Iran's Fordow Still Standing. Mission Not Accomplished!

[Delldude]

No, the only thing you've done is refuse to acknowledge the IAEA's own findings on their website from 2015-2018, instead you've pushed your own narratives to make it sound like Iran has been secretly creating a nuclear weapon from the start when there has been no evidence of this. Major violations of the JCPOA with regards to installing certrifuges, enriching uranium past 3.5%, stockpiling, etc. This only happened late 2018 and into 2019 and beyond. This has all been recorded by the IAEA. Nothing like this had happened before Trump pulled out of the agreement. Suck on that!

Evidence is available.

I'm sure they post their most intimate findings on their website.

IAEA isn't an intel agency.

 

[krichton]

Evidence is available.

I'm sure they post their most intimate findings on their website.

IAEA isn't an intel agency.

Yes, evidence that Iran was neither enriching uranium past 3.5%, nor stockpiling nor installing additional centrifuges.

Ok, when presented with actual facts, just reply with conspiracies.

 

[Delldude]

Yes, evidence that Iran was neither enriching uranium past 3.5%, nor stockpiling nor installing additional centrifuges.

Ok, when presented with actual facts, just reply with conspiracies.

Trump had full access to US Intel reports as well as monitoring reports IAEA makes available to JCPOA participants and not the public.

The entire purpose was not to eliminate Iran's seeking to make nuclear bombs, only to delay it. Any failures in the 'deal' would be a black eye on the US's second black president, hence the glowing reports of compliance even when inspectors publicly reporting Iran playing shell games with scheduled inspections and immediate access.

The whole process was politicized from the start.

Obama's lifting sanctions only gave Iran the means to purchase more military hardware which it sent to all their proxies in the region.

Even with the US withdrawing from JCPOA, Iran was still obligated to honor their previous commitments. How'd that work out?

The treasure trove of secret documents Mossad captured from an Iranian storage facility exposed that Iran had been 'cheating' all along diverting some of the Iranium, adding centrifuges above the limits, etc.

All conspiracy theories............

 

[krichton]

Iran has been in violation of the NPT for years and began JCPOA in violation of that agreement. Iran had guaranteed its Arak reactor, and heavy water reactor that produces plutonium had been filled with cement so that it could never be used again, but when Israel bombed it, it was in service and producing plutonium. Obama said trust but verify, but he clearly did not verify, and if he had, he would likely have covered up the findings because under JCPOA if Iran denied a violation, it would take a three or four month period of investigation before any action could be taken and then the only action allowed was to end the agreement.

JCPOA was deeply flawed in other very important ways. The inspectors were only allowed to inspect sites Iran had designated as nuclear sites, but Iran had a long history of violating NPT by developing nuclear sites without telling the IAEA about them, Natanz and Arak among them.

Before Obama fumbled his way through negotiations with Iran, the US position had always been exactly what President Trump's position is today, no enrichment. The reason for this was Iran's aggressive behavior in the ME and beyond. In addition to constantly attacking Israel through its Shi'ite proxies and declaring it was on a mission from G-d to destroy Israel, Iran had rendered Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Yemen failed states by subverting their Shi'ite populations to supersede the governments of those states, but Obama declared right from the start of negotiations that he would not take Iran's aggressive behaviors into consideration during negotiations.

Once a country has a large, well established enrichment program it can easily use it to produce fissile material for a bomb, and that is exactly what Iran did when the US withdrew from the deeply flawed JCPOA agreement and this move validates the pre Obama US position of no enrichment for Iran.

Iran never guaranteed to completely dismantle their Arak reactor. This claim is untrue. Under the JCPOA, they agreed to disable it, but not in a way that made the entire reactor permanently inoperable forever, only certain parts. However, they were deceptive, as they disabled it in a manner that allowed them the option to reactivate the reactor if they chose to. Something about replacing the tubes. This reactivation did not occur until 2019 when the JCPOA no longer existed Arak was completely offline from 2015-2018.

Everyone and their mother knew about Netanz and Arak so I honestly don't know what you're talking about. These are declared sites in the JCPOA.

According to Trump's own hand picked national intelligence director, Iran was not making a bomb, nor was one authorized and directed to be made by their leader. To say otherwise is to do so without evidence and is just a guess, nothing more.

 

[krichton]

Trump had full access to US Intel reports as well as monitoring reports IAEA makes available to JCPOA participants and not the public.

The entire purpose was not to eliminate Iran's seeking to make nuclear bombs, only to delay it. Any failures in the 'deal' would be a black eye on the US's second black president, hence the glowing reports of compliance even when inspectors publicly reporting Iran playing shell games with scheduled inspections and immediate access.

The whole process was politicized from the start.

Obama's lifting sanctions only gave Iran the means to purchase more military hardware which it sent to all their proxies in the region.

Even with the US withdrawing from JCPOA, Iran was still obligated to honor their previous commitments. How'd that work out?

The treasure trove of secret documents Mossad captured from an Iranian storage facility exposed that Iran had been 'cheating' all along diverting some of the Iranium, adding centrifuges above the limits, etc.

All conspiracy theories............

Produce those reports.

Iran is currently under the heaviest sanctions we know of and has been for like 8 years now. Has that stopped Iran from purchasing military hardware and sending it to their proxies, as you're claiming?

Why on earth would Iran follow an agreement that has been pretty much voided?

"All along" More conspiracies in order to justify your narrative and protect Trump, smh

 

[Delldude]

Produce those reports.

I thought they'd be on their website like you said.

However, they were deceptive, as they disabled it in a manner that allowed them the option to reactivate the reactor if they chose to.

No shit????

Thank you for proving my whole point......

Iran is currently under the heaviest sanctions we know of and has been for like 8 years now. Has that stopped Iran from purchasing military hardware and sending it to their proxies, as you're claiming?

Funny how a couple huge infusions of large amounts of cash from Obama and Biden tightened up all Iran's proxies.

Why on earth would Iran follow an agreement that has been pretty much voided?

They proved their original intentions, didn't they?

Nothing to protect now except a bunch of smoking holes in the desert.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Iran never guaranteed to completely dismantle their Arak reactor. This claim is untrue. Under the JCPOA, they agreed to disable it, but not in a way that made the entire reactor permanently inoperable forever, only certain parts. However, they were deceptive, as they disabled it in a manner that allowed them the option to reactivate the reactor if they chose to. Something about replacing the tubes. This reactivation did not occur until 2019 when the JCPOA no longer existed Arak was completely offline from 2015-2018.

Everyone and their mother knew about Netanz and Arak so I honestly don't know what you're talking about. These are declared sites in the JCPOA.

According to Trump's own hand picked national intelligence director, Iran was not making a bomb, nor was one authorized and directed to be made by their leader. To say otherwise is to do so without evidence and is just a guess, nothing more.

Arak and Natanz were built in secret in violation of the NPT and it was intelligence from Iranian exiles that exposed these facts after which Iran acknowledged them.

The existence of this nuclear center [Natanz} was first exposed in 2002 by the People's Mojahedin Organization of Iran.<a href="Natanz Nuclear Facility - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>8</a>

Natanz Nuclear Facility - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

To this day, no one can be certain how long Natanz existed and was functioning before its existence was exposed.

The fact that JCPOA only allowed inspectors to inspect sites Iran declared as nuclear sites made it impossible to detect if Iran was again building nuclear sites in secret.

Saying US did not have evidence Iran was building a bomb is not the same as saying the US knew Iran was not building a bomb; Natanz existed long before the US had evidence it existed.

As long as Iran was allowed to enrich uranium, it retained the ability to build nuclear weapons which it immediately threatened to do when Trump stated in his first administration that he wanted to renegotiate JCPOA, by increasing the level of enrichment beyond any peaceful use. The fact that JCPOA left Iran, one of the most nefarious governments in the world, wreaking havoc and bloodshed across the ME even as the negotiations were going on, with the ability to build nukes makes it clear JCPOA was a failed concept.

In fact, Iran never had a reason to enrich uranium if it was only for peaceful purposes. The IAEA has nuclear sites in which it enriches uranium and processes spent fuel rods for less than it would have cost Iran to do it themselves, so from the start, Iran's whole nuclear program was aimed at having at least a plausible nuclear weapons capability and JCPOA gave it to them.

 

[Delldude]

Arak and Natanz were built in secret in violation of the NPT and it was intelligence from Iranian exiles that exposed these facts after which Iran acknowledged them.

It was leveled I think around 2007?

Then it was rebuilt disguising it as a goat farm.


Krichton:

However, they were deceptive, as they disabled it in a manner that allowed them the option to reactivate the reactor if they chose to.

 

[krichton]

I thought they'd be on their website like you said.

You're the one claiming that Trump has information from the IAEA that they don't post. Now show me this information.

No shit????

Thank you for proving my whole point......

But I didn't. Your claim was that Iran has been building a nuclear weapon even during the JCPOA, but you haven't provided a single ounce of proof to back up this claim, which actually proves my point.

Funny how a couple huge infusions of large amounts of cash from Obama and Biden tightened up all Iran's proxies.

The JCPOA was already voided when Biden took office, and Trump's sanctions on Iran were now in place. How would Iran suddenly get "huge infusions of cash from Biden? This is an utterly confusing claim.

They proved their original intentions, didn't they?

Nothing to protect now except a bunch of smoking holes in the desert.

Not really.

 

[krichton]

Arak and Natanz were built in secret in violation of the NPT and it was intelligence from Iranian exiles that exposed these facts after which Iran acknowledged them.

The existence of this nuclear center [Natanz} was first exposed in 2002 by the People's Mojahedin Organization of Iran.<a href="Natanz Nuclear Facility - Wikipedia"><span>[</span>8</a>

Natanz Nuclear Facility - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

To this day, no one can be certain how long Natanz existed and was functioning before its existence was exposed.

The fact that JCPOA only allowed inspectors to inspect sites Iran declared as nuclear sites made it impossible to detect if Iran was again building nuclear sites in secret.

Saying US did not have evidence Iran was building a bomb is not the same as saying the US knew Iran was not building a bomb; Natanz existed long before the US had evidence it existed.

As long as Iran was allowed to enrich uranium, it retained the ability to build nuclear weapons which it immediately threatened to do when Trump stated in his first administration that he wanted to renegotiate JCPOA, by increasing the level of enrichment beyond any peaceful use. The fact that JCPOA left Iran, one of the most nefarious governments in the world, wreaking havoc and bloodshed across the ME even as the negotiations were going on, with the ability to build nukes makes it clear JCPOA was a failed concept.

In fact, Iran never had a reason to enrich uranium if it was only for peaceful purposes. The IAEA has nuclear sites in which it enriches uranium and processes spent fuel rods for less than it would have cost Iran to do it themselves, so from the start, Iran's whole nuclear program was aimed at having at least a plausible nuclear weapons capability and JCPOA gave it to them.

Gee, I wonder where I might have heard these justifications before, for attacking a middle eastern country, for fear they're creating WMDs, hmmm. Evidence? Who needs when you want to start a war?!

 

[JohnDB]

Would ya look at the Iranian troll bot vascillate and defend "poor innocent Iran".

Complete nonsense.

 

[Delldude]

Now show me this information.

What's your clearance level?

However, they were deceptive, as they disabled it in a manner that allowed them the option to reactivate the reactor if they chose to.

 

[percysunshine]

Toast.

 

[Grau]

Hopefully these reports are wrong, though as I feared early on, this is probably going to require a special forces unit to get in and destroy it.

It won't be American so, this is going to be a dangerous time.

Re:

It won't be American so, this is going to be a dangerous time.

I'm afraid that you're not considering that the machinations of Israel's Zionist war mongers always ends up costing America dearly in blood and resources.

For example, immediately before 9/11, Iraq was among the countries helping to control relentless Israeli expansionism toward its "Greater Israel" / Lebensraum.
Therefore, Israel's right wing expansionists wanted Iraq destroyed but Israel was both unwilling to sacrifice Israeli lives and unable to accomplish the objective alone

Even though there was absolutely no legitimate reason for America to sacrifice thousands of young American lives and waste over $3 Trillion (1) to destroy Iraq, America's parasitic infestation of Israeli lobbies control US politicians to such an extent that appeasing AIPAC became more compelling than acting in the best interests of the country they swore to serve.

QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.”

AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. Sun, Jan. 2003

Finally, Iran is a sovereign country that has attacked no one in over 300 years and has every right to nuclear power.

The criminal and destructive nature of Israel's unprovoked sneak attack showed that if any country on this planet both deserves and needs a deterrent nuclear arsenal against the "Mad Dog" (2) of the Middle East, it is Iran.

Thanks,

(1). "The True Cost of the Iraq War: $3 Trillion and Beyond"​

The True Cost of the Iraq War: $3 Trillion and Beyond

Writing in these pages in early 2008, we put the total cost to the United States of the Iraq war at $3 trillion. This price tag dwarfed previous estimates, including the Bush administration's 2003 projections of a $50 billion to $60 billion war. But today, as the United States ends combat in...

www.hks.harvard.edu

(2). "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother."

Moshe Dayan

Moshe Dayan Quote

Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.

www.azquotes.com

 

[toomuchtime_]

Gee, I wonder where I might have heard these justifications before, for attacking a middle eastern country, for fear they're creating WMDs, hmmm. Evidence? Who needs when you want to start a war?!

The war has been going on for 45 years, but it was Obama who reversed US policy by giving the ayatollahs official US permission to enrich uranium and thereby have a plausible nuclear threat to back up its nefarious activities in the ME and beyond. It falls to President Trump now to correct Obama's egregious error.

 

[Delldude]

The war has been going on for 45 years, but it was Obama who reversed US policy by giving the ayatollahs official US permission to enrich uranium and thereby have a plausible nuclear threat to back up its nefarious activities in the ME and beyond. It falls to President Trump now to correct Obama's egregious error.

Don't forget, he let the cat out of the bag.

However, they were deceptive,

 

[krichton]

The war has been going on for 45 years, but it was Obama who reversed US policy by giving the ayatollahs official US permission to enrich uranium and thereby have a plausible nuclear threat to back up its nefarious activities in the ME and beyond. It falls to President Trump now to correct Obama's egregious error.

Didn’t you just mention that Iranians secretly built underground nuclear reactors without the US knowing? The whole point of the JCPOA was to ensure transparency by allowing inspectors to routinely monitor their activities. Do you see how that contradicts your own argument?

So, Trump causes a problem, then comes up with a “solution” to fix the issue he created, and then you praise him for it? Yeah, totally not cult-like behavior at all!

 

[krichton]

What's your clearance level?

So in other words, you got nothing.

 

[Delldude]

So in other words, you got nothing.

Your own words put it all into perspective.

However, they were deceptive

 

[toomuchtime_]

Didn’t you just mention that Iranians secretly built underground nuclear reactors without the US knowing? The whole point of the JCPOA was to ensure transparency by allowing inspectors to routinely monitor their activities. Do you see how that contradicts your own argument?

So, Trump causes a problem, then comes up with a “solution” to fix the issue he created, and then you praise him for it? Yeah, totally not cult-like behavior at all!

You shouldn't post when you are drunk. First, I said Iran built nuclear sites, not nuclear reactors, without informing IAEA, which is a requirement of the NPT; Natanz is an example of this. Second, the inspectors are only allowed to inspect sites Iran has declared to be nuclear sites, so they would have no idea if Iran were secretly building a new nuclear site.

There are no facts and there is no argument that can justify Obama officially giving the ayatollahs permission to enrich uranium - thus allowing the ayatollahs to have a plausible nuclear threat to back up their nefarious activities across the ME - when all previous administrations had refused, and there are no protections within JCPOA to prevent Iran from developing nukes as long as they are not doing at a site Iran had declared a nuclear site.

This is why Congress refused to make JCPOA a treaty and why Obama had to increase military aid to Israel, thus acknowledging JCPOA put Israel at greater risk from an Iranian nuke, in order to get enough Democrats to allow JCPOA to go into existence at all.

Just as Obama's critics had said, as soon as the ayatollahs had to face criticism, they started to enrich uranium to weapons grade.