Images of Africa

[Katzndogz]

Katz -

So you are comparing slaves being herded on to slave ships with ordinary passenger ships.....?

I am speechless.

I am comparing conditions. Not the circumstances under which they got on the ship. Slaves got on the ship because they were captured by black people and sold into slavery by black people. The descendants of those slaves have much better living conditions today than the descendants of Africans who were never captured by their black countrymen, nor sold by their black countrymen.

 

[Katzndogz]

Not to me, I have heard several people make this same exact statement on this board.

Wow....it's a first for me. I just don't know what to say about a statement like that.

When you think of the number of slaves who starved to death or died of disease en route, those who were simply thrown overboard in some cases, and then those who worked literally worked to death in sugar plantations from Brazil to Cuba and the US....I can't see how that could be a better option for anyone.

I agree, people just look at how Blacks in the US are living compared to Africa and think Black Americans should be grateful they are here, even though it was through slavery. That is borderline insane but it is what it is.

I can't say they should be grateful, but they should at least recognize that Africa is a place largely of crushing and grinding poverty and likely to fall into some sort of war with the slightest of sparks. Here, poverty means an EBT card and the grocery store, in Africa it's standing in line at a UN feeding station waiting for a bowl of rice. If given the choice today, Africans will leave and come to the very country that has a history of dragging them here in chains. In fact Africans will go anywhere they can get to if given the chance.

 

[Unkotare]

Katz -

So you are comparing slaves being herded on to slave ships with ordinary passenger ships.....?

I am speechless.

I am comparing conditions. Not the circumstances under which they got on the ship. Slaves got on the ship because they were captured by black people and sold into slavery by black people. The descendants of those slaves have much better living conditions today than the descendants of Africans who were never captured by their black countrymen, nor sold by their black countrymen.

Gee, I wonder if anyone can figure out what you were really trying to say in that post...

You're a disgrace.

 

[Saigon]

I can't say they should be grateful, but they should at least recognize that Africa is a place largely of crushing and grinding poverty and likely to fall into some sort of war with the slightest of sparks. Here, poverty means an EBT card and the grocery store, in Africa it's standing in line at a UN feeding station waiting for a bowl of rice. If given the choice today, Africans will leave and come to the very country that has a history of dragging them here in chains. In fact Africans will go anywhere they can get to if given the chance.

I do take your point, but I think suggesting people were better off as slaves than as free men is close to being offensive. It's not something I hear many black people saying.

But I agree that poverty in the US in 2012 is not the same as poverty in Somalia in 2012.

 

[Katzndogz]

If you get right down to it. An American slave in 1870 was better off than someone in 2012 Somalia.

Although a slave in 1870 Haiti had it worse than even in 2012 Somalia! Those French were the most brutal of any other slave holding cultures. Absolutely horrible.

 

[Saigon]

If you get right down to it. An American slave in 1870 was better off than someone in 2012 Somalia.

Although a slave in 1870 Haiti had it worse than even in 2012 Somalia! Those French were the most brutal of any other slave holding cultures. Absolutely horrible.

As appalling as Somalia in 2012 is, I don't think anyone can say a slave is "better off" than anyone anywhere who has freedom.

Conditions in Haiti and Brazil may have been worse than in the US, by and large, but even so, very many black slaves died of overwork and brutality.

 

[Saigon]

This is my lasy post for a while...I'm heading to the airport then fly to Accra (Ghana) tonight, and then on to Sierra Leone on Tuesday.

See you all in a few weeks!

 

[Katzndogz]

This is my lasy post for a while...I'm heading to the airport then fly to Accra (Ghana) tonight, and then on to Sierra Leone on Tuesday.

See you all in a few weeks!

I do hope you take lots of good pictures and post them.

 

[Artevelde]

This is my lasy post for a while...I'm heading to the airport then fly to Accra (Ghana) tonight, and then on to Sierra Leone on Tuesday.

See you all in a few weeks!

Good riddance.

 

[Saigon]

I'm back....I took some amazing pictures, and will post a few when I have time.

Needless to say, being in Liberia was quite an experience! (And not always a good one!)

 

[ScienceRocks]

I'm back....I took some amazing pictures, and will post a few when I have time.

Needless to say, being in Liberia was quite an experience! (And not always a good one!)

Any modernization going on? Buildings, roads and people walking around with smart phones?

Is Africa improving? Did you feel safe?

 

[Saigon]

Matthew -

I was in 4 countries (Ghana, Togo, Sierra Leone and Liberia) and felt completely safe in Ghana and Sierra Leone. Togo is largely fine, but you need to take precautions, and Liberia to me did not feel so safe.

Everyone in Africa has a mobile phone and there were even billboards up advertising 4G, so at that level Africa is up to speed.

Ghana is completely developed - shopping malls, good roads, decent water & electricity and all that kind of thing, but the other countries in the region a bit less so.

Sierra Leone particularly is a complete mess - nothing works. The roads are just mud, and the buildings in terrible shape. The people were great, but it has a long, long way to go to become a functioning economy.

Much of Africa has improved enormously in the past decade, largely due to better government. And then it becomes an upward cycle - better govt promotes business, which improves incomes, which means people spend more and stimulate the economy. We're seeing that in Ghana, and starting to take place along the coast, but for Liberia and SL it will be another generation before people really start to feel an improvement is my guess.

 

[africauntamed]

Africa is my second home. Basically I am from Canada but being a African tour organizer I have to visit Africa frequently. Africa is not only famous for their African safari, animals and birds but also there are so many beautiful locations like beaches, waterfalls and also shopping destinations. I love Africa too.