If you could start a country right now, what would it look like?

[Immanuel]

It would look like a small island, probably. Most of the other land masses are taken.

It will probably have trees on it, sand on the beach, and perhaps a volcano.

You forgot the most important ingredient... girls in bikinis. Girls that belong in bikinis.

Immie

 

[Jarhead]

Mine would be much like the US.

it would concentrate alot of its efforts on education though.

I would have it educate people so they could understand their constitution and how it worked for the people so no Money grubbing asssholes who want to confuse the people about what the constitution said and how it functioned to get them to vote against their own interests and in so doing rob the people blind.

thus your problem in my eyes TM.

Thge issue is not "lack of understanding of the constitution"

The issue is "diverse interpretations of the consitution" based on ideological sentiments.

You see, your answer demonstrates to me how you are an idealist not aware of why things are as they are.

But whatever works for you.

 

[hortysir]

If you could start a country right now, what would it look like?

A meat lovers pizza.....

Nothing wrong with hot cheesy goodness





To Immie,
FTR, I almost posted a pic of a babe in a bikini


My hunger won the argument

 

[Texanmike]

Our Current Constitution is fine IF we can get back to it.

Take this for example.

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

If we can return to the ACTUAL powers listed here in then a lot of the Governments over reach and Unconstitutional powers go away.

The United States Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

Our current Liberal masses claim this allows the Government to do just about anything it pleases.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

The argument being made is that somehow the supposed General Welfare clause ( of which there is none) allows the Government via the Congress to do anything at all as long as they just say " it is the general welfare of the Country".

First off it does not say that, secondly Congress KNOWS it does not say that.

NOT one of the many unconstitutional laws, institutions or powers Congress has created cite this supposed clause. No one IN Congress has ever made the argument that this clause even exists.

Further the Founding Fathers were clear. The Constitution is a LIMITING Document. Not a Document meant to grant unlimited Power to the Government. Rather to SPECIFICALLY limit it to narrow defined powers subject to Amendment for more power.

The MAIN culprit in the power grab is in fact this portion of the 8th.

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

The term Commerce has been so stretched as to be useless as a word in regard Congressional Power to create, pay for and run any enterprise the Federal Government wants.

I agree with a lot of what you said but with one important distinction. The Constitution is not a "limiting" document, it is a "granting document". The states did not seek to "limit" the authority of the federal government, they sought to grant the federal government enumerated powers. The net result of our statements is pretty much the same but the mindset that your freedom/responsibility come from the government and are limited presumes that the federal government had some authority to begin with when in fact the people and the states actually only granted a few powers to the federal government.

Mike

 

[Truthmatters]

Mine would be much like the US.

it would concentrate alot of its efforts on education though.

I would have it educate people so they could understand their constitution and how it worked for the people so no Money grubbing asssholes who want to confuse the people about what the constitution said and how it functioned to get them to vote against their own interests and in so doing rob the people blind.

thus your problem in my eyes TM.

Thge issue is not "lack of understanding of the constitution"

The issue is "diverse interpretations of the consitution" based on ideological sentiments.

You see, your answer demonstrates to me how you are an idealist not aware of why things are as they are.

But whatever works for you.

So you claim only YOUR interpitation of the constitution is valid?


Thank you for helping prove why we need a better educated populace

 

[Two Thumbs]

A meat lovers pizza.....

Nothing wrong with hot cheesy goodness





To Immie,
FTR, I almost posted a pic of a babe in a bikini


My hunger won the argument

You chose a 'meat lovers' over hot chicks in bikinis.

*coughcough*

 

[Texanmike]

Mine would be much like the US.

it would concentrate alot of its efforts on education though.

I would have it educate people so they could understand their constitution and how it worked for the people so no Money grubbing asssholes who want to confuse the people about what the constitution said and how it functioned to get them to vote against their own interests and in so doing rob the people blind.

thus your problem in my eyes TM.

Thge issue is not "lack of understanding of the constitution"

The issue is "diverse interpretations of the consitution" based on ideological sentiments.

You see, your answer demonstrates to me how you are an idealist not aware of why things are as they are.

But whatever works for you.

So you claim only YOUR interpitation of the constitution is valid?


Thank you for helping prove why we need a better educated populace

The thing about the Constitution is it is kind of like a User's manual. It doesn't really need an interpretation. Well it didn't to begin with. Most of the interpretation came from the supreme court (if you go back and read opinions clearly personal preference usually plays a part). For example, the whole general welfare clause. It is not an open inventation for the federal government to write any laws it wants... it grants the federal government the authority to levy taxes but in order to write a law power needs to be enumerated. If that were not the case, if it were a blank check on authority provided it was for the general welfare then why would they have bothered to enumerate powers if they meant for congress to have unlimited powers? Even if you read what it says...

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

Throughout Article I section 8 the captialized "To" which follows a semi-colon begins a new power. "to pay the debts and provide for common Defense and general Welfare of the United States" is not a specific power. It is the purpose for which the congress may lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises. Without the second part the of the statement there is no limitation put on the authority to lay and collect taxes.

You must critically analyze the way the text was written including the specific grammar patterns used throughout the document because they often indicate the parts of speech and the relationship between objects in the document. If you look further down (the 15th enumeratd power) you will see that it is organized in much the same way. The Congress is authorized to "To provide for calling forth the Militia" but the founders put a limitation on it "to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;" The language, punctuation and capitalization falls in line with the first enumerated power. The reason this is so important is that clearly Congress is not authorized to call a Militia for any purpose (they cannot declare that they are callling a Miliita to come take over your home... there is a limit on tha power). It also does not say that the Congress shall have the authority to execute the laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;" To the people who claim that congress has the power to act for the "general welfare" would you also argue that they have the authority to execute laws in this country? Of course not, they have a very clearly defined role in our government. We have an entire branch of the governmetn to execute the laws in the country.

The similiarity in structure between the first enumerated power, to tax and the 15th enumerated power, to provide for the calling of a Militia, along with the general structure of every enumerated power makes clear the intention of article I, section 8 but in order to remove all doubt they left a closing line.

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

They can make all laws that are necessary and proper to carry into execution the foregoing powers. Not to make all laws necessary and proper.... and not to execute the fore going powers... just to make laws.

There is very little room for interpretation in the constitution unless someone desires to stretch the intent to fit a certain agenda.

The Constitution is meant to be read, not interpreted. It is an instructional manual, not creative writing.
Mike

 

[Jarhead]

Mine would be much like the US.

it would concentrate alot of its efforts on education though.

I would have it educate people so they could understand their constitution and how it worked for the people so no Money grubbing asssholes who want to confuse the people about what the constitution said and how it functioned to get them to vote against their own interests and in so doing rob the people blind.

thus your problem in my eyes TM.

Thge issue is not "lack of understanding of the constitution"

The issue is "diverse interpretations of the consitution" based on ideological sentiments.

You see, your answer demonstrates to me how you are an idealist not aware of why things are as they are.

But whatever works for you.

So you claim only YOUR interpitation of the constitution is valid?


Thank you for helping prove why we need a better educated populace

THAT is how you interpreted what I said?

Holy fuck...you truly are a fucking idiot.

 

[Truthmatters]

no its what you said.

"diverse interpretations of the consitution"


The constitution is not YOURS alone to interpret.

That is what the tea party is largely based on.

A right wing fringes crazy ideas of what the constitution says.

 

[Kooshdakhaa]

In my country we'd modify a Shakespearean quote as our motto:

First thing we do is kill all the lawyers and liberals!

You do understand that you'd be killing some of your own children, right?

 

[Jarhead]

no its what you said.

"diverse interpretations of the consitution"


The constitution is not YOURS alone to interpret.

That is what the tea party is largely based on.

A right wing fringes crazy ideas of what the constitution says.

I mean....really???

My saying that there are DIVERSE INTEPRETATIONS OF THE CONSTITUTION

is the same as me saying

'"AND MINE IS THE ONLY INTERPETATION THAT IS VALID" ??????

I mean....how the fuck do you function on a dialy basis with such a poor ablity to intepret what is being said to you?

I mean.....really?

You most certainly CANT be serious...I mean....no fucking way....

 

[hortysir]

A meat lovers pizza.....

Nothing wrong with hot cheesy goodness





To Immie,
FTR, I almost posted a pic of a babe in a bikini


My hunger won the argument

You chose a 'meat lovers' over hot chicks in bikinis.

*coughcough*

Well, , I have a woman for the bikini and nookie......... I'm still hungry for pizza though






On topic, finally for me, because I'm growing tired of the bullshit.

I don't feel the need to start a new country.
I already live in the greatest one in the world.
Regardless of any marks in our history or difficulties we may be facing more recently.

I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.


Except, maybe, chocolate-bikini-pizza-land. (not necessarily in that order, TwoThumbs)

 

[uscitizen]

If you could start a country right now, what would it look like?


It would be a dictatorship with myself in charge.

 

[yidnar]

Depends on who I would have dominion over.

if history is any indicator ....you would have dominion over starving, illiterate,,disease ridden cannibals!!!

 

[rdean]

Just start out with no Republicans.

 

[hortysir]

Just start out with no Republicans.

How do we build a Republic with out them?

Is there a better form of government?

 

[Texanmike]

On topic, finally for me, because I'm growing tired of the bullshit.

I don't feel the need to start a new country.
I already live in the greatest one in the world.
Regardless of any marks in our history or difficulties we may be facing more recently.

I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.


Except, maybe, chocolate-bikini-pizza-land. (not necessarily in that order, TwoThumbs)

In that case, how do you fix the one we have?

Mike

 

[hortysir]

On topic, finally for me, because I'm growing tired of the bullshit.

I don't feel the need to start a new country.
I already live in the greatest one in the world.
Regardless of any marks in our history or difficulties we may be facing more recently.

I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.


Except, maybe, chocolate-bikini-pizza-land. (not necessarily in that order, TwoThumbs)

In that case, how do you fix the one we have?

Mike

Same way as the last 225 years......

Elect people smarter than me.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Nothing wrong with hot cheesy goodness





To Immie,
FTR, I almost posted a pic of a babe in a bikini


My hunger won the argument

You chose a 'meat lovers' over hot chicks in bikinis.

*coughcough*

Well, , I have a woman for the bikini and nookie......... I'm still hungry for pizza though






On topic, finally for me, because I'm growing tired of the bullshit.

I don't feel the need to start a new country.
I already live in the greatest one in the world.
Regardless of any marks in our history or difficulties we may be facing more recently.

I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.


Except, maybe, chocolate-bikini-pizza-land. (not necessarily in that order, TwoThumbs)

A country where women have to wear chocolate bikinis while they bring me pizza?

I'm so there.

 

[Texanmike]

On topic, finally for me, because I'm growing tired of the bullshit.

I don't feel the need to start a new country.
I already live in the greatest one in the world.
Regardless of any marks in our history or difficulties we may be facing more recently.

I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.


Except, maybe, chocolate-bikini-pizza-land. (not necessarily in that order, TwoThumbs)

In that case, how do you fix the one we have?

Mike

Same way as the last 225 years......

Elect people smarter than me.

Except that after 225 years aren't we getting to the point that it is hard to say that's working well?

Mike