Indians: Had Enough of the Mythology?

[PoliticalChic]

nothing funnier than dopes and dupes acting like they could ever 'school' ravi on anything...

Someone could teach me how to change a tire. But then again, there's always AAA.

good point...

Yechhhhh....this is nauseating.

Have you no self respect???

 

[JakeStarkey]

The genocide against the First Peoples annihilated 90% of more in less than 100 years, far more than the Jews in Europe during WWII, far more than Africans in the Negro Chattel Slavery in the Americas.

They were all awful and not to be understated.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The genocide against the First Peoples annihilated 90% of more in less than 100 years, far more than the Jews in Europe during WWII, far more than Africans in the Negro Chattel Slavery in the Americas.

They were all awful and not to be understated.

Perhaps you should find the actual meaning of genocide.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Not your fascistic far right wack meaning, PC: never.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Who was the dolt who said " Before the settlers, the rivers were full of fishes and air was clean." ??????
Cabbie????
Again?








9. These 'Noble Savages' were responsible for the extinction of a number of animals.

‘One successful kill of a number of adult animals,’ wrote Wright, describing the effects on the ecosystem of a jump near Jackson Hole, ‘would have reduced the breeding potential of the local [bison] herd to a level where it was no longer a significant part of the valley ecosystem.'
Chase, Op.Cit., p. 99-100

"Until ten thousand years ago an incredible bestiary of mammals roamed North America.
These were the so-called mega-fauna, an exotic menagerie that included the woollymammoth, saber-toothed tiger, giant sloth, giant beaver, camel, horse, two-toed horse, and dire wolf. These were the dominant fauna on this continent for tens of millions of years. Then suddenly and mysteriously they disappeared."
Ibid.
Now...who could have destroyed all those animals??
There is no evidence of changing climate or habitat....



10. What happens to stone-age mentalities when they destroy the natural resources?

" When Lewis and Clark first met the Shoshone in 1805, they were starving. Their chieftold the explorers they had ‘nothing but berries to eat’...Another explorer, visiting the Lemhi...in 1811, described them as ‘the poorest and most miserable nation I everbeheld; having scarcely anything to subsist on except berries and a few fish’.
Ibid.

a. There is no evidence that tribal peoples ever worried about extinction, or indeed had any concept of it. As Wallace Kaufman points out in "No Turning Back," given the opportunity, they would pursue any prey species in whatever numbers were available, and often for reasons which were quite as frivolous as any associated with modern consumerist societies.


Want an example of said mentality?
Women of the Crow tribe wore dresses decorated with 700 elk teeth. As there were only two of these teeth per elk, each dress each such dress represented 350 slaughtered animals.
"The Crow Indians," by Robert H. Lowie and Phenocia Bauerle



So much for "Noble Savages" living in harmony with nature.

Dude.
Aww, it's so cute when you try to talk about things you don't understand.

But wait! You are claiming mankind affects the environment! Progress!

"
Aww, it's so cute when you try to talk about things you don't understand.

Aww, it's so cute when you try to talk about things you don't understand.

Who was the dolt who said " Before the settlers, the rivers were full of fishes and air was clean." ??????
Cabbie????
Again?








9. These 'Noble Savages' were responsible for the extinction of a number of animals.

‘One successful kill of a number of adult animals,’ wrote Wright, describing the effects on the ecosystem of a jump near Jackson Hole, ‘would have reduced the breeding potential of the local [bison] herd to a level where it was no longer a significant part of the valley ecosystem.'
Chase, Op.Cit., p. 99-100

"Until ten thousand years ago an incredible bestiary of mammals roamed North America.
These were the so-called mega-fauna, an exotic menagerie that included the woollymammoth, saber-toothed tiger, giant sloth, giant beaver, camel, horse, two-toed horse, and dire wolf. These were the dominant fauna on this continent for tens of millions of years. Then suddenly and mysteriously they disappeared."
Ibid.
Now...who could have destroyed all those animals??
There is no evidence of changing climate or habitat....



10. What happens to stone-age mentalities when they destroy the natural resources?

" When Lewis and Clark first met the Shoshone in 1805, they were starving. Their chieftold the explorers they had ‘nothing but berries to eat’...Another explorer, visiting the Lemhi...in 1811, described them as ‘the poorest and most miserable nation I everbeheld; having scarcely anything to subsist on except berries and a few fish’.
Ibid.

a. There is no evidence that tribal peoples ever worried about extinction, or indeed had any concept of it. As Wallace Kaufman points out in "No Turning Back," given the opportunity, they would pursue any prey species in whatever numbers were available, and often for reasons which were quite as frivolous as any associated with modern consumerist societies.


Want an example of said mentality?
Women of the Crow tribe wore dresses decorated with 700 elk teeth. As there were only two of these teeth per elk, each dress each such dress represented 350 slaughtered animals.
"The Crow Indians," by Robert H. Lowie and Phenocia Bauerle



So much for "Noble Savages" living in harmony with nature.

Dude. The saber toot tigers and the rest of those you've listed became extinct before Native Americans were Native Americans.

But wait! You are claiming mankind affects the environment! Progress!

"Dude. The saber toot (sic) tigers and the rest of those you've listed became extinct before Native Americans were Native Americans."

Wrong again.

The extinction of the megafauna coincides with the time the first tribes inhabited the continente.

1. "Saber-toothed cats, American lions, woolly mammoths and other giant creatures once roamed across the American landscape. However, at the end of the late Pleistocene about 12,000 years ago, these "megafauna" went extinct, a die-off called the Quaternary extinction."
Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats


2. "Prevailing ideas point to all Native Americans descending from ancient Siberians who moved across the Beringia land bridge between Asia and North America between 26,000 and 18,000 years ago. As time wore on, the thinking goes, these people spread southward and gave rise to the Native American populations encountered by European settlers centuries ago.
: History Travel Arts Science People Places Smithsonian



Perhaps you have a better memory than I......when was the last time you got anything right?

I thought this stuff was pretty much common knowledge?
Where the hell did they think the indians came from.....Cleveland?

 

[Ravi]

Okay, my bad, the NAs were around then. But they didn't eat saber toothed tigers. Current wisdom shows that the tigers had enough to eat when they went extinct and that would mean the "theory" that the Native Americans wiped out all the big game is incorrect.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Okay, my bad, the NAs were around then. But they didn't eat saber toothed tigers. Current wisdom shows that the tigers had enough to eat when they went extinct and that would mean the "theory" that the Native Americans wiped out all the big game is incorrect.

Nothing like the testimony of an eye witness!

Thanks so much!

 

[PoliticalChic]

Not your fascistic far right wack meaning, PC: never.

Not your fascistic far right wack meaning, PC: never.

Truly astounding how much effort ignorant individuals like you will put into remaining so.

 

[PoliticalChic]

12. And back to the words of my muse, the Cab-jockey:
[Wasn't it those awwwwww-ful whites who brought] "rampant crime?"


No. It wasn't. Any such belief is due to the Liberal insanity of not understanding human nature. Most especially, that primitives' culture is the law of the jungle.



a. "[Even though they had signed a treaty,] the Cheyennes, viewed the railroads as a threat to the buffalo herds, continued, along with Arapahos and Sioux, attacking every station for 100 miles on either side of Fort Wallace. A force of two to three hundred attacked Pond Creek Station. "... this little stage stop saw so many Indian attacks that Camp Pond Creek, a military encampment, was situated right next to it." Life at Fort Wallace


b. "...The Apache is hostile to all white settlers....."
Annual Report of hte Secretary of War for the year 1867
Annual report of the Secretary of War. 1866 67. - Full View HathiTrust Digital Library HathiTrust Digital Library





13. Nor were the whites the only targets.

"...the Five Civilized Tribes of Indian Territory- the Cherokees, Choctaws, Chickasaws, Creeks, and Seminoles- suffered heavily from Kiowa and Comanche raiders...."



This telegram from the Texas Governor to Washington asked for troops to protect the civilized tribes from the rapacious ones....


a. " J. W. Throckmorton, Governor of Texas. ( Telegram.) to the War Department, Washington City, )
This carnival of crime, of infamous villianies, of brutal murders and revolting outrages.... a long array of facts showing the character and dreadful results of similar raids upon the settlers of Texas by Indians living in Mexico, ....details are fearful, and yet they fall far short of the reality, for the reason that only the ruthless deeds of Indians living in Mexico were specially inquired into or included in this report, while the fiendish atrocities committed upon Texas people by the Comanches, the Kioways, the Apaches, and other savages of the Staked Plains and the mountains beyond, were not examined into nor reported upon. "
Full text of Special report of the adjutant-general of the state of Texas. September 1884


The request by Throckmorton was for 1000 soldiers to protect the Five Tribes.


Protect them from those 'peaceful' Indians???

"Crime"...taking what they wanted from those weaker than themselves was the way of primitive cultures from time immemorial.

So....no, it wasn't the whites who taught said individuals to be criminals.

 

[Ravi]

Okay, my bad, the NAs were around then. But they didn't eat saber toothed tigers. Current wisdom shows that the tigers had enough to eat when they went extinct and that would mean the "theory" that the Native Americans wiped out all the big game is incorrect.

Nothing like the testimony of an eye witness!

Thanks so much!

Oh, shoot, I forgot you were anti-science.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Okay, my bad, the NAs were around then. But they didn't eat saber toothed tigers. Current wisdom shows that the tigers had enough to eat when they went extinct and that would mean the "theory" that the Native Americans wiped out all the big game is incorrect.

Nothing like the testimony of an eye witness!

Thanks so much!

Oh, shoot, I forgot you were anti-science.

I've tried to keep track as to how often you are wrong, but once it got past Avagodro's Number....I gave up.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Thanks for the "mad" props, gal!

As a Commie, Muslim, Marxist who is bent on destroying America, I must say that your posts give me the perfect opportunity to attack conservatism HEAD ON!

I and my constituents, will not rest until animals pull their human pets around on leashes and toilet paper is replaced with good old dry leaves (hey, I can dream....).

I do not necessarily hold to the notion that native Americans were guiltless saints who could do no wrong, but genocide? Absolutely; to the point where there no longer are full-blooded natives left.

Did the US re-nig on just about any treaty that they ever agreed to? Of course they did.

Does that mean we should give it back? Hell no. We did what we did, but don't expect me to buy into the "poor hapless settlers" or "those godless heathen Injun's."

1. "I do not necessarily hold to the notion that native Americans were guiltless saints who could do no wrong, but genocide? Absolutely; to the point where there no longer are full-blooded natives left."


As a Commie, Muslim, Marxist who is bent on destroying America, most of you lack the ability to use words with precision...as I do....or, as in this case, you use words to alter the reality.


There is a definition of genocide, and this is not it: "...genocide? Absolutely; to the point where there no longer are full-blooded natives left."

The only question is, is it a lie of omission, or one of commission.

'Fess up: do you know that you are lying?



2."I do not necessarily hold to the notion that native Americans were guiltless saints..."
a. They were not 'Native"....merely a little earlier than the European settlers.
Ever hear of the Bering Straits?

b. Now you have retreated from your earlier descriptions of said Indians....but I have no intention of altering my thesis....and, today and tomorrow, I will provide the education you are so sorely lacking.



Keep that meter running, Cabbie!

More to come!

DNA tests on yet to be found bones will prove Europeans came to Florida and Africans came to South America before the genocidal Asiatic hordes crossed the Bering Strait.

Bones are hard to find, because the people got eaten.

Then how do you know they were eaten?

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Adaptations that made saber-toothed cats a successful hunter also made the cats vulnerable to extinction. They most likely went belly up due to a lack of suitable prey.

It took around 8 million years for a new type of saber-tooth to fill the niche of an extinct predecessor; this happened at least four times with different families of animals developing these adaptation(s).

Furthermore, Sabers existed in Asia, Europe and elsewhere -- did native Americans hunt them into extinction overseas, as well?

 

[Ravi]

Adaptations that made saber-toothed cats a successful hunter also made the cats vulnerable to extinction. They most likely went belly up due to a lack of suitable prey.

It took around 8 million years for a new type of saber-tooth to fill the niche of an extinct predecessor; this happened at least four times with different families of animals developing these adaptation(s).

Furthermore, Sabers existed in Asia, Europe and elsewhere -- did native Americans hunt them into extinction overseas, as well?

No, apparently it was not for lack of suitable prey. See article below....and they could have eaten the NAs if they had run out of other prey.

Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats

 

[PoliticalChic]

I couldn't wait to get to a discussion of this aspect of the "Noble Savage" hagiography....


12. And, like any good little Non compos mentis Liberal, our pal Cabbie doesn't want his imaginary Noble Savages smeared' with the truth!

He whines:

"That was my way of saying that the natives were who they were -- not without flaws, but there is certainly no need to vilify them as "savages."


Yeah...there is!
The very best of reasons. They were just that.

"Savage" is the most appropriate term for the Indians as a whole. Latinsilvaticus‘of the woods,’ from silva‘a wood.’
So....in the etymological sense....they were.

Very different from the meaning of 'civilized.'


But in the colloquial sense.....they were also savages!
See if the following informs the term 'savage' as it has been applied.



"The truth Johnny Depp wants to hide about the real-life Tontos: How Comanche Indians butchered babies, roasted enemies alive and would ride 1,000 miles to wipe out one family

The 16-year-old girl’s once-beautiful face was grotesque.


She had been disfigured beyond all recognition in the 18 months she had been held captive by the Comanche Indians. Her head, arms and face were full of bruises and sores,’ wrote one witness, Mary Maverick. ‘And her nose was actually burnt off to the bone. Both nostrils were wide open and denuded of flesh.’


Once handed over, Matilda Lockhart broke down as she described the horrors she had endured — the rape, the relentless sexual humiliation and the way Comanche women had tortured her with fire. It wasn’t just her nose, her thin body was hideously scarred all over with burns.


He refers to the ‘demonic immorality’ of Comanche attacks on white settlers, the way in which torture, killings and gang-rapes were routine. ‘The logic of Comanche raids was straightforward,’ he explains. ‘All the men were killed, and any men who were captured alive were tortured; the captive women were gang raped. Babies were invariably killed.’


.... native Americans are presented in the film as saintly victims of a Old West where it is the white settlers — the men who built America — who represent nothing but exploitation, brutality, environmental destruction and genocide.


‘One by one, the children and young women were pegged out naked beside the camp fire,’ according to a contemporary account. ‘They were skinned, sliced, and horribly mutilated, and finally burned alive by vengeful women determined to wring the last shriek and convulsion from their agonised bodies. Matilda Lockhart’s six-year-old sister was among these unfortunates who died screaming under the high plains moon.’

By casting the cruelest, most aggressive tribe of Indians as mere saps and victims of oppression, Johnny Depp’s Lone Ranger perpetuates the patronising and ignorant cartoon of the ‘noble savage’."
How Comanche Indians butchered babies and roasted enemies alive Daily Mail Online

 

[Ravi]

Why do you keep throwing around the noble savage strawman, PC?

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Adaptations that made saber-toothed cats a successful hunter also made the cats vulnerable to extinction. They most likely went belly up due to a lack of suitable prey.

It took around 8 million years for a new type of saber-tooth to fill the niche of an extinct predecessor; this happened at least four times with different families of animals developing these adaptation(s).

Furthermore, Sabers existed in Asia, Europe and elsewhere -- did native Americans hunt them into extinction overseas, as well?

No, apparently it was not for lack of suitable prey. See article below....and they could have eaten the NAs if they had run out of other prey.

Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats

Kind of a wild guess by me, thanks for pointing that out.

The article still did not offer a reason, certainly not because of over harvesting.

I do not imagine that the natives would have targeted such a dangerous animal with so much more prey available.

 

[Ravi]

Adaptations that made saber-toothed cats a successful hunter also made the cats vulnerable to extinction. They most likely went belly up due to a lack of suitable prey.

It took around 8 million years for a new type of saber-tooth to fill the niche of an extinct predecessor; this happened at least four times with different families of animals developing these adaptation(s).

Furthermore, Sabers existed in Asia, Europe and elsewhere -- did native Americans hunt them into extinction overseas, as well?

No, apparently it was not for lack of suitable prey. See article below....and they could have eaten the NAs if they had run out of other prey.

Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats

Kind of a wild guess by me, thanks for pointing that out.

The article still did not offer a reason, certainly not because of over harvesting.

I do not imagine that the natives would have targeted such a dangerous animal with so much more prey available.

There is some evidence that Noah didn't let them on the ark.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Adaptations that made saber-toothed cats a successful hunter also made the cats vulnerable to extinction. They most likely went belly up due to a lack of suitable prey.

It took around 8 million years for a new type of saber-tooth to fill the niche of an extinct predecessor; this happened at least four times with different families of animals developing these adaptation(s).

Furthermore, Sabers existed in Asia, Europe and elsewhere -- did native Americans hunt them into extinction overseas, as well?

No, apparently it was not for lack of suitable prey. See article below....and they could have eaten the NAs if they had run out of other prey.

Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats

Kind of a wild guess by me, thanks for pointing that out.

The article still did not offer a reason, certainly not because of over harvesting.

I do not imagine that the natives would have targeted such a dangerous animal with so much more prey available.

They'd be a target for the simple fact the indians didnt like being eaten by them.

 

[Mad_Cabbie]

Adaptations that made saber-toothed cats a successful hunter also made the cats vulnerable to extinction. They most likely went belly up due to a lack of suitable prey.

It took around 8 million years for a new type of saber-tooth to fill the niche of an extinct predecessor; this happened at least four times with different families of animals developing these adaptation(s).

Furthermore, Sabers existed in Asia, Europe and elsewhere -- did native Americans hunt them into extinction overseas, as well?

No, apparently it was not for lack of suitable prey. See article below....and they could have eaten the NAs if they had run out of other prey.

Starvation Didn t Wipe Out Sabertooth Cats

Kind of a wild guess by me, thanks for pointing that out.

The article still did not offer a reason, certainly not because of over harvesting.

I do not imagine that the natives would have targeted such a dangerous animal with so much more prey available.

They'd be a target for the simple fact the indians didnt like being eaten by them.

Not necessarily, If I'm hunting to feed my family, I'm not going to waste time hunting something that "might" kill me.