Indiana is for Bigots - video and Pence running for cover

[Jarhead]

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Yeah so, when is a business a "state?" A business cannot pass laws.

How has the baker, or any other purveyor of goods or services, denied a gay couple equal protection under the law by not serving them? There are plenty of other places for them to go. The one thing they still have is a choice, even after being denied. If nobody wanted to serve them, that would change things, wouldn't it?

Dude, we are talking about the State of Indiana passing a law telling Christian business owners that if they discriminate against gays, they are protected at the expense of gays. It is a violation of the equal protection clause.

Dude...nowhere does the law say that. You simply made that up.

 

[orogenicman]

Faggots should stop suing people who refuse to cater to their "lifestyle" and laws like this wouldn't be needed but of course the people in the right are blamed as usual. Indiana will survive and faggots will get over it.

Let's rephrase that, shall we?

"Blacks should stop suing people who refuse to cater to their "lifestyle" and laws like this wouldn't even be needed but of course the people in the right are blamed as usual. Indiana will survive and blacks will get over it".

See how that looks?

Race is not a lifestyle choice.

Neither is homosexuality. Next.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Hmmm....I wonder how a gay restaurant owner would feel if he were forced to, by law, serve a table of 6 who are all wearing "vote NO for gay marriage" shirts.

If he's smart the only creed, opinion, or color he cares about is green. Business is business, neither politics nor religion.

maybe you would have no issue compromising your belief system in an effort to make money...but not everyone feels that ay.

In capitalism the bottom line is the belief system. If you want to run a church, do so, but that's not a business in this case.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Actually, yes they are. They're spreading HIV around which kills people.

What? You think they intentionally spread diseases now too?

Look, although I don't understand "gay" and while I don't believe it is a "normal" state of being, that is no reason for such hatred. I don't think people should be FORCED by the government to do business with anyone. That is MY stance. However, that is an idiotic decision for a business owner to make, and THEY will pay the price. It will not hurt them to bake a cake or take pictures. They don't have to agree with that marriage to do those things. Gay people are human beings too.

To be fair the homosexuals are the largest faction of new AIDS cases being reported to the CDC. It's not intentional, it's being irresponsible and poor judgement

I think every single person on earth has, at least once (but most likely many times), been irresponsible and practiced poor judgment.

I agree and I'm simply pointing out a fact. If the gays are the faction with the most amount of new cases they are obviously using less judgement then the other groups.

Okay, but is that any reason why they can't have cake?

I guess it's up to the individual. If someone honestly feels they are going against their beliefs then yes they should be able to refuse. There are plenty of bakers, florists, etc out there, this is all nonsense and hopefully it will soon pass. Way too many really important issues face this nation and cakes for gays shouldn't be a priority, and it's not, it's being used as a distraction from the main issues

 

[bripat9643]

The asshole is the one who can't grow up enough to understand that being a doctor means you don't get to say I'm Dr. X, but I don't treat faggots or Jews. Grownups know better, you don't.

Which is why less and less truly Moral people are going into careers like Medicine and Law. They can't stomach the things they would be expected to do. Unfortunately that means we're dealing with a lot more immoral doctors, judges, lawyers, etc.... every year.

Truly moral people know that they don't get to pick and choose what parts of humanity to help when they signed up to help humanity.

You don't get to compel other people to do what you think is moral.

I thought you leftwing morons were opposed to government legislating morality.

 

[orogenicman]

Definitely bigotry.

What isn't bigotry? Why isn't contempt towards a Christian deemed bigotry? Hmm?

A bigot is "a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)."

Whether or not contempt is involved is irrelevant. I can have contempt of court because of a specific idea that I abhore, but that doesn't mean that I dislike the judge. I can have contempt for a religion or a religious view, but that doesn't mean that I dislike the religious PERSON. One can disagree with the religion and like the religious. My family is a classic example. I'm an atheist. Most of the rest of my family is devout Catholic. I intensely dislike Catholicism, but love my family. You can intensely dislike homosexuality for whatever reason. You can even dislike the homosexual. But you have no right to discriminate against them because they are homosexuals. The hatred needs to stop. They aren't hurting anyone by being gay any more than heterosexuals are hurting anyone by being heterosexual. Their sexual preference is no one else's business but their own.

So if you feel contempt for all Nazis, does that make you a bigot?

That is NOT a good analogy. Gay people being gay are not hurting anyone! BIG difference there.

They are hurting people by shoving everyone's faces in their lifestyle. Forcing a baker to attend their wedding is hurting the baker, especially when he/she gets fined $100,000. Why should anyone be forced to do something they don't want to do? Can anyone explain that?

I'm sure OJ didn't want to go to prison, but he went anyway. Break the law and you pay the price, bubba.

 

[ChrisL]

What? You think they intentionally spread diseases now too?

Look, although I don't understand "gay" and while I don't believe it is a "normal" state of being, that is no reason for such hatred. I don't think people should be FORCED by the government to do business with anyone. That is MY stance. However, that is an idiotic decision for a business owner to make, and THEY will pay the price. It will not hurt them to bake a cake or take pictures. They don't have to agree with that marriage to do those things. Gay people are human beings too.

To be fair the homosexuals are the largest faction of new AIDS cases being reported to the CDC. It's not intentional, it's being irresponsible and poor judgement

I think every single person on earth has, at least once (but most likely many times), been irresponsible and practiced poor judgment.

I agree and I'm simply pointing out a fact. If the gays are the faction with the most amount of new cases they are obviously using less judgement then the other groups.

Okay, but is that any reason why they can't have cake?

I guess it's up to the individual. If someone honestly feels they are going against their beliefs then yes they should be able to refuse. There are plenty of bakers, florists, etc out there, this is all nonsense and hopefully it will soon pass. Way too many really important issues face this nation and cakes for gays shouldn't be a priority, and it's not, it's being used as a distraction from the main issues

I agree that the government should not force a business owner to have to do business with a person he or she does not want to do business with, but I still think it's a really stupid business decision on the part of the owner. They aren't going to "catch the gay" by making a cake for a wedding or whatever.

Right, it is a distraction. That is why people need to get over this silly bigotry. Gay is not contagious. You aren't going to go to "hell" for baking a cake or whatever either, I'm quite sure. I don't see why they have to make such a big fuss over something so menial. People should be happy that the gay couple is willing to give THEM their business. That's just my opinion.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

You don't get to compel other people to do what you think is moral.

I thought you leftwing morons were opposed to government legislating morality.

1. Yes we do.
2,. Society has morals, which it promotes and defends, most often using the laws it creates.

We have a communal morality here, you just reject that like all other infants, who can think only of themselves.

 

[boilermaker55]

When did you make the decision to be straight?

Faggots should stop suing people who refuse to cater to their "lifestyle" and laws like this wouldn't be needed but of course the people in the right are blamed as usual. Indiana will survive and faggots will get over it.

This is a civil rights battle and all the usual suspects are lined up on the losing side.

Lifestyle choice is not a civil right.

 

[Treeshepherd]

Boycott Indiana? Move the NCAA Finals? I've never seen such hysteria over so little. The bill actually protects freedom of choice. If a photographer doesn't want to work a gay wedding, he can't be forced to by the government. I don't have a problem with that. And if you're getting gay married, why would you want an anti-gay photographer working it in the first place? Wouldn't you rather hire Bruce's Gleeful Photo?

 

[ChrisL]

Meh, maybe it's just me, but I just look at gay people as human beings. I don't really care what they do in their bedroom with one another. Now, if they came into my business and made themselves into some kind of spectacle, that would be another story entirely.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Christians founded this nation on Christian principles.

No, Sweetheart, they didn't, and the founding document doesn't mention God, or Jesus, and forbids making this into a Christian Nation, by law. There's nothing Christian about founding a secular nation.

No, asshat you are wrong.

No, Sweetheart, I am not. You can read the Founders views on religion for yourself. Start here: 5 Founding Fathers Whose Skepticism About Christianity Would Make Them Unelectable Today Alternet

Only five? Lmao at your stupidity. More were Christians then not.

 

[ChrisL]

Boycott Indiana? Move the NCAA Finals? I've never seen such hysteria over so little. The bill actually protects freedom of choice. If a photographer doesn't want to work a gay wedding, he can't be forced to by the government. I don't have a problem with that. And if you're getting gay married, why would you want an anti-gay photographer working it in the first place? Wouldn't you rather hire Bruce's Gleeful Photo?

Well, I do agree with that to an extent, but what if there are no "gay photographers" in your town? I just don't see what the big deal is. They are just people. There is nothing to be afraid of.

 

[ChrisL]

You don't get to compel other people to do what you think is moral.

I thought you leftwing morons were opposed to government legislating morality.

1. Yes we do.
2,. Society has morals, which it promotes and defends, most often using the laws it creates.

We have a communal morality here, you just reject that like all other infants, who can think only of themselves.

Sorry, I have to disagree, of course. You cannot legislate morality.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Meh, maybe it's just me, but I just look at gay people as human beings. I don't really care what they do in their bedroom with one another. Now, if they came into my business and made themselves into some kind of spectacle, that would be another story entirely.

There are gays at my husband's firm and I don't have any issues with them. The issues I have is the ones making a fuss about every little thing.

 

[TemplarKormac]

That is my response.

That did not answer my question. What is it with you and not wanting to answer questions?

And yet you seem to support a law that gives Christian business owners license to be hateful, uncompassionate assholes.

Funny, why aren't you outraged at the other 19 states who passed this kind of law? Why is it just Indiana? Why don't you get angry at Arkansas? How hypocritical.

Dude, we are talking about the State of Indiana passing a law telling Christian business owners that if they discriminate against gays, they are protected at the expense of gays. It is a violation of the equal protection clause.

Bullshit. The law is legal, per Burwell v. Hobby Lobby, as it was cited in passage, another SCOTUS ruling that further enhances the legality of the law is Holt v. Hobbs ruled in January. Both of them protect the rights of a person to exercise his faith sans government burden.

But I will ask you again, why is Indiana so different from the other 19 states who passed this law? Over 18 years these laws were passed and not a peep from you.

I suggest you deal with it.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Boycott Indiana? Move the NCAA Finals? I've never seen such hysteria over so little. The bill actually protects freedom of choice. If a photographer doesn't want to work a gay wedding, he can't be forced to by the government. I don't have a problem with that. And if you're getting gay married, why would you want an anti-gay photographer working it in the first place? Wouldn't you rather hire Bruce's Gleeful Photo?

We've already tried letting the market work this out. It didn't do so well.

 

[orogenicman]

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Yeah so, when is a business a "state?" A business cannot pass laws.

How has the baker, or any other purveyor of goods or services, denied a gay couple equal protection under the law by not serving them? There are plenty of other places for them to go. The one thing they still have is a choice, even after being denied. If nobody wanted to serve them, that would change things, wouldn't it?

Dude, we are talking about the State of Indiana passing a law telling Christian business owners that if they discriminate against gays, they are protected at the expense of gays. It is a violation of the equal protection clause.

Dude...nowhere does the law say that. You simply made that up.

What the law says:

"Religious freedom restoration act. Provides that a state or local government action may not substantially burden a person's right to the exercise of religion unless it is demonstrated that applying the burden to the person's exercise of religion is: (1) essential to further a compelling governmental interest; and (2) the least restrictive means of furthering the compelling governmental interest. Provides that a person whose exercise of religion has been substantially burdened, or is likely to be substantially burdened, by a state or local government action may assert the burden as a claim or defense in a judicial proceeding, regardless of Religious freedom restoration act. Provides that a state or local government action may not substantially burden a person's right to the exercise of religion unless it is demonstrated that applying the burden to the person's exercise of religion is: (1) essential to further a compelling governmental interest; and (2) the least restrictive means of furthering the compelling governmental interest. Provides that a person whose exercise of religion has been substantially burdened, or is likely to be substantially burdened, by a state or local government action may assert the burden as a claim or defense in a judicial proceeding, regardless of whether the state or a political subdivision of the state is a party to the judicial proceeding. Allows a person who asserts a burden as a claim or defense to obtain appropriate relief, including: (1) injunctive relief; (2) declaratory relief; (3) compensatory damages; and (4) recovery of court costs and reasonable attorney's fees."

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Meh, maybe it's just me, but I just look at gay people as human beings. I don't really care what they do in their bedroom with one another. Now, if they came into my business and made themselves into some kind of spectacle, that would be another story entirely.

There are gays at my husband's firm and I don't have any issues with them. The issues I have is the ones making a fuss about every little thing.

The next time they are over call them the name that you use, poofters, and see if you suddenly have a problem.

 

[ChrisL]

Meh, maybe it's just me, but I just look at gay people as human beings. I don't really care what they do in their bedroom with one another. Now, if they came into my business and made themselves into some kind of spectacle, that would be another story entirely.

There are gays at my husband's firm and I don't have any issues with them. The issues I have is the ones making a fuss about every little thing.

Well it seems to me that it is the religious folks that are making a big deal out of it by refusing to do a menial task just because a couple happens to be gay. In my personal opinion, that is just stupid and childish. I can understand if you don't want to be in the wedding party, okay? But to refuse to bake a cake?? It seems like they are just TRYING to be mean, IMO.