In the West Bank, pride has become bitterness

[Shaarona]

Maybe it would soften the hearts of the Israelis to visit the West Bank and note the daily humiliations?

In the West Bank, pride has become bitterness

By David Ignatius, Published: January 31

HALHUL, West Bank

Hoping to understand the current Israeli-Palestinian negotiations in human terms, I paid a visit last week to a Palestinian farmer named Hammadeh Kashkeesh, whom I first met 32 years ago. The encounter reminded me of the pain at the heart of this dispute and of how hard it will be for any diplomatic settlement to resolve the bitterness on both sides.

First, try to imagine the landscape and how it has changed in the years of Israeli occupation. Halhul is an agricultural town in the rock-ribbed hills just south of Bethlehem. When I first traveled this route in 1982 to spend two weeks with Kashkeesh, to write a profile of his town, the hillsides were mostly barren. Now, the landscape is dense with Israeli settlements, many of them built since the Oslo Accord in 1993 that created the Palestinian Authority.

Kashkeesh and his neighbors pride themselves on raising what they claim are the tastiest grapes in the world. His access to his vines was obstructed more than a decade ago when a road was built for Israeli settlers who live nearby. He had given up his precious grapes when I visited in 2003, but he has found a way to tend them again. Some of his neighbors aren’t so lucky; their vines have grown wild or died.

Kashkeesh, 67, worked for years as a stonecutter and then a farmer. He managed to send all of his seven children to high school or college.

The indignity and bitterness that come with military occupation are deeply embedded in Kashkeesh’s voice. In Halhul, the Palestinian Authority is, in theory, largely responsible for security. But the Israeli military controls access on the main roads and intervenes when it sees a security threat. The night before my visit, Kashkeesh said, the Israeli army had arrested 10 people for throwing stones at soldiers.

There’s no condoning rock-throwing, let alone terrorist violence. Such tactics have had ruinous consequences for Palestinians, not least in undermining Israeli hope that they ever could live in peace. Hearing the anger in Kashkeesh’s voice, and seeing the sullen faces of young men gathered near his house, was a reminder that Palestinians experience life as a series of daily humiliations. Life here feels closed, embittered, confrontational.

When I first visited Halhul, openly advocating a Palestinian state could get you arrested. Villagers would hide a Palestinian flag disguised as embroidery, or a map of Palestine on the back of a wall photo. Now, the United States is working with Israeli and Palestinian negotiators on a “framework agreement” outlining terms for a peace accord.

continue.

Read entire article here: David Ignatius: In the West Bank, pride has become bitterness - The Washington Post

 

[Phoenall]

Maybe it would soften the hearts of the Israelis to visit the West Bank and note the daily humiliations?

In the West Bank, pride has become bitterness

By David Ignatius, Published: January 31

HALHUL, West Bank

Hoping to understand the current Israeli-Palestinian negotiations in human terms, I paid a visit last week to a Palestinian farmer named Hammadeh Kashkeesh, whom I first met 32 years ago. The encounter reminded me of the pain at the heart of this dispute and of how hard it will be for any diplomatic settlement to resolve the bitterness on both sides.

First, try to imagine the landscape and how it has changed in the years of Israeli occupation. Halhul is an agricultural town in the rock-ribbed hills just south of Bethlehem. When I first traveled this route in 1982 to spend two weeks with Kashkeesh, to write a profile of his town, the hillsides were mostly barren. Now, the landscape is dense with Israeli settlements, many of them built since the Oslo Accord in 1993 that created the Palestinian Authority.

Kashkeesh and his neighbors pride themselves on raising what they claim are the tastiest grapes in the world. His access to his vines was obstructed more than a decade ago when a road was built for Israeli settlers who live nearby. He had given up his precious grapes when I visited in 2003, but he has found a way to tend them again. Some of his neighbors aren’t so lucky; their vines have grown wild or died.

Kashkeesh, 67, worked for years as a stonecutter and then a farmer. He managed to send all of his seven children to high school or college.

The indignity and bitterness that come with military occupation are deeply embedded in Kashkeesh’s voice. In Halhul, the Palestinian Authority is, in theory, largely responsible for security. But the Israeli military controls access on the main roads and intervenes when it sees a security threat. The night before my visit, Kashkeesh said, the Israeli army had arrested 10 people for throwing stones at soldiers.

There’s no condoning rock-throwing, let alone terrorist violence. Such tactics have had ruinous consequences for Palestinians, not least in undermining Israeli hope that they ever could live in peace. Hearing the anger in Kashkeesh’s voice, and seeing the sullen faces of young men gathered near his house, was a reminder that Palestinians experience life as a series of daily humiliations. Life here feels closed, embittered, confrontational.

When I first visited Halhul, openly advocating a Palestinian state could get you arrested. Villagers would hide a Palestinian flag disguised as embroidery, or a map of Palestine on the back of a wall photo. Now, the United States is working with Israeli and Palestinian negotiators on a “framework agreement” outlining terms for a peace accord.

But Kashkeesh said he has nearly given up. He dislikes the Palestinian Authority almost as much as the Israelis. “They are liars,” he says, whose corrupt leaders build themselves fancy villas and operate “like a trading company.” He also rejects Hamas and says the Palestinian leadership overall has “destroyed itself, by itself.”

As for the peace negotiations, he asks how Palestinians will control their destiny in the demilitarized state that Israel is demanding. “How can we have a sovereign state if we don’t have control over the border with Jordan?” he wonders. If Israel gains the recognition it wants as a Jewish state, Kashkeesh says that Christian and Muslim citizens of Israel will feel unwelcome. “Nobody will believe in the agreement, which means there will be no peace.”

Thinking sadly that Kashkeesh might be right in his skepticism — and that a real end of this conflict may be impossible — I asked him to tell me again the story about the boy and the swimming pool. Listen with me:

It was 1975. Kashkeesh was 29 and had recently been released from prison after serving a six-year sentence for membership in the Fatah guerrilla group. He was working at a resort in Arad when he saw an Israeli infant fall into the swimming pool. The parents were elsewhere, and although Kashkeesh couldn’t swim, there was nobody else to save the boy. So he jumped in the water and took the child in his arms. When an Israeli investigator asked him why he had risked his life to help a Jew, he answered that the boy was a human being.

He tells that story now without much animation. As with millions of Israelis and Palestinians, I suspect that his heart has been hardened by so many years of pain and failure. Will the peace negotiations work amid so much mistrust and anger? I don’t know, but this quest for peace is surely still worth the effort.

David Ignatius: In the West Bank, pride has become bitterness - The Washington Post

The worm has turned and the muslims are now on the receiving end. Just think only another 1390 years to go to even the score.............

 

[Shaarona]

Maybe it would soften the hearts of the Israelis to visit the West Bank and note the daily humiliations?

In the West Bank, pride has become bitterness

By David Ignatius, Published: January 31

HALHUL, West Bank

Hoping to understand the current Israeli-Palestinian negotiations in human terms, I paid a visit last week to a Palestinian farmer named Hammadeh Kashkeesh, whom I first met 32 years ago. The encounter reminded me of the pain at the heart of this dispute and of how hard it will be for any diplomatic settlement to resolve the bitterness on both sides.

First, try to imagine the landscape and how it has changed in the years of Israeli occupation. Halhul is an agricultural town in the rock-ribbed hills just south of Bethlehem. When I first traveled this route in 1982 to spend two weeks with Kashkeesh, to write a profile of his town, the hillsides were mostly barren. Now, the landscape is dense with Israeli settlements, many of them built since the Oslo Accord in 1993 that created the Palestinian Authority.

Kashkeesh and his neighbors pride themselves on raising what they claim are the tastiest grapes in the world. His access to his vines was obstructed more than a decade ago when a road was built for Israeli settlers who live nearby. He had given up his precious grapes when I visited in 2003, but he has found a way to tend them again. Some of his neighbors aren’t so lucky; their vines have grown wild or died.

Kashkeesh, 67, worked for years as a stonecutter and then a farmer. He managed to send all of his seven children to high school or college.

The indignity and bitterness that come with military occupation are deeply embedded in Kashkeesh’s voice. In Halhul, the Palestinian Authority is, in theory, largely responsible for security. But the Israeli military controls access on the main roads and intervenes when it sees a security threat. The night before my visit, Kashkeesh said, the Israeli army had arrested 10 people for throwing stones at soldiers.

There’s no condoning rock-throwing, let alone terrorist violence. Such tactics have had ruinous consequences for Palestinians, not least in undermining Israeli hope that they ever could live in peace. Hearing the anger in Kashkeesh’s voice, and seeing the sullen faces of young men gathered near his house, was a reminder that Palestinians experience life as a series of daily humiliations. Life here feels closed, embittered, confrontational.

When I first visited Halhul, openly advocating a Palestinian state could get you arrested. Villagers would hide a Palestinian flag disguised as embroidery, or a map of Palestine on the back of a wall photo. Now, the United States is working with Israeli and Palestinian negotiators on a “framework agreement” outlining terms for a peace accord.

But Kashkeesh said he has nearly given up. He dislikes the Palestinian Authority almost as much as the Israelis. “They are liars,” he says, whose corrupt leaders build themselves fancy villas and operate “like a trading company.” He also rejects Hamas and says the Palestinian leadership overall has “destroyed itself, by itself.”

As for the peace negotiations, he asks how Palestinians will control their destiny in the demilitarized state that Israel is demanding. “How can we have a sovereign state if we don’t have control over the border with Jordan?” he wonders. If Israel gains the recognition it wants as a Jewish state, Kashkeesh says that Christian and Muslim citizens of Israel will feel unwelcome. “Nobody will believe in the agreement, which means there will be no peace.”

Thinking sadly that Kashkeesh might be right in his skepticism — and that a real end of this conflict may be impossible — I asked him to tell me again the story about the boy and the swimming pool. Listen with me:

It was 1975. Kashkeesh was 29 and had recently been released from prison after serving a six-year sentence for membership in the Fatah guerrilla group. He was working at a resort in Arad when he saw an Israeli infant fall into the swimming pool. The parents were elsewhere, and although Kashkeesh couldn’t swim, there was nobody else to save the boy. So he jumped in the water and took the child in his arms. When an Israeli investigator asked him why he had risked his life to help a Jew, he answered that the boy was a human being.

He tells that story now without much animation. As with millions of Israelis and Palestinians, I suspect that his heart has been hardened by so many years of pain and failure. Will the peace negotiations work amid so much mistrust and anger? I don’t know, but this quest for peace is surely still worth the effort.

David Ignatius: In the West Bank, pride has become bitterness - The Washington Post

The worm has turned and the muslims are now on the receiving end. Just think only another 1390 years to go to even the score.............

The worm has turned...????

What a cowardly thing to say.. Did you "even the score" with the Germans?

 

[MJB12741]

Isn't it just awful? Let us all join together & pray Israel will abandon their failed Zionist agenda of peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to Palestinians so they can remain in Israel & start treating the Palestinians with the same surrounding Arab country love, justice & respect the Palestinians are so well accustomed to & so well deserve. LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!@

Maybe it would soften the hearts of the Israelis to visit the West Bank and note the daily humiliations?

In the West Bank, pride has become bitterness

By David Ignatius, Published: January 31

HALHUL, West Bank

Hoping to understand the current Israeli-Palestinian negotiations in human terms, I paid a visit last week to a Palestinian farmer named Hammadeh Kashkeesh, whom I first met 32 years ago. The encounter reminded me of the pain at the heart of this dispute and of how hard it will be for any diplomatic settlement to resolve the bitterness on both sides.

First, try to imagine the landscape and how it has changed in the years of Israeli occupation. Halhul is an agricultural town in the rock-ribbed hills just south of Bethlehem. When I first traveled this route in 1982 to spend two weeks with Kashkeesh, to write a profile of his town, the hillsides were mostly barren. Now, the landscape is dense with Israeli settlements, many of them built since the Oslo Accord in 1993 that created the Palestinian Authority.

Kashkeesh and his neighbors pride themselves on raising what they claim are the tastiest grapes in the world. His access to his vines was obstructed more than a decade ago when a road was built for Israeli settlers who live nearby. He had given up his precious grapes when I visited in 2003, but he has found a way to tend them again. Some of his neighbors aren’t so lucky; their vines have grown wild or died.

Kashkeesh, 67, worked for years as a stonecutter and then a farmer. He managed to send all of his seven children to high school or college.

The indignity and bitterness that come with military occupation are deeply embedded in Kashkeesh’s voice. In Halhul, the Palestinian Authority is, in theory, largely responsible for security. But the Israeli military controls access on the main roads and intervenes when it sees a security threat. The night before my visit, Kashkeesh said, the Israeli army had arrested 10 people for throwing stones at soldiers.

There’s no condoning rock-throwing, let alone terrorist violence. Such tactics have had ruinous consequences for Palestinians, not least in undermining Israeli hope that they ever could live in peace. Hearing the anger in Kashkeesh’s voice, and seeing the sullen faces of young men gathered near his house, was a reminder that Palestinians experience life as a series of daily humiliations. Life here feels closed, embittered, confrontational.

When I first visited Halhul, openly advocating a Palestinian state could get you arrested. Villagers would hide a Palestinian flag disguised as embroidery, or a map of Palestine on the back of a wall photo. Now, the United States is working with Israeli and Palestinian negotiators on a “framework agreement” outlining terms for a peace accord.

But Kashkeesh said he has nearly given up. He dislikes the Palestinian Authority almost as much as the Israelis. “They are liars,” he says, whose corrupt leaders build themselves fancy villas and operate “like a trading company.” He also rejects Hamas and says the Palestinian leadership overall has “destroyed itself, by itself.”

As for the peace negotiations, he asks how Palestinians will control their destiny in the demilitarized state that Israel is demanding. “How can we have a sovereign state if we don’t have control over the border with Jordan?” he wonders. If Israel gains the recognition it wants as a Jewish state, Kashkeesh says that Christian and Muslim citizens of Israel will feel unwelcome. “Nobody will believe in the agreement, which means there will be no peace.”

Thinking sadly that Kashkeesh might be right in his skepticism — and that a real end of this conflict may be impossible — I asked him to tell me again the story about the boy and the swimming pool. Listen with me:

It was 1975. Kashkeesh was 29 and had recently been released from prison after serving a six-year sentence for membership in the Fatah guerrilla group. He was working at a resort in Arad when he saw an Israeli infant fall into the swimming pool. The parents were elsewhere, and although Kashkeesh couldn’t swim, there was nobody else to save the boy. So he jumped in the water and took the child in his arms. When an Israeli investigator asked him why he had risked his life to help a Jew, he answered that the boy was a human being.

He tells that story now without much animation. As with millions of Israelis and Palestinians, I suspect that his heart has been hardened by so many years of pain and failure. Will the peace negotiations work amid so much mistrust and anger? I don’t know, but this quest for peace is surely still worth the effort.

David Ignatius: In the West Bank, pride has become bitterness - The Washington Post

 

[Phoenall]

Maybe it would soften the hearts of the Israelis to visit the West Bank and note the daily humiliations?

In the West Bank, pride has become bitterness

By David Ignatius, Published: January 31

HALHUL, West Bank

Hoping to understand the current Israeli-Palestinian negotiations in human terms, I paid a visit last week to a Palestinian farmer named Hammadeh Kashkeesh, whom I first met 32 years ago. The encounter reminded me of the pain at the heart of this dispute and of how hard it will be for any diplomatic settlement to resolve the bitterness on both sides.

First, try to imagine the landscape and how it has changed in the years of Israeli occupation. Halhul is an agricultural town in the rock-ribbed hills just south of Bethlehem. When I first traveled this route in 1982 to spend two weeks with Kashkeesh, to write a profile of his town, the hillsides were mostly barren. Now, the landscape is dense with Israeli settlements, many of them built since the Oslo Accord in 1993 that created the Palestinian Authority.

Kashkeesh and his neighbors pride themselves on raising what they claim are the tastiest grapes in the world. His access to his vines was obstructed more than a decade ago when a road was built for Israeli settlers who live nearby. He had given up his precious grapes when I visited in 2003, but he has found a way to tend them again. Some of his neighbors aren’t so lucky; their vines have grown wild or died.

Kashkeesh, 67, worked for years as a stonecutter and then a farmer. He managed to send all of his seven children to high school or college.

The indignity and bitterness that come with military occupation are deeply embedded in Kashkeesh’s voice. In Halhul, the Palestinian Authority is, in theory, largely responsible for security. But the Israeli military controls access on the main roads and intervenes when it sees a security threat. The night before my visit, Kashkeesh said, the Israeli army had arrested 10 people for throwing stones at soldiers.

There’s no condoning rock-throwing, let alone terrorist violence. Such tactics have had ruinous consequences for Palestinians, not least in undermining Israeli hope that they ever could live in peace. Hearing the anger in Kashkeesh’s voice, and seeing the sullen faces of young men gathered near his house, was a reminder that Palestinians experience life as a series of daily humiliations. Life here feels closed, embittered, confrontational.

When I first visited Halhul, openly advocating a Palestinian state could get you arrested. Villagers would hide a Palestinian flag disguised as embroidery, or a map of Palestine on the back of a wall photo. Now, the United States is working with Israeli and Palestinian negotiators on a “framework agreement” outlining terms for a peace accord.

But Kashkeesh said he has nearly given up. He dislikes the Palestinian Authority almost as much as the Israelis. “They are liars,” he says, whose corrupt leaders build themselves fancy villas and operate “like a trading company.” He also rejects Hamas and says the Palestinian leadership overall has “destroyed itself, by itself.”

As for the peace negotiations, he asks how Palestinians will control their destiny in the demilitarized state that Israel is demanding. “How can we have a sovereign state if we don’t have control over the border with Jordan?” he wonders. If Israel gains the recognition it wants as a Jewish state, Kashkeesh says that Christian and Muslim citizens of Israel will feel unwelcome. “Nobody will believe in the agreement, which means there will be no peace.”

Thinking sadly that Kashkeesh might be right in his skepticism — and that a real end of this conflict may be impossible — I asked him to tell me again the story about the boy and the swimming pool. Listen with me:

It was 1975. Kashkeesh was 29 and had recently been released from prison after serving a six-year sentence for membership in the Fatah guerrilla group. He was working at a resort in Arad when he saw an Israeli infant fall into the swimming pool. The parents were elsewhere, and although Kashkeesh couldn’t swim, there was nobody else to save the boy. So he jumped in the water and took the child in his arms. When an Israeli investigator asked him why he had risked his life to help a Jew, he answered that the boy was a human being.

He tells that story now without much animation. As with millions of Israelis and Palestinians, I suspect that his heart has been hardened by so many years of pain and failure. Will the peace negotiations work amid so much mistrust and anger? I don’t know, but this quest for peace is surely still worth the effort.

David Ignatius: In the West Bank, pride has become bitterness - The Washington Post

The worm has turned and the muslims are now on the receiving end. Just think only another 1390 years to go to even the score.............

The worm has turned...????

What a cowardly thing to say.. Did you "even the score" with the Germans?

Not as cowardly as the massed armies of the arab league attacking farmers, nursing mothers and children in 1948. The muslims are now getting to see what it was like for a Jew since the birth of the satanic religion islam. Many millions of Jews were murdered on the orders of your unholy prophet over the millennia, many young girls raped and forced into slavery. Aren't you glad that the Jews are more restrained than the muslims are, and would not touch a muslim female as they are considered unclean.
As for the Germans yes we evened the score with them, and left it at that. Now we are allies and singing from the same Hymn book. While you are suffering so much infighting that a troop of girl guides could defeat islam in the blink of an eye

 

[Shaarona]

The worm has turned and the muslims are now on the receiving end. Just think only another 1390 years to go to even the score.............

The worm has turned...????

What a cowardly thing to say.. Did you "even the score" with the Germans?

Not as cowardly as the massed armies of the arab league attacking farmers, nursing mothers and children in 1948. The muslims are now getting to see what it was like for a Jew since the birth of the satanic religion islam. Many millions of Jews were murdered on the orders of your unholy prophet over the millennia, many young girls raped and forced into slavery. Aren't you glad that the Jews are more restrained than the muslims are, and would not touch a muslim female as they are considered unclean.
As for the Germans yes we evened the score with them, and left it at that. Now we are allies and singing from the same Hymn book. While you are suffering so much infighting that a troop of girl guides could defeat islam in the blink of an eye

Such gibberish.

The Jewish terror gangs were formed in the early 1920s.. They killed over 400 British peacekeepers.

 

[MHunterB]

Shaarona - where are the links to your sources? You have made some claims previously which are absolutely NOT supported by the studies done - this appears to be one more instance.

Until you can produce citations for reliable sources, I for one feel free to ignore your claims as mere propaganda.

Certainly you've shown your view to be overwhelmingly one-sided before....

 

[Shaarona]

Shaarona - where are the links to your sources? You have made some claims previously which are absolutely NOT supported by the studies done - this appears to be one more instance.

Until you can produce citations for reliable sources, I for one feel free to ignore your claims as mere propaganda.

Certainly you've shown your view to be overwhelmingly one-sided before....

I have posted links so often I've lost count.. but I can't force you or anyone else to read them.

The studies you speak of are hardly studies at all.. They often just parrot one another.

The Arab world is not monolithic.. KSA is not like Lebanon.. Kuwait is not like Libya or Qatar or the Emirates.

 

[Moonglow]

Let there be peace and build a better world.

 

[Lipush]

Maybe it would soften the hearts of the Israelis to visit the West Bank and note the daily humiliations?

In the West Bank, pride has become bitterness

By David Ignatius, Published: January 31

HALHUL, West Bank

Hoping to understand the current Israeli-Palestinian negotiations in human terms, I paid a visit last week to a Palestinian farmer named Hammadeh Kashkeesh, whom I first met 32 years ago. The encounter reminded me of the pain at the heart of this dispute and of how hard it will be for any diplomatic settlement to resolve the bitterness on both sides.

First, try to imagine the landscape and how it has changed in the years of Israeli occupation. Halhul is an agricultural town in the rock-ribbed hills just south of Bethlehem. When I first traveled this route in 1982 to spend two weeks with Kashkeesh, to write a profile of his town, the hillsides were mostly barren. Now, the landscape is dense with Israeli settlements, many of them built since the Oslo Accord in 1993 that created the Palestinian Authority.

Kashkeesh and his neighbors pride themselves on raising what they claim are the tastiest grapes in the world. His access to his vines was obstructed more than a decade ago when a road was built for Israeli settlers who live nearby. He had given up his precious grapes when I visited in 2003, but he has found a way to tend them again. Some of his neighbors aren’t so lucky; their vines have grown wild or died.

Kashkeesh, 67, worked for years as a stonecutter and then a farmer. He managed to send all of his seven children to high school or college.

The indignity and bitterness that come with military occupation are deeply embedded in Kashkeesh’s voice. In Halhul, the Palestinian Authority is, in theory, largely responsible for security. But the Israeli military controls access on the main roads and intervenes when it sees a security threat. The night before my visit, Kashkeesh said, the Israeli army had arrested 10 people for throwing stones at soldiers.

There’s no condoning rock-throwing, let alone terrorist violence. Such tactics have had ruinous consequences for Palestinians, not least in undermining Israeli hope that they ever could live in peace. Hearing the anger in Kashkeesh’s voice, and seeing the sullen faces of young men gathered near his house, was a reminder that Palestinians experience life as a series of daily humiliations. Life here feels closed, embittered, confrontational.

When I first visited Halhul, openly advocating a Palestinian state could get you arrested. Villagers would hide a Palestinian flag disguised as embroidery, or a map of Palestine on the back of a wall photo. Now, the United States is working with Israeli and Palestinian negotiators on a “framework agreement” outlining terms for a peace accord.

But Kashkeesh said he has nearly given up. He dislikes the Palestinian Authority almost as much as the Israelis. “They are liars,” he says, whose corrupt leaders build themselves fancy villas and operate “like a trading company.” He also rejects Hamas and says the Palestinian leadership overall has “destroyed itself, by itself.”

As for the peace negotiations, he asks how Palestinians will control their destiny in the demilitarized state that Israel is demanding. “How can we have a sovereign state if we don’t have control over the border with Jordan?” he wonders. If Israel gains the recognition it wants as a Jewish state, Kashkeesh says that Christian and Muslim citizens of Israel will feel unwelcome. “Nobody will believe in the agreement, which means there will be no peace.”

Thinking sadly that Kashkeesh might be right in his skepticism — and that a real end of this conflict may be impossible — I asked him to tell me again the story about the boy and the swimming pool. Listen with me:

It was 1975. Kashkeesh was 29 and had recently been released from prison after serving a six-year sentence for membership in the Fatah guerrilla group. He was working at a resort in Arad when he saw an Israeli infant fall into the swimming pool. The parents were elsewhere, and although Kashkeesh couldn’t swim, there was nobody else to save the boy. So he jumped in the water and took the child in his arms. When an Israeli investigator asked him why he had risked his life to help a Jew, he answered that the boy was a human being.

He tells that story now without much animation. As with millions of Israelis and Palestinians, I suspect that his heart has been hardened by so many years of pain and failure. Will the peace negotiations work amid so much mistrust and anger? I don’t know, but this quest for peace is surely still worth the effort.

David Ignatius: In the West Bank, pride has become bitterness - The Washington Post

The settlers as residents of Palestine will help the WB flourish.

That is, if they aren't lynched first.

 

[proudveteran06]

Shaarona - where are the links to your sources? You have made some claims previously which are absolutely NOT supported by the studies done - this appears to be one more instance.

Until you can produce citations for reliable sources, I for one feel free to ignore your claims as mere propaganda.

Certainly you've shown your view to be overwhelmingly one-sided before....

I have posted links so often I've lost count.. but I can't force you or anyone else to read them.

The studies you speak of are hardly studies at all.. They often just parrot one another.

The Arab world is not monolithic.. KSA is not like Lebanon.. Kuwait is not like Libya or Qatar or the Emirates.

Since you have posted so many "links" it would be quite easy to access them again . You can't do it because you're a liar . Your deluded version of what happened with the British in the 1920's has nothing to do with Arabs trying to destroy Israel since 1948

 

[MHunterB]

Shaarona - where are the links to your sources? You have made some claims previously which are absolutely NOT supported by the studies done - this appears to be one more instance.

Until you can produce citations for reliable sources, I for one feel free to ignore your claims as mere propaganda.

Certainly you've shown your view to be overwhelmingly one-sided before....

I have posted links so often I've lost count.. but I can't force you or anyone else to read them.

The studies you speak of are hardly studies at all.. They often just parrot one another.

The Arab world is not monolithic.. KSA is not like Lebanon.. Kuwait is not like Libya or Qatar or the Emirates.

What a feeble excuse for a 'reply'. I haven't seen you vaunted 'links' - and 'so often I've lost count' is evidently not even double digits.....

Since you don't know which studies I'm speaking of, your assumption about them is patently ridiculous as well.

Oh, and do please remind me when I suggested that 'the Arab world' is monolithic - because otherwise your brilliant observation is irrelevant.

 

[Shaarona]

Shaarona - where are the links to your sources? You have made some claims previously which are absolutely NOT supported by the studies done - this appears to be one more instance.

Until you can produce citations for reliable sources, I for one feel free to ignore your claims as mere propaganda.

Certainly you've shown your view to be overwhelmingly one-sided before....

I have posted links so often I've lost count.. but I can't force you or anyone else to read them.

The studies you speak of are hardly studies at all.. They often just parrot one another.

The Arab world is not monolithic.. KSA is not like Lebanon.. Kuwait is not like Libya or Qatar or the Emirates.

What a feeble excuse for a 'reply'. I haven't seen you vaunted 'links' - and 'so often I've lost count' is evidently not even double digits.....

Since you don't know which studies I'm speaking of, your assumption about them is patently ridiculous as well.

Oh, and do please remind me when I suggested that 'the Arab world' is monolithic - because otherwise your brilliant observation is irrelevant.

Read Zionist Aspirations in Palestine and confirm it by reading The hidden history of Zionism

By Annie Zirin .

 

[MHunterB]

LOL, Annie Zirin??????? Surely you jest! My husband has better qualifications as a historian than she does....

Since when does being a middle school teacher (in English and 'Visual Arts'!) qualify anyone as a historian? Again, my husband is actually *better* qualified than she in both those fields: he has an undergrad degree in fine arts and has worked in education for over 30 years.

Of course the divisions between fields are not impermeable barriers - but from 'English and visual arts' at the middle school level to history on an adult level is too big a gap to be bridged with no background.....and I'm not seeing her having any training nor experience which would fill in that gap.

What I do see is a cheeky amateur seeking to replace knowledge with her own 'feeeeeeeeeeeeewings': she's not writing about history to tell anyone what happened, she's pimping her political ideology. Very unprofessional, very 'unscientific' - and while history is a 'social' science, a 'science' it remains.

In short, NO. Annie Zirin is not qualified, and not a reliable source of anything.

 

[Billo_Really]

Shaarona - where are the links to your sources? You have made some claims previously which are absolutely NOT supported by the studies done - this appears to be one more instance.

Until you can produce citations for reliable sources, I for one feel free to ignore your claims as mere propaganda.

Certainly you've shown your view to be overwhelmingly one-sided before....

It wasn't muslims who bombed the Star David hotel.

And if you want a source for the existence of jewish terrorist groups like Irgun, all you have to do, is look into the statements of Ben Gurion.

 

[Billo_Really]

LOL, Annie Zirin??????? Surely you jest! My husband has better qualifications as a historian than she does....

Since when does being a middle school teacher (in English and 'Visual Arts'!) qualify anyone as a historian? Again, my husband is actually *better* qualified than she in both those fields: he has an undergrad degree in fine arts and has worked in education for over 30 years.

Of course the divisions between fields are not impermeable barriers - but from 'English and visual arts' at the middle school level to history on an adult level is too big a gap to be bridged with no background.....and I'm not seeing her having any training nor experience which would fill in that gap.

What I do see is a cheeky amateur seeking to replace knowledge with her own 'feeeeeeeeeeeeewings': she's not writing about history to tell anyone what happened, she's pimping her political ideology. Very unprofessional, very 'unscientific' - and while history is a 'social' science, a 'science' it remains.

In short, NO. Annie Zirin is not qualified, and not a reliable source of anything.

And just how are you qualified to even comment on her qualifications?

 

[MHunterB]

LOL, I have my degree in another one of the social sciences (anthropology) - so yes, I'm familiar with the basics of the discipline. And of course I've read quite a few history books by actual historians: Zirin's writing doesn't measure up.

And *your* qualifications in evaluating anyone's credentials are???? Or do you always go to middle school teachers (in substandard school systems!) for your historical information?

Zirin's writing is more interesting as an example of 'Socialist' ideological indoctrination than it is useful as an actual work of history.

 

[Indeependent]

I have a suggestion for those suffering in the Jordanian West Bank...
Visit Mrs. Arafat in France and ask her for the billions that Yassar hoarded from the US and dozens of other nations over the years that were supposed to go to them.

 

[aris2chat]

Isn't it just awful? Let us all join together & pray Israel will abandon their failed Zionist agenda of peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to Palestinians so they can remain in Israel & start treating the Palestinians with the same surrounding Arab country love, justice & respect the Palestinians are so well accustomed to & so well deserve. LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!@

Israel treats them with more respect than the other arabs do.

 

[MJB12741]

That is Israel's problem. If there is ever to be a lasting peace, first Israel's entire Zionist agenda of peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to Palestinians so they can remain in Israel has to go.

Isn't it just awful? Let us all join together & pray Israel will abandon their failed Zionist agenda of peace offerings, a security fence & land concessions to Palestinians so they can remain in Israel & start treating the Palestinians with the same surrounding Arab country love, justice & respect the Palestinians are so well accustomed to & so well deserve. LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!@

Israel treats them with more respect than the other arabs do.