In praise of Kirk, kinda.

[Mac1958]

To be clear, he held some really awful views and said some disturbingly provocative things. Despite this he was praised in the NYT by Ezra Klein who said.........

Charlie Kirk Was Practicing Politics the Right Way​

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/11/opinion/charlie-kirk-assassination-fear-politics.html

You can dislike much of what Kirk believed and the following statement is still true: Kirk was practicing politics in exactly the right way. He was showing up to campuses and talking with anyone who would talk to him. He was one of the era’s most effective practitioners of persuasion.
............................................................................................................................................................................................
By all means he gets points for his focus on a willingness to debate people from the other side and for the denouncement of violence. But based on things he said the flip side is he could reasonably be accused of being, or at least sounding like, a racist, a bigot, and a homophobe. And then there's his shameless promotion of the Big Lie.

Meaning his legacy is complicated.

My question being, does his advocacy of debate excuse his sometimes hateful rhetoric? Shouldn't we expect more of people in the public square? Or has it really come to this?

Try as I might, I’ll never understand this stuff, this constant hero worship. Willie Mays was my hero when I was a child, and that’s about it.

I don’t know what need this stuff fills, but it’s BIG.

 

[whitehall]

The mainstream media has ignored it and covered it up for years but every high profile conservative in modern times has been the victim of assault on a college campus and now they are being assassinated. What the hell are they teaching these kids?

 

[80zephyr]

How is what he said taken out of context? The meaning of his comment is very explicit.

Watch the entire video clip

 

[frigidweirdo]

To be clear, he held some really awful views and said some disturbingly provocative things. Despite this he was praised in the NYT by Ezra Klein who said.........

Charlie Kirk Was Practicing Politics the Right Way​

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/11/opinion/charlie-kirk-assassination-fear-politics.html

You can dislike much of what Kirk believed and the following statement is still true: Kirk was practicing politics in exactly the right way. He was showing up to campuses and talking with anyone who would talk to him. He was one of the era’s most effective practitioners of persuasion.
............................................................................................................................................................................................
By all means he gets points for his focus on a willingness to debate people from the other side and for the denouncement of violence. But based on things he said the flip side is he could reasonably be accused of being, or at least sounding like, a racist, a bigot, and a homophobe. And then there's his shameless promotion of the Big Lie.

Meaning his legacy is complicated.

My question being, does his advocacy of debate excuse his sometimes hateful rhetoric? Shouldn't we expect more of people in the public square? Or has it really come to this?

Yes, he was engaging people in a kind of celebrity get yourself famous for 2 minutes politics, and he was doing it all to manipulate people and get himself rich.

Better than a lot of people, but still bad and shows what's wrong with US politics.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Watch the entire video clip

.

They never do that. They take what they want to use and discard the rest.

.

 

[berg80]

No ^that^ wasn't your point at all, v-this was-v

When your reply is reduced to thinking you know what point I was making better than me it's a sure sign of the weakness of your argument.

 

[berg80]

Watch the entire video clip

I have.

 

[80zephyr]

I have.

Then you are either not capable of logical thought, or your hatred runs so deep that you simply cannot believe your own ears.

 

[he just circle K]

... he could reasonably be accused of being, or at least sounding like, a racist, a bigot, and a homophobe. .

There is no such thing as a "homophobe."

 

[berg80]

Try as I might, I’ll never understand this stuff, this constant hero worship. Willie Mays was my hero when I was a child, and that’s about it.

I don’t know what need this stuff fills, but it’s BIG.

It's performative. Look at how they regarded Ashli Babbit after she was killed. Someone who you wouldn't hire to babysit your kids was suddenly elevated to saint-like status. Martyred, because she was part of trump's mob.

An honest examination of Kirk's positions based on his own remarks reveals a man who held bigoted beliefs about gays, blacks, was a climate change denier, a gun rights zealot, espoused antisemitic views, and was Islamophobic. Making him a MAGAist's MAGAist. As a human being Kirk was not worthy of the colossally outsized response to his tragic murder. Rather, his value to the Right lies in the extent to which his death has been politicized.

 

[Mac1958]

It's performative. Look at how they regarded Ashli Babbit after she was killed. Someone who you wouldn't hire to babysit your kids was suddenly elevated to saint-like status. Martyred, because she was part of trump's mob.

An honest examination of Kirk's positions based on his own remarks reveals a man who held bigoted beliefs about gays, blacks, was a climate change denier, a gun rights zealot, espoused antisemitic views, and was Islamophobic. Making him a MAGAist's MAGAist. As a human being Kirk was not worthy of the colossally outsized response to his tragic murder. Rather, his value to the Right lies in the extent to which his death has been politicized.

Seems like it's performative in two directions, both outward and inward. Outward in the tribal/cultural sense, and inward as if to convince themselves that they and only they know The Truth. About, uh, everything, I guess.

 

[berg80]

There is no such thing as a "homophobe."

HOMOPHOBE. : a person who hates or is afraid of homosexuals or treats them badly.

You don't get out much do you?

 

[80zephyr]

Try as I might, I’ll never understand this stuff, this constant hero worship. Willie Mays was my hero when I was a child, and that’s about it.

I don’t know what need this stuff fills, but it’s BIG.

You mean like George Floyd?

 

[Mac1958]

You mean like George Floyd?

No.

 

[berg80]

Seems like it's performative in two directions, both outward and inward. Outward in the tribal/cultural sense, and inward as if to convince themselves that they and only they know The Truth. About, uh, everything, I guess.

The reaction has been unequivocally tribal in nature. Generally speaking, the nation is going through a "Lord of the Flies" moment.

 

[80zephyr]

No.

Then you are wrong.

 

[berg80]

Then you are either not capable of logical thought, or your hatred runs so deep that you simply cannot believe your own ears.

Or, we have a disagreement as to whether he meant what he said. He believed the benefits of gun rights outweighed the costs and clearly expressed that sentiment.

 

[80zephyr]

Or, we have a disagreement as to whether he meant what he said. He believed the benefits of gun rights outweighed the costs and clearly expressed that sentiment.

As he should have. The explanation is used of driving was a perfect example.

 

[berg80]

As he should have. The explanation is used of driving was a perfect example.

It's probably one of the most disingenuous, illogical, inapplicable arguments I've ever heard in defense of the grotesquely distorted right of an organized militia to possess muskets 250 years ago.

 

[he just circle K]

HOMOPHOBE. : a person who hates or is afraid of homosexuals or treats them badly.

Homophone: a contrived political word used to push an agenda