If repubs can never come up with specific policy examples of their party helping the...

[Dad2three]

You mean like George Soros? Is he looking out for the little guy?

How come only Republican rich guys are evil?

You mean the guys who are against the common man and support EVERY tax cut for themselves? Gee I wouldn't know?

 

[Dad2three]

Well you are completely wrong on both counts. Socialism is the attempt to chase an impossible Utopian state, whereby all things are equal and fair.

It's more like, we're all in this boat together, some of us are more capable of paddling, some of us have more resources than others, and we need to assign a mastermind to determine how all of this is equally divided between everyone in the boat, as opposed to everyone doing all they can to save us. It actually has nothing to do with the welfare of those in the boat, and everything to do with power and who controls it.

Conservatism is, we're all in this boat together and we all bring something special and important to the table as individuals, and our strength as a whole is in our potential as individuals.



Well, because John McCain is a progressive. He advocates for progressive policies. The most "conservative" thing he ever did was to nominate Sarah Palin as his vice presidential running mate. His crowning achievement is the most socialist/progressive thing any Republican has ever done. Campaign Finance Reform is an attempt to chase the Utopian dream of equality and fairness by removing individual freedom and assigning a mastermind to determine what is and isn't "fair" to all, in the form of central government.

You can laugh about being called a socialist all you like. We label our ideologies in order to distinguish them from one another. Yours, regardless of what you wish to label them, are clearly articulated by Karl Marx and the Communist Manifesto. This is the antithesis of American freedom and capitalism.

Got it, you are part of the 20% of AmeriKans who are just ignorant, selfish tool we call conservative knuckledraggers who ONLY have false premises, distortions and lies to fall back on

 

[Dad2three]

Basically, everything in the Newsweek article confirms my point and refutes your own. Keep in mind, the "land ownership" issue hasn't been an issue for almost 200 years, since most of America became settled. You are harkening back to a time when land was essentially free for the taking. If you could clear off the Native Americans (usually by killing them) and fence it in, the land was yours. Obviously, the wealthy few could afford to do this better than the average Joe. However, note that their solution wasn't centralized government planning and it promoted individual liberty.

I want to specifically address your last sentence, because I think this is the core of your personal belief system about the policies you support and the perception of the policies you think I support:

... the goal of the democratic government was not to help the wealthy and powerful but to achieve "the greatest happiness for the greatest number."

When we talk about "the government" it isn't some glorious magical goose which lays golden eggs. The government has no means of earned income whatsoever. It doesn't produce or sell anything of it's own accord. Every dime the government has is contributed in the form of taxation, tariffs, fees, etc., from the individual. The government extrapolates this money from the individuals who earn it, and then they appropriate the money to various needs.

Now there are some things that are general in nature, which the government is obliged to provide via the Constitution, like military protection. But the "progressive" movement has changed the intent of things like the commerce clause and terms like "general welfare" in order to use more and more of the resources to fund things that aren't provided for under the Constitution and never were intended to be by the Founding Fathers.

We've now come upon a generation (or two) of morons who believe that our happiness is achievable by laying our problems at the feet of the 'golden goose' and expecting it to be taken care of, so long as we beat away the evil republicans who simply wish to see people suffer.

Weird the Founders CHOSE a STRONG FEDERAL GOV'T with the US Constitution over the limited states rights Articles

The Founders on Taxation, Redistribution, and Property

While many who quote the founders highlight their emphasis on liberty, it is important to note that they were also concerned with equality, or at the least they worried about dramatic inequalities. Consider some of the leading lights of the American Founding.
Noah Webster, the same Webster who compiled the first American dictionary, was an ardent champion of the Constitution. In the fall of 1787, he published a pamphlet titled “Leading Principles of the Constitution” in which he provides a detailed discussion of the proposed document. Interspersed in that discussion is an argument about the merits—nay, the essential nature—of property in a republic. As Webster puts it, real power consists in nothing other than the ownership of property. In fact, the history of England is largely a story of the struggle of the people against the nobility, and “we observe that the power of the people has increased in an exact proportion to their acquisitions of property.” In fact, “a general and tolerably equal distribution of landed property is the whole basis of national freedom.”

Webster argues that the traditionally asserted bulwarks of freedom—freedom of the press, trial by jury, habeas corpus, as well as bills of rights—“are all inferior considerations, when compared with a general distribution of real property among every class of people.” Consolidation of real property, through inheritance laws and entailments, are “more dangerous to liberty and republican government, than all the constitutions that can be written on paper, or even than a standing army.”


Anti-Federalists opposed the ratification of the proposed constitution for a variety of reasons, most of which centered on the fear that the plan provided too many avenues for the consolidation of power.

The Founders on Taxation Redistribution and Property



Adam Smith, Thomas Jefferson, and other fellow travelers

If there was one thing the Revolutionary generation agreed on — and those guys who dress up like them at Tea Party conventions most definitely do not — it was the incompatibility of democracy and inherited wealth.

Stephen Budiansky s Liberal Curmudgeon Blog Adam Smith Thomas Jefferson and other fellow travelers



"The farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of this country made a paradise by the contributions of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings." TJefferson

 

[Dad2three]

Here is the difference that I think is over-looked in many debates. You ask about a party platform... (what "republicans" come up with, etc...). Both parties are infected with a disease. One just happens to be far more dangerous than the other.

The more effective question is, what of the political philosophies? If you are asking what benefit could be gained by conservative philosophy, then that is wide open and the sky is the limit.

You mean like greed, selfishness and myths and fairy tales?

 

[Dad2three]

President Obama's economy. Breaking down all those job creation charts and monthly job numbers, what kind of trickle up 'job creation' did we find?













Dear Class of 2014: We regret to inform you that the nation's job market continues to force college graduates to take jobs they're overqualified for, jobs outside their major, and generally delay their career to the detriment of at least a decade's worth of unearned wages. Good luck on your job search.

Weird, after 8 years of Dubya/GOP 'job creator' policies, and with the lowest sustained tax burden on the 'job creators', Dubya lost over 1 million PRIVATE sector jobs in 8 years AND 5+ million more in 2009? And the socialist Obama has had 10+ million created since hitting Bush's bottom March 2010?


DEC 2007

The Economic Consequences of Mr. Bush
The next president will have to deal with yet another crippling legacy of George W. Bush: the economy. A Nobel laureate, Joseph E. Stiglitz, sees a generation-long struggle to recoup.

The Economic Consequences of Mr. Bush Vanity Fair

 

[Dad2three]

Are you for real or you just like lying?
How many Government jobs "masters" will it take to RUN your new healthcare?


I think I read. 16, 000 new IRS czars were hired to come take your money if you didn't sign UP for that fascist pos called, ObamScamCare

Sure you did, lol

 

[Dad2three]

So the almost a trillion dollars stimulus worked because it extended unemployment benefits?

So in other words the "taxpayers" paid people to laz around for an extended two years so our money was given to them so they could do some stimulating.

wow, did any of you get a thank you note or anything?

good grief we are so SCREWED as a country when this is what people find as a great thing, extending unemployment benefits and live off the backs of taxpayers

'Yes, 2 UNFUNDED tax cuts, 2 UNFUNDED wars, UNFUNDED Medicare expansion and Dubya's home ownership ponzi scheme were better right?

Under questioning from skeptical Republicans, the director of the nonpartisan (and widely respected) Congressional Budget Office was emphatic about the value of the 2009 stimulus. And, he said, the vast majority of economists agree.

In a survey conducted by the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, 80 percent of economic experts agreed that, because of the stimulus, the U.S. unemployment rate was lower at the end of 2010 than it would have been otherwise.

"Only 4 percent disagreed or strongly disagreed," CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf told the House Budget Committee. "That," he added, "is a distinct minority."

 

[Freewill]

"Hope and Change" is in it's 6th year and the radical left calls for Obama to state specific examples of how his party is supporting the middle class and the poor......Just kidding. You gotta laugh that the low information left wing jerks are doing what they always do ....acting like losers.

As I said Obama is responsible for the biggest tax cut for the middle class since Reagan. He also pushed to raise the minimum wage.

I personally haven't seen it. Perhaps Billy here can list these tax cuts we "supposedly" received (not taking into account those high gas prices at the pump of course)

It was part of his stimulus package. How do you people not know what was in the stimulus? Obama has absolutely nothing to do with the high gas prices. Domestic drilling is at an all time high.

Obama rsquo s whopper of a claim on tax cuts - The Washington Post

 

[Freewill]

So the almost a trillion dollars stimulus worked because it extended unemployment benefits?

So in other words the "taxpayers" paid people to laz around for an extended two years so our money was given to them so they could do some stimulating.

wow, did any of you get a thank you note or anything?

good grief we are so SCREWED as a country when this is what people find as a great thing, extending unemployment benefits and live off the backs of taxpayers

'Yes, 2 UNFUNDED tax cuts, 2 UNFUNDED wars, UNFUNDED Medicare expansion and Dubya's home ownership ponzi scheme were better right?

Under questioning from skeptical Republicans, the director of the nonpartisan (and widely respected) Congressional Budget Office was emphatic about the value of the 2009 stimulus. And, he said, the vast majority of economists agree.

In a survey conducted by the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, 80 percent of economic experts agreed that, because of the stimulus, the U.S. unemployment rate was lower at the end of 2010 than it would have been otherwise.

"Only 4 percent disagreed or strongly disagreed," CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf told the House Budget Committee. "That," he added, "is a distinct minority."

Obama, a surge in an unfunded war, according to you. An unfunded GM bailout. An unfunded Stimulus package. Tax cuts, which the left claims ruined the country when Bush cut taxes (Cuts still in place) Obamacare that the only way it could even appear to be funded is by cooking the books. Look around NOTHING is better since OBAMA.

 

[Freewill]

...middle class and poor, why do they continue to support them? Why do republicans continue to be elected?

Trickle down economics has proven to be smoke screen. Bush's tax cuts pitifully created 4.6 jobs per million dollar cut. That's it. In Obama's first 4 years, twice as many jobs were created than in all of Bush's 8. According to the CBO, Obama's stimulus alone created over 2 million jobs that still exist to this day.

CBO: Stimulus Supports 2.9 Million Jobs Today | FDL News Desk

Obama’s Numbers, October Update

Here is a non partisan thorough look at what the stimulus accomplished which is staggering. It literally saved the country from another depression.

Was the Obama Stimulus a Success or a Failure? - NPQ - Nonprofit Quarterly

Here is WHY Obama's stimulus worked:

Extended Federal Unemployment Benefits and the Economy

I just don't understand what republicans have to show for. Obama's tax cut for the middle class was the biggest since Reagan. Seriously what has any republican president since Reagan done that has benefitted the country as a whole?

It seems as though all the average joe republicans want to hear are flowery speeches about freedom and warm apple pie. They don't want to hear the truth which is that republicans have nothing to offer.

Just looking around should show you that the stimulus didn't really work.

How about Reagan and the earned income tax credit. Like it or not it was directly pointed at the working man. On the other hand I can't think of one thing the democrats have done to help the working man.

The economy lost 8 million jobs from a free fall that began months before Obama was sworn in. We have since regained all of them no thanks to republicans. Over 2 million came directly from Obama's stimulus.

Your point only make Obama look that much worse. Anyone should be able to improve upon a bad economy. Imagine if the economy would have been doing really well don't you think improvement would be hard? Obama's administration made the 8 percent claim in UE which never came true because they don't know what they are talking about or just out right lie. In every recession, prior to this one, the recovery has been as strong as the recession itself. Obama's policies not only slowed the economy making it the weakest and longest recovery in history it drove our children into debt they may never, will never, repay.

No, Obama had the chance to look really good but what he did has caused you and him to brag about things that just ain't true.

 

[The Rabbi]

The stimulus failed by the standards the administration set for it. Period. That is fact. The economy has had its worst growth post recession ever. That is a fact. Both of those things are directly traceable to Democrat policies enacted when Dems had a lock on Congress and the WH. That is a fact.
Dems don't do well with facts.

 

[ShaklesOfBigGov]

[



No employer is going to hire someone to just stand around all day doing nothing. No matter how many tax cuts that employer receives.

The only reason why an employer is going to hire anyone is because that company has more work to do than the existing staff can handle in a normal work week.

If an employer has to hire more people then that means that business is having more sales. If that business is having more sales that business is making more money and the last thing that business needs is a tax cut.

Economics 101. I doubt many republicans on this board actually took the class.

...middle class and poor, why do they continue to support them? Why do republicans continue to be elected?

Trickle down economics has proven to be smoke screen. Bush's tax cuts pitifully created 4.6 jobs per million dollar cut. That's it. In Obama's first 4 years, twice as many jobs were created than in all of Bush's 8. According to the CBO, Obama's stimulus alone created over 2 million jobs that still exist to this day.

CBO: Stimulus Supports 2.9 Million Jobs Today | FDL News Desk

Obama’s Numbers, October Update

Here is a non partisan thorough look at what the stimulus accomplished which is staggering. It literally saved the country from another depression.

Was the Obama Stimulus a Success or a Failure? - NPQ - Nonprofit Quarterly

Here is WHY Obama's stimulus worked:

Extended Federal Unemployment Benefits and the Economy

I just don't understand what republicans have to show for. Obama's tax cut for the middle class was the biggest since Reagan. Seriously what has any republican president since Reagan done that has benefitted the country as a whole?

It seems as though all the average joe republicans want to hear are flowery speeches about freedom and warm apple pie. They don't want to hear the truth which is that republicans have nothing to offer.

No employer is going to hire someone to just stand around all day doing nothing. No matter how many tax cuts that employer receives.

The only reason why an employer is going to hire anyone is because that company has more work to do than the existing staff can handle in a normal work week.

If an employer has to hire more people then that means that business is having more sales. If that business is having more sales that business is making more money and the last thing that business needs is a tax cut.

Economics 101. I doubt many republicans on this board actually took the class.

Disagreeable little *****, aren't you?

She sure is. Ignorant too. Like most libs she never ran a business, never even got close. That much is obvious.

This pretty much says it all.

When it comes to basic questions on the economy
"Americans in the first three categories do reasonably well. But the left has trouble squaring economic thinking with their political psychology, morals and aesthetics."

Daniel Klein Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - WSJ

 

[Dad2three]

Obama rsquo s whopper of a claim on tax cuts - The Washington Post

Weird they ignored Obama's premise

"The point the president was making that is there is not a tax cut that has been enjoyed by such a broad section of the population,”

In other words, this isn’t about the size of the tax cut, but about the fact that every working family, except those making more than $190,000, received as much as $800 in tax cuts."

 

[Stephanie]

The stimulus failed by the standards the administration set for it. Period. That is fact. The economy has had its worst growth post recession ever. That is a fact. Both of those things are directly traceable to Democrat policies enacted when Dems had a lock on Congress and the WH. That is a fact.
Dems don't do well with facts.

they will never admit it is their party strangling (us the people), our country and businesses.
they just won't come into REALITY if they did they'd have to admit they support a failing strategy and policies

 

[Dad2three]

Obama, a surge in an unfunded war, according to you. An unfunded GM bailout. An unfunded Stimulus package. Tax cuts, which the left claims ruined the country when Bush cut taxes (Cuts still in place) Obamacare that the only way it could even appear to be funded is by cooking the books. Look around NOTHING is better since OBAMA.

Yes, because Obama STARTED 2 UNFUNDED wars as he CUT taxes...

Yes stimulus was needed thanks to Bush's policies, unlike Bush's fiscal policies that went from giving US 20%+ of GDP revenues to 15% (Korean war levels) WHILE he went to two UNFUNDED wars


You know Obama has got US back to Reagan level revenues (17% of GDP) and repeatedly pushed to get the GOP to help with more revenues to get US back to Clinton'/Carters 20%+?


Yes, Dubya's tax cuts BK US and are responsible for 1/3rd the deficits 2001-2010

Obamacares? Oh right the thing Obama FUNDED with tax increases, unlike ANYTHING the GOP ever does

Nothing is better? Weird, we still losing 700,000+ jobs a month? GDP shrinking 9%+ like Dubya's last quarter? Hasn't stick market doubled? 10+ PRIVATE sector jobs since hitting Dubya's bottom March 2010?

 

[mudwhistle]

Here is the difference that I think is over-looked in many debates. You ask about a party platform... (what "republicans" come up with, etc...). Both parties are infected with a disease. One just happens to be far more dangerous than the other.

The more effective question is, what of the political philosophies? If you are asking what benefit could be gained by conservative philosophy, then that is wide open and the sky is the limit.

You mean like greed, selfishness and myths and fairy tales?

Sounds like most of your posts.

 

[Dad2three]

Your point only make Obama look that much worse. Anyone should be able to improve upon a bad economy. Imagine if the economy would have been doing really well don't you think improvement would be hard? Obama's administration made the 8 percent claim in UE which never came true because they don't know what they are talking about or just out right lie. In every recession, prior to this one, the recovery has been as strong as the recession itself. Obama's policies not only slowed the economy making it the weakest and longest recovery in history it drove our children into debt they may never, will never, repay.

No, Obama had the chance to look really good but what he did has caused you and him to brag about things that just ain't true.

False premises, distortions and LIES the ONLY thing right wingers have. Shocking

Yes, Dubya/GOP dug a DEEP hole and have refused to help push the car out of the ditch or to even get out of the car. Recovery after 7 years of Dubya/GOP 'job creator' policies? Why would a recovery be needed? lol

 

[Dad2three]

The stimulus failed by the standards the administration set for it. Period. That is fact. The economy has had its worst growth post recession ever. That is a fact. Both of those things are directly traceable to Democrat policies enacted when Dems had a lock on Congress and the WH. That is a fact.
Dems don't do well with facts.

More right wing garbage without honesty or logic. Shocking

THOSE are facts!

WHY was there a recession? Why the need for a recovery after Dubya/GOP 'job creator' policies' for 8 years?

 

[Dad2three]

[



No employer is going to hire someone to just stand around all day doing nothing. No matter how many tax cuts that employer receives.

The only reason why an employer is going to hire anyone is because that company has more work to do than the existing staff can handle in a normal work week.

If an employer has to hire more people then that means that business is having more sales. If that business is having more sales that business is making more money and the last thing that business needs is a tax cut.

Economics 101. I doubt many republicans on this board actually took the class.

...middle class and poor, why do they continue to support them? Why do republicans continue to be elected?

Trickle down economics has proven to be smoke screen. Bush's tax cuts pitifully created 4.6 jobs per million dollar cut. That's it. In Obama's first 4 years, twice as many jobs were created than in all of Bush's 8. According to the CBO, Obama's stimulus alone created over 2 million jobs that still exist to this day.

CBO: Stimulus Supports 2.9 Million Jobs Today | FDL News Desk

Obama’s Numbers, October Update

Here is a non partisan thorough look at what the stimulus accomplished which is staggering. It literally saved the country from another depression.

Was the Obama Stimulus a Success or a Failure? - NPQ - Nonprofit Quarterly

Here is WHY Obama's stimulus worked:

Extended Federal Unemployment Benefits and the Economy

I just don't understand what republicans have to show for. Obama's tax cut for the middle class was the biggest since Reagan. Seriously what has any republican president since Reagan done that has benefitted the country as a whole?

It seems as though all the average joe republicans want to hear are flowery speeches about freedom and warm apple pie. They don't want to hear the truth which is that republicans have nothing to offer.

No employer is going to hire someone to just stand around all day doing nothing. No matter how many tax cuts that employer receives.

The only reason why an employer is going to hire anyone is because that company has more work to do than the existing staff can handle in a normal work week.

If an employer has to hire more people then that means that business is having more sales. If that business is having more sales that business is making more money and the last thing that business needs is a tax cut.

Economics 101. I doubt many republicans on this board actually took the class.

Disagreeable little *****, aren't you?

She sure is. Ignorant too. Like most libs she never ran a business, never even got close. That much is obvious.

This pretty much says it all.

When it comes to basic questions on the economy
"Americans in the first three categories do reasonably well. But the left has trouble squaring economic thinking with their political psychology, morals and aesthetics."

Daniel Klein Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader - WSJ

Stop projecting. I know ANOTHER tax cut will fix EVERYTHING in conservative world right?

 

[Dad2three]

The stimulus failed by the standards the administration set for it. Period. That is fact. The economy has had its worst growth post recession ever. That is a fact. Both of those things are directly traceable to Democrat policies enacted when Dems had a lock on Congress and the WH. That is a fact.
Dems don't do well with facts.

they will never admit it is their party strangling (us the people), our country and businesses.
they just won't come into REALITY if they did they'd have to admit they support a failing strategy and policies

lol, Yeah, GOP/conservative policies worked so well *shaking head*