If Ukraine loses the war and Russia occupies Ukraine, the US and Europe may not have a choice, but to go to war

[Deadstick]

Who told you that?
There are extreme resentments in the Polish government towards Germany - especially the present one - "officially" laying a compensation claim towards Germany - demanding US$ 8-10 TRILLION for war reparations. Just like the Turks are infatuated with restoring their Ottoman greatness - aka empire, so are the Polish politicians and elite circles with restoring their former Polish-Lithuanian Empire aka Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

Well i agree with some of that, but i never hear Polish politicians attacking Germany 24/7 as they do with Russia, i don't know about the average Polish person, it's the Politicians that are toxic.

 

[Deadstick]

What makes you think so? aside from the inherent clashes on this Forum between Biden and Trump followers, blaming single individuals?
Or Trump's well known and meaningless/empty election promises?

The NATO Eastward Expansion and almost all warmongering NATO expeditions were undertaken and initiated by Republicans - aka the Bush family and friends and carried on by the Obama administration. That Afghanistan was a lost cause - everyone was aware of that - Trump simply picked up the existing resentments amongst the society and it's elites and declared the end of US participation in Afghanistan - thus automatically ending the NATO/ISAF chapter.

A single President e.g. Biden or a Trump does not decide upon the US economic and warmongering strategy - but the existing elites and their circles.

Trump was an absolute incapable and moronic US president - who only worked and was/is interested in his own bank account and ego. He backed away from every scenario that spelled war - e.g. N-Korea, Russia-Ukraine and Iran. Therefore factually enhancing those four to continue their path. He also thought that getting into a trade-war with China would make the USA (actually himself) look as being a winner. Factually he only screwed up the global economy - with everyone suffering.

If Trump manages to get reelected - it will be only due to him having to compromise with democratic elites and their circles and especially with those being termed presently as RINO's. (Afterall the entire world, now knows his true charater and non-existing governing capabilities) And the foremost interest of the USA (absolutely independent of being presided by a democrat or republican president) isn't a Pax Romana - but to keep controlling the globe, with whatever necessary means deemed necessary.

Good post, but this is bigger than Republicans and Democrats, or Biden and Trump, as you say they are not really in control of anything, it's the establishment or what we call the Deep state, those two parties when it comes down to it are two cheeks of the same backside, it's the same in the UK with the Conservatives and Labour, that's why the whole Deep State in the UK came together to take Corbyn down, he was a real threat to the status quo, i believe if they couldn't have stopped him any other way his life was under threat, these are the people we are dealing with.

 

[Deadstick]

You war mongers love your death and killing, as long as it isn’t you.

We are not the world police, I remember back in the day the real liberals protested death and war, now you are all for sacrificing our children, husbands, and wives in a war with no plan out.

Indeed, what happened to those anti war Imperialism Democrats? they seem to have turned into Fascists.

 

[JoeB131]

Let's not get hysterical. That's the mistake the West made in 2008, when Putin invaded Georgia, and made again in 2014 when Putin invaded Ukraine, and it is, of course the mistake the World made when Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, and now you want to make that same mistake again, now?

Putin isn't Hitler. He doesn't have nearly the professionalism or effectiveness of his military, if the best he can do is hold few enclaves predominately populated by Russians.

The only reason why this is a concern is Putin has nukes, that he might use if his back is against the wall. Our best hope is that he dies soon and that whoever succeeds him has the good sense to not throw good rubles after bad.

 

[JoeB131]

We agree that there is no logical reason for us to be sending billions in arms and treasure to Ukraine. Thank you.

Russia is not our primary enemy. By far, China is a massive and growing problem, and not President Biden has pushed Russia into the arms of China.

What a disaster!

China isn't our enemy.
frankly, if China REALLY wanted to screw with us, they could just demand we pay back all the money we owe them.

 

[Mac-7]

What's bad about that? Doesn't create or recreate have a positive connotation?

Do you expect me to dignify that with a response?

 

[Mac-7]

Ukraine will lose all right but here a Ukrainian woman's trying to explain why the war started.

You are a russian bot

 

[Mac-7]

Your problem is with some others you believe your own propaganda, there is zero evidence Putin wants to bring the Soviet Union back, and the Man is the elected President of Russia, it's called Democracy.

Putin was not elected dictator of Ukraine

Its a sovereign country that he is trying to overrun with military force

 

[hadit]

Zelensky: Ukrainian loss could force US to choose between ‘collapse of NATO’ or war

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Thursday that a loss to Russia could ultimately force the U.S. to choose between the “collapse of NATO” or going to war. “If Ukraine would lose, if Russi…

thehill.com

I know it is scary, but that may be the only choice left. Putin is not going to stop at Ukraine, if he occupies the country.

Imagine, if you will, a world in which a Republican president is the first in decades to start no new military hostilities while the democrats are begging for war.

 

[Markle]

China isn't our enemy.
frankly, if China REALLY wanted to screw with us, they could just demand we pay back all the money we owe them.

 

[Deadstick]

Putin was not elected dictator of Ukraine

Its a sovereign country that he is trying to overrun with military force

He was elected President of the Russian Federation, and Ukraine has not been sovereign since at least the 2014 Western instigated Coup, it's a US puppet and Dictatorship.

 

[Deadstick]

NATO and the collective West already are at war with Russia.

There will come a time i believe when Russia goes on a massive offensive, there are already signs something like that could start, it's reported the Russians have a 100k troops 900 tanks and over 500 artillery systems ready to roll up North in the Lugansk area.

 

[JohnDB]

I think we shouldn’t get ahead of things and try to figure out what exactly could be agreed to in the case of a cease fire or eventual peace treaty. But a lasting peace would surely allow for Black Sea navigation rights for both sides, no matter the status of Crimea. Odessa would continue as Ukraine’s main port, airlines would be allowed to fly again out of Kiev and other Ukrainian cities, etc.

A real peace treaty, assuming there was one, might call for an “eventual” internationally observed referendum for Crimea. Russia would have to be in terrible shape to allow one that would offer alternatives like a return to Ukraine, or independence, but it should be noted that they did overwhelmingly win the referendums held back in 2014. Crimea had always voted overwhelmingly for the pro-Russian parties before Maidan. The Crimean economy needs a return of tourists. Water supplies to Crimea could be guaranteed by Ukraine as a trade-off for other territories returned to Ukraine.

But all this is premature, and could only work when all sides are exhausted, stalemated and willing to talk seriously about a cease fire that can last more than a few weeks, or “land for peace.”

Those "referendums" you are referring to did have massive voting irregularities and outright fraud. Most due to illegal immigration of Russian Nationalists sent to cause trouble. The true gendrational residents called them out regularly but due to "issues" stemming from the newish government these problems went unaddressed until it resulted in fighting.

Kinda like these neighborhoods in America where Middle Eastern people move in and declare that sharia law supercedes American law.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Your problem is with some others you believe your own propaganda, there is zero evidence Putin wants to bring the Soviet Union back, and the Man is the elected President of Russia, it's called Democracy.

You are a rusbot. There is no doubt that Putin sees himself as the force for Russian restoration of the old empire.

Either he withdraws from Ukraine or he dies.

There are no other viable outcomes.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Do you expect me to dignify that with a response?

Am I supposed to lose sleep if some *** who has long since lost dignity and decency doesn't response? If an American starts blabbering about democracy, constitution or freedom, sure as hell he's a deviant of some kind.

 

[JohnDB]

You are a rusbot. There is no doubt that Putin sees himself as the force for Russian restoration of the old empire.

Either he withdraws from Ukraine or he dies.

There are no other viable outcomes.

I'm thinking that with the last 100k Russian Soldiers added to the theater to take Kharkiv....it's Russia's last push. And Putin's fate along with them.

AFU is still having trouble doing large scale coordinated fighting offensives.

I don't know how they are keeping Poland out of this fight.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Poland has been promised part of western Belarus in the future.

I am amazed that it has not taken it. Belarus would role right over.

 

[JohnDB]

Poland has been promised part of western Belarus in the future.

I am amazed that it has not taken it. Belarus would role right over.

Syria and Iran and Chechnya and Albania also....

A destroyed Russia (which is coming) is going to have some real fallout of problems.
Just saying....I remember 30 years ago when USSR collapsed....it was extremely rough then. All those nuclear weapons and no soldiers guarding them because they hadn't been paid in over 6 months and all savings were worthless.

 

[Kruska]

Well i agree with some of that, but i never hear Polish politicians attacking Germany 24/7 as they do with Russia, i don't know about the average Polish person, it's the Politicians that are toxic.

Since Germany, presently isn't militarily attacking e.g. France or the Czech Republic - naturally the Polish political circles/elites are in no need to constantly point fingers at Germany.
Off course politicians are politicians and people are people - however politicians usually influence or direct a populations mindset.

As for your Deep state statement - not sure how you exactly envisage this "construct".

From my personal experience there are three main groups - Financial/ Industry and Politicians - there is no secret circle where some e.g. 50 powerful people meet at secret locations to discuss how to screw the population or any one else. Those three main groups are however interconnected via their daily business.

The driving force, naturally are Finance and Industry - using $ and political blackmail to influence Politicians.
Politicians then hopefully introduce respective laws that favor the Financial and Industrial groups. LGBTq isn't about politics in regards to human rights (that's just the selling argument) - but simply a consumer group - that once established, naturally creates it's own additional market and additionally provides politicians with side jobs in whatever respective LGBTq functions.
Politicians amongst themselves are using $, promotions and thousands of side jobs (e.g. a seat in one of many of those Ukraine commissions) and coalition promises in order to further their own influence within parties and their own personal $ and ego agenda.

No one needs a "secret circle" since these three automatically run this game, driven by their personal greed and ego. In extreme cases politicians make use of their "intelligence services" manipulating them additionally, to go into actions.

All countries face this issue - whilst democracy makes it far more easier for everyone - autocratic countries are more resistant to influences from "non-authorized" institutions.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Poland has been promised part of western Belarus in the future.

I am amazed that it has not taken it. Belarus would role right over.

Do you ever come to? I bet it's fun to live on a cloud in a fantasy world but don't you have bills to pay or chores to do? Reality bites sometimes.