Incarceration and Punshment

[☭proletarian☭]

Can anyone explain to me why society and the honest citizens who comprise it should be forced to provide for criminals who are to never be set free? If a man is to be locked away for5 life for his crimes against other people and society, is it not punishing society to force the victims of his crimes and society as a whole to provide for him until his death? Should not he be forced to earn his own keep if he is to be kept alive?

 

[Big Black Dog]

I believe that if person gets sentenced to life in prison, it should mean "life". No early release. Day for day just as the judge says. Now, with that said, if a person was going to be in prison for life, why not just go ahead and execute him? It would save a lot of money and it might possibly be a means to slow down the crime rate a bit. Prisons wouldn't be so over crowded and it would save the individual States a whole lot of money. Going to prison, or jail, shouldn't be a trip to "easy street". It should be a place that nobody ever ever wants to go to.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Society has made that choice.

It may not be the wisest choice, but it is the choice of a democratic society. Which is often weird, but is the best they can do at the time.

My time in jail sort of convinced me that there are folks who just can't function on the outside. In a perfect universe they would be separated from the rest of us for the mutual protection of both. But they are still human, and don't support the concept of making them less than that.

They are in a way, mental cripples. Something is permanently broken. but to move these folks to the level of animal and to put them down... I don't want to go there. They have an incurable damage. Lets leave it at that.


Now I am a supporter of capital punishment.... but I believe that is to be used because the person who did a crime is responsible for his acts. He is human and needs to be held accountable for what he did. Execution is the ultimate accountability. But to be put down like a stray cat.... that is a so dangerous and scary place.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Can anyone explain to me why society and the honest citizens who comprise it should be forced to provide for criminals who are to never be set free? If a man is to be locked away for5 life for his crimes against other people and society, is it not punishing society to force the victims of his crimes and society as a whole to provide for him until his death? Should not he be forced to earn his own keep if he is to be kept alive?

Said prisoners should be made to labor enough hours at current minimum wage so as to cover completely the cost of their incarceration.

If that means 100 hours a week on a chain gang, so be it.

 

[Big Black Dog]

Can anyone explain to me why society and the honest citizens who comprise it should be forced to provide for criminals who are to never be set free? If a man is to be locked away for5 life for his crimes against other people and society, is it not punishing society to force the victims of his crimes and society as a whole to provide for him until his death? Should not he be forced to earn his own keep if he is to be kept alive?

Said prisoners should be made to labor enough hours at current minimum wage so as to cover completely the cost of their incarceration.

If that means 100 hours a week on a chain gang, so be it.

I can agree with this thought.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Can anyone explain to me why society and the honest citizens who comprise it should be forced to provide for criminals who are to never be set free? If a man is to be locked away for5 life for his crimes against other people and society, is it not punishing society to force the victims of his crimes and society as a whole to provide for him until his death? Should not he be forced to earn his own keep if he is to be kept alive?

Said prisoners should be made to labor enough hours at current minimum wage so as to cover completely the cost of their incarceration.

If that means 100 hours a week on a chain gang, so be it.

My only objection is this: Should not they labour to create the things needed to sustain them, rather than being payed the value a freeman may earn to purchase goods from the market? That is, they work the farms which grow their food and construct the shoes for their feet. In addition, they could be made to produce a surplus to be sold as a source of income for the State, to help offset the cost of their crimes to society.

 

[uscitizen]

Outsource our prison system to Mexico or Hati?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Can anyone explain to me why society and the honest citizens who comprise it should be forced to provide for criminals who are to never be set free? If a man is to be locked away for5 life for his crimes against other people and society, is it not punishing society to force the victims of his crimes and society as a whole to provide for him until his death? Should not he be forced to earn his own keep if he is to be kept alive?

Said prisoners should be made to labor enough hours at current minimum wage so as to cover completely the cost of their incarceration.

If that means 100 hours a week on a chain gang, so be it.

My only objection is this: Should not they labour to create the things needed to sustain them, rather than being payed the value a freeman may earn to purchase goods from the market? That is, they work the farms which grow their food and construct the shoes for their feet. In addition, they could be made to produce a surplus to be sold as a source of income for the State, to help offset the cost of their crimes to society.

I don't care how the cost is covered as long as their labor covers all costs of their incarceration 100%

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Labor should only be seen as honorable, not as a punishment. They should be allowed to do jobs at minimum wage, but not compelled. Of course, you don't work, you live on beans and rice. You work, you get to dine at a higher level. that is the way it is outside too.

Actually, work has long been demonstrated to be, under the right conditions, very rehabilitative. So I am all in favor of work as an opportunity. But work as a punishment is the wrong message

 

[Truthmatters]

Said prisoners should be made to labor enough hours at current minimum wage so as to cover completely the cost of their incarceration.

If that means 100 hours a week on a chain gang, so be it.

My only objection is this: Should not they labour to create the things needed to sustain them, rather than being payed the value a freeman may earn to purchase goods from the market? That is, they work the farms which grow their food and construct the shoes for their feet. In addition, they could be made to produce a surplus to be sold as a source of income for the State, to help offset the cost of their crimes to society.

I don't care how the cost is covered as long as their labor covers all costs of their incarceration 100%

No forced labor is right.

Slavery for any purpose is wrong

 

[Skull Pilot]

Labor should only be seen as honorable, not as a punishment. They should be allowed to do jobs at minimum wage, but not compelled. Of course, you don't work, you live on beans and rice. You work, you get to dine at a higher level. that is the way it is outside too.

Actually, work has long been demonstrated to be, under the right conditions, very rehabilitative. So I am all in favor of work as an opportunity. But work as a punishment is the wrong message

Prison is supposed to be punishment.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Outsource our prison system to Mexico or Hati?

I actually thing this should be seriously considered. I was thinking Turkey, Russia, Vietnam or Congo.

The goal is to separate the broken from the rest of us. The greater the distance the better. And if you want someone seriously unhappy, the north coast of Siberia works quite well.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Why should society care for or protect the rights of people who have repeatedly shown they have no regard for the rights of others? Why treat as people those who act as rabid animals?

We are speaking (only) of the most heinous offenders here. It's not like we're talking about petty theft or some other relatively minor offense or somebody who made a and decision and went on to become a productive member of society. We're talking about the Night Stalkers and Mason's of the world who will never be rehabilitated or be anything other than dangerous parasitic beasts if allowed to interact with decent human beings.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Society's goal is the protection of the innocent. I will go that far.

but I am not ever going to accept that anyone is less than human. They may have defects, but they are still human. That is a far far more dangerous place than Ted Bundy or Charles Manson are as a person

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Hitler was human, too. Yet through his actions he surrendered all right to be treated as such.

Same with Ricardo Ramirez or Charles Manson or Osama bin Laden.