If this is true, we are in trouble...

[Tehon]

Its true for my family. Me and the wife are in college but I am skeptical its going to do anything for me other than leave me with a shit ton of debt I have no intention of paying back.

I was under the impression that student loan debt is unforgivable.

Right now it is....my credit is already shot so I don't care what it does to my credit...my first goal will be to afford a life for my family...IF I have the money to pay on some student loans I will if not then hell with them....

/-----/ "IF I have the money to pay on some student loans I will if not then hell with them"
What if your employer said IF we have the money to pay Odium his salary we will if not then hell with him?

As if that never happens.

/----/ Never happened to me.

Not being able or willing to see things past one's own needs is a huge problem in America.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Not being able or willing to see things past one's own needs is a huge problem in America.

As is ignoring the past failings of Communism and the deaths it has caused.

 

[gipper]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

All of the above is why Trump won.
The middle class have not only been ignored by ALL of Washington, but indeed have been sabotaged by the same.
Both sides represent corporate and market interest far and away more than us.
And when I say why Trump won, he won because he was not "just another politician" and his message resonated with everyday people.

Agreed. Many life long D voters voted Trump. For this, their party leaders and the MSM has demonized them. Not smart to demonize some of your voter base.

To be fair, the choice between a warmongering establishment elitist crook and a reality show real estate mogul, was an easy one most of us.

 

[Tehon]

Not being able or willing to see things past one's own needs is a huge problem in America.

As is ignoring the past failings of Communism and the deaths it has caused.

I don't advocate for any system like what has failed in the past.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Not being able or willing to see things past one's own needs is a huge problem in America.

As is ignoring the past failings of Communism and the deaths it has caused.

I don't advocate for any system like what has failed in the past.

Oh yeah, it'll be different this time!

 

[gipper]

I was under the impression that student loan debt is unforgivable.

Right now it is....my credit is already shot so I don't care what it does to my credit...my first goal will be to afford a life for my family...IF I have the money to pay on some student loans I will if not then hell with them....

/-----/ "IF I have the money to pay on some student loans I will if not then hell with them"
What if your employer said IF we have the money to pay Odium his salary we will if not then hell with him?

As if that never happens.

/----/ Never happened to me.

Not being able or willing to see things past one's own needs is a huge problem in America.

I can’t agree. I think many Americans are clueless about what is needed to improve things. I suspect this is because they have been duped by the State and MSM, into believing things that go against their best interests, but do enrich and empower the ruling class.

 

[Cellblock2429]

I was under the impression that student loan debt is unforgivable.

Right now it is....my credit is already shot so I don't care what it does to my credit...my first goal will be to afford a life for my family...IF I have the money to pay on some student loans I will if not then hell with them....

/-----/ "IF I have the money to pay on some student loans I will if not then hell with them"
What if your employer said IF we have the money to pay Odium his salary we will if not then hell with him?

As if that never happens.

/----/ Never happened to me.

Not being able or willing to see things past one's own needs is a huge problem in America.

/----/ More of an issue with democRATs base who line up for free stuff. Republicans are more concerned with the welfare of the nation as a whole.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

The problem is Baby-Boomers f*cked up America, and keep coming up with more of the "Same Solutions" that "Caused the issues"

My generation is more educated, the productivity is up, the cost of getting educated is more, cost of healthcare is up, and yet we're making less money in comparison to your generation had.

If it's broken, you DO FIX IT, you don't break it more, and more.

Everyone SHOULD want better for their kids, just some are either too dumb, or too apathetic to do better for their kids.

So how do you "fix" the problem of high college costs, place a government limit on what they can charge?

What caused the problem is that manual labor has less value than it did before mostly because of automation. Because of that, kids can't get out of school and make a good enough living to buy a house and support a family. The only way to do that is to have a higher education.

The alternative to that is trade school. You won't make as much as somebody with a college degree and you may have to work with your hands, but you also don't have the college bills either.

Automation increases productivity, and thus more production, and therefor WEALTH created.

That wealth was never seen, because of Illegals, because of outsourcing, because of monopolies laying people off, and raising prices.

This is CRAPitalist America, and it's even worse than Soviet Russia.

At least in Soviet Russia they didn't funnel all the jobs into foreigners hands who despise them.

I don't see how we're not going to "NATURALLY" collapse in the near future, if we don't end up killing each other in the streets first, and therefor "ARTIFICIALLY" collapse.

I'm glad I'll be off this planet by then; at least out of the workforce. I wouldn't want to be a person in the future with no aptitude to earn a higher education and try to make it on manual labor alone.

Millennials earn 20% less than Babyboomers did at the same age, Millennials have a net-worth 50% less than Babyboomers did at the same age.
(Of course adjusting for inflation AKA Real Wages)

This is startling, and shows the system that we have isn't working.

That can be attributed to a lot of things. For instance perhaps you read the conversation between Manonthestreet and I. Right now our industry needs over 30,000 more drivers that they can't find. They are turning to foreigners to take these jobs Americans won't do. And I can tell you some of those are pretty good paying jobs if you're willing to do the work.

So I think attitude has something to do with it as well. As a baby boomer myself, I can testify several times I had more than one job, or a job that I worked on Saturday as well. At one time I had three jobs. I'm no hero because several of my friends did the same thing. In fact one very close friend works at the company I do. He's been working two full-time jobs for over 30 years now.

You don't see that kind of effort to get ahead out of the millennials as you did in our generation. When we were younger all we thought about was money. How to make more, how to get a better job, work or hours was no hurdle for us.

The real incomes have declined for the whole nation.

We should really dump work abled welfare recipients into work illegals would otherwise do.

I have seen White Millennials work hard at the Feed store I long worked at.

The thing is too many left for college.

None the less the youngsters filled a niche there & still do.

 

[bullwinkle]

Under that line of thinking, government should pay our house or rental insurance, our car insurance, life insurance, appliance, lawn and garden equipment insurance.

regulate....not pay ...big dif Ray

After all, according to you, the federal government is now constitutionally obligated so no American ever gets screwed. I would love to know where that clause is in the document.

General welfare clause - Wikipedia

But we are running at FULL EMPLOYMENT, where are the BIG income increases for the lower 70% of American workers?

In the 1%er's coffers....

You haven't said how it is that they are raping you.

Do you think that you should be in control of all of that?

we're being told so....

The Chamber of Commerce wants them to keep coming for cheap labor.......and increased profits.......This was made even clearer when the Koch Brothers were recently demanding more Amnesty and migrant labor or threatening to stop paying politicians.

I am not seeing that.

I worked 2 jobs AND volunteered 24 hrs per week on an ambulance, no days off, and on the rigs, not even holidays off

30 yrs brother.....lot of stuff i'm looking to forget!

The system is fine, without crony capitalism.

The government enriches the extreme wealthy with all sorts of goodies and sweet heart deal. It is the American Way.

/——/ Here’s some proof: A chart shows how everything has changed since Trump became president

Great post, sparky! Don't stop making us see ourselves. We need it!

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

The problem is Baby-Boomers f*cked up America, and keep coming up with more of the "Same Solutions" that "Caused the issues"

My generation is more educated, the productivity is up, the cost of getting educated is more, cost of healthcare is up, and yet we're making less money in comparison to your generation had.

If it's broken, you DO FIX IT, you don't break it more, and more.

Everyone SHOULD want better for their kids, just some are either too dumb, or too apathetic to do better for their kids.

So how do you "fix" the problem of high college costs, place a government limit on what they can charge?

What caused the problem is that manual labor has less value than it did before mostly because of automation. Because of that, kids can't get out of school and make a good enough living to buy a house and support a family. The only way to do that is to have a higher education.

The alternative to that is trade school. You won't make as much as somebody with a college degree and you may have to work with your hands, but you also don't have the college bills either.

Automation increases productivity, and thus more production, and therefor WEALTH created.

That wealth was never seen, because of Illegals, because of outsourcing, because of monopolies laying people off, and raising prices.

This is CRAPitalist America, and it's even worse than Soviet Russia.

At least in Soviet Russia they didn't funnel all the jobs into foreigners hands who despise them.

I don't see how we're not going to "NATURALLY" collapse in the near future, if we don't end up killing each other in the streets first, and therefor "ARTIFICIALLY" collapse.

I'm glad I'll be off this planet by then; at least out of the workforce. I wouldn't want to be a person in the future with no aptitude to earn a higher education and try to make it on manual labor alone.

Millennials earn 20% less than Babyboomers did at the same age, Millennials have a net-worth 50% less than Babyboomers did at the same age.
(Of course adjusting for inflation AKA Real Wages)

This is startling, and shows the system that we have isn't working.

It's not the system, it's the politicians. They voted themselves the keys to the country between Carter and Reagan. Notice the decline began around then, as did the price hike for medical care.


The system is fine, without crony capitalism.



Hang them sumbitches! All of them that voted to be above the law and immune from insider trading laws and legal "lobbying".


Lobbying is bribery and they are criminals subverting citizens' representation in government.

That's bullshit! Grr!

How do you know that it is not the system?

Considering we did not become very Capitalist untill after WW2 I would say it is the likely culprit.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Not being able or willing to see things past one's own needs is a huge problem in America.

As is ignoring the past failings of Communism and the deaths it has caused.

Communism did cause stagnant wages that often did not keep up with prices.

Sounds familiar alright.

Communists went to war & were paranoid about enemies.

Sounds familiar alright.

Communists however had almost no immigration.

Sounds unfamiliar alright.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Not being able or willing to see things past one's own needs is a huge problem in America.

As is ignoring the past failings of Communism and the deaths it has caused.

I don't advocate for any system like what has failed in the past.

The hybrid system works the best.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

The U.S.A is JUST LIKE Orwell's 1984 when it comes to "Politics"

In Orwell's 1984, they say 2 + 2 = 5.
They drilled it into their heads enough, and that became the truth.

That is the reality of America on politics.

You are told that Capitalism built America, or we were always a Capitalist nation, that's not true.
The U.S.A was hardly Capitalist between 1886 - 1945, and NOT Capitalist before 1886, and VERY Capitalist just after WW2.

You are told that Democrats are Liberal Leftists, and Republicans are Right-Wingers.
Not true either.

The terms Left-Right come from the French Revolution.

The Leftists were Capitalists for more Liberalism, and rights, and the Right-Wingers were the Monarchist Authoritarian Right for the traditional Authoritarian controls over society.

Furthermore, Right-Wingers supporting Capitalism, and Freedom, while complaining about "Social Liberalism" makes no sense.

Truth is, the real Right-Wing IS AUTHORITARIAN, they micro-manage social Conservative values.

Then there's a ton of Republicans who think high Taxes = Socialism to pay for programs.

North Korea is Socialism in it's pure form, and they actually have low taxes, in fact nearly no taxes.

/----/ NK imposes no taxes because the Gubmint owns everything. You can only tax people who actually earn a wage and conduct business.

True enough but it proves taxes aren't about Socialism.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Truth is, the real Right-Wing IS AUTHORITARIAN, they micro-manage social Conservative values.

Then there's a ton of Republicans who think high Taxes = Socialism to pay for programs.

North Korea is Socialism in it's pure form, and they actually have low taxes, in fact nearly no taxes.

But that's somewhat offset by the fact that they have shoot to kill orders for anyone trying to leave & go somewhere that does have taxes.
But you probably find that acceptable.

North Korea is a great failure of Communism.

 

[Taz]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Americans complain too much.

 

[gipper]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Americans complain too much.

Only because the ruling class has so F’ed up everything.

 

[Taz]

Truth is, the real Right-Wing IS AUTHORITARIAN, they micro-manage social Conservative values.

Then there's a ton of Republicans who think high Taxes = Socialism to pay for programs.

North Korea is Socialism in it's pure form, and they actually have low taxes, in fact nearly no taxes.

But that's somewhat offset by the fact that they have shoot to kill orders for anyone trying to leave & go somewhere that does have taxes.
But you probably find that acceptable.

North Korea is a great failure of Communism.

So was Poland.

 

[Cellblock2429]

The U.S.A is JUST LIKE Orwell's 1984 when it comes to "Politics"

In Orwell's 1984, they say 2 + 2 = 5.
They drilled it into their heads enough, and that became the truth.

That is the reality of America on politics.

You are told that Capitalism built America, or we were always a Capitalist nation, that's not true.
The U.S.A was hardly Capitalist between 1886 - 1945, and NOT Capitalist before 1886, and VERY Capitalist just after WW2.

You are told that Democrats are Liberal Leftists, and Republicans are Right-Wingers.
Not true either.

The terms Left-Right come from the French Revolution.

The Leftists were Capitalists for more Liberalism, and rights, and the Right-Wingers were the Monarchist Authoritarian Right for the traditional Authoritarian controls over society.

Furthermore, Right-Wingers supporting Capitalism, and Freedom, while complaining about "Social Liberalism" makes no sense.

Truth is, the real Right-Wing IS AUTHORITARIAN, they micro-manage social Conservative values.

Then there's a ton of Republicans who think high Taxes = Socialism to pay for programs.

North Korea is Socialism in it's pure form, and they actually have low taxes, in fact nearly no taxes.

/----/ NK imposes no taxes because the Gubmint owns everything. You can only tax people who actually earn a wage and conduct business.

True enough but it proves taxes aren't about Socialism.

/----/ It's 100% taxation when the Gubmint controls 100% of everything.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

This stuff has been true for a long time

Americans do not save
Do not like to save

Yeah it is all the fault of poor and middle class. Government, establishment, political parties, capitalism, the ruling class are blameless.

LMFAO!

The government establishment, political parties, capitalism, the ruling class never made me spend more than I make
The government establishment, political parties, capitalism, the ruling class never stopped me from saving money

Stop blaming everyone else for your failures

Ok.

1. The ruling class certainly bares responsibility for a number of crappy polities that have made saving harder.

2. Americans are too consumerist and spend to much and save too little.

3. I believe that most number's whining about Americans' poor savings, often don't track 401k, nor pensions.

4. Banks and credit cards are far too predatory and need to be regulated to stop that shit.

No such thing as a predatory credit card. No one is making people spend more than they make.

and now with all the cards that offer cash back people can actually make money using a credit card. We have a card that give 2% back on all our business expenses we charge and we have a personal one that does the same. We get paid over 10K a year in tax free money just for using those cards and paying off the balance every month

And I will say that we have offered a 401 with a match for over 10 years now and this is the very first year we have 100% participation.

Offer a 100% match for the first 3% of income and a 50% match for the next 2% for a maximum match of 4% of income

So to max out the match people have to contribute 5% of their income and most of my employees only save 3%

I try to tell them they are losing money on the match but they say all they want do do is 3%

I recently heard a bank commercial encouraging people to take out a loan on their house to take a vacation.


No responsible lender should do that. That bank is predatory.

I don’t think so. To me, predatory is offering Reverse Mortgages. Unfortunately, older people can get into trouble as they age, and banks who advertise reverse mortgages are taking advantage of them.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Marion Morrison]

So how do you "fix" the problem of high college costs, place a government limit on what they can charge?

What caused the problem is that manual labor has less value than it did before mostly because of automation. Because of that, kids can't get out of school and make a good enough living to buy a house and support a family. The only way to do that is to have a higher education.

The alternative to that is trade school. You won't make as much as somebody with a college degree and you may have to work with your hands, but you also don't have the college bills either.

Automation increases productivity, and thus more production, and therefor WEALTH created.

That wealth was never seen, because of Illegals, because of outsourcing, because of monopolies laying people off, and raising prices.

This is CRAPitalist America, and it's even worse than Soviet Russia.

At least in Soviet Russia they didn't funnel all the jobs into foreigners hands who despise them.

I don't see how we're not going to "NATURALLY" collapse in the near future, if we don't end up killing each other in the streets first, and therefor "ARTIFICIALLY" collapse.

I'm glad I'll be off this planet by then; at least out of the workforce. I wouldn't want to be a person in the future with no aptitude to earn a higher education and try to make it on manual labor alone.

Millennials earn 20% less than Babyboomers did at the same age, Millennials have a net-worth 50% less than Babyboomers did at the same age.
(Of course adjusting for inflation AKA Real Wages)

This is startling, and shows the system that we have isn't working.

It's not the system, it's the politicians. They voted themselves the keys to the country between Carter and Reagan. Notice the decline began around then, as did the price hike for medical care.


The system is fine, without crony capitalism.



Hang them sumbitches! All of them that voted to be above the law and immune from insider trading laws and legal "lobbying".


Lobbying is bribery and they are criminals subverting citizens' representation in government.

That's bullshit! Grr!

How do you know that it is not the system?

Considering we did not become very Capitalist untill after WW2 I would say it is the likely culprit.

You need to read your history a little better. Why did Teddy Roosevelt have to bust trusts if we "weren't capitalistic" before ww2?