If your daughter was at that San Bernadino Christmas party, would you want her to have a gun?

[PaintMyHouse]

It was a gun free zone and only one daughter had a gun there…..the mass shooter's wife…..

I was listening to Dan and Amy here in Chicago and they played an interview with the father of a woman at the party….he is a county employee and would have been there but it was his day off….

His grown daughter, however, was actually there, she also works for the county…

When the shooting started she was in the bathroom and she called her father about what was happening….

He broke down and cried during the interview as he said that his daughter was in deadly danger and he couldn't do anything to help her………

I know one thing he can do for the next time……..encourage her to get training and get a concealed carry permit…..she was in the bathroom, and had the killers come into the bathroom she could have fought back……if they had come into the bathroom, with her being unarmed…she would have been killed…

Answer the poll

Really?

She would have been dead with a gun because of what they were wearing was BODY ARMOR, so how would she have been able to stop the killers?

It is like the retards screaming after the Oregon Campus shooting about had the students and staff been armed they could have stopped the lone gunman ( which was a terroristic act ) but failed to understand that the Campus was actually not a Gun Free Zone under Oregon law and one student was carrying at the time outside the halls and did not get involved because of the fact he was afraid of being shot by the police.

So as you dream of the day arming every citizen across this nation the fact still remains her having a gun would have done very little except get her killed, and she most likely would have not engaged anyway seeing the fact they ( the shooters ) were in body armor which meant she would had to be trained to be a sniper to take them out and had the proper weapon on her to do so, and I know for a fact her gun most likely would have been a .25 caliber and nothing larger!

The chances of someone with enough training, skill, and calm in a full-on ******* panic to kill either of these two assholes is off the charts. It's the same for the Paris theater. Could they get off a shot or two, maybe, before they were absolutely dead instead of maybe dead, yeah. Great solution. Hey, heavily armed people in body-armor, look at me playing John Wayne, the last thing they ever did.

The more likely outcome of this will be they jerk in Texas who shot the carjacking victim in the head, did not render assistance, grabbed the evidence, and fled before the cops arrived.

I actually own two shotguns within my home, and one is for protection of the estate and the other is for hunting. If I am in a mass shooting scenario the reality is the only thing I can do is duck, cover, and try to get others to safety if I can.

If a shooter has me pinned in, and I have no other way to get out of the way of being shot, then yes I will fire as many rounds I can and pray that one will strike the bastard dead, but with what was going on in California the reality is I would have not killed them and just got myself killed.

Too many people wish to be Bruce Willis in Die Hard but the reality is many of them would shit and piss their pants when confronted with a actual scenario like what happen in California.

Most that call for more guns have never been in a violent confrontation when a firearm was involved, and never been shot by one, and I have had both happen to me, and damn well know the reality of it all and you have split second to think or die and I am still alive with a scar to remind me of that event daily.

The only thing most Americans know about guns is what they see in the movies. Bruce Willis at that party would have been dead like the rest of them, who never saw it coming if they were lucky that is.

the only thing most gun grabbers know about gun owners is what they dream up from their dislike of people in general...and then add to that with their basic fear of guns...

because not one thing they believe about guns and gun owners is accurate.....not from what the anti gunners here post....

I own guns, and they are all going in a hole in the ground, just not soon enough.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Look....in the cases,where a mass shooter stupidly attacks a place where there is a concealed carry permit holder, the gun owner stopped the attack and saved lives...

Bullshit...

 

[2aguy]

It was a gun free zone and only one daughter had a gun there…..the mass shooter's wife…..

I was listening to Dan and Amy here in Chicago and they played an interview with the father of a woman at the party….he is a county employee and would have been there but it was his day off….

His grown daughter, however, was actually there, she also works for the county…

When the shooting started she was in the bathroom and she called her father about what was happening….

He broke down and cried during the interview as he said that his daughter was in deadly danger and he couldn't do anything to help her………

I know one thing he can do for the next time……..encourage her to get training and get a concealed carry permit…..she was in the bathroom, and had the killers come into the bathroom she could have fought back……if they had come into the bathroom, with her being unarmed…she would have been killed…

Answer the poll

Really?

She would have been dead with a gun because of what they were wearing was BODY ARMOR, so how would she have been able to stop the killers?

It is like the retards screaming after the Oregon Campus shooting about had the students and staff been armed they could have stopped the lone gunman ( which was a terroristic act ) but failed to understand that the Campus was actually not a Gun Free Zone under Oregon law and one student was carrying at the time outside the halls and did not get involved because of the fact he was afraid of being shot by the police.

So as you dream of the day arming every citizen across this nation the fact still remains her having a gun would have done very little except get her killed, and she most likely would have not engaged anyway seeing the fact they ( the shooters ) were in body armor which meant she would had to be trained to be a sniper to take them out and had the proper weapon on her to do so, and I know for a fact her gun most likely would have been a .25 caliber and nothing larger!

nope...they did not have body armor...and getting hit in the chest at close range by a pistol round is not just shrugged off...and getting hit multiple time at close range into body armor is even worse....and that doesn't include hits to the limbs or the head as you fire multiple rounds at them...which is why magazine limits are so stupid......and only affect normal gun owners...


did California's magazine limit effect the killers? What about the locked magazine.?did that effect the killers?

the Oregon campus was a gun free zone.....the Campus did not allow guns interior buildings.....and you could apply for an exemption...but that was not likely to be granted.....

The guy who was carrying was all the way across the campus.....so he wasn't close enough and running around with his pistol is not what he decided to do...showing that yes...?Normal gun owners are rational beings even with an active mass shooting underway.......

and I bet if the shooter had picked the building and room that the one concealed carry gun owner was in...lives would have been saved...since all of these shootings that have been studied show that the shooter will immediately suicide or surrender as soon as they are comfronted by armed resistance......

You should actually do research into the subject....you will have a better understanding of the reality...not what you simply assume to be the case?.

 

[2aguy]

It was a gun free zone and only one daughter had a gun there…..the mass shooter's wife…..

I was listening to Dan and Amy here in Chicago and they played an interview with the father of a woman at the party….he is a county employee and would have been there but it was his day off….

His grown daughter, however, was actually there, she also works for the county…

When the shooting started she was in the bathroom and she called her father about what was happening….

He broke down and cried during the interview as he said that his daughter was in deadly danger and he couldn't do anything to help her………

I know one thing he can do for the next time……..encourage her to get training and get a concealed carry permit…..she was in the bathroom, and had the killers come into the bathroom she could have fought back……if they had come into the bathroom, with her being unarmed…she would have been killed…

Answer the poll

Really?

She would have been dead with a gun because of what they were wearing was BODY ARMOR, so how would she have been able to stop the killers?

It is like the retards screaming after the Oregon Campus shooting about had the students and staff been armed they could have stopped the lone gunman ( which was a terroristic act ) but failed to understand that the Campus was actually not a Gun Free Zone under Oregon law and one student was carrying at the time outside the halls and did not get involved because of the fact he was afraid of being shot by the police.

So as you dream of the day arming every citizen across this nation the fact still remains her having a gun would have done very little except get her killed, and she most likely would have not engaged anyway seeing the fact they ( the shooters ) were in body armor which meant she would had to be trained to be a sniper to take them out and had the proper weapon on her to do so, and I know for a fact her gun most likely would have been a .25 caliber and nothing larger!

Please...do some research...your post about her needing to be a sniper....in the close quarters of an exchange in the distance of a bathroom and the bathroom door...shows that you need to read actual stories of actual civilians actually using guns for self defense against criminals and mass shooters...of you do...you will see that everything you just posted is wrong...

 

[2aguy]

Look....in the cases,where a mass shooter stupidly attacks a place where there is a concealed carry permit holder, the gun owner stopped the attack and saved lives...

Bullshit...

Truth...look up the stories....just don't make them up in your imagination.....

 

[2aguy]

Yes....another gun free zone...we already know how that turns out for unarmed people when monsters come in with guns....into the gun free zone...


it would be nice if more people..normal gun owners, could actually stop them...

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Look....in the cases,where a mass shooter stupidly attacks a place where there is a concealed carry permit holder, the gun owner stopped the attack and saved lives...

Bullshit...

Truth...look up the stories....just don't make them up in your imagination.....

I know what's out there, and what you believe is bullshit. Your little morons shoot at carjackers, shoplifters, and purse snatchers, and then run away. They aren't shooting at these two or anything like the Paris terrorists. Even the police didn't manage to kill most of them, and they were far better trained and armed. You live in a fantasy world.

 

[2aguy]

Look....in the cases,where a mass shooter stupidly attacks a place where there is a concealed carry permit holder, the gun owner stopped the attack and saved lives...

Bullshit...

Truth...look up the stories....just don't make them up in your imagination.....

I know what's out there, and what you believe is bullshit. Your little morons shoot at carjackers, shoplifters, and purse snatchers, and then run away. They aren't shooting at these two or anything like the Paris terrorists. Even the police didn't manage to kill most of them, and they were far better trained and armed. You live in a fantasy world.

No.....not even close...that is what the anti gun people in journalism focus on...but that isn't the reality.....and I love it when you guys make almost every public space a gun free zone.....for good people...but not killers......and then say...see....no one was able to use a gun to stop them......

I am tired of seeing so many unarmed people murdered in your gun free zones....which killers ignore.....I have read the stories and know the reality....normal people with guns will save lives......but you hate guns so much you would rather see the dead pile up than have a normal person with a gun save those lives...

 

[charwin95]

What do you mean No? Car accident are accident. All gun deaths are intentional no matter how you sliced it.

You've obviouly never handled a gun, gone hunting, or have any idea what you are talking about. A gun, in essence, is a machine, all machines are suseptable to mechanical failure. The human factor also plays a part, it used to be that many hunters would be out in the woods with ordinary clothing on, and a hanky hanging out of their pocket. They looked a bit like a deer running away, to someone who was inexperienced or flat out careless. This sort of thing still happens, people mistake other people for animals, it's not intentional. It is possible, that a person could be unseen by a fellow hunter (sitting in a low-lying area such as a ditch), when the first hunter shoots, the bullet could travel through (or miss entirely) their intended target, continue traveling until it strikes the second hunter in the low-lying area. To say that all gun deaths are intentional is both naive and foolishly dishonest.

Distorted. A machines are made especially for one thing only. Like your car..... is made to transport people.
Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people. Whoever pull the gun maybe it be accident or intentional. It is made for one thing.......to kill people. Try again.

Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people.

Wrong.....absolutely wrong...a gun is designed to preserve the life of the user....and most of the time it does that without ever being fired...so no...it isn't designed to kill people..it is designed to fire a projectile......and in most self defense it doesn't have to do that to carry out it's primary function..preserving the life of the user.....

Most cops never fire their guns...but the presence of their gun keeps the peace....

Most soldiers never fire their guns....but the presence of armed soldiers keeps the peace...

Most civilians attacked by violent criminals never fire their guns....and the criminal runs away or is captured and no shots are fired.

From pro gun.........that is acceptable. However you sliced it Guy.... guns are made for killing.
I'm comfortable with cops and soldiers having arms but not the entire civilization armed to the teeth walking around. As I see you are trained, disciplined and a decent person.
But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.........Argue at the bar, drunk, shop lifting, loud music, looking at my girl f, why are you looking at me, you are rude, road rage, I hate my professor, you ding my car, you took my spot, start race war.............BANG. BANG BANG...
I don't want to see people walking around with their guns strap at their shoulder or waist.

No...guns are made to save the life of the user...and as I have pointed out, the majority of guns are never fired at another human being...and yet they preserve not only the life of the owner but those they protect....

But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.

Look....I respect that you want to keep people safe....I just think you don't really have a clear picture of the reality of guns in the United States.

As to stupid people....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands..... and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013....have you thought about what those numbers actually mean?

And another set of numbers....there are currently over 13 million people carrying guns for protection...and again...only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013...... those numbers are amazing.....any other activity with those numbers would be considered statistically safe....

The stupid people were already carrying guns illegally in the 90s before normal people were able to carry guns....as more normal people started to carry guns...our gun accident rate went down....way down...not up.....

Our gun murder rate has gone down, not up as more Americans own and carry guns....which shows that your belief about guns in America is not accurate...especially about gun owners...

Are there stupid people..yes.....but they are also driving cars...and they kill more people in cars than they do carrying guns.....

And the gun murder rate....8,124 gun murders in 2014.....has gone down every year since the 90s....as more Americans carry and own guns......and those gun murders...the majority of those are committed by people breaking the law with guns...violent career criminals who are murdering other career criminals....

So, you are right to be concerned...but your concerns are not based on an accurate understanding of gun ownership in the United States....

In short. This what you are telling me:
1. Ignore all these murders, crimes and deaths related to guns.
2. Sell and armed every citizens in America so NRA makes more money.
3. Ignore the gun epidemic in this country. Let just rock and roll.
4. Let people walk around in places like malls, churches, schools, sports event etc....with guns strap on their shoulder or waist. Good lord....just like the Wild West.
On the side......As I previously mentioned to you from separate thread. I have total of 28 LEO working part timers as security guards but none of them support what you're telling me.
And so are the ICE and DEA officials that I known personally. None of them. I have yet to find one person that support you except here on the Internet.[/QUOTE]


1. I never said ignore the criminals committing crimes and murders with guns ...I keep telliing you the way to reduce them is to actually target the criminals....and the way you do that is with long prison sentences for criminals caught in possession of guns......you guys only care about normal people who own guns...and that doesn't do anyting to reduce gun violence....

2. No......never said that either....but as a right, any American who is not a felon should be able to won and crry a gun for self defense....and who cares what the NRA does....they are not criminals.

3. We do not have a gun epidemic in the country....we have over 320 million guns in private hands...and only 8,124 gun murders in the entire country...of over 320 million people.........

The majority of those gun murders take place in tiny....tiny multi block areas of our democrat controlled inner cities...as Milwaukee shows......they don't have a gun problem in Wisconsin...just democrat controlled Milwaukee...and in Milwaukkee the shootings take place in a tiny area....

And another thing....13 million Americans now carry guns for selfdefense and our gun murder rate is going down, not up.

4. The Wild West wasn't wild......and normal people carrying guns are not the ones shooting people...again...13 million people carrying guns and our gun murder rate is going down. And on of the most dangerous places is a gun free zone........as we keep seeing. And of 5 church shootings....fewer lives were lost when normal gun owners were carrying guns......more died in the churches that were gun free zones....


Funny....I bet those Leos you know...will carry a gun when they want to ...right......they just don't want other people carrying a gun.....but for them it is okay....even though sworn police officers commit more crimes than citizens who carry concealed gun permits.....[/QUOTE]

From 1 & 2..... Technically you said yes because you keep comparing guns and car death. Long sentences of criminals will not reduce gun deaths and crimes. Unless anyone can guarantee that no other criminals will sprung up somewhere. Yes we do have gun epidemic in this country.
You want people walking around with guns in every places. You want to flood this country with more guns. And for you that is the right thing to do. I can assure you that high percentage of Americans will disagree with you.
You also denied Wild West was not wild....what can I say.
LEO carry guns to protect citizens and yes they don't want others carrying guns because of several reasons...... Even retired LEO doesn't support that.
I don't want to see a John McClane walking around try be a hero and start shooting. Yes there are bad cops that doesn't mean they are all bad.

 

[2aguy]

You've obviouly never handled a gun, gone hunting, or have any idea what you are talking about. A gun, in essence, is a machine, all machines are suseptable to mechanical failure. The human factor also plays a part, it used to be that many hunters would be out in the woods with ordinary clothing on, and a hanky hanging out of their pocket. They looked a bit like a deer running away, to someone who was inexperienced or flat out careless. This sort of thing still happens, people mistake other people for animals, it's not intentional. It is possible, that a person could be unseen by a fellow hunter (sitting in a low-lying area such as a ditch), when the first hunter shoots, the bullet could travel through (or miss entirely) their intended target, continue traveling until it strikes the second hunter in the low-lying area. To say that all gun deaths are intentional is both naive and foolishly dishonest.

Distorted. A machines are made especially for one thing only. Like your car..... is made to transport people.
Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people. Whoever pull the gun maybe it be accident or intentional. It is made for one thing.......to kill people. Try again.

Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people.

Wrong.....absolutely wrong...a gun is designed to preserve the life of the user....and most of the time it does that without ever being fired...so no...it isn't designed to kill people..it is designed to fire a projectile......and in most self defense it doesn't have to do that to carry out it's primary function..preserving the life of the user.....

Most cops never fire their guns...but the presence of their gun keeps the peace....

Most soldiers never fire their guns....but the presence of armed soldiers keeps the peace...

Most civilians attacked by violent criminals never fire their guns....and the criminal runs away or is captured and no shots are fired.

From pro gun.........that is acceptable. However you sliced it Guy.... guns are made for killing.
I'm comfortable with cops and soldiers having arms but not the entire civilization armed to the teeth walking around. As I see you are trained, disciplined and a decent person.
But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.........Argue at the bar, drunk, shop lifting, loud music, looking at my girl f, why are you looking at me, you are rude, road rage, I hate my professor, you ding my car, you took my spot, start race war.............BANG. BANG BANG...
I don't want to see people walking around with their guns strap at their shoulder or waist.

No...guns are made to save the life of the user...and as I have pointed out, the majority of guns are never fired at another human being...and yet they preserve not only the life of the owner but those they protect....

But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.

Look....I respect that you want to keep people safe....I just think you don't really have a clear picture of the reality of guns in the United States.

As to stupid people....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands..... and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013....have you thought about what those numbers actually mean?

And another set of numbers....there are currently over 13 million people carrying guns for protection...and again...only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013...... those numbers are amazing.....any other activity with those numbers would be considered statistically safe....

The stupid people were already carrying guns illegally in the 90s before normal people were able to carry guns....as more normal people started to carry guns...our gun accident rate went down....way down...not up.....

Our gun murder rate has gone down, not up as more Americans own and carry guns....which shows that your belief about guns in America is not accurate...especially about gun owners...

Are there stupid people..yes.....but they are also driving cars...and they kill more people in cars than they do carrying guns.....

And the gun murder rate....8,124 gun murders in 2014.....has gone down every year since the 90s....as more Americans carry and own guns......and those gun murders...the majority of those are committed by people breaking the law with guns...violent career criminals who are murdering other career criminals....

So, you are right to be concerned...but your concerns are not based on an accurate understanding of gun ownership in the United States....

In short. This what you are telling me:
1. Ignore all these murders, crimes and deaths related to guns.
2. Sell and armed every citizens in America so NRA makes more money.
3. Ignore the gun epidemic in this country. Let just rock and roll.
4. Let people walk around in places like malls, churches, schools, sports event etc....with guns strap on their shoulder or waist. Good lord....just like the Wild West.
On the side......As I previously mentioned to you from separate thread. I have total of 28 LEO working part timers as security guards but none of them support what you're telling me.
And so are the ICE and DEA officials that I known personally. None of them. I have yet to find one person that support you except here on the Internet.

1. I never said ignore the criminals committing crimes and murders with guns ...I keep telliing you the way to reduce them is to actually target the criminals....and the way you do that is with long prison sentences for criminals caught in possession of guns......you guys only care about normal people who own guns...and that doesn't do anyting to reduce gun violence....

2. No......never said that either....but as a right, any American who is not a felon should be able to won and crry a gun for self defense....and who cares what the NRA does....they are not criminals.

3. We do not have a gun epidemic in the country....we have over 320 million guns in private hands...and only 8,124 gun murders in the entire country...of over 320 million people.........

The majority of those gun murders take place in tiny....tiny multi block areas of our democrat controlled inner cities...as Milwaukee shows......they don't have a gun problem in Wisconsin...just democrat controlled Milwaukee...and in Milwaukkee the shootings take place in a tiny area....

And another thing....13 million Americans now carry guns for selfdefense and our gun murder rate is going down, not up.

4. The Wild West wasn't wild......and normal people carrying guns are not the ones shooting people...again...13 million people carrying guns and our gun murder rate is going down. And on of the most dangerous places is a gun free zone........as we keep seeing. And of 5 church shootings....fewer lives were lost when normal gun owners were carrying guns......more died in the churches that were gun free zones....


Funny....I bet those Leos you know...will carry a gun when they want to ...right......they just don't want other people carrying a gun.....but for them it is okay....even though sworn police officers commit more crimes than citizens who carry concealed gun permits.....[/QUOTE]

From 1 & 2..... Technically you said yes because you keep comparing guns and car death. Long sentences of criminals will not reduce gun deaths and crimes. Unless anyone can guarantee that no other criminals will sprung up somewhere. Yes we do have gun epidemic in this country.
You want people walking around with guns in every places. You want to flood this country with more guns. And for you that is the right thing to do. I can assure you that high percentage of Americans will disagree with you.
You also denied Wild West was not wild....what can I say.
LEO carry guns to protect citizens and yes they don't want others carrying guns because of several reasons...... Even retired LEO doesn't support that.
I don't want to see a John McClane walking around try be a hero and start shooting. Yes there are bad cops that doesn't mean they are all bad.[/QUOTE]


Have you actually studied self defense shootings by armed civilians..at all...? Because if you did you wouldn't post what you post......

The first people to compare cars to guns were the anti gunners who put out a lie that gun deaths are going to surpass car deaths...I have the article...

No, an epidemic is not 8,124 of anything in a total of over 320 million...or even the smaller number of 13 million

I don't want to flood the country with more guns...I want normal, non violent people to be able to protect themselves from violent criminals......

The West was not Wild....that is a movie myth...

You are talking to Leos in the wrong state....the Leos I have talked to disagree with yours...and in fact studies of views of guns between line officers and politically appointed police chiefs agree with me......

John McClane...again...do some actual research...study actual gun self defense by civilians...then get back to me...

 

[2aguy]

You've obviouly never handled a gun, gone hunting, or have any idea what you are talking about. A gun, in essence, is a machine, all machines are suseptable to mechanical failure. The human factor also plays a part, it used to be that many hunters would be out in the woods with ordinary clothing on, and a hanky hanging out of their pocket. They looked a bit like a deer running away, to someone who was inexperienced or flat out careless. This sort of thing still happens, people mistake other people for animals, it's not intentional. It is possible, that a person could be unseen by a fellow hunter (sitting in a low-lying area such as a ditch), when the first hunter shoots, the bullet could travel through (or miss entirely) their intended target, continue traveling until it strikes the second hunter in the low-lying area. To say that all gun deaths are intentional is both naive and foolishly dishonest.

Distorted. A machines are made especially for one thing only. Like your car..... is made to transport people.
Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people. Whoever pull the gun maybe it be accident or intentional. It is made for one thing.......to kill people. Try again.

Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people.

Wrong.....absolutely wrong...a gun is designed to preserve the life of the user....and most of the time it does that without ever being fired...so no...it isn't designed to kill people..it is designed to fire a projectile......and in most self defense it doesn't have to do that to carry out it's primary function..preserving the life of the user.....

Most cops never fire their guns...but the presence of their gun keeps the peace....

Most soldiers never fire their guns....but the presence of armed soldiers keeps the peace...

Most civilians attacked by violent criminals never fire their guns....and the criminal runs away or is captured and no shots are fired.

From pro gun.........that is acceptable. However you sliced it Guy.... guns are made for killing.
I'm comfortable with cops and soldiers having arms but not the entire civilization armed to the teeth walking around. As I see you are trained, disciplined and a decent person.
But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.........Argue at the bar, drunk, shop lifting, loud music, looking at my girl f, why are you looking at me, you are rude, road rage, I hate my professor, you ding my car, you took my spot, start race war.............BANG. BANG BANG...
I don't want to see people walking around with their guns strap at their shoulder or waist.

No...guns are made to save the life of the user...and as I have pointed out, the majority of guns are never fired at another human being...and yet they preserve not only the life of the owner but those they protect....

But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.

Look....I respect that you want to keep people safe....I just think you don't really have a clear picture of the reality of guns in the United States.

As to stupid people....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands..... and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013....have you thought about what those numbers actually mean?

And another set of numbers....there are currently over 13 million people carrying guns for protection...and again...only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013...... those numbers are amazing.....any other activity with those numbers would be considered statistically safe....

The stupid people were already carrying guns illegally in the 90s before normal people were able to carry guns....as more normal people started to carry guns...our gun accident rate went down....way down...not up.....

Our gun murder rate has gone down, not up as more Americans own and carry guns....which shows that your belief about guns in America is not accurate...especially about gun owners...

Are there stupid people..yes.....but they are also driving cars...and they kill more people in cars than they do carrying guns.....

And the gun murder rate....8,124 gun murders in 2014.....has gone down every year since the 90s....as more Americans carry and own guns......and those gun murders...the majority of those are committed by people breaking the law with guns...violent career criminals who are murdering other career criminals....

So, you are right to be concerned...but your concerns are not based on an accurate understanding of gun ownership in the United States....

In short. This what you are telling me:
1. Ignore all these murders, crimes and deaths related to guns.
2. Sell and armed every citizens in America so NRA makes more money.
3. Ignore the gun epidemic in this country. Let just rock and roll.
4. Let people walk around in places like malls, churches, schools, sports event etc....with guns strap on their shoulder or waist. Good lord....just like the Wild West.
On the side......As I previously mentioned to you from separate thread. I have total of 28 LEO working part timers as security guards but none of them support what you're telling me.
And so are the ICE and DEA officials that I known personally. None of them. I have yet to find one person that support you except here on the Internet.

1. I never said ignore the criminals committing crimes and murders with guns ...I keep telliing you the way to reduce them is to actually target the criminals....and the way you do that is with long prison sentences for criminals caught in possession of guns......you guys only care about normal people who own guns...and that doesn't do anyting to reduce gun violence....

2. No......never said that either....but as a right, any American who is not a felon should be able to won and crry a gun for self defense....and who cares what the NRA does....they are not criminals.

3. We do not have a gun epidemic in the country....we have over 320 million guns in private hands...and only 8,124 gun murders in the entire country...of over 320 million people.........

The majority of those gun murders take place in tiny....tiny multi block areas of our democrat controlled inner cities...as Milwaukee shows......they don't have a gun problem in Wisconsin...just democrat controlled Milwaukee...and in Milwaukkee the shootings take place in a tiny area....

And another thing....13 million Americans now carry guns for selfdefense and our gun murder rate is going down, not up.

4. The Wild West wasn't wild......and normal people carrying guns are not the ones shooting people...again...13 million people carrying guns and our gun murder rate is going down. And on of the most dangerous places is a gun free zone........as we keep seeing. And of 5 church shootings....fewer lives were lost when normal gun owners were carrying guns......more died in the churches that were gun free zones....


Funny....I bet those Leos you know...will carry a gun when they want to ...right......they just don't want other people carrying a gun.....but for them it is okay....even though sworn police officers commit more crimes than citizens who carry concealed gun permits.....[/QUOTE]

From 1 & 2..... Technically you said yes because you keep comparing guns and car death. Long sentences of criminals will not reduce gun deaths and crimes. Unless anyone can guarantee that no other criminals will sprung up somewhere. Yes we do have gun epidemic in this country.
You want people walking around with guns in every places. You want to flood this country with more guns. And for you that is the right thing to do. I can assure you that high percentage of Americans will disagree with you.
You also denied Wild West was not wild....what can I say.
LEO carry guns to protect citizens and yes they don't want others carrying guns because of several reasons...... Even retired LEO doesn't support that.
I don't want to see a John McClane walking around try be a hero and start shooting. Yes there are bad cops that doesn't mean they are all bad.[/QUOTE]


Once and for all...the West wasn't wild...that is movies....

Read this and I will tell you why #5 is wrong.....

5 Ridiculous Myths Everyone Believes About the Wild West | Cracked.com

 

[2aguy]

You've obviouly never handled a gun, gone hunting, or have any idea what you are talking about. A gun, in essence, is a machine, all machines are suseptable to mechanical failure. The human factor also plays a part, it used to be that many hunters would be out in the woods with ordinary clothing on, and a hanky hanging out of their pocket. They looked a bit like a deer running away, to someone who was inexperienced or flat out careless. This sort of thing still happens, people mistake other people for animals, it's not intentional. It is possible, that a person could be unseen by a fellow hunter (sitting in a low-lying area such as a ditch), when the first hunter shoots, the bullet could travel through (or miss entirely) their intended target, continue traveling until it strikes the second hunter in the low-lying area. To say that all gun deaths are intentional is both naive and foolishly dishonest.

Distorted. A machines are made especially for one thing only. Like your car..... is made to transport people.
Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people. Whoever pull the gun maybe it be accident or intentional. It is made for one thing.......to kill people. Try again.

Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people.

Wrong.....absolutely wrong...a gun is designed to preserve the life of the user....and most of the time it does that without ever being fired...so no...it isn't designed to kill people..it is designed to fire a projectile......and in most self defense it doesn't have to do that to carry out it's primary function..preserving the life of the user.....

Most cops never fire their guns...but the presence of their gun keeps the peace....

Most soldiers never fire their guns....but the presence of armed soldiers keeps the peace...

Most civilians attacked by violent criminals never fire their guns....and the criminal runs away or is captured and no shots are fired.

From pro gun.........that is acceptable. However you sliced it Guy.... guns are made for killing.
I'm comfortable with cops and soldiers having arms but not the entire civilization armed to the teeth walking around. As I see you are trained, disciplined and a decent person.
But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.........Argue at the bar, drunk, shop lifting, loud music, looking at my girl f, why are you looking at me, you are rude, road rage, I hate my professor, you ding my car, you took my spot, start race war.............BANG. BANG BANG...
I don't want to see people walking around with their guns strap at their shoulder or waist.

No...guns are made to save the life of the user...and as I have pointed out, the majority of guns are never fired at another human being...and yet they preserve not only the life of the owner but those they protect....

But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.

Look....I respect that you want to keep people safe....I just think you don't really have a clear picture of the reality of guns in the United States.

As to stupid people....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands..... and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013....have you thought about what those numbers actually mean?

And another set of numbers....there are currently over 13 million people carrying guns for protection...and again...only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013...... those numbers are amazing.....any other activity with those numbers would be considered statistically safe....

The stupid people were already carrying guns illegally in the 90s before normal people were able to carry guns....as more normal people started to carry guns...our gun accident rate went down....way down...not up.....

Our gun murder rate has gone down, not up as more Americans own and carry guns....which shows that your belief about guns in America is not accurate...especially about gun owners...

Are there stupid people..yes.....but they are also driving cars...and they kill more people in cars than they do carrying guns.....

And the gun murder rate....8,124 gun murders in 2014.....has gone down every year since the 90s....as more Americans carry and own guns......and those gun murders...the majority of those are committed by people breaking the law with guns...violent career criminals who are murdering other career criminals....

So, you are right to be concerned...but your concerns are not based on an accurate understanding of gun ownership in the United States....

In short. This what you are telling me:
1. Ignore all these murders, crimes and deaths related to guns.
2. Sell and armed every citizens in America so NRA makes more money.
3. Ignore the gun epidemic in this country. Let just rock and roll.
4. Let people walk around in places like malls, churches, schools, sports event etc....with guns strap on their shoulder or waist. Good lord....just like the Wild West.
On the side......As I previously mentioned to you from separate thread. I have total of 28 LEO working part timers as security guards but none of them support what you're telling me.
And so are the ICE and DEA officials that I known personally. None of them. I have yet to find one person that support you except here on the Internet.

1. I never said ignore the criminals committing crimes and murders with guns ...I keep telliing you the way to reduce them is to actually target the criminals....and the way you do that is with long prison sentences for criminals caught in possession of guns......you guys only care about normal people who own guns...and that doesn't do anyting to reduce gun violence....

2. No......never said that either....but as a right, any American who is not a felon should be able to won and crry a gun for self defense....and who cares what the NRA does....they are not criminals.

3. We do not have a gun epidemic in the country....we have over 320 million guns in private hands...and only 8,124 gun murders in the entire country...of over 320 million people.........

The majority of those gun murders take place in tiny....tiny multi block areas of our democrat controlled inner cities...as Milwaukee shows......they don't have a gun problem in Wisconsin...just democrat controlled Milwaukee...and in Milwaukkee the shootings take place in a tiny area....

And another thing....13 million Americans now carry guns for selfdefense and our gun murder rate is going down, not up.

4. The Wild West wasn't wild......and normal people carrying guns are not the ones shooting people...again...13 million people carrying guns and our gun murder rate is going down. And on of the most dangerous places is a gun free zone........as we keep seeing. And of 5 church shootings....fewer lives were lost when normal gun owners were carrying guns......more died in the churches that were gun free zones....


Funny....I bet those Leos you know...will carry a gun when they want to ...right......they just don't want other people carrying a gun.....but for them it is okay....even though sworn police officers commit more crimes than citizens who carry concealed gun permits.....[/QUOTE]

From 1 & 2..... Technically you said yes because you keep comparing guns and car death. Long sentences of criminals will not reduce gun deaths and crimes. Unless anyone can guarantee that no other criminals will sprung up somewhere. Yes we do have gun epidemic in this country.
You want people walking around with guns in every places. You want to flood this country with more guns. And for you that is the right thing to do. I can assure you that high percentage of Americans will disagree with you.
You also denied Wild West was not wild....what can I say.
LEO carry guns to protect citizens and yes they don't want others carrying guns because of several reasons...... Even retired LEO doesn't support that.
I don't want to see a John McClane walking around try be a hero and start shooting. Yes there are bad cops that doesn't mean they are all bad.[/QUOTE]


And here is someone who actually studied the west....

Old West violence mostly myth

However, even in a cattle town like Abilene, Kan., the murder rate was much lower than in most modern American cities. Larry Schweikart, a historian at the University of Dayton, estimates that there were probably fewer than a dozen bank robberies in the entire period from 1859 through 1900 in all the frontier West.

Schweikart summarizes: "The record is shockingly clear: There are more bank robberies in modern-day Dayton, Ohio, in a year than there were in the entire Old West in a decade, perhaps in the entire frontier period!"

An interesting conclusion of our study of the West is that today's New West is more conflict-ridden than the Old West. Agencies such as the Forest Service, the National Park Service, and the Bureau of Land Management now control nearly one-third of the land in the United States, most of it in the West.

 

[charwin95]

What do you mean No? Car accident are accident. All gun deaths are intentional no matter how you sliced it.

You've obviouly never handled a gun, gone hunting, or have any idea what you are talking about. A gun, in essence, is a machine, all machines are suseptable to mechanical failure. The human factor also plays a part, it used to be that many hunters would be out in the woods with ordinary clothing on, and a hanky hanging out of their pocket. They looked a bit like a deer running away, to someone who was inexperienced or flat out careless. This sort of thing still happens, people mistake other people for animals, it's not intentional. It is possible, that a person could be unseen by a fellow hunter (sitting in a low-lying area such as a ditch), when the first hunter shoots, the bullet could travel through (or miss entirely) their intended target, continue traveling until it strikes the second hunter in the low-lying area. To say that all gun deaths are intentional is both naive and foolishly dishonest.

Distorted. A machines are made especially for one thing only. Like your car..... is made to transport people.
Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people. Whoever pull the gun maybe it be accident or intentional. It is made for one thing.......to kill people. Try again.

Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people.

Wrong.....absolutely wrong...a gun is designed to preserve the life of the user....and most of the time it does that without ever being fired...so no...it isn't designed to kill people..it is designed to fire a projectile......and in most self defense it doesn't have to do that to carry out it's primary function..preserving the life of the user.....

Most cops never fire their guns...but the presence of their gun keeps the peace....

Most soldiers never fire their guns....but the presence of armed soldiers keeps the peace...

Most civilians attacked by violent criminals never fire their guns....and the criminal runs away or is captured and no shots are fired.

From pro gun.........that is acceptable. However you sliced it Guy.... guns are made for killing.
I'm comfortable with cops and soldiers having arms but not the entire civilization armed to the teeth walking around. As I see you are trained, disciplined and a decent person.
But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.........Argue at the bar, drunk, shop lifting, loud music, looking at my girl f, why are you looking at me, you are rude, road rage, I hate my professor, you ding my car, you took my spot, start race war.............BANG. BANG BANG...
I don't want to see people walking around with their guns strap at their shoulder or waist.

No...guns are made to save the life of the user...and as I have pointed out, the majority of guns are never fired at another human being...and yet they preserve not only the life of the owner but those they protect....

But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.

Look....I respect that you want to keep people safe....I just think you don't really have a clear picture of the reality of guns in the United States.

As to stupid people....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands..... and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013....have you thought about what those numbers actually mean?

And another set of numbers....there are currently over 13 million people carrying guns for protection...and again...only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013...... those numbers are amazing.....any other activity with those numbers would be considered statistically safe....

The stupid people were already carrying guns illegally in the 90s before normal people were able to carry guns....as more normal people started to carry guns...our gun accident rate went down....way down...not up.....

Our gun murder rate has gone down, not up as more Americans own and carry guns....which shows that your belief about guns in America is not accurate...especially about gun owners...

Are there stupid people..yes.....but they are also driving cars...and they kill more people in cars than they do carrying guns.....

And the gun murder rate....8,124 gun murders in 2014.....has gone down every year since the 90s....as more Americans carry and own guns......and those gun murders...the majority of those are committed by people breaking the law with guns...violent career criminals who are murdering other career criminals....

So, you are right to be concerned...but your concerns are not based on an accurate understanding of gun ownership in the United States....

In short. This what you are telling me:
1. Ignore all these murders, crimes and deaths related to guns.
2. Sell and armed every citizens in America so NRA makes more money.
3. Ignore the gun epidemic in this country. Let just rock and roll.
4. Let people walk around in places like malls, churches, schools, sports event etc....with guns strap on their shoulder or waist. Good lord....just like the Wild West.
On the side......As I previously mentioned to you from separate thread. I have total of 28 LEO working part timers as security guards but none of them support what you're telling me.
And so are the ICE and DEA officials that I known personally. None of them. I have yet to find one person that support you except here on the Internet.[/QUOTE]


and my experience is just the opposite..the Leo's I know all support people carrying guns...they tell me they won't be there in time in almost all violent crime situations....so you are in your own until they arrive...minutes too late....[/QUOTE]

That is impossible Guy...... come on.
1. In all kinds of shooting scenarios. Last thing a LEO want to encounter is an armed civilians on top of the what is going on.
2. Just about every gun shooting scenarios there is a massive panic and confusions.
3. When cops arrive at the scene... How is the cop able to determine who is the bad guy when people start shooting all over the place? A bad guy can easily say I'm the good guy bad guy over there.
This is one of the main reason a LEO don't want to see armed civilians walking around.

 

[2aguy]

You've obviouly never handled a gun, gone hunting, or have any idea what you are talking about. A gun, in essence, is a machine, all machines are suseptable to mechanical failure. The human factor also plays a part, it used to be that many hunters would be out in the woods with ordinary clothing on, and a hanky hanging out of their pocket. They looked a bit like a deer running away, to someone who was inexperienced or flat out careless. This sort of thing still happens, people mistake other people for animals, it's not intentional. It is possible, that a person could be unseen by a fellow hunter (sitting in a low-lying area such as a ditch), when the first hunter shoots, the bullet could travel through (or miss entirely) their intended target, continue traveling until it strikes the second hunter in the low-lying area. To say that all gun deaths are intentional is both naive and foolishly dishonest.

Distorted. A machines are made especially for one thing only. Like your car..... is made to transport people.
Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people. Whoever pull the gun maybe it be accident or intentional. It is made for one thing.......to kill people. Try again.

Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people.

Wrong.....absolutely wrong...a gun is designed to preserve the life of the user....and most of the time it does that without ever being fired...so no...it isn't designed to kill people..it is designed to fire a projectile......and in most self defense it doesn't have to do that to carry out it's primary function..preserving the life of the user.....

Most cops never fire their guns...but the presence of their gun keeps the peace....

Most soldiers never fire their guns....but the presence of armed soldiers keeps the peace...

Most civilians attacked by violent criminals never fire their guns....and the criminal runs away or is captured and no shots are fired.

From pro gun.........that is acceptable. However you sliced it Guy.... guns are made for killing.
I'm comfortable with cops and soldiers having arms but not the entire civilization armed to the teeth walking around. As I see you are trained, disciplined and a decent person.
But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.........Argue at the bar, drunk, shop lifting, loud music, looking at my girl f, why are you looking at me, you are rude, road rage, I hate my professor, you ding my car, you took my spot, start race war.............BANG. BANG BANG...
I don't want to see people walking around with their guns strap at their shoulder or waist.

No...guns are made to save the life of the user...and as I have pointed out, the majority of guns are never fired at another human being...and yet they preserve not only the life of the owner but those they protect....

But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.

Look....I respect that you want to keep people safe....I just think you don't really have a clear picture of the reality of guns in the United States.

As to stupid people....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands..... and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013....have you thought about what those numbers actually mean?

And another set of numbers....there are currently over 13 million people carrying guns for protection...and again...only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013...... those numbers are amazing.....any other activity with those numbers would be considered statistically safe....

The stupid people were already carrying guns illegally in the 90s before normal people were able to carry guns....as more normal people started to carry guns...our gun accident rate went down....way down...not up.....

Our gun murder rate has gone down, not up as more Americans own and carry guns....which shows that your belief about guns in America is not accurate...especially about gun owners...

Are there stupid people..yes.....but they are also driving cars...and they kill more people in cars than they do carrying guns.....

And the gun murder rate....8,124 gun murders in 2014.....has gone down every year since the 90s....as more Americans carry and own guns......and those gun murders...the majority of those are committed by people breaking the law with guns...violent career criminals who are murdering other career criminals....

So, you are right to be concerned...but your concerns are not based on an accurate understanding of gun ownership in the United States....

In short. This what you are telling me:
1. Ignore all these murders, crimes and deaths related to guns.
2. Sell and armed every citizens in America so NRA makes more money.
3. Ignore the gun epidemic in this country. Let just rock and roll.
4. Let people walk around in places like malls, churches, schools, sports event etc....with guns strap on their shoulder or waist. Good lord....just like the Wild West.
On the side......As I previously mentioned to you from separate thread. I have total of 28 LEO working part timers as security guards but none of them support what you're telling me.
And so are the ICE and DEA officials that I known personally. None of them. I have yet to find one person that support you except here on the Internet.

and my experience is just the opposite..the Leo's I know all support people carrying guns...they tell me they won't be there in time in almost all violent crime situations....so you are in your own until they arrive...minutes too late....[/QUOTE]

That is impossible Guy...... come on.
1. In all kinds of shooting scenarios. Last thing a LEO want to encounter is an armed civilians on top of the what is going on.
2. Just about every gun shooting scenarios there is a massive panic and confusions.
3. When cops arrive at the scene... How is the cop able to determine who is the bad guy when people start shooting all over the place? A bad guy can easily say I'm the good guy bad guy over there.
This is one of the main reason a LEO don't want to see armed civilians walking around.[/QUOTE]


You do realize that these situations have hapened...right....and that when the police arrive the gun owner simply sets the weapon down and puts his hand up......do your research...you can see videos of this....

At the gabby giffords shooting...there were two conealed carriers right there in the confusion...one had his gun out and ready to shoot at the attacker but didn't because of the people...the other came out of the store and saw the first one....he drew his weapon and pointed it at him....he realized the guy wasn't the threat, and people yelled, "it's not him" and he didn't fire his weapon either....the actual shooter had screwed up and gotten himself tackled by a guy he had shot....so the one concealed carrier told the first guy to set his gun on the ground and put his foot on it...just to be sure.....no one was shot, and when the police arrived they did not have a hard time figuring out who was who....

You know why.......

because the normal gun owner isn't shooting at the police or victims.......and the actual shooters...start shooting at the police or commit suicide....again...do your research...know what you are talking about...

And as to the silly...."the bad guy can claim he is the good guy and tell the cops the good guy is the bad guy..." The cops will know it isn't true when the bad guys starts shooting at them or refuses to surrender....the good guy...will simply put his gun down and raise his hands...as I have actually seen on videos captured on cameras at crime scenes...please...do some research....

 

[2aguy]

You've obviouly never handled a gun, gone hunting, or have any idea what you are talking about. A gun, in essence, is a machine, all machines are suseptable to mechanical failure. The human factor also plays a part, it used to be that many hunters would be out in the woods with ordinary clothing on, and a hanky hanging out of their pocket. They looked a bit like a deer running away, to someone who was inexperienced or flat out careless. This sort of thing still happens, people mistake other people for animals, it's not intentional. It is possible, that a person could be unseen by a fellow hunter (sitting in a low-lying area such as a ditch), when the first hunter shoots, the bullet could travel through (or miss entirely) their intended target, continue traveling until it strikes the second hunter in the low-lying area. To say that all gun deaths are intentional is both naive and foolishly dishonest.

Distorted. A machines are made especially for one thing only. Like your car..... is made to transport people.
Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people. Whoever pull the gun maybe it be accident or intentional. It is made for one thing.......to kill people. Try again.

Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people.

Wrong.....absolutely wrong...a gun is designed to preserve the life of the user....and most of the time it does that without ever being fired...so no...it isn't designed to kill people..it is designed to fire a projectile......and in most self defense it doesn't have to do that to carry out it's primary function..preserving the life of the user.....

Most cops never fire their guns...but the presence of their gun keeps the peace....

Most soldiers never fire their guns....but the presence of armed soldiers keeps the peace...

Most civilians attacked by violent criminals never fire their guns....and the criminal runs away or is captured and no shots are fired.

From pro gun.........that is acceptable. However you sliced it Guy.... guns are made for killing.
I'm comfortable with cops and soldiers having arms but not the entire civilization armed to the teeth walking around. As I see you are trained, disciplined and a decent person.
But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.........Argue at the bar, drunk, shop lifting, loud music, looking at my girl f, why are you looking at me, you are rude, road rage, I hate my professor, you ding my car, you took my spot, start race war.............BANG. BANG BANG...
I don't want to see people walking around with their guns strap at their shoulder or waist.

No...guns are made to save the life of the user...and as I have pointed out, the majority of guns are never fired at another human being...and yet they preserve not only the life of the owner but those they protect....

But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.

Look....I respect that you want to keep people safe....I just think you don't really have a clear picture of the reality of guns in the United States.

As to stupid people....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands..... and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013....have you thought about what those numbers actually mean?

And another set of numbers....there are currently over 13 million people carrying guns for protection...and again...only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013...... those numbers are amazing.....any other activity with those numbers would be considered statistically safe....

The stupid people were already carrying guns illegally in the 90s before normal people were able to carry guns....as more normal people started to carry guns...our gun accident rate went down....way down...not up.....

Our gun murder rate has gone down, not up as more Americans own and carry guns....which shows that your belief about guns in America is not accurate...especially about gun owners...

Are there stupid people..yes.....but they are also driving cars...and they kill more people in cars than they do carrying guns.....

And the gun murder rate....8,124 gun murders in 2014.....has gone down every year since the 90s....as more Americans carry and own guns......and those gun murders...the majority of those are committed by people breaking the law with guns...violent career criminals who are murdering other career criminals....

So, you are right to be concerned...but your concerns are not based on an accurate understanding of gun ownership in the United States....

In short. This what you are telling me:
1. Ignore all these murders, crimes and deaths related to guns.
2. Sell and armed every citizens in America so NRA makes more money.
3. Ignore the gun epidemic in this country. Let just rock and roll.
4. Let people walk around in places like malls, churches, schools, sports event etc....with guns strap on their shoulder or waist. Good lord....just like the Wild West.
On the side......As I previously mentioned to you from separate thread. I have total of 28 LEO working part timers as security guards but none of them support what you're telling me.
And so are the ICE and DEA officials that I known personally. None of them. I have yet to find one person that support you except here on the Internet.

and my experience is just the opposite..the Leo's I know all support people carrying guns...they tell me they won't be there in time in almost all violent crime situations....so you are in your own until they arrive...minutes too late....[/QUOTE]

That is impossible Guy...... come on.
1. In all kinds of shooting scenarios. Last thing a LEO want to encounter is an armed civilians on top of the what is going on.
2. Just about every gun shooting scenarios there is a massive panic and confusions.
3. When cops arrive at the scene... How is the cop able to determine who is the bad guy when people start shooting all over the place? A bad guy can easily say I'm the good guy bad guy over there.
This is one of the main reason a LEO don't want to see armed civilians walking around.[/QUOTE]


The last thing a LEO wants is to walk into a gun free killing zone with 14 dead people because they were unarmed.....he would much rather they be saved as the attack is happening...which saves lives.....

 

[2aguy]

You've obviouly never handled a gun, gone hunting, or have any idea what you are talking about. A gun, in essence, is a machine, all machines are suseptable to mechanical failure. The human factor also plays a part, it used to be that many hunters would be out in the woods with ordinary clothing on, and a hanky hanging out of their pocket. They looked a bit like a deer running away, to someone who was inexperienced or flat out careless. This sort of thing still happens, people mistake other people for animals, it's not intentional. It is possible, that a person could be unseen by a fellow hunter (sitting in a low-lying area such as a ditch), when the first hunter shoots, the bullet could travel through (or miss entirely) their intended target, continue traveling until it strikes the second hunter in the low-lying area. To say that all gun deaths are intentional is both naive and foolishly dishonest.

Distorted. A machines are made especially for one thing only. Like your car..... is made to transport people.
Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people. Whoever pull the gun maybe it be accident or intentional. It is made for one thing.......to kill people. Try again.

Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people.

Wrong.....absolutely wrong...a gun is designed to preserve the life of the user....and most of the time it does that without ever being fired...so no...it isn't designed to kill people..it is designed to fire a projectile......and in most self defense it doesn't have to do that to carry out it's primary function..preserving the life of the user.....

Most cops never fire their guns...but the presence of their gun keeps the peace....

Most soldiers never fire their guns....but the presence of armed soldiers keeps the peace...

Most civilians attacked by violent criminals never fire their guns....and the criminal runs away or is captured and no shots are fired.

From pro gun.........that is acceptable. However you sliced it Guy.... guns are made for killing.
I'm comfortable with cops and soldiers having arms but not the entire civilization armed to the teeth walking around. As I see you are trained, disciplined and a decent person.
But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.........Argue at the bar, drunk, shop lifting, loud music, looking at my girl f, why are you looking at me, you are rude, road rage, I hate my professor, you ding my car, you took my spot, start race war.............BANG. BANG BANG...
I don't want to see people walking around with their guns strap at their shoulder or waist.

No...guns are made to save the life of the user...and as I have pointed out, the majority of guns are never fired at another human being...and yet they preserve not only the life of the owner but those they protect....

But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.

Look....I respect that you want to keep people safe....I just think you don't really have a clear picture of the reality of guns in the United States.

As to stupid people....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands..... and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013....have you thought about what those numbers actually mean?

And another set of numbers....there are currently over 13 million people carrying guns for protection...and again...only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013...... those numbers are amazing.....any other activity with those numbers would be considered statistically safe....

The stupid people were already carrying guns illegally in the 90s before normal people were able to carry guns....as more normal people started to carry guns...our gun accident rate went down....way down...not up.....

Our gun murder rate has gone down, not up as more Americans own and carry guns....which shows that your belief about guns in America is not accurate...especially about gun owners...

Are there stupid people..yes.....but they are also driving cars...and they kill more people in cars than they do carrying guns.....

And the gun murder rate....8,124 gun murders in 2014.....has gone down every year since the 90s....as more Americans carry and own guns......and those gun murders...the majority of those are committed by people breaking the law with guns...violent career criminals who are murdering other career criminals....

So, you are right to be concerned...but your concerns are not based on an accurate understanding of gun ownership in the United States....

In short. This what you are telling me:
1. Ignore all these murders, crimes and deaths related to guns.
2. Sell and armed every citizens in America so NRA makes more money.
3. Ignore the gun epidemic in this country. Let just rock and roll.
4. Let people walk around in places like malls, churches, schools, sports event etc....with guns strap on their shoulder or waist. Good lord....just like the Wild West.
On the side......As I previously mentioned to you from separate thread. I have total of 28 LEO working part timers as security guards but none of them support what you're telling me.
And so are the ICE and DEA officials that I known personally. None of them. I have yet to find one person that support you except here on the Internet.

and my experience is just the opposite..the Leo's I know all support people carrying guns...they tell me they won't be there in time in almost all violent crime situations....so you are in your own until they arrive...minutes too late....[/QUOTE]

That is impossible Guy...... come on.
1. In all kinds of shooting scenarios. Last thing a LEO want to encounter is an armed civilians on top of the what is going on.
2. Just about every gun shooting scenarios there is a massive panic and confusions.
3. When cops arrive at the scene... How is the cop able to determine who is the bad guy when people start shooting all over the place? A bad guy can easily say I'm the good guy bad guy over there.
This is one of the main reason a LEO don't want to see armed civilians walking around.[/QUOTE]


Here you go...just one example...and the beauty of this one....the concealed carry permit holder is black...holding a gun on a white car jacker as the police roll up....and no one gets shot....he puts his gun down, the police shake his hand....do your research....

You actually see the camera of the cops as they walk up to the situation...and the black guy with the gun waves to them......and then at the 2:50 mark....the cop shakes the guys hand....


The cops arrive around the 2:30 mark on the video......

 

[charwin95]

Distorted. A machines are made especially for one thing only. Like your car..... is made to transport people.
Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people. Whoever pull the gun maybe it be accident or intentional. It is made for one thing.......to kill people. Try again.

Gun is only made for one thing........ to kill people.

Wrong.....absolutely wrong...a gun is designed to preserve the life of the user....and most of the time it does that without ever being fired...so no...it isn't designed to kill people..it is designed to fire a projectile......and in most self defense it doesn't have to do that to carry out it's primary function..preserving the life of the user.....

Most cops never fire their guns...but the presence of their gun keeps the peace....

Most soldiers never fire their guns....but the presence of armed soldiers keeps the peace...

Most civilians attacked by violent criminals never fire their guns....and the criminal runs away or is captured and no shots are fired.

From pro gun.........that is acceptable. However you sliced it Guy.... guns are made for killing.
I'm comfortable with cops and soldiers having arms but not the entire civilization armed to the teeth walking around. As I see you are trained, disciplined and a decent person.
But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.........Argue at the bar, drunk, shop lifting, loud music, looking at my girl f, why are you looking at me, you are rude, road rage, I hate my professor, you ding my car, you took my spot, start race war.............BANG. BANG BANG...
I don't want to see people walking around with their guns strap at their shoulder or waist.

No...guns are made to save the life of the user...and as I have pointed out, the majority of guns are never fired at another human being...and yet they preserve not only the life of the owner but those they protect....

But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.

Look....I respect that you want to keep people safe....I just think you don't really have a clear picture of the reality of guns in the United States.

As to stupid people....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands..... and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013....have you thought about what those numbers actually mean?

And another set of numbers....there are currently over 13 million people carrying guns for protection...and again...only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013...... those numbers are amazing.....any other activity with those numbers would be considered statistically safe....

The stupid people were already carrying guns illegally in the 90s before normal people were able to carry guns....as more normal people started to carry guns...our gun accident rate went down....way down...not up.....

Our gun murder rate has gone down, not up as more Americans own and carry guns....which shows that your belief about guns in America is not accurate...especially about gun owners...

Are there stupid people..yes.....but they are also driving cars...and they kill more people in cars than they do carrying guns.....

And the gun murder rate....8,124 gun murders in 2014.....has gone down every year since the 90s....as more Americans carry and own guns......and those gun murders...the majority of those are committed by people breaking the law with guns...violent career criminals who are murdering other career criminals....

So, you are right to be concerned...but your concerns are not based on an accurate understanding of gun ownership in the United States....

In short. This what you are telling me:
1. Ignore all these murders, crimes and deaths related to guns.
2. Sell and armed every citizens in America so NRA makes more money.
3. Ignore the gun epidemic in this country. Let just rock and roll.
4. Let people walk around in places like malls, churches, schools, sports event etc....with guns strap on their shoulder or waist. Good lord....just like the Wild West.
On the side......As I previously mentioned to you from separate thread. I have total of 28 LEO working part timers as security guards but none of them support what you're telling me.
And so are the ICE and DEA officials that I known personally. None of them. I have yet to find one person that support you except here on the Internet.

and my experience is just the opposite..the Leo's I know all support people carrying guns...they tell me they won't be there in time in almost all violent crime situations....so you are in your own until they arrive...minutes too late....

That is impossible Guy...... come on.
1. In all kinds of shooting scenarios. Last thing a LEO want to encounter is an armed civilians on top of the what is going on.
2. Just about every gun shooting scenarios there is a massive panic and confusions.
3. When cops arrive at the scene... How is the cop able to determine who is the bad guy when people start shooting all over the place? A bad guy can easily say I'm the good guy bad guy over there.
This is one of the main reason a LEO don't want to see armed civilians walking around.[/QUOTE]


Here you go...just one example...and the beauty of this one....the concealed carry permit holder is black...holding a gun on a white car jacker as the police roll up....and no one gets shot....he puts his gun down, the police shake his hand....do your research....

You actually see the camera of the cops as they walk up to the situation...and the black guy with the gun waves to them......and then at the 2:50 mark....the cop shakes the guys hand....


The cops arrive around the 2:30 mark on the video......
[/QUOTE]

Your example is from a guy with concealed carrying permit. Meaning he was at least have basic training. Correct? How many illegal gun owners and criminals that do not CC permits. Do you expect them to behave the same way?

 

[2aguy]

Wrong.....absolutely wrong...a gun is designed to preserve the life of the user....and most of the time it does that without ever being fired...so no...it isn't designed to kill people..it is designed to fire a projectile......and in most self defense it doesn't have to do that to carry out it's primary function..preserving the life of the user.....

Most cops never fire their guns...but the presence of their gun keeps the peace....

Most soldiers never fire their guns....but the presence of armed soldiers keeps the peace...

Most civilians attacked by violent criminals never fire their guns....and the criminal runs away or is captured and no shots are fired.

From pro gun.........that is acceptable. However you sliced it Guy.... guns are made for killing.
I'm comfortable with cops and soldiers having arms but not the entire civilization armed to the teeth walking around. As I see you are trained, disciplined and a decent person.
But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.........Argue at the bar, drunk, shop lifting, loud music, looking at my girl f, why are you looking at me, you are rude, road rage, I hate my professor, you ding my car, you took my spot, start race war.............BANG. BANG BANG...
I don't want to see people walking around with their guns strap at their shoulder or waist.

No...guns are made to save the life of the user...and as I have pointed out, the majority of guns are never fired at another human being...and yet they preserve not only the life of the owner but those they protect....

But how many idiot and stupid people are out there that will just make decisions on their own start shooting? Just imagine if everyone are armed with everyone walking around guns strap to their shoulder or waist just like the Wild West.

Look....I respect that you want to keep people safe....I just think you don't really have a clear picture of the reality of guns in the United States.

As to stupid people....

There are over 320 million guns in private hands..... and only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013....have you thought about what those numbers actually mean?

And another set of numbers....there are currently over 13 million people carrying guns for protection...and again...only 505 accidental gun deaths in 2013...... those numbers are amazing.....any other activity with those numbers would be considered statistically safe....

The stupid people were already carrying guns illegally in the 90s before normal people were able to carry guns....as more normal people started to carry guns...our gun accident rate went down....way down...not up.....

Our gun murder rate has gone down, not up as more Americans own and carry guns....which shows that your belief about guns in America is not accurate...especially about gun owners...

Are there stupid people..yes.....but they are also driving cars...and they kill more people in cars than they do carrying guns.....

And the gun murder rate....8,124 gun murders in 2014.....has gone down every year since the 90s....as more Americans carry and own guns......and those gun murders...the majority of those are committed by people breaking the law with guns...violent career criminals who are murdering other career criminals....

So, you are right to be concerned...but your concerns are not based on an accurate understanding of gun ownership in the United States....

In short. This what you are telling me:
1. Ignore all these murders, crimes and deaths related to guns.
2. Sell and armed every citizens in America so NRA makes more money.
3. Ignore the gun epidemic in this country. Let just rock and roll.
4. Let people walk around in places like malls, churches, schools, sports event etc....with guns strap on their shoulder or waist. Good lord....just like the Wild West.
On the side......As I previously mentioned to you from separate thread. I have total of 28 LEO working part timers as security guards but none of them support what you're telling me.
And so are the ICE and DEA officials that I known personally. None of them. I have yet to find one person that support you except here on the Internet.

and my experience is just the opposite..the Leo's I know all support people carrying guns...they tell me they won't be there in time in almost all violent crime situations....so you are in your own until they arrive...minutes too late....

That is impossible Guy...... come on.
1. In all kinds of shooting scenarios. Last thing a LEO want to encounter is an armed civilians on top of the what is going on.
2. Just about every gun shooting scenarios there is a massive panic and confusions.
3. When cops arrive at the scene... How is the cop able to determine who is the bad guy when people start shooting all over the place? A bad guy can easily say I'm the good guy bad guy over there.
This is one of the main reason a LEO don't want to see armed civilians walking around.

Here you go...just one example...and the beauty of this one....the concealed carry permit holder is black...holding a gun on a white car jacker as the police roll up....and no one gets shot....he puts his gun down, the police shake his hand....do your research....

You actually see the camera of the cops as they walk up to the situation...and the black guy with the gun waves to them......and then at the 2:50 mark....the cop shakes the guys hand....


The cops arrive around the 2:30 mark on the video......
[/QUOTE]

Your example is from a guy with concealed carrying permit. Meaning he was at least have basic training. Correct? How many illegal gun owners and criminals that do not CC permits. Do you expect them to behave the same way?[/QUOTE]


No actually. There are many states that do not require any training.....What training he had is not known. Again, read some of the stories.....there are people all over the country with little to no training using guns to stop violent criminals...and in the middle of that chaos...they act responsibly and with calm and control.

Try "Thearmedcitizen" or gunssavelives...they actually break down self defense by state...and gun type.....

If you read these stories you will get a more accurate picture of what happens....I know that Americans are constantly bombarded by the tragedies that occur...but those stories make the news because they are more interesting.....and there is footage of the crime scene...this one with the concealed carrier is rare in that video captured it.....

It would be a big help if you checked out those sites and read about actual self defense...try Massad Ayooob's sites...he is a firearm instructor and expert witness...he talks about actual crimnal cases he has been involved in....

Criminals are already carrying guns illegally with no training at all....and when they are stopped by police at traffic stops or other encounters, they need to be sent to jail for 15-20 years.....

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

It was a gun free zone and only one daughter had a gun there…..the mass shooter's wife…..

I was listening to Dan and Amy here in Chicago and they played an interview with the father of a woman at the party….he is a county employee and would have been there but it was his day off….

His grown daughter, however, was actually there, she also works for the county…

When the shooting started she was in the bathroom and she called her father about what was happening….

He broke down and cried during the interview as he said that his daughter was in deadly danger and he couldn't do anything to help her………

I know one thing he can do for the next time……..encourage her to get training and get a concealed carry permit…..she was in the bathroom, and had the killers come into the bathroom she could have fought back……if they had come into the bathroom, with her being unarmed…she would have been killed…

Answer the poll

Really?

She would have been dead with a gun because of what they were wearing was BODY ARMOR, so how would she have been able to stop the killers?

It is like the retards screaming after the Oregon Campus shooting about had the students and staff been armed they could have stopped the lone gunman ( which was a terroristic act ) but failed to understand that the Campus was actually not a Gun Free Zone under Oregon law and one student was carrying at the time outside the halls and did not get involved because of the fact he was afraid of being shot by the police.

So as you dream of the day arming every citizen across this nation the fact still remains her having a gun would have done very little except get her killed, and she most likely would have not engaged anyway seeing the fact they ( the shooters ) were in body armor which meant she would had to be trained to be a sniper to take them out and had the proper weapon on her to do so, and I know for a fact her gun most likely would have been a .25 caliber and nothing larger!

The chances of someone with enough training, skill, and calm in a full-on ******* panic to kill either of these two assholes is off the charts. It's the same for the Paris theater. Could they get off a shot or two, maybe, before they were absolutely dead instead of maybe dead, yeah. Great solution. Hey, heavily armed people in body-armor, look at me playing John Wayne, the last thing they ever did.

The more likely outcome of this will be they jerk in Texas who shot the carjacking victim in the head, did not render assistance, grabbed the evidence, and fled before the cops arrived.

I actually own two shotguns within my home, and one is for protection of the estate and the other is for hunting. If I am in a mass shooting scenario the reality is the only thing I can do is duck, cover, and try to get others to safety if I can.

If a shooter has me pinned in, and I have no other way to get out of the way of being shot, then yes I will fire as many rounds I can and pray that one will strike the bastard dead, but with what was going on in California the reality is I would have not killed them and just got myself killed.

Too many people wish to be Bruce Willis in Die Hard but the reality is many of them would shit and piss their pants when confronted with a actual scenario like what happen in California.

Most that call for more guns have never been in a violent confrontation when a firearm was involved, and never been shot by one, and I have had both happen to me, and damn well know the reality of it all and you have split second to think or die and I am still alive with a scar to remind me of that event daily.

The only thing most Americans know about guns is what they see in the movies. Bruce Willis at that party would have been dead like the rest of them, who never saw it coming if they were lucky that is.

the only thing most gun grabbers know about gun owners is what they dream up from their dislike of people in general...and then add to that with their basic fear of guns...

because not one thing they believe about guns and gun owners is accurate.....not from what the anti gunners here post....

So are you going to claim the young lady in question had been armed would have been able to kill those two in body armor?

Really?

If you are a gun owner then you need to educate yourself because the reality is you would have done nothing but most likely had killed more innocent people than save them.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

It was a gun free zone and only one daughter had a gun there…..the mass shooter's wife…..

I was listening to Dan and Amy here in Chicago and they played an interview with the father of a woman at the party….he is a county employee and would have been there but it was his day off….

His grown daughter, however, was actually there, she also works for the county…

When the shooting started she was in the bathroom and she called her father about what was happening….

He broke down and cried during the interview as he said that his daughter was in deadly danger and he couldn't do anything to help her………

I know one thing he can do for the next time……..encourage her to get training and get a concealed carry permit…..she was in the bathroom, and had the killers come into the bathroom she could have fought back……if they had come into the bathroom, with her being unarmed…she would have been killed…

Answer the poll

Really?

She would have been dead with a gun because of what they were wearing was BODY ARMOR, so how would she have been able to stop the killers?

It is like the retards screaming after the Oregon Campus shooting about had the students and staff been armed they could have stopped the lone gunman ( which was a terroristic act ) but failed to understand that the Campus was actually not a Gun Free Zone under Oregon law and one student was carrying at the time outside the halls and did not get involved because of the fact he was afraid of being shot by the police.

So as you dream of the day arming every citizen across this nation the fact still remains her having a gun would have done very little except get her killed, and she most likely would have not engaged anyway seeing the fact they ( the shooters ) were in body armor which meant she would had to be trained to be a sniper to take them out and had the proper weapon on her to do so, and I know for a fact her gun most likely would have been a .25 caliber and nothing larger!

The chances of someone with enough training, skill, and calm in a full-on ******* panic to kill either of these two assholes is off the charts. It's the same for the Paris theater. Could they get off a shot or two, maybe, before they were absolutely dead instead of maybe dead, yeah. Great solution. Hey, heavily armed people in body-armor, look at me playing John Wayne, the last thing they ever did.

The more likely outcome of this will be they jerk in Texas who shot the carjacking victim in the head, did not render assistance, grabbed the evidence, and fled before the cops arrived.

I actually own two shotguns within my home, and one is for protection of the estate and the other is for hunting. If I am in a mass shooting scenario the reality is the only thing I can do is duck, cover, and try to get others to safety if I can.

If a shooter has me pinned in, and I have no other way to get out of the way of being shot, then yes I will fire as many rounds I can and pray that one will strike the bastard dead, but with what was going on in California the reality is I would have not killed them and just got myself killed.

Too many people wish to be Bruce Willis in Die Hard but the reality is many of them would shit and piss their pants when confronted with a actual scenario like what happen in California.

Most that call for more guns have never been in a violent confrontation when a firearm was involved, and never been shot by one, and I have had both happen to me, and damn well know the reality of it all and you have split second to think or die and I am still alive with a scar to remind me of that event daily.

Look....in the cases,where a mass shooter stupidly attacks a place where there is a concealed carry permit holder, the gun owner stopped the attack and saved lives...you guys all think you know what other people would be capable of and you just don't.....

in most situations people will do what you say...get out......but in those actual cases where a shooter has run into a concealed carrier...they have either shot the killer or capture them for police.....

you should do some research into the actual events....your idea is not based on reality

Really?

A young lady sitting on the toilet calling her father in panic because of two armed killers rush in with body armor was going to stop those killers?

Really?

Really?

Really?

What movie did you see that in?

In real life that same young girl lack the training to stop those two individuals and would have gotten herself killed instead. In the real world that young lady would have most likely been carrying a .25 caliber firearm ( a purse gun ) and not the type of firearm needed to kill the individuals that stormed that building in California.

So yeah tell me to study something when the reality is against your moronic assertion had she been armed those killers would have never done those killings because the reality is they were wearing body armor and would have killed her in a split second.

Better yet try your theory the next time someone is attacking in full body gear, and you pull out your firearm and I bet you end up dead before you get one damn round off.

Damn why is it the Gung-Ho idiots believe if they walk into a fire fight and pull their guns everything will work as they envision?