CDZ In defense of Columbus

[Moonglow]

Italian Americans have reacted with anger after two statues of Christopher Columbus in Chicago were removed under cover of darkness in the early hours of Friday morning under the orders of Mayor Lori Lightfoot.

Before dawn, city crews used cranes to remove a monument in Chicago's Little Italy and a massive bronze statue in Grant Park, which were first erected at the city's first and second World's Fairs in 1893 and 1933, respectively.

Italian American community leaders say they were taken aback by Lightfoot's abrupt order to remove the statues, which Lightfoot calls a 'temporary' measure until passions cool. The Grant Park statue was at the center of violent scenes last week, when 49 police officers were injured by a mob hurling rocks and fireworks while attempting to tear the statue down.

Italian Americans slam Chicago's mayor for removing Columbus statues

Before dawn, city crews used cranes to remove a monument in Chicago's Little Italy and a massive bronze statue in Grant Park, which were first erected at the city's first and second World's Fairs.

www.dailymail.co.uk

*************I

I have posted that I understand the anger towards confederate monuments and statues. My view was these people rebelled against the nation so why honor them. The purpose of this thread is not to reargue this point. My only concern is that they should not just be pulled down but go through the legal process before they are removed.

Columbus on the hand is of a different kind. Columbus statues were erected not as a point of “white supremacy” but as a point of pride by recently arrived Italian immigrants who were facing hardships as they assimilated into the American melting pot. If anything these statues were a finger in the eye to those who looked down on them.

Columbus was flawed. There is no doubt about that. However, the statues need to be looked at the historical context in which they were erected.

mayor Lightfoot says this was a temporary measure. We shall see.

Why is there a bridge and museum dedicated to Woodrow Wilson, who not only showed "Birth of a Nation" in the white house, but segregated bathrooms and drinking fountains while kicking blacks out of government? If you must remove confederate statues, then remove one of the most racist presidents of the 20th century...

Movies shown at the White House a crime!

Try showing the old Birth of a Nation in a Movie Theater today and see what happens.

They do and I have seen it several times I prefer Intolerance...

 

[martybegan]

Italian Americans have reacted with anger after two statues of Christopher Columbus in Chicago were removed under cover of darkness in the early hours of Friday morning under the orders of Mayor Lori Lightfoot.

Before dawn, city crews used cranes to remove a monument in Chicago's Little Italy and a massive bronze statue in Grant Park, which were first erected at the city's first and second World's Fairs in 1893 and 1933, respectively.

Italian American community leaders say they were taken aback by Lightfoot's abrupt order to remove the statues, which Lightfoot calls a 'temporary' measure until passions cool. The Grant Park statue was at the center of violent scenes last week, when 49 police officers were injured by a mob hurling rocks and fireworks while attempting to tear the statue down.

Italian Americans slam Chicago's mayor for removing Columbus statues

Before dawn, city crews used cranes to remove a monument in Chicago's Little Italy and a massive bronze statue in Grant Park, which were first erected at the city's first and second World's Fairs.

www.dailymail.co.uk

*************I

I have posted that I understand the anger towards confederate monuments and statues. My view was these people rebelled against the nation so why honor them. The purpose of this thread is not to reargue this point. My only concern is that they should not just be pulled down but go through the legal process before they are removed.

Columbus on the hand is of a different kind. Columbus statues were erected not as a point of “white supremacy” but as a point of pride by recently arrived Italian immigrants who were facing hardships as they assimilated into the American melting pot. If anything these statues were a finger in the eye to those who looked down on them.

Columbus was flawed. There is no doubt about that. However, the statues need to be looked at the historical context in which they were erected.

mayor Lightfoot says this was a temporary measure. We shall see.

Why is there a bridge and museum dedicated to Woodrow Wilson, who not only showed "Birth of a Nation" in the white house, but segregated bathrooms and drinking fountains while kicking blacks out of government? If you must remove confederate statues, then remove one of the most racist presidents of the 20th century...

Movies shown at the White House a crime!

Try showing the old Birth of a Nation in a Movie Theater today and see what happens.

They do and I have seen it several times I prefer Intolerance...

Got any links?

I am talking about outside a classroom, although I would think even that would result in protests and students claiming to be triggered.

 

[martybegan]

Here’s an idea: let the voters decide if they want to remove statues, instead of letting a few loud, vocal, and violent decide for everyone.

That is what is happening. Cities in the south used to prohibit black people from voting and were not concerned with the black residents when they erected monuments to the Confederacy.

Now, many of these major cities are run by blacks and they question why their cities prominently display theses monuments. It is the white legislatures in their states that pass laws to stop them.

A city council deciding to remove a statue under pressure from rioters isn't letting the people decide.

 

[rightwinger]

Columbus was flawed. There is no doubt about that. However, the statues need to be looked at the historical context in which they were erected.

Columbus was flawed, but no worse than anyone else of the 15th century. White Christians were Gods chosen people. Those of Africa or the New World were savages to be tamed.

In today’s society, that is offensive. But in the context of his time, Columbus did what was expected of him

Columbus is honored for finding a new world and leading to the colonizing of the Western Hemisphere. It was like landing on the moon. You can’t hold Columbus responsible for the cultural mentality of his era.

All these explorers and people from the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries were all products of their times. You Could not find a single famous individual from that time and say they complied with 21st century values...whatever the those are.

You can go back 50 years and see how much values have changed

 

[Polishprince]

Here’s an idea: let the voters decide if they want to remove statues, instead of letting a few loud, vocal, and violent decide for everyone.

That is what is happening. Cities in the south used to prohibit black people from voting and were not concerned with the black residents when they erected monuments to the Confederacy.

Now, many of these major cities are run by blacks and they question why their cities prominently display theses monuments. It is the white legislatures in their states that pass laws to stop them.

Pelosi's father built confederate statues in Baltimore. Does that show the disdain he had for black people?

Should the Speaker be called to repudiate the man?

 

[Moonglow]

Italian Americans have reacted with anger after two statues of Christopher Columbus in Chicago were removed under cover of darkness in the early hours of Friday morning under the orders of Mayor Lori Lightfoot.

Before dawn, city crews used cranes to remove a monument in Chicago's Little Italy and a massive bronze statue in Grant Park, which were first erected at the city's first and second World's Fairs in 1893 and 1933, respectively.

Italian American community leaders say they were taken aback by Lightfoot's abrupt order to remove the statues, which Lightfoot calls a 'temporary' measure until passions cool. The Grant Park statue was at the center of violent scenes last week, when 49 police officers were injured by a mob hurling rocks and fireworks while attempting to tear the statue down.

Italian Americans slam Chicago's mayor for removing Columbus statues

Before dawn, city crews used cranes to remove a monument in Chicago's Little Italy and a massive bronze statue in Grant Park, which were first erected at the city's first and second World's Fairs.

www.dailymail.co.uk

*************I

I have posted that I understand the anger towards confederate monuments and statues. My view was these people rebelled against the nation so why honor them. The purpose of this thread is not to reargue this point. My only concern is that they should not just be pulled down but go through the legal process before they are removed.

Columbus on the hand is of a different kind. Columbus statues were erected not as a point of “white supremacy” but as a point of pride by recently arrived Italian immigrants who were facing hardships as they assimilated into the American melting pot. If anything these statues were a finger in the eye to those who looked down on them.

Columbus was flawed. There is no doubt about that. However, the statues need to be looked at the historical context in which they were erected.

mayor Lightfoot says this was a temporary measure. We shall see.

Why is there a bridge and museum dedicated to Woodrow Wilson, who not only showed "Birth of a Nation" in the white house, but segregated bathrooms and drinking fountains while kicking blacks out of government? If you must remove confederate statues, then remove one of the most racist presidents of the 20th century...

Movies shown at the White House a crime!

Try showing the old Birth of a Nation in a Movie Theater today and see what happens.

They do and I have seen it several times I prefer Intolerance...

Got any links?

I am talking about outside a classroom, although I would think even that would result in protests and students claiming to be triggered.

Right now there are no silent film festivals going on they have cancelled them nationwide. You can watch it all you like on a streaming service.

 

[martybegan]

Italian Americans have reacted with anger after two statues of Christopher Columbus in Chicago were removed under cover of darkness in the early hours of Friday morning under the orders of Mayor Lori Lightfoot.

Before dawn, city crews used cranes to remove a monument in Chicago's Little Italy and a massive bronze statue in Grant Park, which were first erected at the city's first and second World's Fairs in 1893 and 1933, respectively.

Italian American community leaders say they were taken aback by Lightfoot's abrupt order to remove the statues, which Lightfoot calls a 'temporary' measure until passions cool. The Grant Park statue was at the center of violent scenes last week, when 49 police officers were injured by a mob hurling rocks and fireworks while attempting to tear the statue down.

Italian Americans slam Chicago's mayor for removing Columbus statues

Before dawn, city crews used cranes to remove a monument in Chicago's Little Italy and a massive bronze statue in Grant Park, which were first erected at the city's first and second World's Fairs.

www.dailymail.co.uk

*************I

I have posted that I understand the anger towards confederate monuments and statues. My view was these people rebelled against the nation so why honor them. The purpose of this thread is not to reargue this point. My only concern is that they should not just be pulled down but go through the legal process before they are removed.

Columbus on the hand is of a different kind. Columbus statues were erected not as a point of “white supremacy” but as a point of pride by recently arrived Italian immigrants who were facing hardships as they assimilated into the American melting pot. If anything these statues were a finger in the eye to those who looked down on them.

Columbus was flawed. There is no doubt about that. However, the statues need to be looked at the historical context in which they were erected.

mayor Lightfoot says this was a temporary measure. We shall see.

Why is there a bridge and museum dedicated to Woodrow Wilson, who not only showed "Birth of a Nation" in the white house, but segregated bathrooms and drinking fountains while kicking blacks out of government? If you must remove confederate statues, then remove one of the most racist presidents of the 20th century...

Movies shown at the White House a crime!

Try showing the old Birth of a Nation in a Movie Theater today and see what happens.

They do and I have seen it several times I prefer Intolerance...

Got any links?

I am talking about outside a classroom, although I would think even that would result in protests and students claiming to be triggered.

Right now there are no silent film festivals going on they have cancelled them nationwide. You can watch it all you like on a streaming service.

You can also get Jud Suss on youtube, doesn't mean people wouldn't lose their minds over it if it was shown in public.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Italian Americans have reacted with anger after two statues of Christopher Columbus in Chicago were removed under cover of darkness in the early hours of Friday morning under the orders of Mayor Lori Lightfoot.

Before dawn, city crews used cranes to remove a monument in Chicago's Little Italy and a massive bronze statue in Grant Park, which were first erected at the city's first and second World's Fairs in 1893 and 1933, respectively.

Italian American community leaders say they were taken aback by Lightfoot's abrupt order to remove the statues, which Lightfoot calls a 'temporary' measure until passions cool. The Grant Park statue was at the center of violent scenes last week, when 49 police officers were injured by a mob hurling rocks and fireworks while attempting to tear the statue down.

Italian Americans slam Chicago's mayor for removing Columbus statues

Before dawn, city crews used cranes to remove a monument in Chicago's Little Italy and a massive bronze statue in Grant Park, which were first erected at the city's first and second World's Fairs.

www.dailymail.co.uk

*************I

I have posted that I understand the anger towards confederate monuments and statues. My view was these people rebelled against the nation so why honor them. The purpose of this thread is not to reargue this point. My only concern is that they should not just be pulled down but go through the legal process before they are removed.

Columbus on the hand is of a different kind. Columbus statues were erected not as a point of “white supremacy” but as a point of pride by recently arrived Italian immigrants who were facing hardships as they assimilated into the American melting pot. If anything these statues were a finger in the eye to those who looked down on them.

Columbus was flawed. There is no doubt about that. However, the statues need to be looked at the historical context in which they were erected.

mayor Lightfoot says this was a temporary measure. We shall see.

Why is there a bridge and museum dedicated to Woodrow Wilson, who not only showed "Birth of a Nation" in the white house, but segregated bathrooms and drinking fountains while kicking blacks out of government? If you must remove confederate statues, then remove one of the most racist presidents of the 20th century...

/---/ It's time to force the democrats to change their party name, in fact, ban the party outright.

 

[rightwinger]

Here’s an idea: let the voters decide if they want to remove statues, instead of letting a few loud, vocal, and violent decide for everyone.

That is what is happening. Cities in the south used to prohibit black people from voting and were not concerned with the black residents when they erected monuments to the Confederacy.

Now, many of these major cities are run by blacks and they question why their cities prominently display theses monuments. It is the white legislatures in their states that pass laws to stop them.

Pelosi's father built confederate statues in Baltimore. Does that show the disdain he had for black people?

Should the Speaker be called to repudiate the man?

So?
Baltimore was below the Mason Dixon line and had sympathies for the south.
Today, it is run by blacks.

I donot see Pelosi defending Confederate statues....I see Trump

 

[Polishprince]

Here’s an idea: let the voters decide if they want to remove statues, instead of letting a few loud, vocal, and violent decide for everyone.

That is what is happening. Cities in the south used to prohibit black people from voting and were not concerned with the black residents when they erected monuments to the Confederacy.

Now, many of these major cities are run by blacks and they question why their cities prominently display theses monuments. It is the white legislatures in their states that pass laws to stop them.

Pelosi's father built confederate statues in Baltimore. Does that show the disdain he had for black people?

Should the Speaker be called to repudiate the man?

So?
Baltimore was below the Mason Dixon line and had sympathies for the south.
Today, it is run by blacks.

I donot see Pelosi defending Confederate statues....I see Trump

I don't see Pelosi denouncing the Baltimore mayor who erected those statues.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The Democrats are kicking the Italian people in the teeth with their attacks on Columbus, true.

But since it has been documented that Columbus is Polish, the libs are also attack the Polish people.

Christopher Columbus was the son of a Polish king, historian says - Medievalists.net

Christopher Columbus was a royal prince, son of a Portuguese noble lady and exiled Polish King Władysław III, according to Columbus’ new biography,…

www.medievalists.net

That is a first I heard of that. I was in Genoa not too long ago and they would take issue with that theory.

yea me too.....i looked into that and the majority of historians dont agree with this......he was a wop....

 

[theHawk]

Here’s an idea: let the voters decide if they want to remove statues, instead of letting a few loud, vocal, and violent decide for everyone.

That is what is happening. Cities in the south used to prohibit black people from voting and were not concerned with the black residents when they erected monuments to the Confederacy.

Now, many of these major cities are run by blacks and they question why their cities prominently display theses monuments. It is the white legislatures in their states that pass laws to stop them.

You mean Democrat laws. Funny how Dems create these messes, yet keep blaming Republicans for it.

 

[theHawk]

Here’s an idea: let the voters decide if they want to remove statues, instead of letting a few loud, vocal, and violent decide for everyone.

That is what is happening. Cities in the south used to prohibit black people from voting and were not concerned with the black residents when they erected monuments to the Confederacy.

Now, many of these major cities are run by blacks and they question why their cities prominently display theses monuments. It is the white legislatures in their states that pass laws to stop them.

Pelosi's father built confederate statues in Baltimore. Does that show the disdain he had for black people?

Should the Speaker be called to repudiate the man?

So?
Baltimore was below the Mason Dixon line and had sympathies for the south.
Today, it is run by blacks.

I donot see Pelosi defending Confederate statues....I see Trump

We haven’t seen any Democrat denounce the Party of the Confederacy, the party of slavery, the party of Jim Crow....the Democratic Party.

 

[sartre play]

The extremes from both party's are acting out like angry little children. Where are the adults?

 

[rightwinger]

Here’s an idea: let the voters decide if they want to remove statues, instead of letting a few loud, vocal, and violent decide for everyone.

That is what is happening. Cities in the south used to prohibit black people from voting and were not concerned with the black residents when they erected monuments to the Confederacy.

Now, many of these major cities are run by blacks and they question why their cities prominently display theses monuments. It is the white legislatures in their states that pass laws to stop them.

Pelosi's father built confederate statues in Baltimore. Does that show the disdain he had for black people?

Should the Speaker be called to repudiate the man?

So?
Baltimore was below the Mason Dixon line and had sympathies for the south.
Today, it is run by blacks.

I donot see Pelosi defending Confederate statues....I see Trump

I don't see Pelosi denouncing the Baltimore mayor who erected those statues.

So?

She is only responsible for today, not 50 years ago

She would have no problem with tearing down those statues.....Trump would

 

[rightwinger]

Here’s an idea: let the voters decide if they want to remove statues, instead of letting a few loud, vocal, and violent decide for everyone.

That is what is happening. Cities in the south used to prohibit black people from voting and were not concerned with the black residents when they erected monuments to the Confederacy.

Now, many of these major cities are run by blacks and they question why their cities prominently display theses monuments. It is the white legislatures in their states that pass laws to stop them.

Pelosi's father built confederate statues in Baltimore. Does that show the disdain he had for black people?

Should the Speaker be called to repudiate the man?

So?
Baltimore was below the Mason Dixon line and had sympathies for the south.
Today, it is run by blacks.

I donot see Pelosi defending Confederate statues....I see Trump

We haven’t seen any Democrat denounce the Party of the Confederacy, the party of slavery, the party of Jim Crow....the Democratic Party.

There was no party of the Confederacy, party of slavery or party of Jim Crow........Only the American South.

A south that had those practices for 200 years before the Democratic Party was formed

 

[rightwinger]

Here’s an idea: let the voters decide if they want to remove statues, instead of letting a few loud, vocal, and violent decide for everyone.

That is what is happening. Cities in the south used to prohibit black people from voting and were not concerned with the black residents when they erected monuments to the Confederacy.

Now, many of these major cities are run by blacks and they question why their cities prominently display theses monuments. It is the white legislatures in their states that pass laws to stop them.

You mean Democrat laws. Funny how Dems create these messes, yet keep blaming Republicans for it.

Funny you should say that

It is TODAYS REPUBLICANS who are defending those statues, monuments and flags

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Italian Americans have reacted with anger after two statues of Christopher Columbus in Chicago were removed under cover of darkness in the early hours of Friday morning under the orders of Mayor Lori Lightfoot.

Before dawn, city crews used cranes to remove a monument in Chicago's Little Italy and a massive bronze statue in Grant Park, which were first erected at the city's first and second World's Fairs in 1893 and 1933, respectively.

Italian American community leaders say they were taken aback by Lightfoot's abrupt order to remove the statues, which Lightfoot calls a 'temporary' measure until passions cool. The Grant Park statue was at the center of violent scenes last week, when 49 police officers were injured by a mob hurling rocks and fireworks while attempting to tear the statue down.

Italian Americans slam Chicago's mayor for removing Columbus statues

Before dawn, city crews used cranes to remove a monument in Chicago's Little Italy and a massive bronze statue in Grant Park, which were first erected at the city's first and second World's Fairs.

www.dailymail.co.uk

*************I

I have posted that I understand the anger towards confederate monuments and statues. My view was these people rebelled against the nation so why honor them. The purpose of this thread is not to reargue this point. My only concern is that they should not just be pulled down but go through the legal process before they are removed.

Columbus on the hand is of a different kind. Columbus statues were erected not as a point of “white supremacy” but as a point of pride by recently arrived Italian immigrants who were facing hardships as they assimilated into the American melting pot. If anything these statues were a finger in the eye to those who looked down on them.

Columbus was flawed. There is no doubt about that. However, the statues need to be looked at the historical context in which they were erected.

Mayor Lightfoot says this was a temporary measure. We shall see.

Columbus is seen as more of a symbol of the genocide exacted against the native peoples of North and South America, as opposed to an agent of that genocide.

If statues of Columbus are being removed in an effort to avoid lawless unrest with the intent of returning the statues, their removal is not an issue.

And as is the case with ‘confederate’ monuments, statues of Columbus need only be relocated to private venues where they are no longer considered to be government speech.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Here’s an idea: let the voters decide if they want to remove statues, instead of letting a few loud, vocal, and violent decide for everyone.

That is what is happening. Cities in the south used to prohibit black people from voting and were not concerned with the black residents when they erected monuments to the Confederacy.

Now, many of these major cities are run by blacks and they question why their cities prominently display theses monuments. It is the white legislatures in their states that pass laws to stop them.

You mean Democrat laws. Funny how Dems create these messes, yet keep blaming Republicans for it.

It is today’s Republicans who are defending what those statues, monuments, and flags represent: fear, ignorance, racism, bigotry, and hate.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

People make the mistake of looking at Columbus through the the lens of todays morality. He was no different than the other people of his time.
In reality, Columbus was should be honored for his bravery of crossing the Atlantic ocean and the exploration of the new world.
To vilify him is absurd. As one historian said, "Columbus was an agent of the inevitable". if he hadn't made the voyage, another explorer would have. ...

Columbus went against the established science of his day.

It was the scientific consensus that the earth was flat, and the liberals of his time condemned his thought , suggested that Columbus and his 3 ships would fall off the edge of the earth and into oblivion.

Very similar to the Climate Deniers of our time.

Climate deniers? You mean the people who believe men with tits are women?