Zone1 If You Want a Civil Discussion on Race...Take 2

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IM2

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Racism is not people of color talking about things that have been done to people of color by whites. Racism is not pointing out the harm policies crafted by whites in power has done. Racism is not just a bunch of slurs. Racism is not about trying to figure out what people are thinking. Racism is a behavior. A racist is a person exhibiting that behavior. It is an abusive behavior that causes tremendous psychological harm.

The study of the psychological damage caused by racism has been ignored and on top of that scarce due to the fact that most people who had been leaders in the field of psychology/sociology have been white. But in more recent time blacks/POC in both field have increased and they have initiated studies on the psychological/physiological damage caused by racism.

“Bryant-Davis and Ocampo (2005) noted similar courses of psychopathology between rape victims and victims of racism. Both events are an assault on the personhood and integrity of the victim. Similar to rape victims, race-related trauma victims may respond with disbelief, shock, or dissociation, which can prevent them from responding to the incident in a healthy manner. The victim may then feel shame and self-blame because they were unable to respond or defend themselves, which may lead to low self-concept and self-destructive behaviors. In the same study, a parallel was drawn between race-related trauma victims and victims of domestic violence. Both survivors are made to feel shame over allowing themselves to be victimized. For instance, someone who may have experienced a racist incident may be told that if they are polite, work hard, and/or dress in a certain way, they will not encounter racism. When these rules are followed yet racism persists, powerlessness, hyper vigilance, and other symptoms associated with PTSD may develop or worsen.”

Ryan C.T. DeLapp, MA, and Monnica T. Williams, Ph.D., “Proactively Coping With Racism, Getting back to our lives in the aftermath of racial violence in the media.”, July 18, 2016, www.psychologytoday,com

So try to imagine what it is like to feel like you have been raped or endure domestic violence every day of your life and nothing gets done about it. Instead every day you get told by people who are practicing the abuse that the abuse is not happening, or that you're pretending to be a victim because you need to in order to have a job or sense of self. Or that people are making it up to get rich and that people are telling you that you are a victim to make ypu dependent on them so you vote for members of that party. For people to actually believe this is lunacy, or rather, cognitive dissonance at the highest level.

On occasion, the emotional weight of racism can lead African Americans to engage in maladaptive coping, such as remaining in denial, engaging in substance use, aggression, self-blame – even in extreme cases suicide (i.e., Black Lives Matter activist Marshawn McCarrel) and terrorism (i.e., Dallas shooter Micah Xavier Johnson). These responses are harmful and lead to negative, long-term consequences.”

mal·a·dap·tive:
not providing adequate or appropriate adjustment to the environment or situation:



When white "conservatives" praise blacks like Clarence Tho,as, Candace Owens, Thomas Sowell, Herschel Walker, etc., they are praising blacks who practice maladaptive coping mechanisms. They are praised for remaining in denial and self blame for the conditions blacks face. White "conservatives are actively trying to pressure blacks into practicing maladaptive behavior and tell us how practicing that maladaptive behavior is a benefit to black people and examples of how we should take personal responsibility.

We read about black violence from whites. Yet aggression is one of the results of having to endure racism. It is another maladaptive behavior created by white racism. Maladaptive behavior caused by white racism can result in self-destructive behavior, such as substance abuse or hypersexuality.

When I say the root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism, it is due to continuing self education about the psychological/physiological effects of racism on people of color. In 2022 we must go beyond the simple minded bromides often hurled in these discussions from people on the right. When you start talking about the behavior of blacks or any other person of color, the psychological effects of race must be considered.

Because even the favorite minority of the right wing practices maladaptive coping as part of their culture. The Asian concept of Gaman, is basically internalized racism and that is a maladaptive coping mechanism. Butvwhite "conservatives" boast anf brag about how maladaptive behavior in others is great and fantastic.

So if we are going to have a civil conversation about race, a real look at the physical/psychological damage caused by racism instead of discounting racism then talking about somebody's culture. Because racism is the evidence of a cultural failure of one group and it ain't blacks, Hispanics, members of the First Nations, or Asians.
 
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If You Want a Civil Discussion on Race...Take 2​



Just for a change, how about we don't discuss it, civilly or otherwise?

Even a civil discussion on the topic will turn uncivil after a very short while.

How about, for a change, we discuss treating everyone based on their own individual merits and flaws and stop trying to categorize them by race, sex, religion, hair color, or shoe size?
 
Just for a change, how about we don't discuss it, civilly or otherwise?

Even a civil discussion on the topic will turn uncivil after a very short while.

How about, for a change, we discuss treating everyone based on their own individual merits and flaws and stop trying to categorize them by race, sex, religion, hair color, or shoe size?
No. How about we recognize the damage it causes, fix the damage and then people really can stop looking at it.
 
No. How about we recognize the damage it causes, fix the damage and then people really can stop looking at it.

But, will they stop looking at it?

Will there ever come a time where everyone is satisfied with the outcome and everyone feels compensated for whatever tragedies they've had in their personal life?

It's like that scene from "Jaws". One guy shows his scar, and the next guy has to show what he thinks is a bigger scar ... it never, ever ends.

 
Racism is not people of color talking about things that have been done to people of color by whites. Racism is not pointing out the harm policies crafted by whites in power has done. Racism is not just a bunch of slurs. Racism is not about trying to figure out what people are thinking. Racism is a behavior. A racist is a person exhibiting that behavior. It is an abusive behavior that causes tremendous psychological harm.

The study of the psychological damage caused by racism has been ignored and on top of that scarce due to the fact that most people who had been leaders in the field of psychology/sociology have been white. But in more recent time blacks/POC in both field have increased and they have initiated studies on the psychological/physiological damage caused by racism.

“Bryant-Davis and Ocampo (2005) noted similar courses of psychopathology between rape victims and victims of racism. Both events are an assault on the personhood and integrity of the victim. Similar to rape victims, race-related trauma victims may respond with disbelief, shock, or dissociation, which can prevent them from responding to the incident in a healthy manner. The victim may then feel shame and self-blame because they were unable to respond or defend themselves, which may lead to low self-concept and self-destructive behaviors. In the same study, a parallel was drawn between race-related trauma victims and victims of domestic violence. Both survivors are made to feel shame over allowing themselves to be victimized. For instance, someone who may have experienced a racist incident may be told that if they are polite, work hard, and/or dress in a certain way, they will not encounter racism. When these rules are followed yet racism persists, powerlessness, hyper vigilance, and other symptoms associated with PTSD may develop or worsen.”

Ryan C.T. DeLapp, MA, and Monnica T. Williams, Ph.D., “Proactively Coping With Racism, Getting back to our lives in the aftermath of racial violence in the media.”, July 18, 2016, www.psychologytoday,com

So try to imagine what it is like to feel like you have been raped or endure domestic violence every day of your life and nothing gets done about it. Instead every day you get told by people who are practicing the abuse that the abuse is not happening, or that you're pretending to be a victim because you need to in order to have a job or sense of self. Or that people are making it up to get rich and that people are telling you that you are a victim to make ypu dependent on them so you vote for members of that party. For people to actually believe this is lunacy, or rather, cognitive dissonance at the highest level.

On occasion, the emotional weight of racism can lead African Americans to engage in maladaptive coping, such as remaining in denial, engaging in substance use, aggression, self-blame – even in extreme cases suicide (i.e., Black Lives Matter activist Marshawn McCarrel) and terrorism (i.e., Dallas shooter Micah Xavier Johnson). These responses are harmful and lead to negative, long-term consequences.”

mal·a·dap·tive:
not providing adequate or appropriate adjustment to the environment or situation:



When white "conservatives" praise blacks like Clarence Tho,as, Candace Owens, Thomas Sowell, Herschel Walker, etc., they are praising blacks who practice maladaptive coping mechanisms. They are praised for remaining in denial and self blame for the conditions blacks face. White "conservatives are actively trying to pressure blacks into practicing maladaptive behavior and tell us how practicing that maladaptive behavior is a benefit to black people and examples of how we should take personal responsibility.

We read about black violence from whites. Yet aggression is one of the results of having to endure racism. It is another maladaptive behavior created by white racism. Maladaptive behavior caused by white racism can result in self-destructive behavior, such as substance abuse or hypersexuality.

When I say the root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism, it is due to continuing self education about the psychological/physiological effects of racism on people of color. In 2022 we must go beyond the simple minded bromides often hurled in these discussions from people on the right. When you start talking about the behavior of blacks or any other person of color, the psychological effects of race must be considered.

Because even the favorite minority of the right wing practices maladaptive coping as part of their culture. The Asian concept of Gaman, is basically internalied racism and that is a maladaptive coping mechanism. Butvwhite "conservatives" boast anf brag about how maladaptive behavior in others is great and fantastic.

So if we are going to have a civil conversation about race, a real look at the physical/psychological damage caused by racism instead of discounting racism then talking about somebody's culture. Because racism is the evidence of a cultural failure of one group and it ain't blacks, Hispanics, members of the First Nations, or Asians.
Not bad until you get to that last paragraph and release any blame for racism on the cultures of blacks, or other minorities. You will never sell that in a million years.
 
Just for a change, how about we don't discuss it, civilly or otherwise?

Even a civil discussion on the topic will turn uncivil after a very short while.

How about, for a change, we discuss treating everyone based on their own individual merits and flaws and stop trying to categorize them by race, sex, religion, hair color, or shoe size?
Until you start going into every thread by whites and tell them to do this, stop coming in mine.
 
Until you start going into every thread by whites and tell them to do this, stop coming in mine.

How do you tell who is white or black or red or yellow or a color that only bees can see in a chat room?
 
But, will they stop looking at it?

Will there ever come a time where everyone is satisfied with the outcome and everyone feels compensated for whatever tragedies they've had in their personal life?

It's like that scene from "Jaws". One guy shows his scar, and the next guy has to show what he thinks is a bigger scar ... it never, ever ends.


Yes. But those thinking like you have fed yourself a lie.

Look at your second sentence. It's bullshit. And your analogy doesn't even come close.

I have shown 300 years of programs and policies that provided whites with economic assistance at the exclusion of blacks, reparations for native American tribes, we all know Japanese got reparations, jewish reparations and you certainly don't want to be told the holocaust was in the past and doesn't matter now, but let somebody black say something and we have to get stuff like you are posting. Go work on your problem.
 
How do you tell who is white or black or red or yellow or a color that only bees can see in a chat room?
Your responses are pretty telling.
 
But, will they stop looking at it?

Will there ever come a time where everyone is satisfied with the outcome and everyone feels compensated for whatever tragedies they've had in their personal life?

It's like that scene from "Jaws". One guy shows his scar, and the next guy has to show what he thinks is a bigger scar ... it never, ever ends.


"What's that one?...don't tell me...Mother". :)
No..that..is the USS Indianapolis......silence.
 
IThomasSowellsFro aka IM2 has never wanted a discussion about race. All he has done over the years is repeat the same exact message over and over and over. Whitey Bad, Blacks are always victims, you owe us.

I am not Thomas. You conflate white racists for white people. All white people are not racists, I've said this countless times, the only whites having a problem are those like you. The facts of history are what they are deal with it.
 
Racism is not people of color talking about things that have been done to people of color by whites. Racism is not pointing out the harm policies crafted by whites in power has done. Racism is not just a bunch of slurs. Racism is not about trying to figure out what people are thinking. Racism is a behavior. A racist is a person exhibiting that behavior. It is an abusive behavior that causes tremendous psychological harm.

The study of the psychological damage caused by racism has been ignored and on top of that scarce due to the fact that most people who had been leaders in the field of psychology/sociology have been white. But in more recent time blacks/POC in both field have increased and they have initiated studies on the psychological/physiological damage caused by racism.

“Bryant-Davis and Ocampo (2005) noted similar courses of psychopathology between rape victims and victims of racism. Both events are an assault on the personhood and integrity of the victim. Similar to rape victims, race-related trauma victims may respond with disbelief, shock, or dissociation, which can prevent them from responding to the incident in a healthy manner. The victim may then feel shame and self-blame because they were unable to respond or defend themselves, which may lead to low self-concept and self-destructive behaviors. In the same study, a parallel was drawn between race-related trauma victims and victims of domestic violence. Both survivors are made to feel shame over allowing themselves to be victimized. For instance, someone who may have experienced a racist incident may be told that if they are polite, work hard, and/or dress in a certain way, they will not encounter racism. When these rules are followed yet racism persists, powerlessness, hyper vigilance, and other symptoms associated with PTSD may develop or worsen.”

Ryan C.T. DeLapp, MA, and Monnica T. Williams, Ph.D., “Proactively Coping With Racism, Getting back to our lives in the aftermath of racial violence in the media.”, July 18, 2016, www.psychologytoday,com

So try to imagine what it is like to feel like you have been raped or endure domestic violence every day of your life and nothing gets done about it. Instead every day you get told by people who are practicing the abuse that the abuse is not happening, or that you're pretending to be a victim because you need to in order to have a job or sense of self. Or that people are making it up to get rich and that people are telling you that you are a victim to make ypu dependent on them so you vote for members of that party. For people to actually believe this is lunacy, or rather, cognitive dissonance at the highest level.

On occasion, the emotional weight of racism can lead African Americans to engage in maladaptive coping, such as remaining in denial, engaging in substance use, aggression, self-blame – even in extreme cases suicide (i.e., Black Lives Matter activist Marshawn McCarrel) and terrorism (i.e., Dallas shooter Micah Xavier Johnson). These responses are harmful and lead to negative, long-term consequences.”

mal·a·dap·tive:
not providing adequate or appropriate adjustment to the environment or situation:



When white "conservatives" praise blacks like Clarence Tho,as, Candace Owens, Thomas Sowell, Herschel Walker, etc., they are praising blacks who practice maladaptive coping mechanisms. They are praised for remaining in denial and self blame for the conditions blacks face. White "conservatives are actively trying to pressure blacks into practicing maladaptive behavior and tell us how practicing that maladaptive behavior is a benefit to black people and examples of how we should take personal responsibility.

We read about black violence from whites. Yet aggression is one of the results of having to endure racism. It is another maladaptive behavior created by white racism. Maladaptive behavior caused by white racism can result in self-destructive behavior, such as substance abuse or hypersexuality.

When I say the root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism, it is due to continuing self education about the psychological/physiological effects of racism on people of color. In 2022 we must go beyond the simple minded bromides often hurled in these discussions from people on the right. When you start talking about the behavior of blacks or any other person of color, the psychological effects of race must be considered.

Because even the favorite minority of the right wing practices maladaptive coping as part of their culture. The Asian concept of Gaman, is basically internalied racism and that is a maladaptive coping mechanism. Butvwhite "conservatives" boast anf brag about how maladaptive behavior in others is great and fantastic.

So if we are going to have a civil conversation about race, a real look at the physical/psychological damage caused by racism instead of discounting racism then talking about somebody's culture. Because racism is the evidence of a cultural failure of one group and it ain't blacks, Hispanics, members of the First Nations, or Asians.
Public Service Post:

Correction to the ignorant OP:

Racism is the bigoted belief of a person that his or her race is somehow better than the people of some other race: it’s an ignorant belief based purely on race. It’s just that simple. The OP confusion is on display for all to see.

Helpful hint time. If you find yourself constantly denigrating members of another race, and making these grandiose sweeping generalizations about that race, you might be a racist.

Shhhhh. Keep that on the down low.
 
Not bad until you get to that last paragraph and release any blame for racism on the cultures of blacks, or other minorities. You will never sell that in a million years.
Look, the truth is what it is. White racism has caused the problems I presented. So white racism created whatever "culture" whites are blaming blacks for. This is not about sales, it is about truth. Without white racism, a lot of dysfunction would not be. And white racism has messed up the overall American culture.
 
You want a civil discussion on race?

Then start listening.
We've listened for 246 years. It's your turn to listen. Because your opinion is not based on fact or reality.
 
Look, the truth is what it is. White racism has caused the problems I presented. So white racism created whatever "culture" whites are blaming blacks for. This is not about sales, it is about truth. Without white racism, a lot of dysfunction would not be. And white racism has messed up the overall American culture.
Not denying, there is white racism. I am saying, black culture, even today is also a factor, and there is also black racism, and that is a factor, also. I have traveled in black neighborhoods when younger, with kind of a free pass, many years ago, when I was the only white guy on an all black spot weld crew. It was not uncommon me to be at one of their houses or one of them to be at mine, but no denying there were and are cultural differences. That was then. This is now. No way in hell I would enter that neighborhood in my vehicle alone. I would not have a prayer.
In example, I submit, I have been the intended victim of black on white crime twice, once in a black project neighborhood (though I don't make a good victim) a few years later, I was doing a delivery gig, in my pickup truck, back in the days of cash/check transactions, repeatedly being sent to deliver and pick up payment on a promotional thing being advertised on local popular radio station. On 4th visit to that project in about 3 hours, upon making delivery, receiving payment and getting back into my personal truck, the 4 man crew made their move, one from the left, two right and one stepping out in front, with a baseball bat. I realize what was happening, the two from the right were reaching in from the right window for the money bag and product, guy approaching right trying to get my attention with the "hey buddy, whatcha got" routine, guy in front approaching down middle of street with his bat. I burned rubber, slinging the guys reaching in, into a tangled heap in the street. Baseball bat guy ran toward the truck, bat raised as if that would stop a F-150 burning rubber. It didn't. He bounced off the hood, flying, landing on a Buick sideways across rear glass breaking it. I never slowed down and congratulated myself, never caring, the extent of injuries. Never went back to that neighborhood, either. I had nothing against the people of that neighborhood or I would not have been going in there, but the lawless culture, when it went into attack mode was more than I would tolerate. I am not the only one that has had these experiences, sometimes they turn out different. Other experience was an attempted assault, two black guys (1 from NY ghetto other from Chicago ghetto, both given choices between jail and joining the Army) wanted to throw me down some stairs because I was white, from TN, smaller, they were racists, and they thought they could. I was tipped off, by friends before coming in. Wanting to avoid a race riot in an AIT bay on base, I had them stay out of it. Ask what I was going to do, I said kill or cripple the first one and deal with the second as best I could. So I did my thing, when they jumped me a top of stairs. The lead guy flying, clearing all stairs into a block wall at the bottom, the second breaking my grip and retreating inside the hall leaving his severely injured partner in crime for cool. I was nice, though. I did what I could to stop the bleeding, while telling (while him barely conscious, me not wanting him to pass out before the ambulance, I call, arrived), if he said anything other than he tripped on the stairs, I would see him court-martialed serving times in a military prison, since there were witnesses overhearing their plan. I never had a bit of trouble out of either one, again. The injured didn't get out of the hospital for 3 days, after the concussion, blood loss and surgery to fix the compound fractured arm, never coming back to the company area.
To this day, not a racist, but untrusting as not trusting is good for my health and the security of myself and my family.
 
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