Zone1 In your dreams...

[Meriweather]

Nope. I despise all organized religions.

I do not hate the people.

It's mostly not their fault.

Hate is hate. Religion isn't run by robots or AI. Which Commandment do you object to? Which Beatitude? Which Parable? Which prayer? You won't even seek God. Do you respect the people?

 

[Crepitus]

You'd think that after 2000 years there would be some direct evidence of a conspiracy.

I just gave it to you.

 

[Crepitus]

Hate is hate.

Only in your limited little religious haven. I can dislike the organizations without hating the members.

 

[Meriweather]

Only in your limited little religious haven. I can dislike the organizations without hating the members.

I suppose you say that about the Nazi party of the 1930s and 40s as well. You could hate the party and still think well of its members--correct?

I use the Rule of One-Twelfth. For example: Would you disregard all Jesus said and denigrate his group of Apostles based on one-twelfth of them (Judas?) We are all imperfect. For example one-twelfth of all Catholics in the U.S. total to over four million. This means you will kick at one religion because of that four million--totally ignoring the nearly 50 million who are sincere in living their faith. And then claim it is the "organization" or "religion" you detest. I don't buy that.

Are you sure it is you who don't want to be bothered with religion, and need an excuse for not committing? Four million people is quite an excuse...until you consider the fifty million.

 

[Crepitus]

I suppose you say that about the Nazi party of the 1930s and 40s as well. You could hate the party and still think well of its members--correct?

And now you are changing the conversation. Are you seriously comparing religion and nazis? Do you really wanna go down that road?

We are done here, take your silly hypocrisy and weak parallels elsewhere,

 

[Meriweather]

And now you are changing the conversation. Are you seriously comparing religion and nazis? Do you really wanna go down that road?

I am pointing out the silliness about denigrating an organization while patting yourself on the back for tolerating its members. Religious organization are no more to be trashed than are corporations, universities, colleges, department stores, etc. Those who see them as fair game without doing a deep dive into both their strengths and weaknesses are mere whiners. I told you about the road less taken--seeking and finding God. You reject that road while denigrating religions along the way.

I point out something equally unpleasant...but I'll give you this. That at least bothers you while denigrating what is holy makes you proud of yourself. You can't take offense, but offending me was fine. Maybe now is not the time for you, perhaps later, but I stand by what I say. Seek and find God. You will not regret it.

 

[Donald H]

No. I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean that. Maybe try finding some real evidence of a conspiracy. If it's as big as you say it is, it should be easy.

You know maybe start with testimony that Christ didn't perform any miracles or early Christians didn't worship Jesus as God or non-Christian historians didn't record that early Christians worship Jesus because of the miracles he performed or there aren't 24,000 written manuscripts which detailed the miracles performed by Christ or Jesus wasn't resurrected. You know stuff like that. Or maybe actual testimony accusing the Church of a conspiracy which details who what when and where.

No evidence exists that can prove or disprove jesus's miracles.

Except on the side of disproving miracles and the supernatural, there is the acceptance by the C.C. that most of the bible stories are not to be taken as being literally true.

Are there exceptions that don't require you to imagine a miracle actually happened? I think 'we've progressed past believing in superstitious nonsense by now my friend!

 

[Donald H]

I am pointing out the silliness about denigrating an organization while patting yourself on the back for tolerating its members. Religious organization are no more to be trashed than are corporations, universities, colleges, department stores, etc. Those who see them as fair game without doing a deep dive into both their strengths and weaknesses are mere whiners. I told you about the road less taken--seeking and finding God. You reject that road while denigrating religions along the way.

Religious weaknesses have been thoroughly investigated and have been demonstrated to be not true. Nothing but allegorical accounts remain standing.

I point out something equally unpleasant...but I'll give you this. That at least bothers you while denigrating what is holy makes you proud of yourself. You can't take offense, but offending me was fine. Maybe now is not the time for you, perhaps later, but I stand by what I say. Seek and find God. You will not regret it.

Nobody should be deliberately trying to offend you!

Do your part by not taking offense over the truths being presented to you as being allegorical nonsense.

And maybe stop offending others with what both you and Ding now understand are lies!

 

[ding]

I just gave it to you.

That's not evidence of a conspiracy.

 

[ding]

No evidence exists that can prove or disprove jesus's miracles.

Except on the side of disproving miracles and the supernatural, there is the acceptance by the C.C. that most of the bible stories are not to be taken as being literally true. Are there exceptions that don't require you to imagine a miracle actually happened? I think 'we've progressed past believing in superstitious nonsense by now my friend!

Except the first Christians worshipping Jesus as God because they witnessed his miracles, non-Christian historians recording the first Christians worshipped Jesus as God because he performed miracles and the written manuscripts which detailed the miracles Jesus performed.

It's like you guys have no concept of what evidence is, means or how it's used.

 

[Donald H]

Except the first Christians worshipping Jesus as God because they witnessed his miracles, non-Christian historians recording the first Christians worshipped Jesus as God because he performed miracles and the written manuscripts which detailed the miracles Jesus performed.

It's like you guys have no concept of what evidence is, means or how it's used.

The Jesus miracles are the same as the celestial teapot, which can't be proven or disproven.

For the miracles we're expected to rely on evidence that the bibles are true, but that is now accepted by you and other Christians of average and above intelligence, that the tales in the bible are allegorical constructs.

Which specific miracle would you still hold to be true? You're not going to find agreement on any of them from the C.C.

The best you'll find is their statement that you can believe in evolution or whatever else you choose to believe.

Personally, ir's time to move on to believe what the C.C. clearly allows. Will that differ from your beliefs?

 

[Crepitus]

That's not evidence of a conspiracy.

It's ok, I don't expect you to see it.

 

[Donald H]

It's ok, I don't expect you to see it.

Ding fully understands that his church chopped his legs off at the knees when it finally consented that Darwinian evolution was an acceptable belief for the Catholic flock.

He's simply never going to come to terms with that, while he knows in his resentful heart that it means that the 'creation' myths are dead!

 

[ding]

The Jesus miracles are the same as the celestial teapot, which can't be proven or disproven.

For the miracles we're expected to rely on evidence that the bibles are true, but that is now accepted by you and other Christians of average and above intelligence, that the tales in the bible are allegorical constructs.

Which specific miracle would you still hold to be true? You're not going to find agreement on any of them from the C.C.

The best you'll find is their statement that you can believe in evolution or whatever else you choose to believe.

Personally, ir's time to move on to believe what the C.C. clearly allows. Will that differ from your beliefs?

What evidence do you have? You militant atheists types are big on evidence, right?

 

[The Irish Ram]

While God can and has used dreams to communicate with us, you must be careful in determining that it was God, and not your own conscience wanting the desired result. It can be hard to tell the difference.
We have a church here, and they just hear from God all the time. But when things don't turn out the way "God said they would", then it was either because there wasn't enough faith, or God changed His mind. So, just be careful.

Buttercup pinpointed the crucial element. Her dream gave her a glimpse of the future, and then she watched it play out in real time. She said that there were affirmations that came after the dream about her father, and that is a key factor. If God tells you He is going to do something, and then you watch Him do it, you know that you know that you know.

Jesus said, "My sheep know my voice." The more we listen, the more we will hear His voice and recognize it. It's funny how we pray and then hop up and go about our business without being silent and waiting for His answer...

 

[Donald H]

While God can and has used dreams to communicate with us, you must be careful in determining that it was God, and not your own conscience wanting the desired result. It can be hard to tell the difference.
We have a church here, and they just hear from God all the time. But when things don't turn out the way "God said they would", then it was either because there wasn't enough faith, or God changed His mind. So, just be careful.

Buttercup pinpointed the crucial element. Her dream gave her a glimpse of the future, and then she watched it play out in real time. She said that there were affirmations that came after the dream about her father, and that is a key factor. If God tells you He is going to do something, and then you watch Him do it, you know that you know that you know.

Jesus said, "My sheep know my voice." The more we listen, the more we will hear His voice and recognize it. It's funny how we pray and then hop up and go about our business without being silent and waiting for His answer...

The odds suggest that a miracle (questionable) could be predicted perhaps 1 out a thousand times, leaving 999 times the miracle didn't happen and lacks proof. Hence the silly shroud of Turin!.

Miracles (supposed) such as buttercup's need to be proven and not be just a story being invented by a Christian of questional credence at best.

 

[The Irish Ram]

The odds suggest that a miracle (questionable) could be predicted perhaps 1 out a thousand times, leaving 999 times the miracle didn't happen and lacks proof. Hence the silly shroud of Turin!.

Miracles (supposed) such as buttercup's need to be proven and not be just a story being invented by a Christian of questional credence at best.

miracle. 1. an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs, existing outside of nature 2. exceeding what is natural or regular.

Who then is responsible for the 1 out of 99?
God said he would leave the 99 to go get the 1 that was lost. Maybe 1 miracle out of 99 is all He needed.

It was proven to her satisfaction. I would assume Buttercup was worried about her father's eternal location. What God told her was, "Don't worry. I've got this". And then she saw her prayer come to fruition.

As you well know, atheists are set in their convictions. For instance, how hard would it be to get you to accept Christ as your Savior? In both cases, divine intervention would be required.
If Buttercup dreams that you accepted your redeemer, I'd look out/up if I were you!

 

[Donald H]

miracle. 1. an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs, existing outside of nature 2. exceeding what is natural or regular.

Who then is responsible for the 1 out of 99?

The one turns out to be faked too. There's is no proof of any supernatural miracles.

If Buttercup dreams that you accepted your redeemer, I'd look out/up if I were you!

i'll have to remember to ask buttercup about her dreams!

 

[ding]

The one turns out to be faked too. There's is no proof of any supernatural miracles.

i'll have to remember to ask buttercup about her dreams!

Except for the 24,000 written manuscripts which detailed the miracles performed by Christ, the first Christians who worshipped Jesus as God and the non-Christian historians that recorded the first Christians worshipping Jesus as God because of the miracles they witnessed.

There's your evidence. Now maybe learn the relationship between evidence and proof and we can call it a day.

 

[Donald H]

Except for the 24,000 written manuscripts which detailed the miracles performed by Christ, the first Christians who worshipped Jesus as God and the non-Christian historians that recorded the first Christians worshipping Jesus as God because of the miracles they witnessed.

There's your evidence. Now maybe learn the relationship between evidence and proof and we can call it a day.

Was allowing Jonah to live for 3 days in the big fish, one of the miracles?

Praise the god for being able to pull that one off!