt who wrote a short book on this "Can Homosexuality be Healed"
because so many people either for gay rights or against homosexuality were getting it wrong and spreading misinformation. the correct answer is yes and no. In some cases yes, in other cases no.
So people are getting it wrong if they say "all cases are natural and none can be changed"
or if they say "no cases are natural and all can be changed"

That is why MacNutt and his wife are right in saying we cannot judge.
And with their nonjudgmental approach, they have successfully helped more
people to heal than any of these people issuing condemnations that have likely
driven more people to suicide instead. Very sad.

I cited an interview with Drs. Francis and Judith MacNutt here on a link by
a Canadian poster who raves on and on against homosexual agenda:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/threa...-a-real-education.401683/page-4#post-10775996

Their nonprofit ministry in spiritual healing is one of the few I recommend and trust
as being 100% on the right track, with absolutely no complaints of abuse fraud or any negative reports.

So to answer your question, these conditions have always been present;
and with our modern society, openly sharing research and personal experiences online, we have full access to information and history to discuss these things that we didn't before.

It's like all the family incest stories coming out of the closet,
now that we have the freedom of speech and media access to share openly.
and we have the ability to research these things, and share the findings as well.

In MacNutt's book on homosexuality he cites research on identical twins.
If homosexuality was purely genetic there would be 100% match in orientation.
But at most research shows 53% rate of having the same orientation.
So it's not 100%, but curiously enough it isn't random at 50/50
there is a slight predilection or tendency. So it can be argued
there is a tendency that is genetically inherited, but studies show it isn't 100% predetermined by that.
There are arguably environmental or social factors that influence orientation beyond genetics.
So that is where the argument comes that it is behavioral and a choice.

Spiritually I do not think it is anyone's choice to be born that way
or to be born into a life that will lead to that; but once we understand
the karma that causes adverse situations to manifest in life, we
can overcome that karma and restore stable relations. From my
experience with people, I've seen people go through spiritual healing
and come out transgender, or homosexual or heterosexual. They come
to peace with their natural state, whatever it is. So as long as they are
at peace and aren't acting out of suppression or abuse, I assume that
default state is what is natural for them and I trust them to be honest about it.

If people are still in a state of recovery and aren't resolved and at peace,
they are honest and transparent about that too. You can't hide if you
have forgiven or not forgiven things.

 

[emilynghiem]

You know, scientists and doctors have gotten much better at identifying various anomalies in the human body, because we have got better equipment that can see more of the body than ever before. I'm speaking specifically of brain scans.

Now, scientists have interviewed a pretty decent selection of people, and they found out that the brains of gay males and straight females are remarkably similar, and they also found that the brains of gay females and straight males are remarkably similar as well.

They seem to think that sexuality may be determined not by the genes that one has, but rather by the way the brain develops in the womb. The brain structure is different, and because of that, it's the reason that people are gay or straight. Also explains why one twin can be gay, and the other one is straight. Even though they have the same genetics, their brain structure may be different.

Homosexuality in the Brain | Brain Blogger

So no, being gay isn't really a choice that you can make, because your brain is hard wired to love who you love.

Yes and no ABikerSailor

How do you explain Chirlane McCray the wife of the NY Mayor who used to identify as lesbian,
even writing a book about her experienced, but changed when she fell in love with her current
husband she calls the love of her life:
De Blasio’s wife Chirlane McCray talks about lesbian past

How do you explain all these people who could change:
People Can Change - An alternative, healing response to unwanted homosexual desires.

I had this discussion with Inevitable who said if these people were now heterosexual
that's what they were born in the first place, so they weren't real homosexuals to begin with.
Or they are still homosexuals but suppressing themselves and lying to say they changed.

Do you think either of those explanations applies to McCray?
Or do you think she is "bisexual" and just choosing to change depending who she has relations with?

My question to you ABikerSailor
who made a rule that all cases of homosexuality have to be explained the same way?
What if some cases are natural, some unnatural.
what if some are by birth, and some by outside causes.
What if some people can change, and some cannot.

Cancer for example, can be caused by genetic inherited genes
or caused by exposure to radioactive or other hazardous substances.

Who said that all cases have to be the same?

 

[emilynghiem]

Historically I believe that homosexuality was typically considered a social construct, in which any person had the potential to develop gay attractions if in the right situation (ex. prison inmates having gay relations due to isolation from women).

It seems like only in recent times has homosexuality been touted as a biological construct and an "identity" put on the same level as sex and race.

I'm wondering what exactly sparked all of this hubub; as there's definitely no conclusive evidence that homosexuality is "genetic" or that people are "born that way" despite activist claims.

Dear IndependantAce
I think you are talking about 2-3 different situations
1. One that you mention is by culture, something external.
There is a term for this type of practice when it is cultural, as Greeks used to practice it.
The prison culture also has homosexual sex as part of the culture and not necessarily
based on romantic attraction but for functional purposes of sex.

Of the behavior that is based on personal romantic or spiritual attraction,
there are some cases that are by birth and others caused by abuse or other unnatural situations later

2. by birth
some people report they have always felt they were transgender or homosexual
all their lives
some research is looking into the chemistry in the mother's womb that could
possible correlate with altering the perception of gender or some other brain development
that could explain people being born with predilection to the opposite gender than
they are physically

the theory I believe is this is spiritual, and whether influenced by nature or nurture,
if people are meant to go through this condition in life in order to face certain issues
and overcome different struggles it is part of karma that is being worked off
which wasn't resolved in the past and is manifesting in future relations to be worked out
what breaks the cycle of karma from repeating is choosing forgiveness and healing
so the conditions do not cause more harm or suffering; what repeats the cycle is
adding more negativity to the conflicts. so the higher point purpose and path is
to choose to undo the layers of suffering already compiling, instead of adding more on to the pile.
Until this lesson is learned, more and more adverse situation escalate, forcing a resolution
at some point to end this destructive pattern.

3. by unnatural causes such as abuse
for cases where people have been able to be healed and change their orientation or gender identity
if it wasn't natural for them, and return to their natural default state,
many of these report suffering abuse or other issues
so that when these are forgiven and healed, the attached reactions also changed.
Again, this is why I believe a spiritual process is the real focus,
regardless if people can change or not, and regardless what causes their conditions or the changes.

The best source I recommend for understanding the spiritual changes and process
is Dr. Francis MacNutt who wrote a short book on this "Can Homosexuality be Healed"
because so many people either for gay rights or against homosexuality were getting it wrong and spreading misinformation. the correct answer is yes and no. In some cases yes, in other cases no.
So people are getting it wrong if they say "all cases are natural and none can be changed"
or if they say "no cases are natural and all can be changed"

That is why MacNutt and his wife are right in saying we cannot judge.
And with their nonjudgmental approach, they have successfully helped more
people to heal than any of these people issuing condemnations that have likely
driven more people to suicide instead. Very sad.

I cited an interview with Drs. Francis and Judith MacNutt here on a link by
a Canadian poster who raves on and on against homosexual agenda:
How To Defeat Homosexual Activists 101 A Real Education

Their nonprofit ministry in spiritual healing is one of the few I recommend and trust
as being 100% on the right track, with absolutely no complaints of abuse fraud or any negative reports.

So to answer your question, these conditions have always been present;
and with our modern society, openly sharing research and personal experiences online, we have full access to information and history to discuss these things that we didn't before.

It's like all the family incest stories coming out of the closet,
now that we have the freedom of speech and media access to share openly.
and we have the ability to research these things, and share the findings as well.

In MacNutt's book on homosexuality he cites research on identical twins.
If homosexuality was purely genetic there would be 100% match in orientation.
But at most research shows 53% rate of having the same orientation.
So it's not 100%, but curiously enough it isn't random at 50/50
there is a slight predilection or tendency. So it can be argued
there is a tendency that is genetically inherited, but studies show it isn't 100% predetermined by that.
There are arguably environmental or social factors that influence orientation beyond genetics.
So that is where the argument comes that it is behavioral and a choice.

Spiritually I do not think it is anyone's choice to be born that way
or to be born into a life that will lead to that; but once we understand
the karma that causes adverse situations to manifest in life, we
can overcome that karma and restore stable relations. From my
experience with people, I've seen people go through spiritual healing
and come out transgender, or homosexual or heterosexual. They come
to peace with their natural state, whatever it is. So as long as they are
at peace and aren't acting out of suppression or abuse, I assume that
default state is what is natural for them and I trust them to be honest about it.

If people are still in a state of recovery and aren't resolved and at peace,
they are honest and transparent about that too. You can't hide if you
have forgiven or not forgiven things.

Hi IndependantAce I am searching and bumping
some threads for OffensivelyOpenMinded
who has posted this research on orientation I think settles the genetic question:
There Is No Such Thing As Gay "PRIDE"

If you know of other posts or posters who
are serious and not just mouthing off,
can you reply and invite them to comment?

If we need to start a new thread or discussion forum
just for this, I want to push all the way for research
on spiritual healing and the degrees/cases of sexual
abuse, addiction or related conditions it can cure.

Thanks, I will bump 1-2 more threads and see
who is serious about pursuing this to a consensual conclusion.

 

[Moonglow]

Historically I believe that homosexuality was typically considered a social construct, in which any person had the potential to develop gay attractions if in the right situation (ex. prison inmates having gay relations due to isolation from women).

It seems like only in recent times has homosexuality been touted as a biological construct and an "identity" put on the same level as sex and race.

I'm wondering what exactly sparked all of this hubub; as there's definitely no conclusive evidence that homosexuality is "genetic" or that people are "born that way" despite activist claims.

Dear IndependantAce
I think you are talking about 2-3 different situations
1. One that you mention is by culture, something external.
There is a term for this type of practice when it is cultural, as Greeks used to practice it.
The prison culture also has homosexual sex as part of the culture and not necessarily
based on romantic attraction but for functional purposes of sex.

Of the behavior that is based on personal romantic or spiritual attraction,
there are some cases that are by birth and others caused by abuse or other unnatural situations later

2. by birth
some people report they have always felt they were transgender or homosexual
all their lives
some research is looking into the chemistry in the mother's womb that could
possible correlate with altering the perception of gender or some other brain development
that could explain people being born with predilection to the opposite gender than
they are physically

the theory I believe is this is spiritual, and whether influenced by nature or nurture,
if people are meant to go through this condition in life in order to face certain issues
and overcome different struggles it is part of karma that is being worked off
which wasn't resolved in the past and is manifesting in future relations to be worked out
what breaks the cycle of karma from repeating is choosing forgiveness and healing
so the conditions do not cause more harm or suffering; what repeats the cycle is
adding more negativity to the conflicts. so the higher point purpose and path is
to choose to undo the layers of suffering already compiling, instead of adding more on to the pile.
Until this lesson is learned, more and more adverse situation escalate, forcing a resolution
at some point to end this destructive pattern.

3. by unnatural causes such as abuse
for cases where people have been able to be healed and change their orientation or gender identity
if it wasn't natural for them, and return to their natural default state,
many of these report suffering abuse or other issues
so that when these are forgiven and healed, the attached reactions also changed.
Again, this is why I believe a spiritual process is the real focus,
regardless if people can change or not, and regardless what causes their conditions or the changes.

The best source I recommend for understanding the spiritual changes and process
is Dr. Francis MacNutt who wrote a short book on this "Can Homosexuality be Healed"
because so many people either for gay rights or against homosexuality were getting it wrong and spreading misinformation. the correct answer is yes and no. In some cases yes, in other cases no.
So people are getting it wrong if they say "all cases are natural and none can be changed"
or if they say "no cases are natural and all can be changed"

That is why MacNutt and his wife are right in saying we cannot judge.
And with their nonjudgmental approach, they have successfully helped more
people to heal than any of these people issuing condemnations that have likely
driven more people to suicide instead. Very sad.

I cited an interview with Drs. Francis and Judith MacNutt here on a link by
a Canadian poster who raves on and on against homosexual agenda:
How To Defeat Homosexual Activists 101 A Real Education

Their nonprofit ministry in spiritual healing is one of the few I recommend and trust
as being 100% on the right track, with absolutely no complaints of abuse fraud or any negative reports.

So to answer your question, these conditions have always been present;
and with our modern society, openly sharing research and personal experiences online, we have full access to information and history to discuss these things that we didn't before.

It's like all the family incest stories coming out of the closet,
now that we have the freedom of speech and media access to share openly.
and we have the ability to research these things, and share the findings as well.

In MacNutt's book on homosexuality he cites research on identical twins.
If homosexuality was purely genetic there would be 100% match in orientation.
But at most research shows 53% rate of having the same orientation.
So it's not 100%, but curiously enough it isn't random at 50/50
there is a slight predilection or tendency. So it can be argued
there is a tendency that is genetically inherited, but studies show it isn't 100% predetermined by that.
There are arguably environmental or social factors that influence orientation beyond genetics.
So that is where the argument comes that it is behavioral and a choice.

Spiritually I do not think it is anyone's choice to be born that way
or to be born into a life that will lead to that; but once we understand
the karma that causes adverse situations to manifest in life, we
can overcome that karma and restore stable relations. From my
experience with people, I've seen people go through spiritual healing
and come out transgender, or homosexual or heterosexual. They come
to peace with their natural state, whatever it is. So as long as they are
at peace and aren't acting out of suppression or abuse, I assume that
default state is what is natural for them and I trust them to be honest about it.

If people are still in a state of recovery and aren't resolved and at peace,
they are honest and transparent about that too. You can't hide if you
have forgiven or not forgiven things.

Hi IndependantAce I am searching and bumping
some threads for OffensivelyOpenMinded
who has posted this research on orientation I think settles the genetic question:
There Is No Such Thing As Gay "PRIDE"

If you know of other posts or posters who
are serious and not just mouthing off,
can you reply and invite them to comment?

If we need to start a new thread or discussion forum
just for this, I want to push all the way for research
on spiritual healing and the degrees/cases of sexual
abuse, addiction or related conditions it can cure.

Thanks, I will bump 1-2 more threads and see
who is serious about pursuing this to a consensual conclusion.

Genetics is not really a science where everything is known.....

 

[emilynghiem]

You know, scientists and doctors have gotten much better at identifying various anomalies in the human body, because we have got better equipment that can see more of the body than ever before. I'm speaking specifically of brain scans.

Now, scientists have interviewed a pretty decent selection of people, and they found out that the brains of gay males and straight females are remarkably similar, and they also found that the brains of gay females and straight males are remarkably similar as well.

They seem to think that sexuality may be determined not by the genes that one has, but rather by the way the brain develops in the womb. The brain structure is different, and because of that, it's the reason that people are gay or straight. Also explains why one twin can be gay, and the other one is straight. Even though they have the same genetics, their brain structure may be different.

Homosexuality in the Brain | Brain Blogger

So no, being gay isn't really a choice that you can make, because your brain is hard wired to love who you love.

Yes and no ABikerSailor

How do you explain Chirlane McCray the wife of the NY Mayor who used to identify as lesbian,
even writing a book about her experienced, but changed when she fell in love with her current
husband she calls the love of her life:
De Blasio’s wife Chirlane McCray talks about lesbian past

How do you explain all these people who could change:
People Can Change - An alternative, healing response to unwanted homosexual desires.

I had this discussion with Inevitable who said if these people were now heterosexual
that's what they were born in the first place, so they weren't real homosexuals to begin with.
Or they are still homosexuals but suppressing themselves and lying to say they changed.

Do you think either of those explanations applies to McCray?
Or do you think she is "bisexual" and just choosing to change depending who she has relations with?

My question to you ABikerSailor
who made a rule that all cases of homosexuality have to be explained the same way?
What if some cases are natural, some unnatural.
what if some are by birth, and some by outside causes.
What if some people can change, and some cannot.

Cancer for example, can be caused by genetic inherited genes
or caused by exposure to radioactive or other hazardous substances.

Who said that all cases have to be the same?

Here OffensivelyOpenMinded
ABikerSailor 's post before this explains
about the findings that the brains may be
formed differently in the womb though it's still not genetic.

For people who cite the Bible, this matches the
wording of the passage about some "eunuchs"
being made by man and others by God from the "womb"

 

[Slade3200]

Historically I believe that homosexuality was typically considered a social construct, in which any person had the potential to develop gay attractions if in the right situation (ex. prison inmates having gay relations due to isolation from women).

It seems like only in recent times has homosexuality been touted as a biological construct and an "identity" put on the same level as sex and race.

I'm wondering what exactly sparked all of this hubub; as there's definitely no conclusive evidence that homosexuality is "genetic" or that people are "born that way" despite activist claims.

Dear IndependantAce
I think you are talking about 2-3 different situations
1. One that you mention is by culture, something external.
There is a term for this type of practice when it is cultural, as Greeks used to practice it.
The prison culture also has homosexual sex as part of the culture and not necessarily
based on romantic attraction but for functional purposes of sex.

Of the behavior that is based on personal romantic or spiritual attraction,
there are some cases that are by birth and others caused by abuse or other unnatural situations later

2. by birth
some people report they have always felt they were transgender or homosexual
all their lives
some research is looking into the chemistry in the mother's womb that could
possible correlate with altering the perception of gender or some other brain development
that could explain people being born with predilection to the opposite gender than
they are physically

the theory I believe is this is spiritual, and whether influenced by nature or nurture,
if people are meant to go through this condition in life in order to face certain issues
and overcome different struggles it is part of karma that is being worked off
which wasn't resolved in the past and is manifesting in future relations to be worked out
what breaks the cycle of karma from repeating is choosing forgiveness and healing
so the conditions do not cause more harm or suffering; what repeats the cycle is
adding more negativity to the conflicts. so the higher point purpose and path is
to choose to undo the layers of suffering already compiling, instead of adding more on to the pile.
Until this lesson is learned, more and more adverse situation escalate, forcing a resolution
at some point to end this destructive pattern.

3. by unnatural causes such as abuse
for cases where people have been able to be healed and change their orientation or gender identity
if it wasn't natural for them, and return to their natural default state,
many of these report suffering abuse or other issues
so that when these are forgiven and healed, the attached reactions also changed.
Again, this is why I believe a spiritual process is the real focus,
regardless if people can change or not, and regardless what causes their conditions or the changes.

The best source I recommend for understanding the spiritual changes and process
is Dr. Francis MacNutt who wrote a short book on this "Can Homosexuality be Healed"
because so many people either for gay rights or against homosexuality were getting it wrong and spreading misinformation. the correct answer is yes and no. In some cases yes, in other cases no.
So people are getting it wrong if they say "all cases are natural and none can be changed"
or if they say "no cases are natural and all can be changed"

That is why MacNutt and his wife are right in saying we cannot judge.
And with their nonjudgmental approach, they have successfully helped more
people to heal than any of these people issuing condemnations that have likely
driven more people to suicide instead. Very sad.

I cited an interview with Drs. Francis and Judith MacNutt here on a link by
a Canadian poster who raves on and on against homosexual agenda:
How To Defeat Homosexual Activists 101 A Real Education

Their nonprofit ministry in spiritual healing is one of the few I recommend and trust
as being 100% on the right track, with absolutely no complaints of abuse fraud or any negative reports.

So to answer your question, these conditions have always been present;
and with our modern society, openly sharing research and personal experiences online, we have full access to information and history to discuss these things that we didn't before.

It's like all the family incest stories coming out of the closet,
now that we have the freedom of speech and media access to share openly.
and we have the ability to research these things, and share the findings as well.

In MacNutt's book on homosexuality he cites research on identical twins.
If homosexuality was purely genetic there would be 100% match in orientation.
But at most research shows 53% rate of having the same orientation.
So it's not 100%, but curiously enough it isn't random at 50/50
there is a slight predilection or tendency. So it can be argued
there is a tendency that is genetically inherited, but studies show it isn't 100% predetermined by that.
There are arguably environmental or social factors that influence orientation beyond genetics.
So that is where the argument comes that it is behavioral and a choice.

Spiritually I do not think it is anyone's choice to be born that way
or to be born into a life that will lead to that; but once we understand
the karma that causes adverse situations to manifest in life, we
can overcome that karma and restore stable relations. From my
experience with people, I've seen people go through spiritual healing
and come out transgender, or homosexual or heterosexual. They come
to peace with their natural state, whatever it is. So as long as they are
at peace and aren't acting out of suppression or abuse, I assume that
default state is what is natural for them and I trust them to be honest about it.

If people are still in a state of recovery and aren't resolved and at peace,
they are honest and transparent about that too. You can't hide if you
have forgiven or not forgiven things.

Hi IndependantAce I am searching and bumping
some threads for OffensivelyOpenMinded
who has posted this research on orientation I think settles the genetic question:
There Is No Such Thing As Gay "PRIDE"

If you know of other posts or posters who
are serious and not just mouthing off,
can you reply and invite them to comment?

If we need to start a new thread or discussion forum
just for this, I want to push all the way for research
on spiritual healing and the degrees/cases of sexual
abuse, addiction or related conditions it can cure.

Thanks, I will bump 1-2 more threads and see
who is serious about pursuing this to a consensual conclusion.

So what exactly is your purpose/goal?

 

[emilynghiem]

Historically I believe that homosexuality was typically considered a social construct, in which any person had the potential to develop gay attractions if in the right situation (ex. prison inmates having gay relations due to isolation from women).

It seems like only in recent times has homosexuality been touted as a biological construct and an "identity" put on the same level as sex and race.

I'm wondering what exactly sparked all of this hubub; as there's definitely no conclusive evidence that homosexuality is "genetic" or that people are "born that way" despite activist claims.

Dear IndependantAce
I think you are talking about 2-3 different situations
1. One that you mention is by culture, something external.
There is a term for this type of practice when it is cultural, as Greeks used to practice it.
The prison culture also has homosexual sex as part of the culture and not necessarily
based on romantic attraction but for functional purposes of sex.

Of the behavior that is based on personal romantic or spiritual attraction,
there are some cases that are by birth and others caused by abuse or other unnatural situations later

2. by birth
some people report they have always felt they were transgender or homosexual
all their lives
some research is looking into the chemistry in the mother's womb that could
possible correlate with altering the perception of gender or some other brain development
that could explain people being born with predilection to the opposite gender than
they are physically

the theory I believe is this is spiritual, and whether influenced by nature or nurture,
if people are meant to go through this condition in life in order to face certain issues
and overcome different struggles it is part of karma that is being worked off
which wasn't resolved in the past and is manifesting in future relations to be worked out
what breaks the cycle of karma from repeating is choosing forgiveness and healing
so the conditions do not cause more harm or suffering; what repeats the cycle is
adding more negativity to the conflicts. so the higher point purpose and path is
to choose to undo the layers of suffering already compiling, instead of adding more on to the pile.
Until this lesson is learned, more and more adverse situation escalate, forcing a resolution
at some point to end this destructive pattern.

3. by unnatural causes such as abuse
for cases where people have been able to be healed and change their orientation or gender identity
if it wasn't natural for them, and return to their natural default state,
many of these report suffering abuse or other issues
so that when these are forgiven and healed, the attached reactions also changed.
Again, this is why I believe a spiritual process is the real focus,
regardless if people can change or not, and regardless what causes their conditions or the changes.

The best source I recommend for understanding the spiritual changes and process
is Dr. Francis MacNutt who wrote a short book on this "Can Homosexuality be Healed"
because so many people either for gay rights or against homosexuality were getting it wrong and spreading misinformation. the correct answer is yes and no. In some cases yes, in other cases no.
So people are getting it wrong if they say "all cases are natural and none can be changed"
or if they say "no cases are natural and all can be changed"

That is why MacNutt and his wife are right in saying we cannot judge.
And with their nonjudgmental approach, they have successfully helped more
people to heal than any of these people issuing condemnations that have likely
driven more people to suicide instead. Very sad.

I cited an interview with Drs. Francis and Judith MacNutt here on a link by
a Canadian poster who raves on and on against homosexual agenda:
How To Defeat Homosexual Activists 101 A Real Education

Their nonprofit ministry in spiritual healing is one of the few I recommend and trust
as being 100% on the right track, with absolutely no complaints of abuse fraud or any negative reports.

So to answer your question, these conditions have always been present;
and with our modern society, openly sharing research and personal experiences online, we have full access to information and history to discuss these things that we didn't before.

It's like all the family incest stories coming out of the closet,
now that we have the freedom of speech and media access to share openly.
and we have the ability to research these things, and share the findings as well.

In MacNutt's book on homosexuality he cites research on identical twins.
If homosexuality was purely genetic there would be 100% match in orientation.
But at most research shows 53% rate of having the same orientation.
So it's not 100%, but curiously enough it isn't random at 50/50
there is a slight predilection or tendency. So it can be argued
there is a tendency that is genetically inherited, but studies show it isn't 100% predetermined by that.
There are arguably environmental or social factors that influence orientation beyond genetics.
So that is where the argument comes that it is behavioral and a choice.

Spiritually I do not think it is anyone's choice to be born that way
or to be born into a life that will lead to that; but once we understand
the karma that causes adverse situations to manifest in life, we
can overcome that karma and restore stable relations. From my
experience with people, I've seen people go through spiritual healing
and come out transgender, or homosexual or heterosexual. They come
to peace with their natural state, whatever it is. So as long as they are
at peace and aren't acting out of suppression or abuse, I assume that
default state is what is natural for them and I trust them to be honest about it.

If people are still in a state of recovery and aren't resolved and at peace,
they are honest and transparent about that too. You can't hide if you
have forgiven or not forgiven things.

Hi IndependantAce I am searching and bumping
some threads for OffensivelyOpenMinded
who has posted this research on orientation I think settles the genetic question:
There Is No Such Thing As Gay "PRIDE"

If you know of other posts or posters who
are serious and not just mouthing off,
can you reply and invite them to comment?

If we need to start a new thread or discussion forum
just for this, I want to push all the way for research
on spiritual healing and the degrees/cases of sexual
abuse, addiction or related conditions it can cure.

Thanks, I will bump 1-2 more threads and see
who is serious about pursuing this to a consensual conclusion.

So what exactly is your purpose/goal?

Dear Slade3200
1. I believe we can reach a consensus on policies that involve
either LGBT, marriage or bathroom policies, and related issues of
spiritual, religious or political beliefs being pushed through govt.
Instead of wasting resources fighting over problems, we can
invest in solutions we actually agree include and represent everyone equally without conflict or coercion.

2. by agreeing to pursue medical research, we can prove that spiritual healing can effectively
be applied to heal people not only of unwanted homosexual orientation,
but also other conditions, ending patterns of addiction and abuse,
and curing people of mental physical and criminal illness. This can
revolutionize the mental health and prison system, and free up
resources that can then allow for universal care without raising taxes.

3. Spiritual healing will also solve other problems costing taxpayer money, including the potential
for diagnosing and curing criminal illness to prevent gun violence.
by focusing on solutions all sides AGREE are more cost-effective, enforceable and sustainable,
this can resolve political and religious conflicts and restore more functional less division
political relationships, and lead to collaboration between parties,
state govt and federal govt, and nations instead of bullying to dominate.

 

[Slade3200]

Historically I believe that homosexuality was typically considered a social construct, in which any person had the potential to develop gay attractions if in the right situation (ex. prison inmates having gay relations due to isolation from women).

It seems like only in recent times has homosexuality been touted as a biological construct and an "identity" put on the same level as sex and race.

I'm wondering what exactly sparked all of this hubub; as there's definitely no conclusive evidence that homosexuality is "genetic" or that people are "born that way" despite activist claims.

Dear IndependantAce
I think you are talking about 2-3 different situations
1. One that you mention is by culture, something external.
There is a term for this type of practice when it is cultural, as Greeks used to practice it.
The prison culture also has homosexual sex as part of the culture and not necessarily
based on romantic attraction but for functional purposes of sex.

Of the behavior that is based on personal romantic or spiritual attraction,
there are some cases that are by birth and others caused by abuse or other unnatural situations later

2. by birth
some people report they have always felt they were transgender or homosexual
all their lives
some research is looking into the chemistry in the mother's womb that could
possible correlate with altering the perception of gender or some other brain development
that could explain people being born with predilection to the opposite gender than
they are physically

the theory I believe is this is spiritual, and whether influenced by nature or nurture,
if people are meant to go through this condition in life in order to face certain issues
and overcome different struggles it is part of karma that is being worked off
which wasn't resolved in the past and is manifesting in future relations to be worked out
what breaks the cycle of karma from repeating is choosing forgiveness and healing
so the conditions do not cause more harm or suffering; what repeats the cycle is
adding more negativity to the conflicts. so the higher point purpose and path is
to choose to undo the layers of suffering already compiling, instead of adding more on to the pile.
Until this lesson is learned, more and more adverse situation escalate, forcing a resolution
at some point to end this destructive pattern.

3. by unnatural causes such as abuse
for cases where people have been able to be healed and change their orientation or gender identity
if it wasn't natural for them, and return to their natural default state,
many of these report suffering abuse or other issues
so that when these are forgiven and healed, the attached reactions also changed.
Again, this is why I believe a spiritual process is the real focus,
regardless if people can change or not, and regardless what causes their conditions or the changes.

The best source I recommend for understanding the spiritual changes and process
is Dr. Francis MacNutt who wrote a short book on this "Can Homosexuality be Healed"
because so many people either for gay rights or against homosexuality were getting it wrong and spreading misinformation. the correct answer is yes and no. In some cases yes, in other cases no.
So people are getting it wrong if they say "all cases are natural and none can be changed"
or if they say "no cases are natural and all can be changed"

That is why MacNutt and his wife are right in saying we cannot judge.
And with their nonjudgmental approach, they have successfully helped more
people to heal than any of these people issuing condemnations that have likely
driven more people to suicide instead. Very sad.

I cited an interview with Drs. Francis and Judith MacNutt here on a link by
a Canadian poster who raves on and on against homosexual agenda:
How To Defeat Homosexual Activists 101 A Real Education

Their nonprofit ministry in spiritual healing is one of the few I recommend and trust
as being 100% on the right track, with absolutely no complaints of abuse fraud or any negative reports.

So to answer your question, these conditions have always been present;
and with our modern society, openly sharing research and personal experiences online, we have full access to information and history to discuss these things that we didn't before.

It's like all the family incest stories coming out of the closet,
now that we have the freedom of speech and media access to share openly.
and we have the ability to research these things, and share the findings as well.

In MacNutt's book on homosexuality he cites research on identical twins.
If homosexuality was purely genetic there would be 100% match in orientation.
But at most research shows 53% rate of having the same orientation.
So it's not 100%, but curiously enough it isn't random at 50/50
there is a slight predilection or tendency. So it can be argued
there is a tendency that is genetically inherited, but studies show it isn't 100% predetermined by that.
There are arguably environmental or social factors that influence orientation beyond genetics.
So that is where the argument comes that it is behavioral and a choice.

Spiritually I do not think it is anyone's choice to be born that way
or to be born into a life that will lead to that; but once we understand
the karma that causes adverse situations to manifest in life, we
can overcome that karma and restore stable relations. From my
experience with people, I've seen people go through spiritual healing
and come out transgender, or homosexual or heterosexual. They come
to peace with their natural state, whatever it is. So as long as they are
at peace and aren't acting out of suppression or abuse, I assume that
default state is what is natural for them and I trust them to be honest about it.

If people are still in a state of recovery and aren't resolved and at peace,
they are honest and transparent about that too. You can't hide if you
have forgiven or not forgiven things.

Hi IndependantAce I am searching and bumping
some threads for OffensivelyOpenMinded
who has posted this research on orientation I think settles the genetic question:
There Is No Such Thing As Gay "PRIDE"

If you know of other posts or posters who
are serious and not just mouthing off,
can you reply and invite them to comment?

If we need to start a new thread or discussion forum
just for this, I want to push all the way for research
on spiritual healing and the degrees/cases of sexual
abuse, addiction or related conditions it can cure.

Thanks, I will bump 1-2 more threads and see
who is serious about pursuing this to a consensual conclusion.

So what exactly is your purpose/goal?

Dear Slade3200
1. I believe we can reach a consensus on policies that involve
either LGBT, marriage or bathroom policies, and related issues of
spiritual, religious or political beliefs being pushed through govt.
Instead of wasting resources fighting over problems, we can
invest in solutions we actually agree include and represent everyone equally without conflict or coercion.

2. by agreeing to pursue medical research, we can prove that spiritual healing can effectively
be applied to heal people not only of unwanted homosexual orientation,
but also other conditions, ending patterns of addiction and abuse,
and curing people of mental physical and criminal illness. This can
revolutionize the mental health and prison system, and free up
resources that can then allow for universal care without raising taxes.

3. Spiritual healing will also solve other problems costing taxpayer money, including the potential
for diagnosing and curing criminal illness to prevent gun violence.
by focusing on solutions all sides AGREE are more cost-effective, enforceable and sustainable,
this can resolve political and religious conflicts and restore more functional less division
political relationships, and lead to collaboration between parties,
state govt and federal govt, and nations instead of bullying to dominate.

Interesting concept... I like the premise, with exception to the notion of "curing homosexuality" which is only going to cause you more problems. Aside from that, what kind of spiritual healing would you institute? I'm assuming you'd need to avoid using any organized religions ideology... Perhaps something similar to what support groups like AA use?

 

[emilynghiem]

Historically I believe that homosexuality was typically considered a social construct, in which any person had the potential to develop gay attractions if in the right situation (ex. prison inmates having gay relations due to isolation from women).

It seems like only in recent times has homosexuality been touted as a biological construct and an "identity" put on the same level as sex and race.

I'm wondering what exactly sparked all of this hubub; as there's definitely no conclusive evidence that homosexuality is "genetic" or that people are "born that way" despite activist claims.

Dear IndependantAce
I think you are talking about 2-3 different situations
1. One that you mention is by culture, something external.
There is a term for this type of practice when it is cultural, as Greeks used to practice it.
The prison culture also has homosexual sex as part of the culture and not necessarily
based on romantic attraction but for functional purposes of sex.

Of the behavior that is based on personal romantic or spiritual attraction,
there are some cases that are by birth and others caused by abuse or other unnatural situations later

2. by birth
some people report they have always felt they were transgender or homosexual
all their lives
some research is looking into the chemistry in the mother's womb that could
possible correlate with altering the perception of gender or some other brain development
that could explain people being born with predilection to the opposite gender than
they are physically

the theory I believe is this is spiritual, and whether influenced by nature or nurture,
if people are meant to go through this condition in life in order to face certain issues
and overcome different struggles it is part of karma that is being worked off
which wasn't resolved in the past and is manifesting in future relations to be worked out
what breaks the cycle of karma from repeating is choosing forgiveness and healing
so the conditions do not cause more harm or suffering; what repeats the cycle is
adding more negativity to the conflicts. so the higher point purpose and path is
to choose to undo the layers of suffering already compiling, instead of adding more on to the pile.
Until this lesson is learned, more and more adverse situation escalate, forcing a resolution
at some point to end this destructive pattern.

3. by unnatural causes such as abuse
for cases where people have been able to be healed and change their orientation or gender identity
if it wasn't natural for them, and return to their natural default state,
many of these report suffering abuse or other issues
so that when these are forgiven and healed, the attached reactions also changed.
Again, this is why I believe a spiritual process is the real focus,
regardless if people can change or not, and regardless what causes their conditions or the changes.

The best source I recommend for understanding the spiritual changes and process
is Dr. Francis MacNutt who wrote a short book on this "Can Homosexuality be Healed"
because so many people either for gay rights or against homosexuality were getting it wrong and spreading misinformation. the correct answer is yes and no. In some cases yes, in other cases no.
So people are getting it wrong if they say "all cases are natural and none can be changed"
or if they say "no cases are natural and all can be changed"

That is why MacNutt and his wife are right in saying we cannot judge.
And with their nonjudgmental approach, they have successfully helped more
people to heal than any of these people issuing condemnations that have likely
driven more people to suicide instead. Very sad.

I cited an interview with Drs. Francis and Judith MacNutt here on a link by
a Canadian poster who raves on and on against homosexual agenda:
How To Defeat Homosexual Activists 101 A Real Education

Their nonprofit ministry in spiritual healing is one of the few I recommend and trust
as being 100% on the right track, with absolutely no complaints of abuse fraud or any negative reports.

So to answer your question, these conditions have always been present;
and with our modern society, openly sharing research and personal experiences online, we have full access to information and history to discuss these things that we didn't before.

It's like all the family incest stories coming out of the closet,
now that we have the freedom of speech and media access to share openly.
and we have the ability to research these things, and share the findings as well.

In MacNutt's book on homosexuality he cites research on identical twins.
If homosexuality was purely genetic there would be 100% match in orientation.
But at most research shows 53% rate of having the same orientation.
So it's not 100%, but curiously enough it isn't random at 50/50
there is a slight predilection or tendency. So it can be argued
there is a tendency that is genetically inherited, but studies show it isn't 100% predetermined by that.
There are arguably environmental or social factors that influence orientation beyond genetics.
So that is where the argument comes that it is behavioral and a choice.

Spiritually I do not think it is anyone's choice to be born that way
or to be born into a life that will lead to that; but once we understand
the karma that causes adverse situations to manifest in life, we
can overcome that karma and restore stable relations. From my
experience with people, I've seen people go through spiritual healing
and come out transgender, or homosexual or heterosexual. They come
to peace with their natural state, whatever it is. So as long as they are
at peace and aren't acting out of suppression or abuse, I assume that
default state is what is natural for them and I trust them to be honest about it.

If people are still in a state of recovery and aren't resolved and at peace,
they are honest and transparent about that too. You can't hide if you
have forgiven or not forgiven things.

Hi IndependantAce I am searching and bumping
some threads for OffensivelyOpenMinded
who has posted this research on orientation I think settles the genetic question:
There Is No Such Thing As Gay "PRIDE"

If you know of other posts or posters who
are serious and not just mouthing off,
can you reply and invite them to comment?

If we need to start a new thread or discussion forum
just for this, I want to push all the way for research
on spiritual healing and the degrees/cases of sexual
abuse, addiction or related conditions it can cure.

Thanks, I will bump 1-2 more threads and see
who is serious about pursuing this to a consensual conclusion.

So what exactly is your purpose/goal?

Dear Slade3200
1. I believe we can reach a consensus on policies that involve
either LGBT, marriage or bathroom policies, and related issues of
spiritual, religious or political beliefs being pushed through govt.
Instead of wasting resources fighting over problems, we can
invest in solutions we actually agree include and represent everyone equally without conflict or coercion.

2. by agreeing to pursue medical research, we can prove that spiritual healing can effectively
be applied to heal people not only of unwanted homosexual orientation,
but also other conditions, ending patterns of addiction and abuse,
and curing people of mental physical and criminal illness. This can
revolutionize the mental health and prison system, and free up
resources that can then allow for universal care without raising taxes.

3. Spiritual healing will also solve other problems costing taxpayer money, including the potential
for diagnosing and curing criminal illness to prevent gun violence.
by focusing on solutions all sides AGREE are more cost-effective, enforceable and sustainable,
this can resolve political and religious conflicts and restore more functional less division
political relationships, and lead to collaboration between parties,
state govt and federal govt, and nations instead of bullying to dominate.

Interesting concept... I like the premise, with exception to the notion of "curing homosexuality" which is only going to cause you more problems. Aside from that, what kind of spiritual healing would you institute? I'm assuming you'd need to avoid using any organized religions ideology... Perhaps something similar to what support groups like AA use?

Dear Slade3200 thanks for your questions and interest in talking about solutions and not just "problems"
1. The methods that work are similar to 12 step in that the person tracks their steps and works out past issues.
The prayer for forgiving some of the deeper "stuck points" involves Christian healing prayer for deliverance to free ppl of oppression on whatever level they are experiencing problems
2. So when you bring up "problems" of course. The whole point is to resolve as much as possible. Avoiding problems isn't going to solve them. And in this process, it is made clear which cases involve unnatural conditions that ppl can and want to change, which can't or don't have any need or desire to change, and even cases where someone wanted to change but could not and accepted this. So the spiritual healing is about acceptance.

It is like the Serenity prayer in recovery, about knowing the difference between what can change and what will not, and being at peace uncoditionally.

The most amazing part to me, is how the relationships and whole families and communities can be uplifted by the spiritual healing process. It is revolutionary enough if incurable cases of cancer, schizophrenia and other ills can turn out to be treatable or managed if not completely cured in some cases. But to see the effect go beyond the patient and change the perceptions of ppl around them has
additional impact that can in turn change entire institutions in how we operate. So that to me is inspiring and is worth the "problems" brought up in the process of getting there.

I even believe, overall, the Christian communities and world will be grateful to the LGBT movement for pushing for scientific proof of what is really going on. Instead of hating and blaming, it will turn to thanks and gratitude for the sacrifices made until an understanding is reached. Like the Bible says, whoever is loved will be hated, whoever is hated will be loved.

We will all benefit and be better off for these struggles that are not in vain. It will get better, and we'll all be glad for it!

 

[Slade3200]

Dear IndependantAce
I think you are talking about 2-3 different situations
1. One that you mention is by culture, something external.
There is a term for this type of practice when it is cultural, as Greeks used to practice it.
The prison culture also has homosexual sex as part of the culture and not necessarily
based on romantic attraction but for functional purposes of sex.

Of the behavior that is based on personal romantic or spiritual attraction,
there are some cases that are by birth and others caused by abuse or other unnatural situations later

2. by birth
some people report they have always felt they were transgender or homosexual
all their lives
some research is looking into the chemistry in the mother's womb that could
possible correlate with altering the perception of gender or some other brain development
that could explain people being born with predilection to the opposite gender than
they are physically

the theory I believe is this is spiritual, and whether influenced by nature or nurture,
if people are meant to go through this condition in life in order to face certain issues
and overcome different struggles it is part of karma that is being worked off
which wasn't resolved in the past and is manifesting in future relations to be worked out
what breaks the cycle of karma from repeating is choosing forgiveness and healing
so the conditions do not cause more harm or suffering; what repeats the cycle is
adding more negativity to the conflicts. so the higher point purpose and path is
to choose to undo the layers of suffering already compiling, instead of adding more on to the pile.
Until this lesson is learned, more and more adverse situation escalate, forcing a resolution
at some point to end this destructive pattern.

3. by unnatural causes such as abuse
for cases where people have been able to be healed and change their orientation or gender identity
if it wasn't natural for them, and return to their natural default state,
many of these report suffering abuse or other issues
so that when these are forgiven and healed, the attached reactions also changed.
Again, this is why I believe a spiritual process is the real focus,
regardless if people can change or not, and regardless what causes their conditions or the changes.

The best source I recommend for understanding the spiritual changes and process
is Dr. Francis MacNutt who wrote a short book on this "Can Homosexuality be Healed"
because so many people either for gay rights or against homosexuality were getting it wrong and spreading misinformation. the correct answer is yes and no. In some cases yes, in other cases no.
So people are getting it wrong if they say "all cases are natural and none can be changed"
or if they say "no cases are natural and all can be changed"

That is why MacNutt and his wife are right in saying we cannot judge.
And with their nonjudgmental approach, they have successfully helped more
people to heal than any of these people issuing condemnations that have likely
driven more people to suicide instead. Very sad.

I cited an interview with Drs. Francis and Judith MacNutt here on a link by
a Canadian poster who raves on and on against homosexual agenda:
How To Defeat Homosexual Activists 101 A Real Education

Their nonprofit ministry in spiritual healing is one of the few I recommend and trust
as being 100% on the right track, with absolutely no complaints of abuse fraud or any negative reports.

So to answer your question, these conditions have always been present;
and with our modern society, openly sharing research and personal experiences online, we have full access to information and history to discuss these things that we didn't before.

It's like all the family incest stories coming out of the closet,
now that we have the freedom of speech and media access to share openly.
and we have the ability to research these things, and share the findings as well.

In MacNutt's book on homosexuality he cites research on identical twins.
If homosexuality was purely genetic there would be 100% match in orientation.
But at most research shows 53% rate of having the same orientation.
So it's not 100%, but curiously enough it isn't random at 50/50
there is a slight predilection or tendency. So it can be argued
there is a tendency that is genetically inherited, but studies show it isn't 100% predetermined by that.
There are arguably environmental or social factors that influence orientation beyond genetics.
So that is where the argument comes that it is behavioral and a choice.

Spiritually I do not think it is anyone's choice to be born that way
or to be born into a life that will lead to that; but once we understand
the karma that causes adverse situations to manifest in life, we
can overcome that karma and restore stable relations. From my
experience with people, I've seen people go through spiritual healing
and come out transgender, or homosexual or heterosexual. They come
to peace with their natural state, whatever it is. So as long as they are
at peace and aren't acting out of suppression or abuse, I assume that
default state is what is natural for them and I trust them to be honest about it.

If people are still in a state of recovery and aren't resolved and at peace,
they are honest and transparent about that too. You can't hide if you
have forgiven or not forgiven things.

Hi IndependantAce I am searching and bumping
some threads for OffensivelyOpenMinded
who has posted this research on orientation I think settles the genetic question:
There Is No Such Thing As Gay "PRIDE"

If you know of other posts or posters who
are serious and not just mouthing off,
can you reply and invite them to comment?

If we need to start a new thread or discussion forum
just for this, I want to push all the way for research
on spiritual healing and the degrees/cases of sexual
abuse, addiction or related conditions it can cure.

Thanks, I will bump 1-2 more threads and see
who is serious about pursuing this to a consensual conclusion.

So what exactly is your purpose/goal?

Dear Slade3200
1. I believe we can reach a consensus on policies that involve
either LGBT, marriage or bathroom policies, and related issues of
spiritual, religious or political beliefs being pushed through govt.
Instead of wasting resources fighting over problems, we can
invest in solutions we actually agree include and represent everyone equally without conflict or coercion.

2. by agreeing to pursue medical research, we can prove that spiritual healing can effectively
be applied to heal people not only of unwanted homosexual orientation,
but also other conditions, ending patterns of addiction and abuse,
and curing people of mental physical and criminal illness. This can
revolutionize the mental health and prison system, and free up
resources that can then allow for universal care without raising taxes.

3. Spiritual healing will also solve other problems costing taxpayer money, including the potential
for diagnosing and curing criminal illness to prevent gun violence.
by focusing on solutions all sides AGREE are more cost-effective, enforceable and sustainable,
this can resolve political and religious conflicts and restore more functional less division
political relationships, and lead to collaboration between parties,
state govt and federal govt, and nations instead of bullying to dominate.

Interesting concept... I like the premise, with exception to the notion of "curing homosexuality" which is only going to cause you more problems. Aside from that, what kind of spiritual healing would you institute? I'm assuming you'd need to avoid using any organized religions ideology... Perhaps something similar to what support groups like AA use?

Dear Slade3200 thanks for your questions and interest in talking about solutions and not just "problems"
1. The methods that work are similar to 12 step in that the person tracks their steps and works out past issues.
The prayer for forgiving some of the deeper "stuck points" involves Christian healing prayer for deliverance to free ppl of oppression on whatever level they are experiencing problems
2. So when you bring up "problems" of course. The whole point is to resolve as much as possible. Avoiding problems isn't going to solve them. And in this process, it is made clear which cases involve unnatural conditions that ppl can and want to change, which can't or don't have any need or desire to change, and even cases where someone wanted to change but could not and accepted this. So the spiritual healing is about acceptance.

It is like the Serenity prayer in recovery, about knowing the difference between what can change and what will not, and being at peace uncoditionally.

The most amazing part to me, is how the relationships and whole families and communities can be uplifted by the spiritual healing process. It is revolutionary enough if incurable cases of cancer, schizophrenia and other ills can turn out to be treatable or managed if not completely cured in some cases. But to see the effect go beyond the patient and change the perceptions of ppl around them has
additional impact that can in turn change entire institutions in how we operate. So that to me is inspiring and is worth the "problems" brought up in the process of getting there.

I even believe, overall, the Christian communities and world will be grateful to the LGBT movement for pushing for scientific proof of what is really going on. Instead of hating and blaming, it will turn to thanks and gratitude for the sacrifices made until an understanding is reached. Like the Bible says, whoever is loved will be hated, whoever is hated will be loved.

We will all benefit and be better off for these struggles that are not in vain. It will get better, and we'll all be glad for it!

Kudos to you and your efforts, I think this a great path and attitude for people to take. My suggestion as a "non-believer" when it comes to organized religions would be... If you are wanting to expand this program beyond Christian communities and get it involved in our government and medical/rehabilitation facilities you should eliminate the word spiritual. While I consider myself a spiritual person and respect much about that lifestyle, using the "spiritual" as a focus will take away from the credibilty and first impressions of the program when speaking to the masses. You can achieve the same goals by presenting a program as "introspective rehabilitation" with an emphasis on recognition, understanding, community building, reconciliation and acceptance as key elements... Or something to that effect.

Everybody's "God" is different and it doesn't need to be affiliated with a religion. It can be those things in ourselves and in our lives that we don't understand and can not control. Like you mentioned with the serenity prayer.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Can't it be both ?

Sure. Prove it.