International law or even a legal framework regarding what is legitimate resistance to occupation?

[teddyearp]

No part of the UN designated Jewish partition was attacked by Arab armies in 47-48.<snip>

I have seen this claim made before, care to share your source? You see, I am under the impression that five Arab Armies attacked Israel right after they proclaimed independence.

 

[P F Tinmore]

No part of the UN designated Jewish partition was attacked by Arab armies in 47-48.<snip>

I have seen this claim made before, care to share your source? You see, I am under the impression that five Arab Armies attacked Israel right after they proclaimed independence.

Post a 1948 map of Israel so we can see where these supposed attacks occurred.

That should clear things up.

 

[teddyearp]

Again.

Show us how the European resistance to the Nazi occupation had them targeting only civilian targets.

That is the question my flip flopping fish.

Again, I answered it. The Germans did not demolish European cities and move 'civilians' into the new German only cities that they created. It didn't happen like that. You are still trying to compare apples with spaceships.

No you did not answer the actual question. However, do you realize that you did just agree with me that to compare the resistance efforts against the Nazi's of WWII to what the Palestinians have and are doing is like trying to compare apples with spaceships!

Thank you. Your thread is based upon a false premise by your own admission.

Your arguments are light as a feather, easily blown away to the wind.

 

[RoccoR]

Oh for Heavens sake...

No part of the UN designated Jewish partition was attacked by Arab armies in 47-48.<snip>

I have seen this claim made before, care to share your source? You see, I am under the impression that five Arab Armies attacked Israel right after they proclaimed independence.

Post a 1948 map of Israel so we can see where these supposed attacks occurred.

That should clear things up.

(QUOTATION)

BLUE BOOK -- The Question of Palestine and the United Nations (DPI2499)
The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949

On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged
its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the
State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities
immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day,
regular troops of the neighbouring Arab States entered the territory to assist the
Palestinian Arabs.

The fighting was halted after several weeks, under a four-week truce called for
by the Security Council on 29 May 1948. The truce went into effect on 11 June and
was supervised by the United Nations Mediator with the assistance of a group of
international military observers, which came to be known as the United Nations
Truce Supervision Organization (UNTSO). Despite the efforts of the Mediator,
no agreement could be reached on an extension of the truce, and fighting broke out
again on 8 July.

On 15 July 1948, the Security Council decided in a resolution that the situation
in Palestine constituted a threat to the peace. It ordered a ceasefire and declared that

failure to comply would be construed as a breach of the peace requiring immediate
consideration of enforcement measures under Chapter VII of the United Nations
Charter. In accordance with the resolution, a second truce came into force. By
that time, Israel controlled much of the territory allotted to the Arab State by the
partition resolution, including the western part of Jerusalem. Egypt and Jordan
respectively controlled the remaining portions of the Gaza district and the West
Bank of the Jordan River (which included East Jerusalem, with its walled Old
City). More fighting took place in October 1948 and March 1949, during which
Israel took over other areas, some of which had been allotted to the Arab State. In
1950, Jordan brought the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, formally under its
jurisdiction pending a solution to the problem.
(END QOUTE)

• 05/17/1948 • PAL/171 • Attack on Jewish quarter Jerusalem -

Most Respectfully,
R

(ANCILLARY REFERENCES)

• 05/18/1948 • S/772 • Situation in Palestine - Presence of Saudi Arabian troops
• 05/18/1948 • S/774 • Situation in Palestine - Presence of Yemeni troops
• 05/18/1948 • S/760 • Situation in Palestine - Presence of Transjordan troops
• 05/17/1948 • PAL/171 • Attack on Jewish quarter Jerusalem
• 05/16/1948 • PAL/167 • Transjordan army entry into Palestine

 

[abi]

Oh for Heavens sake...

No part of the UN designated Jewish partition was attacked by Arab armies in 47-48.<snip>

I have seen this claim made before, care to share your source? You see, I am under the impression that five Arab Armies attacked Israel right after they proclaimed independence.

Post a 1948 map of Israel so we can see where these supposed attacks occurred.

That should clear things up.

(QUOTATION)

BLUE BOOK -- The Question of Palestine and the United Nations (DPI2499)
The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949

On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged
its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the
State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities
immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day,
regular troops of the neighbouring Arab States entered the territory to assist the
Palestinian Arabs.

The fighting was halted after several weeks, under a four-week truce called for
by the Security Council on 29 May 1948. The truce went into effect on 11 June and
was supervised by the United Nations Mediator with the assistance of a group of
international military observers, which came to be known as the United Nations
Truce Supervision Organization (UNTSO). Despite the efforts of the Mediator,
no agreement could be reached on an extension of the truce, and fighting broke out
again on 8 July.

On 15 July 1948, the Security Council decided in a resolution that the situation
in Palestine constituted a threat to the peace. It ordered a ceasefire and declared that

failure to comply would be construed as a breach of the peace requiring immediate
consideration of enforcement measures under Chapter VII of the United Nations
Charter. In accordance with the resolution, a second truce came into force. By
that time, Israel controlled much of the territory allotted to the Arab State by the
partition resolution, including the western part of Jerusalem. Egypt and Jordan
respectively controlled the remaining portions of the Gaza district and the West
Bank of the Jordan River (which included East Jerusalem, with its walled Old
City). More fighting took place in October 1948 and March 1949, during which
Israel took over other areas, some of which had been allotted to the Arab State. In
1950, Jordan brought the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, formally under its
jurisdiction pending a solution to the problem.
(END QOUTE)

• 05/17/1948 • PAL/171 • Attack on Jewish quarter Jerusalem -

Most Respectfully,
R

(ANCILLARY REFERENCES)

• 05/18/1948 • S/772 • Situation in Palestine - Presence of Saudi Arabian troops
• 05/18/1948 • S/774 • Situation in Palestine - Presence of Yemeni troops
• 05/18/1948 • S/760 • Situation in Palestine - Presence of Transjordan troops
• 05/17/1948 • PAL/171 • Attack on Jewish quarter Jerusalem
• 05/16/1948 • PAL/167 • Transjordan army entry into Palestine

Rocco, in your opinion, what is legally accepted resistance to occupation? And what lengths would you go to to fight for your freedom?

 

[montelatici]

Oh for Heavens sake...

No part of the UN designated Jewish partition was attacked by Arab armies in 47-48.<snip>

I have seen this claim made before, care to share your source? You see, I am under the impression that five Arab Armies attacked Israel right after they proclaimed independence.

Post a 1948 map of Israel so we can see where these supposed attacks occurred.

That should clear things up.

(QUOTATION)

BLUE BOOK -- The Question of Palestine and the United Nations (DPI2499)
The first Arab-Israeli war, 1948-1949

On 14 May 1948, Britain relinquished its Mandate over Palestine and disengaged
its forces. On the same day, the Jewish Agency proclaimed the establishment of the
State of Israel on the territory allotted to it by the partition plan. Fierce hostilities
immediately broke out between the Arab and Jewish communities. The next day,
regular troops of the neighbouring Arab States entered the territory to assist the
Palestinian Arabs.

The fighting was halted after several weeks, under a four-week truce called for
by the Security Council on 29 May 1948. The truce went into effect on 11 June and
was supervised by the United Nations Mediator with the assistance of a group of
international military observers, which came to be known as the United Nations
Truce Supervision Organization (UNTSO). Despite the efforts of the Mediator,
no agreement could be reached on an extension of the truce, and fighting broke out
again on 8 July.

On 15 July 1948, the Security Council decided in a resolution that the situation
in Palestine constituted a threat to the peace. It ordered a ceasefire and declared that

failure to comply would be construed as a breach of the peace requiring immediate
consideration of enforcement measures under Chapter VII of the United Nations
Charter. In accordance with the resolution, a second truce came into force. By
that time, Israel controlled much of the territory allotted to the Arab State by the
partition resolution, including the western part of Jerusalem. Egypt and Jordan
respectively controlled the remaining portions of the Gaza district and the West
Bank of the Jordan River (which included East Jerusalem, with its walled Old
City). More fighting took place in October 1948 and March 1949, during which
Israel took over other areas, some of which had been allotted to the Arab State. In
1950, Jordan brought the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, formally under its
jurisdiction pending a solution to the problem.
(END QOUTE)

• 05/17/1948 • PAL/171 • Attack on Jewish quarter Jerusalem -

Most Respectfully,
R

(ANCILLARY REFERENCES)

• 05/18/1948 • S/772 • Situation in Palestine - Presence of Saudi Arabian troops
• 05/18/1948 • S/774 • Situation in Palestine - Presence of Yemeni troops
• 05/18/1948 • S/760 • Situation in Palestine - Presence of Transjordan troops
• 05/17/1948 • PAL/171 • Attack on Jewish quarter Jerusalem
• 05/16/1948 • PAL/167 • Transjordan army entry into Palestine

So, what part of the UN defined Jewish sector was invaded by the Arab League's forces?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: International law or even a legal framework regarding what is legitimate resistance to occupation?
※→ montelatici, et al,

Lets face it. Everyone that writes their particular story about those historic events, writes it to fit their agenda. They may all be telling their version of what they saw and who they observed doing what - when, by everyone who writes about, places and events with there own slant to it.

And yes, there was a Palestinian Civil War (some say 1946-1948 and some say 1947-1948)(CERI uses the period of period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 for Eligibility and Registration) prior to the termination of the Mandate. But, there was fighting even much earlier than that.

The 1947–48 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine (sometimes called an intercommunal war) in which the Jewish and Arab communities of Palestine, supported by the Arab Liberation Army, clashed, while the region was still fully under British rule.

Let's be clear, the Zionists believe that the Palestinians should peacefully accept Jew rule and occupation of the land that prior to the end of WW1 they were, Muslims and Christians, over 90% of population.

No part of the UN designated Jewish partition was attacked by Arab armies in 47-48. Arab armies tried, unsuccessfully, to prevent the Jews from killing and/or expelling non-Jews from their homes within the UN designated Arab partition and international sector. In fact, Jaffa within the Arab sector was attacked and surrendered to the invading Jews before the state of Israel was declared. The Jews had been attacking Arabs within the Arab sector for months prior to the Arab League intervention.

(COMMENT)

In a cable gram I once read that was sent at the outset of the conflict (15 May 1948) and a bit amplified a few days later (18 May), the various factions started to align their future positions.

• The League of Arab States is responsible for the exercise of political functions in any and all parts of Palestine. We also refer in particular to paragraph E, page 4 (S/745)

• Their military objectives are to help pacify Palestine in cooperation with the forces of other States of the Arab League, as stated in the memorandum of the Secretary-General of the Arab League on May 1 (document S/745).

• The League of Arab States is not now [22 May] negotiating with the Jews on a political settlement in Palestine and will not enter into such negotiations so long as the Jews persist in their intention and their efforts to establish a Jewish state in Palestine.
​

These positions still hold today, only evolved to adapt to the current conditions set by the parties. The Palestinians have, on several occasions, setout the conditions for negotiations to begin with Israel. The Palestinians have for years, refused talks with Israel without preconditions. I suppose the US is heartbroken that the Palestinians no longer wants the US involved in the talks. Participating in nothing is the same as not participating in a something which is nothing.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

Again, the Arab League intervened in 1948 to prevent the Jews from continuing their ethnic cleansing and killing of non-Jews and never entered the UN designated Jewish partition. More to the point, prior to the Arab League's intervention, the Jews had already forced Jaffa (within the Arab sector) to surrender and evicted and/or killed as many non-Jews as they could. Again, the Jews had started the seige of Jaffa weeks before the Israeli declaration of independence and the arrival of the Arab League intervention forces.

These are the inconvenient facts. There are contemporaneous British military reports to this effect.

 

[Hollie]

No part of the UN designated Jewish partition was attacked by Arab armies in 47-48.<snip>

I have seen this claim made before, care to share your source? You see, I am under the impression that five Arab Armies attacked Israel right after they proclaimed independence.

Post a 1948 map of Israel so we can see where these supposed attacks occurred.

That should clear things up.

It wasn’t a “supposed attack”. It was a matter of combined Arab-Moslem Crusaders crossings the frontier in a coordinated attack. Your appalling lack of knowledge is concerning.

 

[Hollie]

Again, the Arab League intervened in 1948 to prevent the Jews from continuing their ethnic cleansing and killing of non-Jews and never entered the UN designated Jewish partition. More to the point, prior to the Arab League's intervention, the Jews had already forced Jaffa (within the Arab sector) to surrender and evicted and/or killed as many non-Jews as they could. Again, the Jews had started the seige of Jaffa weeks before the Israeli declaration of independence and the arrival of the Arab League intervention forces.

These are the inconvenient facts. There are contemporaneous British military reports to this effect.

Again, the Arab-Moslem Crusaders were intending to fulfill their stated goal of destroying the nascent State of Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

No part of the UN designated Jewish partition was attacked by Arab armies in 47-48.<snip>

I have seen this claim made before, care to share your source? You see, I am under the impression that five Arab Armies attacked Israel right after they proclaimed independence.

Post a 1948 map of Israel so we can see where these supposed attacks occurred.

That should clear things up.

It wasn’t a “supposed attack”. It was a matter of combined Arab-Moslem Crusaders crossings the frontier in a coordinated attack. Your appalling lack of knowledge is concerning.

That wasn't the question.

When and where did those troops enter Israeli territory? The propaganda says that Israel was attacked. I have seen no historical record of that happening.

 

[abi]

It wasn’t a “supposed attack”. It was a matter of combined Arab-Moslem Crusaders crossings the frontier in a coordinated attack. Your appalling lack of knowledge is concerning.

Can you just say when and where those troops entered Israeli territory?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Again, the Arab League intervened in 1948 to prevent the Jews from continuing their ethnic cleansing and killing of non-Jews and never entered the UN designated Jewish partition. More to the point, prior to the Arab League's intervention, the Jews had already forced Jaffa (within the Arab sector) to surrender and evicted and/or killed as many non-Jews as they could. Again, the Jews had started the seige of Jaffa weeks before the Israeli declaration of independence and the arrival of the Arab League intervention forces.

These are the inconvenient facts. There are contemporaneous British military reports to this effect.

Good post, thanks. One thing though. Resolution 181 was never implemented so the UN designated Jewish partition was not there either.

 

[Hollie]

No part of the UN designated Jewish partition was attacked by Arab armies in 47-48.<snip>

I have seen this claim made before, care to share your source? You see, I am under the impression that five Arab Armies attacked Israel right after they proclaimed independence.

Post a 1948 map of Israel so we can see where these supposed attacks occurred.

That should clear things up.

It wasn’t a “supposed attack”. It was a matter of combined Arab-Moslem Crusaders crossings the frontier in a coordinated attack. Your appalling lack of knowledge is concerning.

That wasn't the question.

When and where did those troops enter Israeli territory? The propaganda says that Israel was attacked. I have seen no historical record of that happening.

You didn’t ask a question. You made a bogus claim that was refuted. Now you are scrambling to avoid further embarrassment.

Milestones: 1945–1952 - Office of the Historian

 

[Hollie]

Again, the Arab League intervened in 1948 to prevent the Jews from continuing their ethnic cleansing and killing of non-Jews and never entered the UN designated Jewish partition. More to the point, prior to the Arab League's intervention, the Jews had already forced Jaffa (within the Arab sector) to surrender and evicted and/or killed as many non-Jews as they could. Again, the Jews had started the seige of Jaffa weeks before the Israeli declaration of independence and the arrival of the Arab League intervention forces.

These are the inconvenient facts. There are contemporaneous British military reports to this effect.

Good post, thanks. One thing though. Resolution 181 was never implemented so the UN designated Jewish partition was not there either.

There was no requirement for a UN partition to allow the creation of a sovereign State of Israel. The Israelis were able to establish sovereignty while you retrograde Arabs-Moslems could not and still cannot.

 

[P F Tinmore]

No part of the UN designated Jewish partition was attacked by Arab armies in 47-48.<snip>

I have seen this claim made before, care to share your source? You see, I am under the impression that five Arab Armies attacked Israel right after they proclaimed independence.

Post a 1948 map of Israel so we can see where these supposed attacks occurred.

That should clear things up.

It wasn’t a “supposed attack”. It was a matter of combined Arab-Moslem Crusaders crossings the frontier in a coordinated attack. Your appalling lack of knowledge is concerning.

That wasn't the question.

When and where did those troops enter Israeli territory? The propaganda says that Israel was attacked. I have seen no historical record of that happening.

You didn’t ask a question. You made a bogus claim that was refuted. Now you are scrambling to avoid further embarrassment.

Milestones: 1945–1952 - Office of the Historian

They didn't say anything about attacking Israel.

BTW, they mentioned resolution 181 but did not mention that it was never implemented. This was not a particularly good version of history.

 

[Hollie]

I have seen this claim made before, care to share your source? You see, I am under the impression that five Arab Armies attacked Israel right after they proclaimed independence.

Post a 1948 map of Israel so we can see where these supposed attacks occurred.

That should clear things up.

It wasn’t a “supposed attack”. It was a matter of combined Arab-Moslem Crusaders crossings the frontier in a coordinated attack. Your appalling lack of knowledge is concerning.

That wasn't the question.

When and where did those troops enter Israeli territory? The propaganda says that Israel was attacked. I have seen no historical record of that happening.

You didn’t ask a question. You made a bogus claim that was refuted. Now you are scrambling to avoid further embarrassment.

Milestones: 1945–1952 - Office of the Historian

They didn't say anything about attacking Israel.

BTW, they mentioned resolution 181 but did not mention that it was never implemented. This was not a particularly good version of history.

I think you’re frantically trying to invent your own version of history. You can invent all the denials you wish and retreat to your usual conspiracy theories but the historical record speaks for itself.

 

[abi]

I think you’re frantically trying to invent your own version of history. You can invent all the denials you wish and retreat to your usual conspiracy theories but the historical record speaks for itself.

Can you just say when and where those troops entered Israeli territory?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Again, the Arab League intervened in 1948 to prevent the Jews from continuing their ethnic cleansing and killing of non-Jews and never entered the UN designated Jewish partition. More to the point, prior to the Arab League's intervention, the Jews had already forced Jaffa (within the Arab sector) to surrender and evicted and/or killed as many non-Jews as they could. Again, the Jews had started the seige of Jaffa weeks before the Israeli declaration of independence and the arrival of the Arab League intervention forces.

These are the inconvenient facts. There are contemporaneous British military reports to this effect.

Good post, thanks. One thing though. Resolution 181 was never implemented so the UN designated Jewish partition was not there either.

There was no requirement for a UN partition to allow the creation of a sovereign State of Israel. The Israelis were able to establish sovereignty while you retrograde Arabs-Moslems could not and still cannot.

A critical component in Israel's statehood bid was a defined territory. Israel did not have, and still does not have, a defined territory.

This is critical information in the Palestinians right to resistance.

 

[Hollie]

Again, the Arab League intervened in 1948 to prevent the Jews from continuing their ethnic cleansing and killing of non-Jews and never entered the UN designated Jewish partition. More to the point, prior to the Arab League's intervention, the Jews had already forced Jaffa (within the Arab sector) to surrender and evicted and/or killed as many non-Jews as they could. Again, the Jews had started the seige of Jaffa weeks before the Israeli declaration of independence and the arrival of the Arab League intervention forces.

These are the inconvenient facts. There are contemporaneous British military reports to this effect.

Good post, thanks. One thing though. Resolution 181 was never implemented so the UN designated Jewish partition was not there either.

There was no requirement for a UN partition to allow the creation of a sovereign State of Israel. The Israelis were able to establish sovereignty while you retrograde Arabs-Moslems could not and still cannot.

A critical component in Israel's statehood bid was a defined territory. Israel did not have, and still does not have, a defined territory.

This is critical information in the Palestinians right to resistance.

This has been addressed for you on many occassions. Israel’s defined territory is the territory it controls, has sovereign control over in addition to territorial agreements with its neighbors.

As usual, your frantic attempts to deny contingent reality leaves you appearing quite desperate.