Immigration is Destroying America.

[katsteve2012]

You are repeating yourself Protectionist.

All those arguments were made (in one way or another) against prior immigrant groups (including your forbears) in an attempt to close the door on immigration.

What makes *you* so special that the door must be closed *now*?

 

[katsteve2012]

1860? What makes that so special?

I'm the child of immigrants.

My great grandparents immigrated from Denmark, Norway, Wales.

I think we have as much right as *you* to be here.

You were told what makes 1860 special, in post # 1130, and the post was directly posted to your quote. What's the matter ? Don't you listen ?

As for child of immigrants, my mother was born in Denmark. So what ? That's irrelevant. What matters now is only one thing . THIS >>

Harms of Immigration

1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).

2. Wage reduction.

3. Tax $ lost (due to off books work + lower wages paid).

4. Remittance $$$ lost. ($170 Billion year).

5. Tax $$ lost to immigrants on welfare.

6. Increased crime.

7. Increased traffic congestion.

8. Increased pollution.

9. Overcrowding in hospital ERs.

10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.

11. Overcrowding in government offices.

12. Overcrowding in schools.

13. Decrease in funds available for entitlements.

14. Cultural erosion.

15. Overuse of scarce resources (oil, gasoline, fresh water, jobs, electricity, food, etc)

16. Introduction of foreign diseases.

So "all that matters" is your personal opinion?

 

[RKMBrown]

And it's exactly that ignorance that is part of the problem here. Maybe if you DID know them, maybe if they were in your own family, maybe if it was YOU, you'd think differently.

Now you may go ahead and answer my questions.

I did answer your questions, explicitly.

As to your list of maybes. Nope, that's impossible. There is no way in hell I'd let a family member that wanted to work sit on his ass for more than a week. Thus, no I would never think differently. It's way to easy to find and/or invent a job.

Sounds like you know NOTHING about being unemployed in a bad economy. Too easy! Dude, I remember when I was unemployed during the 1991 recession. Fast food restaurants had signs in the window saying "NOT HIRING", to stop the constant onslaught of job seekers (which included people with college degrees like myself). One day, I decided to go in to one of these places, and ask the manager about it. I went into a Burger King and asked why not hiring. He took me in to his office and opened up a file drawer and pulled out a stack of job applications about a 2 feet high. He said
here's 700 job applications. What's the point of taking more ? During the 2008-2009 period, and during the 1930s, I suspect it was as bad or worse.

And you talk about "let" a family member sit on his ass ? Like you think you have some control over this in a real recession ? This shows how removed from the issue you are.

Invent a job ? Sounds like a good, positive thought. I'm open to hear about it

And NO. You did NOT answer my questions. Not at ALL, let alone explicitly.

Yes I did answer each and every one of your questions. Then I asked what part of my answer confused you. Clue: Question followed by response with answer. Questions followed by responses with answers. I'm not gonna repeat your questions each time, and if I don't you will have to match the questions to the answers, esp. when they are obvious answers. If you can't match the question to the answer for a particular question, then just copy the question and my response and ask how the response applies or does not, and I'll explain.

He asked, "What's the point of taking more ?" The point would be to be respectful to the job seeker, you never know, his best employee may have been the next guy applying.


You said:

And you talk about "let" a family member sit on his ass ? Like you think you have some control over this in a real recession ? This shows how removed from the issue you are.

Yes, I do have control over employment, and esp. control over employment of my family in or out of a real recession, and no it shows how removed from this issue you are. I could make a dozen jobs in a few hours, dozens in a week or so, and thousands in a year or so. I could propose (not make) a job an hour easy. Many of the proposals could be used by thousands each hour. The only thing stopping people from working (other than punitive regulations) is the people themselves lacking initiative, for example people that listen to others that tell them they cant.

As to sitting on their asses, the only "remote" family members that I've known who sat on their asses did so by choice till the welfare ran out, then amazingly they got jobs moments after the welfare ran out.

You said:

Invent a job ? Sounds like a good, positive thought. I'm open to hear about it

I charge for my novel inventions, so won't mention those. As to a typical job that anyone can do... just look to the basic needs of all humans and fill the gap. Example: Owning and working food trucks and carts are a better option than minimum wage burger flipping. Another Example: there is a never ending need for maintenance of everything from cars, boats, yards/land, air conditioning, plumbing, electrical, carpentry, ... Yet another example: There is seemingly, a never ending need of companies these days for phone sales and service (good for folks locked to the keyboard and lacking other skills.) I could go on and on and on, or I could just hire family members to work for me, I have plenty of work the needs to be done and a decent amount of assets to pull from for such uses. I've run my own companies in the past and can easily do it again, or teach a family member to do it themselves.

 

[RKMBrown]

Even illegal immigration is no biggie.

People come here to better their lives and the lives of their families. They work hard - harder than the average American today, to realize their dreams.

Good for them.

Ayup, it's wrong, but at the same time it's a minor offense. Sort of like jay walking.

12,000,000 Illegal Aliens, present upon United States soil without our express prior consent, is a far cry from being a minor issue.

It might very well be true that we stupidly categorize Illegal Alien status as a minor offense, but 12,000,000 minor offenses, swarming-over portions of the country and depressing wages in various trades formerly deemed lucrative for our fellow Americans, is anything BUT a minor issue.

It's damned serious.

Depressing wages is a serious issue, agreed. The solution is not so simple because it has to be multi-pronged. Fine the companies that hire them so it no longer pays to hire them, eliminate the socialist redistribution programs that depress wages, fine imports that are made with wages lower than what we pay in America, and send our un-invited guests home. My main issue in this thread was with protectionist mixing the un-invited guests and invited guests as one group then blaming the guests.

 

[Coyote]

"Native American" of course refers to those peoples who populated North and South America some 15,000 - 10,000 years ago, long before the modern nation to which we are referring was established.

Most kindergarten students understand at least this much.

Native American is anyone born in the USA. The correct term for the aboriginal people who lived here before Europeans arrived are called "American Indians". As is typical of your posts you post words that do nothing but confuse readers and give them FALSE MISinformation.

Silly boy...the correct term is "First People" if you really want to go after it

American Indian is a dunce name since there is nothing "indian" about them and they have no relationship to India oh child of immigrant nations.

 

[RKMBrown]

"Native American" of course refers to those peoples who populated North and South America some 15,000 - 10,000 years ago, long before the modern nation to which we are referring was established.

Most kindergarten students understand at least this much.

Native American is anyone born in the USA. The correct term for the aboriginal people who lived here before Europeans arrived are called "American Indians". As is typical of your posts you post words that do nothing but confuse readers and give them FALSE MISinformation.

Silly boy...the correct term is "First People" if you really want to go after it

American Indian is a dunce name since there is nothing "indian" about them and they have no relationship to India oh child of immigrant nations.

Wasn't it cause the Europeans mistakenly thought they had circumnavigated the globe and landed in India?

 

[Kondor3]

...My main issue in this thread was with protectionist mixing the un-invited guests and invited guests as one group then blaming the guests.

Understandable.

There's little doubt that the 12,000,000 -strong plague of locusts that we otherwise refer to as Illegal Aliens has done - and continues to do - considerable damage to America.

That is certainly not the case with Legal immigrants.

But, while we're re-starting the National Conversation about Immigration at large, it won't hurt to acknowledge the reality that we no longer need Legal ones either, on the scale we once did.

I really and truly understand the long-standing tradition of taking-in newcomers and granting asylum and all of that, but the vast percentage of those arrivals occurred during earlier periods in our national history when we could use all the newcomers we could get our hands on, within reason.

It's going to be difficult coming to grips with the idea that we can't continue to take-in newcomers the way we used to, but it's an idea whose time has come, to be included in serious strategic discussions about population, and this thread was as good a place as any to undertake a little warm-up exercise in that vein.

 

[Unkotare]

But, while we're re-starting the National Conversation about Immigration at large, it won't hurt to acknowledge the reality that we no longer need Legal ones either, on the scale we once did.

I really and truly understand the long-standing tradition of taking-in newcomers and granting asylum and all of that, but the vast percentage of those arrivals occurred during earlier periods in our national history when we could use all the newcomers we could get our hands on, within reason.

It's going to be difficult coming to grips with the idea that we can't continue to take-in newcomers the way we used to, but it's an idea whose time has come

There have always been irrational, "I'm here, now lock the door!" fools saying that exact same thing throughout our history. They have always been wrong. You are wrong.

 

[RKMBrown]

...My main issue in this thread was with protectionist mixing the un-invited guests and invited guests as one group then blaming the guests.

Understandable.

There's little doubt that the 12,000,000 -strong plague of locusts that we otherwise refer to as Illegal Aliens has done - and continues to do - considerable damage to America.

That is certainly not the case with Legal immigrants.

But, while we're re-starting the National Conversation about Immigration at large, it won't hurt to acknowledge the reality that we no longer need Legal ones either, on the scale we once did.

I really and truly understand the long-standing tradition of taking-in newcomers and granting asylum and all of that, but the vast percentage of those arrivals occurred during earlier periods in our national history when we could use all the newcomers we could get our hands on, within reason.

It's going to be difficult coming to grips with the idea that we can't continue to take-in newcomers the way we used to, but it's an idea whose time has come, to be included in serious strategic discussions about population, and this thread was as good a place as any to undertake a little warm-up exercise in that vein.

I disagree with your point 100%. The better option to shrinking this country is growing it. Yes that will have to include ending the democrat plan to convert this country into a third world country that worships it's leaders as gods throwing food scraps over the castle walls. There is ZERO reason other than this dumb ass welfare state to stop growth in this country. Immigration is a good way to grow, so long as you have conditions on said immigration. For example, the condition that they work for a living. There is no shortage of resources.

 

[Kondor3]

But, while we're re-starting the National Conversation about Immigration at large, it won't hurt to acknowledge the reality that we no longer need Legal ones either, on the scale we once did.

I really and truly understand the long-standing tradition of taking-in newcomers and granting asylum and all of that, but the vast percentage of those arrivals occurred during earlier periods in our national history when we could use all the newcomers we could get our hands on, within reason.

It's going to be difficult coming to grips with the idea that we can't continue to take-in newcomers the way we used to, but it's an idea whose time has come

There have always been irrational, "I'm here, now lock the door!" fools saying that exact same thing throughout our history. They have always been wrong. You are wrong.

I am neither irrational nor xenophobic, and, I believe that there is more right than wrong, in the idea that we no longer need Immigration in the way we once did. But thank you for your feedback.

 

[Unkotare]

But, while we're re-starting the National Conversation about Immigration at large, it won't hurt to acknowledge the reality that we no longer need Legal ones either, on the scale we once did.

I really and truly understand the long-standing tradition of taking-in newcomers and granting asylum and all of that, but the vast percentage of those arrivals occurred during earlier periods in our national history when we could use all the newcomers we could get our hands on, within reason.

It's going to be difficult coming to grips with the idea that we can't continue to take-in newcomers the way we used to, but it's an idea whose time has come

There have always been irrational, "I'm here, now lock the door!" fools saying that exact same thing throughout our history. They have always been wrong. You are wrong.

I am neither irrational nor xenophobic

Your posts here strongly suggest otherwise.

 

[Kondor3]

...My main issue in this thread was with protectionist mixing the un-invited guests and invited guests as one group then blaming the guests.

Understandable.

There's little doubt that the 12,000,000 -strong plague of locusts that we otherwise refer to as Illegal Aliens has done - and continues to do - considerable damage to America.

That is certainly not the case with Legal immigrants.

But, while we're re-starting the National Conversation about Immigration at large, it won't hurt to acknowledge the reality that we no longer need Legal ones either, on the scale we once did.

I really and truly understand the long-standing tradition of taking-in newcomers and granting asylum and all of that, but the vast percentage of those arrivals occurred during earlier periods in our national history when we could use all the newcomers we could get our hands on, within reason.

It's going to be difficult coming to grips with the idea that we can't continue to take-in newcomers the way we used to, but it's an idea whose time has come, to be included in serious strategic discussions about population, and this thread was as good a place as any to undertake a little warm-up exercise in that vein.

I disagree with your point 100%...

Understood... all along.

...The better option to shrinking this country is growing it...

Whatever for?

And in what direction? (metaphorically speaking)

We've already allowed Big Business to surrender our manufacturing capacity.

We've already allowed Business of all sizes to undermine American Labor with near -slave wages for Illegals.

Generally speaking, don't we have enough already? How much more is enough?

...Yes that will have to include ending the democrat plan to convert this country into a third world country that worships it's leaders like as gods throwing food scraps over the castle walls...

The single largest manifestation of that behavior is the intentions of both mainstream political parties to grant a Shamnesty to the 12,000,000.

...There is ZERO reason other than this dumb ass welfare state to stop growth in this country...

Hell, the 'dumb ass welfare state' is the single largest reason WHY both mainstream vote-whoring parties want to grant the 12,000,000 a Shamnesty... to let 'em prop-up the Safety Net for another 20-40 years... which is all well and good until the 12,000,000 come knocking on the door for the same benefits later in life. That's just kicking the can down the road.

...Immigration is good way to grow...

A better way to 'grow' is to invest our time and energy in retraining and retooling our own people, rather than letting them languish in increasingly large numbers while we mindlessly continue bringing in fresh worker-bees.

...so long as you have conditions on said immigration. For example, the condition that they work for a living...

Yes. It's been tried before, I believe. Repeatedly.

...There is no shortage of resources.

If that were true, we would not have so many millions of unemployed, and so many people without proper housing and education and medical care and all the rest. I see no point in bringing-in more hungry mouths to feed when they already exist amongst us in staggering numbers, nor do I see any point in narrowing our resources-per-capita margins much further.

There's nothing wrong with the idea of taking a couple of decades of respite-time from the Immigration Polka, catching our breath after this latest Great Depression, spending some time rebuilding and retooling and looking after our own, and then revisiting the Immigration idea with an eye towards accommodating large numbers once again.

It's 180-degrees out from your own position but that sort of contrast is healthy, too, in its own way; letting some daylight into the situation from several angles.

That sort of contrast is the stuff of higher-order and serious National Conversations, in think-tank mode.

 

[Kondor3]

There have always been irrational, "I'm here, now lock the door!" fools saying that exact same thing throughout our history. They have always been wrong. You are wrong.

I am neither irrational nor xenophobic

Your posts here strongly suggest otherwise.

Your tenacity in suggesting such an 'otherwise' is far more revealing and accurate in its own implications.

 

[Unkotare]

If that were true, we would not have so many millions of unemployed, and so many people without proper housing and education and medical care and all the rest.

That is an illogical conclusion.

 

[Unkotare]

There's nothing wrong with the idea of taking a couple of decades of respite-time from the Immigration Polka,

There is everything wrong with it, as has been PROVEN to you dozens of times on this thread. At this point you are just repeating yourself pointlessly like your fellow OCD patient.

 

[Kondor3]

There's nothing wrong with the idea of taking a couple of decades of respite-time from the Immigration Polka,

There is everything wrong with it, as has been PROVEN to you dozens of times on this thread. At this point you are just repeating yourself pointlessly like your fellow OCD patient.

If you want to djin-up a contest about 'repetition', I suggest you count up the number of times that you have claimed to have 'proven' your points.

The truth of the matter is, that you have done nothing more than to serve-up a variety of narrow-range data - some of it from highly questionable pro-immigration sources - and served-up opinion and speculation upon future impact of a handful of interim trends, and tried to pawn those off as gospel truth, thinking that if you continue caterwauling about having 'proven' your points, that they will be automatically perceived as proven.

If there is any Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder sufferer here, in connection with all this, and in connection with attempting to denigrate and discredit one's colleagues who hold opposing viewpoints, it ain't me, bub.

 

[Unkotare]

I suggest you count up the number of times that you have claimed to have 'proven' your points.

It is a small fraction of the times I have actually PROVEN my points on this thread. You and the other dimwit are just sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "lalalalalalaalaaa!" at this point because you've got nothing left but your preconceived notions despite their having been debunked repeatedly.

 

[Kondor3]

If that were true, we would not have so many millions of unemployed, and so many people without proper housing and education and medical care and all the rest.

That is an illogical conclusion.

If we had sufficient monetary and educational resources to retrain and retool more of our own people, in order to render them as more employable once again, we would not have so many unemployed.

With far fewer unemployed, we would have far fewer in 'housing distress' or lacking proper medical care.

Not only is that logical, but it carries the unmistakable mantle of truth and accuracy.

Good luck trying to knock that one off its feet.

 

[Unkotare]

The truth of the matter is, that you have done nothing more than to serve-up a variety of narrow-range data - some of it from highly questionable pro-immigration sources - ....

In other words, I have supported all of my positions with FACTS. Since you cannot dispute them, you attempt to discredit the source. A lot of people do that here when they lack the character to admit they've lost an argument.

 

[dr.d]

Immigrants (like my own parents in the late 1940's) come to the U.S.A. Because they believe it to be "the land of opportunity"....
When people stop choosing our nation to immigrate to...we will have ceased to be that great land.
Think about it.


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