Is a state funded education a right?

[uscitizen]

How would the state not paying for your education violate any of your constitutional rights?

 

[Samson]

How would the state not paying for your education violate any of your constitutional rights?

It wouldn't.

There is no mention at all about education in the US constitution.

 

[Sherry]

The founders left it up to the states to determine this issue. Since all state constitutions guarantee some form of free public education, they must be consistent with federally guaranteed constitutional rights, such as the Fourteenth Amendment's right to equal protection under the law. This was most notably applied in regards to school desegregation.

 

[Luissa]

How would the state not paying for your education violate any of your constitutional rights?

It wouldn't.

There is no mention at all about education in the US constitution.

but they did mention public schools in Land Acts. So obviously they wanted some sort of educational system.

 

[Samson]

How would the state not paying for your education violate any of your constitutional rights?

It wouldn't.

There is no mention at all about education in the US constitution.

but they did mention public schools in Land Acts. So obviously they wanted some sort of educational system.

I'm not familiar with your sitation, but I'm certain they did want some sort of educational system. My guess is it would have been something very localized, and "public" (in the same way that British Schools were; paid for by students' parents) only through grammar school. All higher education was private.

 

[Luissa]

It wouldn't.

There is no mention at all about education in the US constitution.

but they did mention public schools in Land Acts. So obviously they wanted some sort of educational system.

I'm not familiar with your sitation, but I'm certain they did want some sort of educational system. My guess is it would have been something very localized, and "public" (in the same way that British Schools were; paid for by students' parents) only through grammar school. All higher education was private.

I shouldn't have said public, but I can't remember the name of the act.( I will google)
It is the one where they came up with the plan to how towns would be laid out in a grid pattern, and there would be a plot designated for a school in every town. I will find it now. Lol

 

[Luissa]

I lied, it was a Land Ordinance! :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Ordinance_of_1785D

 

[Samson]

but they did mention public schools in Land Acts. So obviously they wanted some sort of educational system.

I'm not familiar with your sitation, but I'm certain they did want some sort of educational system. My guess is it would have been something very localized, and "public" (in the same way that British Schools were; paid for by students' parents) only through grammar school. All higher education was private.

I shouldn't have said public, but I can't remember the name of the act.( I will google)
It is the one where they came up with the plan to how towns would be laid out in a grid pattern, and there would be a plot designated for a school in every town. I will find it now. Lol

Well, it'll be interesting to see.

I do know that most states did not have compusory education until 1918, and then it only went up to 8th grade.

 

[uscitizen]

The founders left it up to the states to determine this issue. Since all state constitutions guarantee some form of free public education, they must be consistent with federally guaranteed constitutional rights, such as the Fourteenth Amendment's right to equal protection under the law. This was most notably applied in regards to school desegregation.

Yes if the govt pays for one student they should pay for them all.

However my issue is it a right for them to pay for that first ones education?

 

[uscitizen]

Early schools were funded primarially by the parents of the students, not by everyone in the community.

 

[Samson]

I lied, it was a Land Ordinance! :Land Ordinance of 1785 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Still, very interesting:

The ordinance was also significant for establishing a mechanism for funding public education. Section 16 in each township was reserved for the maintenance of public schools. Many schools today are still located in section sixteen of their respective townships, although a great many of the school sections were sold to raise money for public education.

Clearly SOMEONE (Jefferson?) wished there were public shools west of the Appalachians. They also wanted township-plattes to include land for veterans, but I guess this was often ignored?

At any rate, you are correct: somebody had it inthe back of his mind, but education never has made it into the Consitution.

 

[Samson]

Early schools were funded primarially by the parents of the students, not by everyone in the community.

Correct.

I'm pretty sure the Founding Fathers would have been horrified by how we have enslaved everyone through income tax, property tax, and sales tax, to pay for the stupidity of the few.

 

[Luissa]

I lied, it was a Land Ordinance! :Land Ordinance of 1785 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Still, very interesting:

The ordinance was also significant for establishing a mechanism for funding public education. Section 16 in each township was reserved for the maintenance of public schools. Many schools today are still located in section sixteen of their respective townships, although a great many of the school sections were sold to raise money for public education.

Clearly SOMEONE (Jefferson?) wished there were public shools west of the Appalachians. They also wanted township-plattes to include land for veterans, but I guess this was often ignored?

At any rate, you are correct: somebody had it inthe back of his mind, but education never has made it into the Consitution.

I think that is why they passed the Ordinance, for one it didn't the previous one I think became void when they wrote the constitution. These people knew how only the elite ended up getting an education in Europe, they were trying to be modern and help the little guy IMO.

 

[uscitizen]

My point is that it is not smart to educate every one. Or at least attempt to.
My point is that it is not a constitutional right.

So what would happen if Constitutionalist Libertarians got in charge?

 

[Samson]

I lied, it was a Land Ordinance! :Land Ordinance of 1785 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Still, very interesting:

The ordinance was also significant for establishing a mechanism for funding public education. Section 16 in each township was reserved for the maintenance of public schools. Many schools today are still located in section sixteen of their respective townships, although a great many of the school sections were sold to raise money for public education.

Clearly SOMEONE (Jefferson?) wished there were public shools west of the Appalachians. They also wanted township-plattes to include land for veterans, but I guess this was often ignored?

At any rate, you are correct: somebody had it inthe back of his mind, but education never has made it into the Consitution.

I think that is why they passed the Ordinance, for one it didn't the previous one I think became void when they wrote the constitution. These people knew how only the elite ended up getting an education in Europe, they were trying to be modern and help the little guy IMO.

Well, I think SOME were trying to help the "little guy" (white, protestant, male). These were the Jeffersonians. The Hamiltonians rejected the notion that classes could ever converge, or even should attempt it.

My guess is someone was sick and tired of the weird way counties and towns EAST of the Appalachians were laid out, and said, "Look, for Christssakes, can we PLAN towns on a grid pattern of streets???" then plot #16 became the "school plot," simply because that's the way it was labed by the creativity of the map-maker. I doubt this was a Grande Scheme to introduce a Federal School System into the US conscious. If it was it failed miserably for the next 100 years.

 

[Samson]

My point is that it is not smart to educate every one. Or at least attempt to.
My point is that it is not a constitutional right.

So what would happen if Constitutionalist Libertarians got in charge?

Since there's no mention of Public Education in the Constitution, then Funding For Public Education would be minimalized.

I'm certain Libertarians would shut down the Dept of Education.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

How would the state not paying for your education violate any of your constitutional rights?

Taxation without Providing the goods required of that taxation.

But Education does not appear in the Federal Government at any point at all, not the Constitution anyway. It is a power grab pure and simple. The claim is it impacts Interstate Commerce. Every hear that one used before?

 

[chanel]

States have their own constitutions. In NJ it is spelled out that every child is guaranteed the "right" to a free and appropriate education (until the age of 19 and 21, if classified). The NJ Supreme Court has interpreted that to mean that expulsion is "unconstitutional". The taxpayers of NJ must pay for the "education" of the uneducable - even if they bring a gun to school.

I'm curious whether any other states have outlawed expulsion.

 

[editec]

How would the state not paying for your education violate any of your constitutional rights?

Depends on the STATE consitution, doesn't it?

Heard recently that the first state to mandate compulsuary ED took that step around 1840.

The last state to mandate compulsary education made that decision around 1910.

These are currently mostly STATE decisions.

The FEDS don't really have that responsibility.

 

[stoneridge]

How would the state not paying for your education violate any of your constitutional rights?

I am assuming your question was spurred by the drivel we heard in the SOTU Address of recent. This was a line used by used car salesman for years. No problem, we will take care of you. If it breaks we will fix it. What a line of BS. PBO has had a super majority for the last year and can't sell band-aids or cough syrup to the sick.

Folks Common Sense is still alive and well. And it lives in N.J., Va and Ma.