In normal world, this is known as "fraud".

[Blues Man]

Nope.

If you are stopped for speeding and the police ignored 5 other people speeding, is your ticket bogus?



And how many people have you heard of being charged with lying about drug use on the form?

If it can be proven the stop was in retaliation for some other reason it is. And you just admitted that Trump would not be in court if he had never run for president and this trial is about proving that Trump is guilty of election tampering

And again No one has told me how any party was actually injured by all this alleged fraud. That has to play in all this somehow.

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

So, if I rob a bank and then change my mind and give the money back so there is no injured party, that would not be a crime?

Stolen Classified Documents In Unsecured Garage *Joe defense?

 

[Blues Man]

fucktard. read the decision. your fourth hand queefery was addressed, and the scumbag lawyers got sanctioned for repeating their frivolous bullshit.

count yourself lucky that you don't get sanctioned for the same.

Shitforbrains

How many times have I said I am discussing the nature of the fraud laws and not solely this particular case.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Shitforbrains

How many times have I said I am discussing the nature of the fraud laws and not solely this particular case.

fuck off, loser. nobody needs your dumb uninformed musings. arrogant retard.

 

[Blues Man]

If it can be proven the stop was in retaliation for some other reason it is. And you just admitted that Trump would not be in court if he had never run for president and this trial is about proving that Trump is guilty of election tampering

And again No one has told me how any party was actually injured by all this alleged fraud. That has to play in all this somehow.

Oh and we are not mentioning that this isn;t even a criminal trial.

It's a civil trial

 

[Blues Man]

fuck off, loser. nobody needs your dumb uninformed musings. arrogant retard.

Then don;t respond to my posts Fucknut

 

[Harpy Eagle]

If it can be proven the stop was in retaliation for some other reason it is.

Yet you were breaking the law.

And you just admitted that Trump would not be in court if he had never run for president and this trial is about proving that Trump is guilty of election tampering

Not at all. Every candidate for POTUS (or every legit one) gets their life taken apart piece by piece. It is the price one pays for trying to be POTUS. There is nothing illegal about that or anything that would keep Trump from being guilty of fraud.

Though I do appreciate you have moved on from saying he was not guilty of it and instead just saying it is not fair that he is held accountable.,

And again No one has told me how any party was actually injured by all this alleged fraud. That has to play in all this somehow.

Show me the NY law that states that is required.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Then don;t respond to my posts Fucknut

you arrogant wanna be lawyers need to be smacked down. how the fuck do you manage to preach about stuff you clearly know nothing about without spontaneously combusting i will never know.

read the decision. and also FUCK OFF


any more idiotic legal findings? apply for Trump's legal team.

 

[evenflow1969]

Well folks Trump is in trouble because he submitted different values for the same properties. For tax abatement he submitted grossly low numbers and for lending purposes he submitted grossly high numbers. That thirty million dollar valuation for his New York propertie was submitted by Trump his self for tax abatement purposes. Then he turned around and submitted much higher numbers for the purpose of obtaining a loan. Judges are not appraisers they do not go and value your property. The judge did not access the property. His conclusions were based on paper work Trump submitted himself. One of the two numbers has to be incorrect. Both can not be true.

 

[Blues Man]

Yet you were breaking the law.



Not at all. Every candidate for POTUS (or every legit one) gets their life taken apart piece by piece. It is the price one pays for trying to be POTUS. There is nothing illegal about that or anything that would keep Trump from being guilty of fraud.

Though I do appreciate you have moved on from saying he was not guilty of it and instead just saying it is not fair that he is held accountable.,


Show me the NY law that states that is required.

This is a civil trial not a criminal trial so the law doesn't really matter it's all about showing how the defendant injured another party.

The fact that this is a civil trial just shows the State didn't have enough evidence to convict Trump for any actual crimes.

 

[Blues Man]

Well folks Trump is in trouble because he submitted different values for the same properties. For tax abatement he submitted grossly low numbers and for lending purposes he submitted grossly high numbers. That thirty million dollar valuation for his New York propertie was submitted by Trump his self for tax abatement purposes. Then he turned around and submitted much higher numbers for the purpose of obtaining a loan. Judges are not appraisers they do not go and value your property. The judge did not access the property. His conclusions were based on paper work Trump submitted himself. One of the two numbers has to be incorrect. Both can not be true.

The thing is what the state thinks a property is worth is always lower than the actual market value.

Just look at the assessment your real estate taxes are based on and what your house can sell for.

And if this was a criminal offense why is this a civil trial?

 

[L.K.Eder]

This is a civil trial not a criminal trial so the law doesn't really matter it's all about showing how the defendant injured another party.

The fact that this is a civil trial just shows the State didn't have enough evidence to convict Trump for any actual crimes.

^^^

this arrogant retard lectures about law. and queefs that laws don't matter cuz it's a civil trial.

he got his legal edumacation at trump u.

 

[Blues Man]

^^^

this arrogant retard lectures about law. and queefs that laws don't matter cuz it's a civil trial.

he got his legal edumacation at trump u.

Don;t like my posts then don;t respond Fucktard

 

[evenflow1969]

The thing is what the state thinks a property is worth is always lower than the actual market value.

Just look at the assessment your real estate taxes are based on and what your house can sell for.

And if this was a criminal offense why is this a civil trial?

Lol, like hell it is. I have made a great deal of money over the years proving the state over valuation of properties. This has saved my clients real money on real estate taxes. Mass appraisal is not very accurate. Some properties are over appraised, some are under appraised. In either case this does not effect this case. You have one entity offering two different values for the same properties. In this case Trumps corporation. One of the values gas to be fraud.

 

[Batcat]

You are not a billionaire

True.

Even so, I would think any company would do its own audit before loaning anyone a large amount of money.

 

[L.K.Eder]

Don;t like my posts then don;t respond Fucktard

^^ engrish

 

[EvilCat Breath]

In Normal World, when you overstate the value of your holdings on official documents for the purpose of obtaining loans, that's known as "fraud". When you VASTLY overstate them, that's known as "another day in TrumpWorld™".

Defrauding people is "bad" It's "dishonest". People who commit fraud are "lying".

Here are just a few examples of how Trump commits fraud on financial documents to MAKE IT SEEM that he has a LOT more money than he does.

Trump Tower Triplex
Trump's claim: 30,000 sq ft
Actual appraisal: 10,996 sq ft

Seven Springs Estate Value
Trump's claim: $291 million
Actual appraisal: $30 million

40 Wall Street
Trump's claim: $527 million
Actual appraisal: $220 million

Mar-A-Lago
Trump's claim: $612 million
Actual value: $27.6 million

TNGC Briarcliff and TNGC LA
Trump's claim: $73 million
Actual value: $16 million

============

So I guess the question is, why are his followers so willing to overlook blatant fraud like this? Would any of you like to answer that question?

Let the deflection and personal attacks begin!

Source: Page 21 and beyond, DocumentCloud

None of this is fraud. At worst it's puffery. The reason why it isn't fraud, is because there are no victims who relied on the fraud to their harm. Every lending institution has been paid back. Now if the case was that a bank relied on the fraudulent statements and loaned $250 million on a property worth $100 million and there was a default there is fraud in the inducement. The bank was harmed. No matter what Trump said, it appears that no one was harmed. No one relied on this puffery and suffered a loss.

 

[Blues Man]

Lol, like hell it is. I have made a great deal of money over the years proving the state over valuation of properties. This has saved my clients real money on real estate taxes. Mass appraisal is not very accurate. Some properties are over appraised, some are under appraised. In either case this does not effect this case. You have one entity offering two different values for the same properties. In this case Trumps corporation. One of the values gas to be fraud.

But what is the actual result of the 2 differing values?

I'm still trying to figure out who the injured parties are here since this is a civil case.

If they could prove he was guilty of tax evasion that that's what they would charge him with in the case of an undervalued property.

If he criminally defrauded anyone that's what he would be charged with if any private party wanted to file charges.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The financial crashes that the taxpayers were made to bail out says there is.

Trump got a bail out! When was that?

 

[evenflow1969]

But what is the actual result of the 2 differing values?

I'm still trying to figure out who the injured parties are here since this is a civil case.

If they could prove he was guilty of tax evasion that that's what they would charge him with in the case of an undervalued property.

If he criminally defrauded anyone that's what he would be charged with if any private party wanted to file charges.

That depends on the actual value. If the tax abatement appraisal is correct then the bank is the injured party. If the loan appraisal is correct then the state of New York is the injured party. Possibly both are the injured party. It is quite possible neither appraisal is correct and both the State of New York and the bank is the injured party. For tax abatement the state requires an appraisal to be performed. The bank may of may not require an appraisal by a licensed appraiser be performed if it is a portfolio loan. If the loan is not a portfolio loan an appraisal would be required. If the tax abatement appraisal is incorrect an appraiser will likely be going to jail. In the very least their license will be forfeited.