In Our War Against Russia.

[AZrailwhale]

Sokolov's opinion, is, of course, interesting, but he is in absolute minority. Majority of serious historians tell that American help was very useful, but not crucial. Soviet Union wasn't in the situation somehow close to "penny short and a dollar late". Russia has significant reserves.

How can even you try to spin Stalin and Khrushchev's own words from contemporary documentation? I know you are a Putin propagandist, but that's stupid even by your standards.

 

[Zavulon]

Try presenting documentation and proof on your claim.

Total help of the USA was about 4-6% of Soviet production. That's the fact. And there was almost nothing absolutely exclusive, which Soviet Union wasn't able to produce.

My experience is that most serious historians agree with me that without UK and USA participation, USSR would have lost and been history.

Fake history.

Especially since Japan would have secured it's Great East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere and have resources to attack and take Eastern Russia/Asia.

Would they? Japan's major competitors were Americans and they have a lot of problems with Chinamen, too. One of main reasons why the USA wouldn't be very enthusiastic about joining anti-comintern pact. You make alliance with Japan - you lose big money.

Historical reality shows those resources take time to "mine and manufacture".
Meanwhile, that doesn't get around the fact that USA Lend-lease (give away) of food kept Russia from starving while trying to repulse German invasion and reclaim your food producing regions.

There is a popular joke in Russia:

• Dad, vodka prices are scyrocketing. Will you drink less?
• No, son. You'll eat less.

Army wouldn't be starving in any case. If there was a choice, to, say, starve to death four million Uzbeks and Tajiks (as Brits did with Bengalians and Germans did with Jews) or to be defeated - the first is the only option.

American food didn't save Soviet Army. American food saved millions of Soviet civilians, mostly Tajiks and Uzbeks.

BTW, you hubris has been obvious for long time now, komrade.

It's not hubris, comrade. We are just good in the art of war, as Americans are good in the art of graphic novels and fantasy movies. Everyone has his own advantages or disadvantages.

 

[Zavulon]

How can even you try to spin Stalin and Khrushchev's own words from contemporary documentation? I know you are a Putin propagandist, but that's stupid even by your standards.

You just need to understand those words correct, in the context they were said.

 

[Mushroom]

How can even you try to spin Stalin and Khrushchev's own words from contemporary documentation? I know you are a Putin propagandist, but that's stupid even by your standards.

This is not surprising, which is why so many "modern communists" are just so bad at propaganda. They do not really understand what it is or why it works.

The first thing people need to really understand about "Effective Propaganda" is that in giving it, one must absolutely never lie. You may bend the truth, even downplay one thing while exaggerating another. That is all perfectly expected and accepted. But in doing it, one must still be truthful about what is said.

Here in the west, this is commonly known as "spin". And the Soviet Union was actually masterful in that. And when listening to say Radio Moscow, you could learn a lot about what they covered (as well as what they did not cover). Western Media is actually the same way, we just cover and spin things in a different way.

But in the past two decades or so, that skill seems to have been completely lost. For example, the Soviets never tried to call anybody they did not agree with "Nazis" or "Fascists". That was reserved for actual Nazis and Fascists, not simply everybody they did not agree with. But today, anybody that is not a Communist or supporting them is a Fascist and Nazi.

I still shake my head whenever I hear some Russian Puppet screaming Ukraine is run by a Nazi. Yeah, never mind that the very popular President there is actually Jewish, gotta push the bad propaganda no matter how stupid it is.

And if anybody refuses to believe the Jewish President of Ukraine is a Nazi, then they are obviously a Nazi also.

 

[Zavulon]

This is not surprising, which is why so many "modern communists" are just so bad at propaganda. They do not really understand what it is or why it works.

Just to be clear - I'm not a "communist" in the sense of my inner political beliefs. Actually, I consider myself as "liberal" and "pro-capitalistic". But, of course, you can call me "Commie" meaning "Cold-war time enemy of the USA" or "Hot war ally of the USA".

The first thing people need to really understand about "Effective Propaganda" is that in giving it, one must absolutely never lie. You may bend the truth, even downplay one thing while exaggerating another. That is all perfectly expected and accepted. But in doing it, one must still be truthful about what is said.

Here in the west, this is commonly known as "spin". And the Soviet Union was actually masterful in that. And when listening to say Radio Moscow, you could learn a lot about what they covered (as well as what they did not cover). Western Media is actually the same way, we just cover and spin things in a different way.

Actually, not. Nowadays Western media are full of plain lies. And many western guys are happy to "live in darkness and eat shit". Aren't you?

But in the past two decades or so, that skill seems to have been completely lost. For example, the Soviets never tried to call anybody they did not agree with "Nazis" or "Fascists". That was reserved for actual Nazis and Fascists, not simply everybody they did not agree with. But today, anybody that is not a Communist or supporting them is a Fascist and Nazi.

Its just a question of definitions. You determine "Nazies" as "bad guys who are against Jews and homosexuals", and Russians define Nazies as "bad guys who are against Russians".

What is also important, Russia includes in the term "Nazies" - "ideological heirs of the Nazi collaborants" (like Banderovci).

From my point of view, calling you "a Nazi" makes much more sense than calling me "a Commie". While I do understand that you have a different opinion about it.

I still shake my head whenever I hear some Russian Puppet screaming Ukraine is run by a Nazi. Yeah, never mind that the very popular President there is actually Jewish, gotta push the bad propaganda no matter how stupid it is.

As if being Jewish make you immune to become a Nazi (especially in the Russian understanding of the term). Vice versa, many Jews (especially from certain cults like Chabad) are literally Nazies.

And if anybody refuses to believe the Jewish President of Ukraine is a Nazi, then they are obviously a Nazi also.

As I said, it's all the question of definitions. And calling all this western Russophobic biomass "Nazies, who lost the human appearance and human rights" (nothing personal, but it's you who call yourself "mushroom"), among other things, is practically useful, for it demonstrate our determiness to eliminate them (you). One can't be "too cruel" in eradication of evil.

 

[Ringo]

Bla-bla-bla. For Finland neutral status meant additional money in peace time, and additional safety during potential war. Right now, as NATO memeber they are losing significant money in peace

"Finnair", Finland's national air carrier, is on the verge of survival due to the closure of Russian airspace.
Suddenly it turned out that Russia is big and it is expensive to fly around it. Finns will have to seriously consider selling Finnair in the coming years, according to "Helsingin Sanomat" newspaper.
The fact is that "Finnair's" business model was built on offering fast connections between Europe and Asia, but now the company has lost the opportunity to fly a short route through Russia. As a result, this market has been taken over by competitors.
In recent years, "Finnair" has accumulated loans totaling four times the value of the company.Although none of the authorities are now talking about the possibility of selling the national carrier, this is only because such a statement would be political suicide.

 

[the watcher]

Yes, we are basically at war with Russia.

You'll get your war, just calm down. You'll likely get all you want and more.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Deadstick]

"Finnair", Finland's national air carrier, is on the verge of survival due to the closure of Russian airspace.
Suddenly it turned out that Russia is big and it is expensive to fly around it. Finns will have to seriously consider selling Finnair in the coming years, according to "Helsingin Sanomat" newspaper.
The fact is that "Finnair's" business model was built on offering fast connections between Europe and Asia, but now the company has lost the opportunity to fly a short route through Russia. As a result, this market has been taken over by competitors.
In recent years, "Finnair" has accumulated loans totaling four times the value of the company.Although none of the authorities are now talking about the possibility of selling the national carrier, this is only because such a statement would be political suicide.

So the self bankrupting of the collective Western vassals continues, good they asked for it.

 

[Ringo]

 

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