Ina LANDSLIDE, House repeals Obamacare

[Trajan]

I never said that, or that is I never injected the hyperbole you are inferring I did.

I never said you did. Others have focused on just Tort Reform as the solution to the Healthcare problems in this country.

you quoted me directly, if you are are addressing others than you may want to say so.

Care to respond to the bottom half of that post? The failure of the GOP plan from last year that is.

yes I care to respond, and you know, I have always approached you from a neutral standpoint , so I'd appreciate the same.

anyway...

Tort reform has a peripheral but healthy connection with health care in that like it or not doctors etc. won’t practice if they can find areas with smaller mal. pract. ins. rates, I read an article where in Indiana had less than 7 neurosurgeons left in the state because the rest had fled to other states where in the rates were much lower. Doctors are mobile.


Now, this really is an insurance commission or regulatory issue, in California back in the 80’s several years after tort reform was passed, the rates had gone back up BUT the ins. Comm.. backed by a ballot initiative made it possible for him to order the co’s to lower rates ( they were absent any real data set that concluded they deserved such a sets of increases ) and actually refund premiums.

As far as outright cost IN the medical arena at the ground level, defensive medicine exists, in one Harvard study I read over 50% of respondents said they ordered tests that were unnecessary and over 50% made referrals when none were necessary.

I do not know if we can ever quantify it with any real certainty, there-fore its effect. I thought everything counted, so the article you had says 1.5%, I saw 8% with other concomitant effects that may cost the nation as a whole 200 billion a year, what? We just forget it and move on? Lets throw it out there and debate it and see whats what.

 

[uptownlivin90]

Wow. Didn't expect it to be that large of a margin.

 

[HUGGY]

American Christian Fundamentalists are the scum of human evolution. They are as crazy and dangerous as Adolf Hitler ever was. The unspoken truth underlying their unbridled GLEE about this meaningless vote has nothing to do with their disregard for Americans health which is true..and EVERYTHING to do with abortion. That's right. These stupid fucks don't want free public access to ABORTION. That's the whole ballgame for these cretins. Any greedy HMO company that wants to continue gutting our economy only has to raise the specter of abortion and these crazy fucks would gladly see one, two, twenty...fifty million Americans die in the wake of their ignorance. Piss on them. Every time I see these people mobilized I start having vivid dreams of all of their churches burning to the ground with them locked inside. They are the most worthless fucks ever put on this earth.

Forgot to take your medication?

You think I'm joking? I practically have an orgasm every time I hear of a church burning down. After living 60 years I have come to the inescapable conclusion that we need to get rid of Christian Fundamentalists. You are a disease on every other human on the planet. Muslims are just as stupid but you guys are by far the most dangerous.

 

[jillian]

And something they actually read before holding a vote.

Do you believe that every freshman (and non-freshman, for that matter) who voted tonight has read the legislation that was up for repeal?

Probably not. Nut they know a whole hell of a lot more about what is in it than what the idiots who voted for it knew.

I wouldn't put money on that.

 

[Sallow]

This ain't going anywhere.

Simple as that.

 

[Provocateur]

Insisting that the government take money away from something else to provide one something for free is Grabby.

I harbor no illusion that you grok this concept.

What is the govt taking money 'away from'...

My paycheck as of Jan. 1. Employee contribution for medical benefits increased because liberals think that the money is actually generated by the government as opposed to by the taxpayers.

In turn, I have less money to make charitable contributions, as well as infuse the local economy with what might have been discretionary income, now gone.

 

[Ozmar]

American Christian Fundamentalists are the scum of human evolution. They are as crazy and dangerous as Adolf Hitler ever was. The unspoken truth underlying their unbridled GLEE about this meaningless vote has nothing to do with their disregard for Americans health which is true..and EVERYTHING to do with abortion. That's right. These stupid fucks don't want free public access to ABORTION. That's the whole ballgame for these cretins. Any greedy HMO company that wants to continue gutting our economy only has to raise the specter of abortion and these crazy fucks would gladly see one, two, twenty...fifty million Americans die in the wake of their ignorance. Piss on them. Every time I see these people mobilized I start having vivid dreams of all of their churches burning to the ground with them locked inside. They are the most worthless fucks ever put on this earth.

Forgot to take your medication?

You think I'm joking? I practically have an orgasm every time I hear of a church burning down. After living 60 years I have come to the inescapable conclusion that we need to get rid of Christian Fundamentalists. You are a disease on every other human on the planet. Muslims are just as stupid but you guys are by far the most dangerous.

Maybe the medication has expired?

 

[Dr Grump]

Can we merge these threads..Obviously Big Reb isn't big on looking around and seeing what other threads are already happening.

here's a tip Reb: On the top right of your page is a button that can be clicked called New Posts. If you click on it, you will see what threads have new posts in them. If you had done so, you would already see that there is a thread on this subject with in excess of 80 posts already happening.

Now, say 'thank you'...

And why do you care? iuf the mods want to merg it with another thread they will so don't fucking worry about it.

Because it creates unnecessary threads. Not too mention is reflects on your lack of intelligence...

 

[Trajan]

245-189

And Reid is saying he won't even allow it onto the Senate floor?

That's gonna make the People happy, huh?

Regardless of Reid or the Senate, kiss the mandate, and almost all of Obamacare goodbye.

The house passed legislation that will neither be allowed in the senate, and even so would be vetoed to death? Wow, I'm impressed.

I think reid is going to be under a LOT of pressure to allow a vote. we'll see. the cowards way pout is to not allow a vote, but the smart way out politically is also not to allow a vote either.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Do you believe that every freshman (and non-freshman, for that matter) who voted tonight has read the legislation that was up for repeal?

Probably not. Nut they know a whole hell of a lot more about what is in it than what the idiots who voted for it knew.

I wouldn't put money on that.

I would remember we had to pass it to find out what was in it.
Well they passed it and we've been finding out.
And we know that it's a load of crap and bureaucracy.
It could have been done sooooo much better.

 

[Modbert]

How come almost nobody who against this bill has addressed my two posts. The only one who I can see even made somewhat of a attempt was Trajan who addressed the benefits of Tort Reform.

Specifically:

The magical Tort reform will solve all of our problems! Is that the Holy Grail of why the GOP should repeal the Health Care Bill with absolutely nothing?

Tort Reform Unlikely to Cut Health Care Costs | The Washington Independent

“It’s really just a distraction,” said Tom Baker, a professor at the University of Pennsylvania Law School and author of “The Medical Malpractice Myth.” “If you were to eliminate medical malpractice liability, even forgetting the negative consequences that would have for safety, accountability, and responsiveness, maybe we’d be talking about 1.5 percent of health care costs. So we’re not talking about real money. It’s small relative to the out-of-control cost of health care.”

Okay, how about the GOP plan from last year?

The GOP Solution To Health Coverage For Pre-Existing Medical Conditions - Rick Ungar - The Policy Page - Forbes

In the alternate health care legislation introduced last year by soon to be House Speaker John Boehner, $4 billion was budgeted for contributions to high-risk insurance pools once the program was fully phased in –despite the fact that Douglas Holz-Eakin, while serving as chief economic advisor to the McCain presidential effort, estimated it would take between $7 and $10 billion per year to cover all the medically uninsurable in high-risk pools when proposed by candidate McCain.

Still, Republican policymakers argue that moving people with pre-existing medical conditions from the private insurance pools to government operated high-risk programs will dramatically lower the premium costs for everyone because there will be less sick people spending the money of the healthy pool participants.

This would be a darn good result – if it were at all true.

There are no people with pre-existing medical conditions currently admitted into the private market insurance pools. If applicants with a pre-existing condition were able to buy health coverage and join these insurance pools, we would not be having this discussion!

Also, that third thing you mentioned:

More Small Businesses Offering Health Care To Employees Thanks To Obamacare - Rick Ungar - The Policy Page - Forbes

United Health Group, Inc., the nation’s largest health insurer, added 75,000 new customers working in businesses with fewer than 50 employees.

Coventry Health Care, Inc., a large provider of health insurance to small businesses, added 115,000 new workers in 2010 representing an 8% jump.

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Kansas City, the largest health insurer in the Kansas City, Mo. area, reports an astounding 58% increase in the number of small businesses purchasing coverage in their area since April, 2010-one month after the health care reform legislation became law.

“One of the biggest problems in the small-group market is affordability,” said Ron Rowe, who oversees small-group sales for the Kansas City operation for Blue Cross Blue Shied. “We looked at the tax credit and said, ‘this is perfect.”

Rowe went on to say that 38% of the businesses it is signing up had not offered health benefits before.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Ah yes, let us just go on paying twice as much per capita for health care, and recieving a vastly inferior product in return. That is the All American Way. Twice as much per capita, and fail to cover tens of millions of citizens.

Just more of the "Greed is good", "I got mine, fuck you" mentality that dominates the present Republican Party.

Hypothetically, which country would you go to for medical care if you were ill (other than severely mentally ill)?

 

[uscitizen]

245-189

And Reid is saying he won't even allow it onto the Senate floor?

That's gonna make the People happy, huh?

Regardless of Reid or the Senate, kiss the mandate, and almost all of Obamacare goodbye.

Landslide?


242 Republicans; 193 Democrats; 0 Independents
This is the makeup of congress I do believe.

3 dems voted for repeal?

 

[WillowTree]

Can we merge these threads..Obviously Big Reb isn't big on looking around and seeing what other threads are already happening.

here's a tip Reb: On the top right of your page is a button that can be clicked called New Posts. If you click on it, you will see what threads have new posts in them. If you had done so, you would already see that there is a thread on this subject with in excess of 80 posts already happening.

Now, say 'thank you'...

And why do you care? iuf the mods want to merg it with another thread they will so don't fucking worry about it.

Because it creates unnecessary threads. Not too mention is reflects on your lack of intelligence...

tsk tsk tsk

 

[Synthaholic]

It's amazing to watch people argue against their own self-interest.


Just what IS the matter with Kansas?

 

[Sallow]

Insisting that the government take money away from something else to provide one something for free is Grabby.

I harbor no illusion that you grok this concept.

What is the govt taking money 'away from'...

My paycheck as of Jan. 1. Employee contribution for medical benefits increased because liberals think that the money is actually generated by the government as opposed to by the taxpayers.

In turn, I have less money to make charitable contributions, as well as infuse the local economy with what might have been discretionary income, now gone.

When did your taxes go up?

Because for everyone else in the country..taxes either went down or stayed the same.

Unless...of course..you own a Co-op in NYC. Like me. Then your property taxes went up.

 

[Modbert]

Statistics vs. Ideological talking points.

C'mon folks, I've expected more of a challenge then what I've gotten.

 

[Dr Grump]

Insisting that the government take money away from something else to provide one something for free is Grabby.

I harbor no illusion that you grok this concept.

[SI]What is the govt taking money 'away from'[/SI..

My paycheck as of Jan. 1. Employee contribution for medical benefits increased because liberals think that the money is actually generated by the government as opposed to by the taxpayers.

In turn, I have less money to make charitable contributions, as well as infuse the local economy with what might have been discretionary income, now gone.

how much less money do you have? Were you getting a better deal before Medicare changed.

That aside, I hope you guys realise that if insurance companies were not such greedy fucks, then this type of issue wouldn't be an issue.

As an aside, we have a combination of both private and public health. They seem to work hand in hand...

 

[Neotrotsky]

And why do you care? iuf the mods want to merg it with another thread they will so don't fucking worry about it.

Because it creates unnecessary threads. Not too mention is reflects on your lack of intelligence...

tsk tsk tsk

I know

Not very civil of him.....

To be fair, it could be one of these "green things"

He could just "unsubscribe" to help lower his carbon footprint

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Can we merge these threads..Obviously Big Reb isn't big on looking around and seeing what other threads are already happening.

here's a tip Reb: On the top right of your page is a button that can be clicked called New Posts. If you click on it, you will see what threads have new posts in them. If you had done so, you would already see that there is a thread on this subject with in excess of 80 posts already happening.

Now, say 'thank you'...

And why do you care? iuf the mods want to merg it with another thread they will so don't fucking worry about it.

Because it creates unnecessary threads. Not too mention is reflects on your lack of intelligence...

So to add to the increase you add two replies? In case you do not realize if no one replies to this thread it will go to the bottom of the page, yet you replied knowing that there were other threads about this subject. WOULD YOU CALL THIS BEING A HYPOCRIT?