Illinois Firearm Identification card ruled unConstitutional in state court....yes, this is correct.

[JoeB131]

Most gun deaths are suicides and suicide is an absolute right.

Okay, you win. You've convinced me you are a retard.

We don't pat suicidal people on the back and say, "Have a good time", we commit them to mental health institutes.

 

[Blues Man]

Most gun deaths are suicides and suicide is an absolute right.

Okay, you win. You've convinced me you are a retard.

We don't pat suicidal people on the back and say, "Have a good time", we commit them to mental health institutes.

No we let people make their own choices.

Just because the government doesn't recognize the ultimate right of anyone, the choice to live or die, in no way means it doesn't exist.

 

[JoeB131]

No we let people make their own choices.

Just because the government doesn't recognize the ultimate right of anyone, the choice to live or die, in no way means it doesn't exist.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. That's why it should be discouraged.

If banning guns prevents ONE suicide, totally worth it.

 

[Blues Man]

No we let people make their own choices.

Just because the government doesn't recognize the ultimate right of anyone, the choice to live or die, in no way means it doesn't exist.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. That's why it should be discouraged.

If banning guns prevents ONE suicide, totally worth it.

You can discourage it if you want you just can't deny people the right to choose to end their own lives

 

[Pilot1]

All State and Local gun laws are Unconstitutional as they are clear INFRINGEMENTS on our natural right as are many Federal Laws. The corrupt, activist courts have upheld them for many decades, and that needs to change.

 

[2aguy]

You can kill people with just about anything

Yes, you can... with the right training.

Guns make it easy to kill people without training.

But we should totally tolerate 33,000 deaths, 70,000 injuries, 400,000 gun crimes and 27 BILLION in economic losses every year because some of you want to compensate for your "shortcomings".

No....we should lock up violent gun criminals, and instead of letting them out in less than 3 years, keep them in prison for 10 years or more......

And according to the Centers for Disease Control, Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to stop rapes, robberies and murders. And considering that of the 33,000 deaths from gun, the majority are suicides...you have to use that lie to hide the fact that guns save more innocent lives than they take...

And now, the cost savings from civilian gun ownership...

Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct


If this 1/3 vs. 2/3 ratio of deaths to injuries in actual shootings pertains in these DGUs, that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—less some attackers who lost their lives to defenders. This enormous benefit dwarfs, both in human and economic terms, the losses trumpeted by hoplophobes who only choose to see the risk side of the equation.

Kleck is still correct, whether precisely or not. Remember that the NSDS was more comprehensive and sampled the national population for one year compared to the BRFSS sampling some states inconsistently. That makes Kleck and Gertz’ work the more valid of the two in any case.

Late 1990’s CDC leadership must have been scared off by their own numbers. However you slice it, there are tremendous numbers of DGUs done by Americans who take self-defense seriously and effectively. Thank goodness and the Second Amendment!
==============
Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns

Our man Bruce Krafft — whose posts we dearly miss — did the math back in 2012. Here it is:
Our fearless leader suggested that I take a look at the flip side of the anti’s latest attack on our freedoms (a recycled strategy from the Clinton-era Public Health model of gun control): the monetary cost of gun violence.
For example, the Center for American Progress touted the “fact” that the Virginia Tech massacre cost taxpayers $48.2 million (including autopsy costs and a fine against Virginia Tech for failing to get their skates on when the killer started shooting).
It’s one of the antis’ favorite tricks: cost benefit analysis omitting the benefit side of the equation. So what are the financial benefits of firearm ownership to society? Read on . . .
In my post Dennis Henigan on Chardon: Clockwork Edition, I did an analysis of how many lives were saved annually in Defensive Gun Uses (DGUs). I used extremely conservative numbers. Now I am going to use some less conservative ones.
The Kleck-Gertz DGU study estimated that there are between 2.1 and 2.5 million DGUs a year in the U.S. The Ludwig-Cook study came up with 1.46 million. So let’s split the difference and call it 1.88 million DGUs per year.
In the K-G article Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun, 15.7 percent of people who had a DGU reckoned they almost certainly saved a life. Ignoring the ‘probably’ and ‘might have’ saved a life categories for simplicity, 15.7 percent of 1.88 million gives us 295,160 lives saved annually.
[NB: A number of people have questioned the 15.7 percent stat. Remember: many states regard the mere act of pulling a gun on someone a form of deadly force. In addition, virtually every jurisdiction in the nation requires that an armed self-defender must be in “reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm” before using (or in some places even threatening to use) deadly force.]
How can we get a dollar figure from 1.88 million defensive gun uses per year? Never fear, faithful reader, we can count on the .gov to calculate everything.
According to the AZ state government, in February of 2008 a human life was worth $6.5 million. Going to the Inflation Calculator and punching in the numbers gives us a present value of $6.93 million.
So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.
Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.
I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.

When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”


Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”
So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.

 

[JoeB131]

No....we should lock up violent gun criminals, and instead of letting them out in less than 3 years, keep them in prison for 10 years or more......

We already lock up 2 million people with another 7 million on probation and parole. But since most gun murderers are domestic violence, or that guy who just snapped one day, really isn't going to solve the problem.

EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD HAS FIGURED THIS OUT! No guns, less violence.

And according to the Centers for Disease Control, Americans use their legal guns

According to the FBI, only 201 cases of justified homicide with gun by civilians.

The rest of your spooge is dismissed.

 

[August West]

All State and Local gun laws are Unconstitutional as they are clear INFRINGEMENTS on our natural right as are many Federal Laws. The corrupt, activist courts have upheld them for many decades, and that needs to change.

So you think that a 6 year old should have the legal right to take a gun to school. Good one! Try taking your gun through a metal detector and when you`re stopped give the police your "infringement" lecture. Cops enjoy a good laugh now and then I`m sure.

 

[Pilot1]

All State and Local gun laws are Unconstitutional as they are clear INFRINGEMENTS on our natural right as are many Federal Laws. The corrupt, activist courts have upheld them for many decades, and that needs to change.

So you think that a 6 year old should have the legal right to take a gun to school. Good one! Try taking your gun through a metal detector and when you`re stopped give the police your "infringement" lecture. Cops enjoy a good laugh now and then I`m sure.

Minors are already prohibited from owning firearms. That was never the intent of the 2A. Stop being utterly moronic.

 

[August West]

All State and Local gun laws are Unconstitutional as they are clear INFRINGEMENTS on our natural right as are many Federal Laws. The corrupt, activist courts have upheld them for many decades, and that needs to change.

So you think that a 6 year old should have the legal right to take a gun to school. Good one! Try taking your gun through a metal detector and when you`re stopped give the police your "infringement" lecture. Cops enjoy a good laugh now and then I`m sure.

Minors are already prohibited from owning firearms. That was never the intent of the 2A. Stop being utterly moronic.

Where in the 2nd amendment does it say that children can`t have a gun to defend themselves? You opened up this can of worms didn`t you?

 

[Rustic]

Lefties hate voter i.d.s....call them a "poll tax". But they like an i.d. for gun owners. That's a real disconnect.

um, yeah, you can't kill people with votes... you can kill them with guns. Happy to have straightened that out for you, you look a little dopey.

Law-abiding people are not violent criminals dumbass

They are law abiding citizens until they aren't anymore.

Lol
Obviously you’re just a control freak

 

[Rustic]

Lefties hate voter i.d.s....call them a "poll tax". But they like an i.d. for gun owners. That's a real disconnect.

um, yeah, you can't kill people with votes... you can kill them with guns. Happy to have straightened that out for you, you look a little dopey.

Law-abiding people are not violent criminals dumbass

Everyone in jail was once a law abiding citizen dumbass.

Lol
Control freak

 

[Rustic]

You can kill people with just about anything

Yes, you can... with the right training.

Guns make it easy to kill people without training.

But we should totally tolerate 33,000 deaths, 70,000 injuries, 400,000 gun crimes and 27 BILLION in economic losses every year because some of you want to compensate for your "shortcomings".

Lol
Pussy

 

[Rustic]

Lefties hate voter i.d.s....call them a "poll tax". But they like an i.d. for gun owners. That's a real disconnect.

um, yeah, you can't kill people with votes... you can kill them with guns. Happy to have straightened that out for you, you look a little dopey.

Law-abiding people are not violent criminals dumbass

And so are people that commit fraud so I guess that's okay by you.

Lol
Says someone who supports career politicians

 

[Rustic]

Most gun deaths are suicides and suicide is an absolute right.

Okay, you win. You've convinced me you are a retard.

We don't pat suicidal people on the back and say, "Have a good time", we commit them to mental health institutes.

Lol
Suicide is the most cowardly thing anyone can do, But it does take care of itself

 

[Rustic]

No we let people make their own choices.

Just because the government doesn't recognize the ultimate right of anyone, the choice to live or die, in no way means it doesn't exist.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. That's why it should be discouraged.

If banning guns prevents ONE suicide, totally worth it.

Lol
Suicide is the answer to nothing, so it does not count

 

[danielpalos]

Any tax or fee on the exercise of a Right is unConstitutional.....see Murdock v Pennsylvania, and now a judge in Illinois, even with morons in charge of the state, finds the FOID card, unConstitutional.....the card is required in Illinois to own a gun...

Illinois Circuit Judge Rules FOID Card Unconstitutional; Attorney General Reportedly Appealing to IL Supreme Court - The Truth About Guns

The case began with the March 2017 arrest of a now-divorced, 4′ 11″ fifty-something woman for the high crime of possessing a single-shot .22 rifle for self-defense. Obviously, she’s not exactly Bonnie Parker of Bonnie and Clyde fame. She failed to have a FOID card for her rifle, despite eligibility to receive one. In February 2018, a White County judge ruled the FOID Act unconstitutional.

10. In this case the facts show the defendant possessed a gun, in her house, for the purpose of self-defense without a FOID card. To require the defendant to fill out a form, provide a picture ID and pay a $10 fee to obtain a FOID card before she can exercise her constitutional right to self-defense with a firearm is a violation of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution as applied to the States and a violation of Article I, Section 22, of the Constitution of the State of Illinois, as applied to this case only.

11. Based upon the forgoing, the Court finds 430 ILCS 65/2(a)(l) unconstitutional as applied to this case.

Motions and counter-motions poured in, and in October 2018, the judge reaffirmed his ruling and expanded upon it.

3. The Court supplements its ruling of February 2, 2018, as follows:

a. To comply with 430 ILCS 65/2(a)(l) a person must have a FOID card on their person when in either actual or constructive possession of a firearm or ammunition. Owning a FOID card is insufficient to comply with the statute. See People v. Eldens, 63 Ill.App.3d 554 (Fifth Dist. 1978) and People v. Cahill, 37 Ill.App.3d 361 (Second Dist. Second Div. 1976). A person is in constructive possession of a firearm or ammunition when: (1) The person has knowledge of the presence of a weapon or ammunition, and (2) That person is in immediate and exclusive control over the area where the firearm or ammunition is located.

Due to the language of 430 ILCS 65/2(a)(l) and the Court’s interpretation of the statute, it is clear that compliance is impossible when one is in ·their own home. No person could have their FOID card on their person 24 hours each and every day when firearms or ammunition are in the house.

In addition, every person in the home (family member, friend, spouse, etc.) who has knowledge of the firearms or ammunition and has immediate and exclusive control of the area where the firearms or ammunition is located, who does not have a FOID card, would be in violation of the statute.

Thus, 430 ILCS 65/2(a)(l) is unconstitutional, as applied to this defendant, because it is impossible to comply in the person’s .own home. As an alternative, if 430 ILCS 65/2(a)(l) is constitutional then it becomes obvious the legislature did not intend the ~tatute to apply in one’s own home due to impossibility of compliance.

We have a Second Amendment and should have no security problems in our free States.

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

 

[hadit]

No we let people make their own choices.

Just because the government doesn't recognize the ultimate right of anyone, the choice to live or die, in no way means it doesn't exist.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. That's why it should be discouraged.

If banning guns prevents ONE suicide, totally worth it.

If restricting cars to 35mph or less saves ONE life, totally worth it. If outlawing abortions allows ONE baby to live, totally worth it. See how it works when your ox is being gored? Society places economic value on lives all the time.

 

[danielpalos]

Lefties hate voter i.d.s....call them a "poll tax". But they like an i.d. for gun owners. That's a real disconnect.

Voter forms of identification don't necessarily mean purchasing one from the state. So one more time the left
is hypocritical and inconsistent in what they support depending on if it serves their political agenda or not.

There is no immigration clause in our federal Constitution and we should have no illegal problem. All foreign nationals in the US should be federally identified by the general government.

 

[Rustic]

No we let people make their own choices.

Just because the government doesn't recognize the ultimate right of anyone, the choice to live or die, in no way means it doesn't exist.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. That's why it should be discouraged.

If banning guns prevents ONE suicide, totally worth it.

Lol
Only fool thinks firearms have anything to do with Suicides, Firearms have no control over people you fucking. moron