If Spending is Stimulative. Why do Liberals always want to cut Defense?

[Sallow]

Because that's their kneejerk response to cutting social spending.

And because defence spending is also descretionary spending thus subject to cuts.

Coincidently, I just posted a couple videos of an economist who believes that stimulating the economy by building up military spending is the BEST kind of stimulus spending for the economy.

RICHARD KOO.

You right wingers who love the military but hate Keynesian spending ought to take the time to listen to him.

You might discover that you have been supporting Keynesian economic policies all along and didn't relly know it!.

I think the Keynesian Model recomends that the government spend in slow economic times and create a surplus during good economic times. Our government, under both parties, has only created the debt part of the equation.

If the Keynesian Model is compared to breathing, we have been exhaling only and nver inhaling.

Our country has NEVER followed Keynesian economics. All we do is spend too much. That is not Keynseian.

TRUE Keyensian economics states that during bad times, govt spending increases to make up for private sector failures while it decreases during good times allowing for a surplus to be built up allowing the private sector to grow back. If this actually was applied, it'd be better than what's been happening currently which is expanding government in BOTH good and bad times and protecting government at all cost in all times and increasing govt spending at varying rates.

The key issue is that progressives have corrupted even this lousy model of economics with a proven track record of failure, and made it worse. And why is it a failed model? Because it demands a behavior impossible to politicians and bureaucrats who want permanent security of employment, not temporary jobs like they should have.

Actually..for the most part, you are right about this. Politicians generally refuse to raise taxes and tamp down spending during times to economic plenty..in order to keep their jobs.

Which is why the Keynesian model doesn't work as well as it should.

 

[Richard-H]

Defense spending has been the backbone of the U.S. economy since WWII.

Economically, it's really 'socialism with a middle-man".

Government, through contracting and sub-contracting, creates millions of jobs and pays for it all with tax payer dollars.

The middle-men, cronies of the politicians, make a fortune from the tax payers while everything is really paid for by tax dollars.

This is the great lie of American capitalism. Free-market capitalism only survives when underwritten by socialist defense spending.

How did Reagan get us out of the recession of the early 1980s? He started 'Star Wars', bollooned the deficit and stimulated the economy with socialist defense spending.

Yet the vast majority of item produced by the defense industry is never used - it's placed in armouries until it's obsolete. The real advantage to society is that those recieving defense industry 'welfare', are made to hold jobs and behave respectably. Regular welfare recipients often degenerate - nothing to do except watch T.V., have sex, and take drugs.

It irks liberals when conservatives insist on cutting spending on all non-defense items while never allowing defense spending to be cut.

Other industries are not allowed to feed off the taxpayer and can't create jobs whenever the governement issues a contract. So everyone outside of the military industrial complex is subject to the brutalities of capitalism.

 

[The T]

First thing Statists need to learn is Article 1, Section 8 Of the Constitution.

 

[Charles_Main]

They also claim the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan caused the current economic crisis.

Yeah, that one is a funny one.

2 Wars that in total have cost just over 1 Trillion in 10 years are the cause of all of our Problems.

Liberal Math at it's finest.

well you are leaving out its all borrowed money and the interest....

But i can understand why you would. It hurts your cause.

Are you claiming we were not borrowing money in WWII? Or are you claiming that Obama is not saying we should spend 450 Billion dollars more right now. OF BORROWED MONEY.

 

[Charles_Main]

Libs are always saying we need to cut defense spending, Yet they also say the Government can create Jobs and Stimulate the Economy with spending.

Well, What is Defense spending? Sure some of it is paying the troops, and other stuff, However the single Biggest portion of Defense spending. Is spent on Things, Things like Bullets, Bombs, Planes, and Trucks, Armor Upgrades, MRE's, Etc Etc. The Vast Majority of these things are supplied by US defense contracting Companies, that Employe Literally Hundreds of thousands of American Workers.

If Spending Federal Dollars to Build a road is "Stimulative" Then it is damn sure Stimulative when the Government spends money to, Buy Bullets, or Fuel Air Planes, or Build a ship, or a plane.

Hell if you want to get real Technical even the Money they spend paying the troops, is stimulative. I mean didn't they tell us Food Stamps and Unemployment are stimulative? If those things are, then surely a GI's Pay check is as well.

So why do Liberals want to cause the Lay Offs of Thousands of American workers, in US defense Contracting Companies?

The thing about spending on the military is that it's very short term stimulus and more a one way waste of taxes.
.

Complete Bull shit. Spending on the Military is much more stimulative and long term than the Spending Obama wants to do. It puts money in the coffers of US private Sector Companies, that make the stuff the Military uses.

You guys look real Funny on this one. Defending the Spending the Obama want's to do, then trying to explain why spending on Defense is not Stimulative.

To funny indeed.

 

[Sallow]

Yeah, that one is a funny one.

2 Wars that in total have cost just over 1 Trillion in 10 years are the cause of all of our Problems.

Liberal Math at it's finest.

well you are leaving out its all borrowed money and the interest....

But i can understand why you would. It hurts your cause.

Are you claiming we were not borrowing money in WWII? Or are you claiming that Obama is not saying we should spend 450 Billion dollars more right now. OF BORROWED MONEY.

FDR didn't cut taxes during WWII. Additionally the country issued war bonds to help pay down the debt.

It's astonishing the amount of history that gets forgotten around here.

 

[Charles_Main]

Libs are always saying we need to cut defense spending, Yet they also say the Government can create Jobs and Stimulate the Economy with spending.

Well, What is Defense spending? Sure some of it is paying the troops, and other stuff, However the single Biggest portion of Defense spending. Is spent on Things, Things like Bullets, Bombs, Planes, and Trucks, Armor Upgrades, MRE's, Etc Etc. The Vast Majority of these things are supplied by US defense contracting Companies, that Employe Literally Hundreds of thousands of American Workers.

If Spending Federal Dollars to Build a road is "Stimulative" Then it is damn sure Stimulative when the Government spends money to, Buy Bullets, or Fuel Air Planes, or Build a ship, or a plane.

Hell if you want to get real Technical even the Money they spend paying the troops, is stimulative. I mean didn't they tell us Food Stamps and Unemployment are stimulative? If those things are, then surely a GI's Pay check is as well.

So why do Liberals want to cause the Lay Offs of Thousands of American workers, in US defense Contracting Companies?

Are you admitting that spending is stimulative?

I have never claimed it wasn't. What I have said is spending on Roads, and building Projects is very short term. While spending on goods and Services provided by Private Sector Companies is much more long term stimulative in nature.

 

[Sallow]

Libs are always saying we need to cut defense spending, Yet they also say the Government can create Jobs and Stimulate the Economy with spending.

Well, What is Defense spending? Sure some of it is paying the troops, and other stuff, However the single Biggest portion of Defense spending. Is spent on Things, Things like Bullets, Bombs, Planes, and Trucks, Armor Upgrades, MRE's, Etc Etc. The Vast Majority of these things are supplied by US defense contracting Companies, that Employe Literally Hundreds of thousands of American Workers.

If Spending Federal Dollars to Build a road is "Stimulative" Then it is damn sure Stimulative when the Government spends money to, Buy Bullets, or Fuel Air Planes, or Build a ship, or a plane.

Hell if you want to get real Technical even the Money they spend paying the troops, is stimulative. I mean didn't they tell us Food Stamps and Unemployment are stimulative? If those things are, then surely a GI's Pay check is as well.

So why do Liberals want to cause the Lay Offs of Thousands of American workers, in US defense Contracting Companies?

The thing about spending on the military is that it's very short term stimulus and more a one way waste of taxes.
.

Complete Bull shit. Spending on the Military is much more stimulative and long term than the Spending Obama wants to do. It puts money in the coffers of US private Sector Companies, that make the stuff the Military uses.

You guys look real Funny on this one. Defending the Spending the Obama want's to do, then trying to explain why spending on Defense is not Stimulative.

To funny indeed.

You cut the post by 90% and didn't address any of it.

N-O. Military spending is NOT stimulative. It's like heroin.

You feel good..but it's a negative overall.

 

[Charles_Main]

Libs are always saying we need to cut defense spending, Yet they also say the Government can create Jobs and Stimulate the Economy with spending.

Well, What is Defense spending? Sure some of it is paying the troops, and other stuff, However the single Biggest portion of Defense spending. Is spent on Things, Things like Bullets, Bombs, Planes, and Trucks, Armor Upgrades, MRE's, Etc Etc. The Vast Majority of these things are supplied by US defense contracting Companies, that Employe Literally Hundreds of thousands of American Workers.

If Spending Federal Dollars to Build a road is "Stimulative" Then it is damn sure Stimulative when the Government spends money to, Buy Bullets, or Fuel Air Planes, or Build a ship, or a plane.

Hell if you want to get real Technical even the Money they spend paying the troops, is stimulative. I mean didn't they tell us Food Stamps and Unemployment are stimulative? If those things are, then surely a GI's Pay check is as well.

So why do Liberals want to cause the Lay Offs of Thousands of American workers, in US defense Contracting Companies?

What are conservatives so scared of? They were TOLD about Bin Laden and didn't take it seriously.

They think weapons and money will keep them "safe". Well the money isn't theirs and they don't know how to use the weapons.

I hear the super rich are furious with Warren Buffet for suggesting their taxes should be raised.

Who's Money is it? Who Created the Wealth?

You highlight the problem. Libs like you actually believe this money is yours.

 

[Charles_Main]

You Libs can contort yourselves in everywhere imaginable to try and simaltaniously Defend Obama's Spending Plans, while telling us Spending on Defense is not Stimulative all you want.

Facts are Facts.

If the Debt Panel does not come to an agreement automatic Defense cuts go into effect. Totally 600 Billion dollars a year.

No matter how you guys spin it, or lie about it, if those Cuts happen. Thousands of Americans employed by Defense Contractors will lose their jobs. Period.

 

[The T]

Libs are always saying we need to cut defense spending, Yet they also say the Government can create Jobs and Stimulate the Economy with spending.

Well, What is Defense spending? Sure some of it is paying the troops, and other stuff, However the single Biggest portion of Defense spending. Is spent on Things, Things like Bullets, Bombs, Planes, and Trucks, Armor Upgrades, MRE's, Etc Etc. The Vast Majority of these things are supplied by US defense contracting Companies, that Employe Literally Hundreds of thousands of American Workers.

If Spending Federal Dollars to Build a road is "Stimulative" Then it is damn sure Stimulative when the Government spends money to, Buy Bullets, or Fuel Air Planes, or Build a ship, or a plane.

Hell if you want to get real Technical even the Money they spend paying the troops, is stimulative. I mean didn't they tell us Food Stamps and Unemployment are stimulative? If those things are, then surely a GI's Pay check is as well.

So why do Liberals want to cause the Lay Offs of Thousands of American workers, in US defense Contracting Companies?

What are conservatives so scared of? They were TOLD about Bin Laden and didn't take it seriously.

They think weapons and money will keep them "safe". Well the money isn't theirs and they don't know how to use the weapons.

I hear the super rich are furious with Warren Buffet for suggesting their taxes should be raised.

Who's Money is it? Who Created the Wealth?

You highlight the problem. Libs like you actually believe this money is yours.

And they are the same idiots that belive companies exist ONLY to give people jobs.

 

[Richard-H]

Libs are always saying we need to cut defense spending, Yet they also say the Government can create Jobs and Stimulate the Economy with spending.

Well, What is Defense spending? Sure some of it is paying the troops, and other stuff, However the single Biggest portion of Defense spending. Is spent on Things, Things like Bullets, Bombs, Planes, and Trucks, Armor Upgrades, MRE's, Etc Etc. The Vast Majority of these things are supplied by US defense contracting Companies, that Employe Literally Hundreds of thousands of American Workers.

If Spending Federal Dollars to Build a road is "Stimulative" Then it is damn sure Stimulative when the Government spends money to, Buy Bullets, or Fuel Air Planes, or Build a ship, or a plane.

Hell if you want to get real Technical even the Money they spend paying the troops, is stimulative. I mean didn't they tell us Food Stamps and Unemployment are stimulative? If those things are, then surely a GI's Pay check is as well.

So why do Liberals want to cause the Lay Offs of Thousands of American workers, in US defense Contracting Companies?

The thing about spending on the military is that it's very short term stimulus and more a one way waste of taxes.
.

Complete Bull shit. Spending on the Military is much more stimulative and long term than the Spending Obama wants to do. It puts money in the coffers of US private Sector Companies, that make the stuff the Military uses.

You guys look real Funny on this one. Defending the Spending the Obama want's to do, then trying to explain why spending on Defense is not Stimulative.

To funny indeed.

How do you consider defense contractors to be 'private sector' when they make their money from the government?

 

[Charles_Main]

The thing about spending on the military is that it's very short term stimulus and more a one way waste of taxes.
.

Complete Bull shit. Spending on the Military is much more stimulative and long term than the Spending Obama wants to do. It puts money in the coffers of US private Sector Companies, that make the stuff the Military uses.

You guys look real Funny on this one. Defending the Spending the Obama want's to do, then trying to explain why spending on Defense is not Stimulative.

To funny indeed.

You cut the post by 90% and didn't address any of it.

N-O. Military spending is NOT stimulative. It's like heroin.

You feel good..but it's a negative overall.

So, Building a road is stimulative, Giving a Solar company money is stimulative, but buying tanks and planes and guns from US companies is not stimulative.

Is that actually what you are trying to say? If so you are a bigger idiot than I thought.

 

[Charles_Main]

The thing about spending on the military is that it's very short term stimulus and more a one way waste of taxes.
.

Complete Bull shit. Spending on the Military is much more stimulative and long term than the Spending Obama wants to do. It puts money in the coffers of US private Sector Companies, that make the stuff the Military uses.

You guys look real Funny on this one. Defending the Spending the Obama want's to do, then trying to explain why spending on Defense is not Stimulative.

To funny indeed.

How do you consider defense contractors to be 'private sector' when they make their money from the government?[/QUOT

You do realize that most Defense contractors do not only do Government contracts right?

You do realize that there are Millions of People, Like my Father in Law, for example. Who work for shops that makes parts for cars, and parts of Hip Replacements, as well as parts of fighter Jets.

Millions.

you guys are reaching on this one. Nothing you can say will change the facts. If the spending Obama wants to do is Stimulative and good for the Economy, then so is Defense spending.

Only lying Partisan Hack would even try and deny it.

 

[Sallow]

Complete Bull shit. Spending on the Military is much more stimulative and long term than the Spending Obama wants to do. It puts money in the coffers of US private Sector Companies, that make the stuff the Military uses.

You guys look real Funny on this one. Defending the Spending the Obama want's to do, then trying to explain why spending on Defense is not Stimulative.

To funny indeed.

You cut the post by 90% and didn't address any of it.

N-O. Military spending is NOT stimulative. It's like heroin.

You feel good..but it's a negative overall.

So, Building a road is stimulative, Giving a Solar company money is stimulative, but buying tanks and planes and guns from US companies is not stimulative.

Is that actually what you are trying to say? If so you are a bigger idiot than I thought.

Stimulative to what extent?

Does military spending provide jobs? Sure. So in that..yes..it's stimulative.

Does anything that comes out of military spending benefit the country as a whole? For the most part..no. Seriously...how can the private sector or a citizen in general use a tank? It's not like a road..that gets used by both. And gets used to conduct business for both.

Sometimes you get an "unexpected" benefit like the internet or GPS..but those benefits are far to few to justify the spending.

We should be concentrating our efforts toward goals that don't involve killing other people or the total annihilation of the planet.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Libs are always saying we need to cut defense spending, Yet they also say the Government can create Jobs and Stimulate the Economy with spending.

Well, What is Defense spending? Sure some of it is paying the troops, and other stuff, However the single Biggest portion of Defense spending. Is spent on Things, Things like Bullets, Bombs, Planes, and Trucks, Armor Upgrades, MRE's, Etc Etc. The Vast Majority of these things are supplied by US defense contracting Companies, that Employe Literally Hundreds of thousands of American Workers.

If Spending Federal Dollars to Build a road is "Stimulative" Then it is damn sure Stimulative when the Government spends money to, Buy Bullets, or Fuel Air Planes, or Build a ship, or a plane.

Hell if you want to get real Technical even the Money they spend paying the troops, is stimulative. I mean didn't they tell us Food Stamps and Unemployment are stimulative? If those things are, then surely a GI's Pay check is as well.

So why do Liberals want to cause the Lay Offs of Thousands of American workers, in US defense Contracting Companies?

I think Sallow is doing a fine job educating you on this subject. I would just like to add that I don't know of any liberals who want to cut Defense and then not spend that money somewhere else. For example, Energy Independence or Education or Infrastructure. I think we can all agree that those areas have better long term benefits to the country than building a couple of jets that may or may not ever fly.

 

[Douger]

Libs are always saying we need to cut defense spending, Yet they also say the Government can create Jobs and Stimulate the Economy with spending.

Well, What is Defense spending? Sure some of it is paying the troops, and other stuff, However the single Biggest portion of Defense spending. Is spent on Things, Things like Bullets, Bombs, Planes, and Trucks, Armor Upgrades, MRE's, Etc Etc. The Vast Majority of these things are supplied by US defense contracting Companies, that Employe Literally Hundreds of thousands of American Workers.

If Spending Federal Dollars to Build a road is "Stimulative" Then it is damn sure Stimulative when the Government spends money to, Buy Bullets, or Fuel Air Planes, or Build a ship, or a plane.

Hell if you want to get real Technical even the Money they spend paying the troops, is stimulative. I mean didn't they tell us Food Stamps and Unemployment are stimulative? If those things are, then surely a GI's Pay check is as well.

So why do Liberals want to cause the Lay Offs of Thousands of American workers, in US defense Contracting Companies?

Sorry. It's OFFENCE they look to cut.Not Barry. The real liberals, like Bernie Sanders.

 

[Richard-H]

While I have no doubt that defense spending is incredibly stimulative. It has a basic intrisic problem:

A nation whose economy is based on defense spensing will inevidently become a warmongering nation.

This is what happened in Germany in the 1930s:

When Hitler came to power unemployment was at ~40%. Within one year Hilter lowered unemployment to 0%. Unemployment was ELIMINATED! The German economy boomed.

Defense spending was the primary mechanism used for this economic miracle.

The first result was that Germans LOVED Hitler.

The second result, however, was that Germans became fanatically militant. They believed that there was some great need for the military build up, not that it was just a ploy to stimulate the economy and distribute wealth.

So the went to war with EVERYBODY!

Defense spending does stimulate the economy. It distributes wealth. It gives people a 'respectable' job, but it results in militantism.

If we were to employ the same approach to the rest of the economy that we do in the defense industry, it would be called SOCIALISM.

 

[Sallow]

While I have no doubt that defense spending is incredibly stimulative. It has a basic intrisic problem:

A nation whose economy is based on defense spensing will inevidently become a warmongering nation.

This is what happened in Germany in the 1930s:

When Hitler came to power unemployment was at ~40%. Within one year Hilter lowered unemployment to 0%. Unemployment was ELIMINATED! The German economy boomed.

Defense spending was the primary mechanism used for this economic miracle.

The first result was that Germans LOVED Hitler.

The second result, however, was that Germans became fanatically militant. They believed that there was some great need for the military build up, not that it was just a ploy to stimulate the economy and distribute wealth.

So the went to war with EVERYBODY!

Defense spending does stimulate the economy. It distributes wealth. It gives people a 'respectable' job, but it results in militantism.

If we were to employ the same approach to the rest of the economy that we do in the defense industry, it would be called SOCIALISM.

Exactly.

 

[Richard-H]

Complete Bull shit. Spending on the Military is much more stimulative and long term than the Spending Obama wants to do. It puts money in the coffers of US private Sector Companies, that make the stuff the Military uses.

You guys look real Funny on this one. Defending the Spending the Obama want's to do, then trying to explain why spending on Defense is not Stimulative.

To funny indeed.

How do you consider defense contractors to be 'private sector' when they make their money from the government?[/QUOT

You do realize that most Defense contractors do not only do Government contracts right?

You do realize that there are Millions of People, Like my Father in Law, for example. Who work for shops that makes parts for cars, and parts of Hip Replacements, as well as parts of fighter Jets.

Millions.

you guys are reaching on this one. Nothing you can say will change the facts. If the spending Obama wants to do is Stimulative and good for the Economy, then so is Defense spending.

Only lying Partisan Hack would even try and deny it.

So you're saying that private enterprise is dependant on socialist government defense spending in order to survive, correct?