CDZ If our politicians and bureaucrats can't operate the VA...how can they handle 320 million patients?

[Picaro]

This is a question I keep asking....the Veteran's Administration is a nightmare.....it is run by the very same politicians and bureaucrats who created the VA as a medical system for a tiny number of Americans...specifically to handle their needs as a group outside of all other medical systems....in order to ensure that the Vets got good medical care...

And it is horrible....and Vets are dying on fake waiting lists....

The same politicians who are running this horrible system...exempt themselves from it.....and now say they want to run healthcare for all 320 million Americans....and they will also be exempt from that system.....

Tell us....how does this make any sense?

I hear you. America sucks. Our government is incompetent and could never land an Army in France if need be or deliver the mail.



So, the reason for my love of Obamacare is well stated. At least it admits we have had a socialist healthcare system since, well, healthcare was worth paying for. Agree?

So speaking of mail...

All I need the government to do is set some guidelines for insurance companies and force my friends to pay SOMETHING for their own health insurance. I am not asking some bankruptcy king like Donald Trump to run hospitals or anything beyond his ability. Just set guidelines for insurance companies, tweak it every couple years and make sure my neighbors pay SOMETHING for insurance since my neighbors sure do run to the ER and expect to get treated before paying.

What right wingers never seem to get or want to admit is the 'private sector' will always shoot itself in the foot and make such 'reforms' as ObamaCare politically popular via its own greed and arrogant mis-management. Insurance companies set themselves up with all these little mini-monopolies by state, to kill competition among themselves and making it impossible to buy insurance across state lines, and then HMO's came along and killed off any competition left over.

As for medical research and the rest, the public pays for most of it, usually the most expensive parts, trains the doctors and nurses, etc., etc, so yes, the public has a claim on receiving health care. The right wingers will just have to live with that.

They can't create a monopoly without politicians......the government, not the private sector is constricting the insurance market....and you want these same poltiicians to run healthcare for the entire country...how smart is that?

I see you can't bring yourself to admit the insurance companies are behind it. This is typical of ideologies being blind to anything that doesn't fit into the narratives. How smart is that?

The Insurance companies didn't pass the laws creating the in state monopolies..did they.......the politicians did...the same politicians who are currently run the VA and who want to control the health care for all of us......How smart is that? You think they will be more virtuous when you have no choice but to have government run healthcare?

The insurance companies lobby for and buy themselves such laws, and like all the other business friendly legislation they even write most of the bills themselves. Most people never read bills or even bother to keep track of of what their pols do, so obviously they're fine with this, and also the vast majority of business friendly legislation, so it's clear the pols aren't just popping up out of nowhere and just arbitrarily doing their own thing, so the semantics game fails. And, like I said, the VA works for a lot of people just fine, so obviously if it isn't working in some region then the problem is the people in that region and those they elect.

And, I see I forgot to point out the reasons these insurance companies can set up these state monopolies is because of the 'states' rights' functions of governments, not the Feds; corporations are state-created entities, not Federal ones, so it's another case of right wing Constitutional literalism contradicting itself re 'free enterprise' and the like. If one attempts to 'reform' that and allow competition from other states, then one is going to have to nullify some 'states' rights' legal prerogatives to do so. Think that isn't a problem? ... The usual ad hoc handwaves don't work in this case, or mosto thers for that matter.

 

[Dragonlady]

This is a question I keep asking....the Veteran's Administration is a nightmare.....it is run by the very same politicians and bureaucrats who created the VA as a medical system for a tiny number of Americans...specifically to handle their needs as a group outside of all other medical systems....in order to ensure that the Vets got good medical care...

And it is horrible....and Vets are dying on fake waiting lists....

The same politicians who are running this horrible system...exempt themselves from it.....and now say they want to run healthcare for all 320 million Americans....and they will also be exempt from that system.....

Tell us....how does this make any sense?

The VA is underfunded and understaffed. Any fool can see that. They give first rate care, but the VA was never intended to look after and unending number of war wounded which is the result of 15 years of continuous war by the US government.

What's worse is the same politicians who had no hesitation to send these people into harms way, then reneg on their promises to look after. Canada has been no better in than the US in that regard.

However, health care for the masses is worse, and the paperwork goes on forever.

 

[2aguy]

This is a question I keep asking....the Veteran's Administration is a nightmare.....it is run by the very same politicians and bureaucrats who created the VA as a medical system for a tiny number of Americans...specifically to handle their needs as a group outside of all other medical systems....in order to ensure that the Vets got good medical care...

And it is horrible....and Vets are dying on fake waiting lists....

The same politicians who are running this horrible system...exempt themselves from it.....and now say they want to run healthcare for all 320 million Americans....and they will also be exempt from that system.....

Tell us....how does this make any sense?

The VA is underfunded and understaffed. Any fool can see that. They give first rate care, but the VA was never intended to look after and unending number of war wounded which is the result of 15 years of continuous war by the US government.

What's worse is the same politicians who had no hesitation to send these people into harms way, then reneg on their promises to look after. Canada has been no better in than the US in that regard.

However, health care for the masses is worse, and the paperwork goes on forever.

Again.......you want the same politicians and bureaucrats who set up the VA medical system to control your healthcare...right?

 

[eflatminor]

This is a question I keep asking....the Veteran's Administration is a nightmare.....it is run by the very same politicians and bureaucrats who created the VA as a medical system for a tiny number of Americans...specifically to handle their needs as a group outside of all other medical systems....in order to ensure that the Vets got good medical care...

And it is horrible....and Vets are dying on fake waiting lists....

The same politicians who are running this horrible system...exempt themselves from it.....and now say they want to run healthcare for all 320 million Americans....and they will also be exempt from that system.....

Tell us....how does this make any sense?

It's insane is what it is. The VA is run by the government soup to nuts, and the lefties want that shit for all of us. Insane.

Were we to have a free market in healthcare (ha...), it would be simple thing to honor our vets with a straight forward benefit. Congress simply creates a law that says to all healthcare providers, send any vet bills to DC. If you charge the taxpayers more than market rates, you loose reimbursement privileges for vets. Simple.

As it stands, the markets for healthcare and health insurance is a clusterfuck. Thanks central planners from both parties.

 

[Dragonlady]

This is a question I keep asking....the Veteran's Administration is a nightmare.....it is run by the very same politicians and bureaucrats who created the VA as a medical system for a tiny number of Americans...specifically to handle their needs as a group outside of all other medical systems....in order to ensure that the Vets got good medical care...

And it is horrible....and Vets are dying on fake waiting lists....

The same politicians who are running this horrible system...exempt themselves from it.....and now say they want to run healthcare for all 320 million Americans....and they will also be exempt from that system.....

Tell us....how does this make any sense?

The VA is underfunded and understaffed. Any fool can see that. They give first rate care, but the VA was never intended to look after and unending number of war wounded which is the result of 15 years of continuous war by the US government.

What's worse is the same politicians who had no hesitation to send these people into harms way, then reneg on their promises to look after. Canada has been no better in than the US in that regard.

However, health care for the masses is worse, and the paperwork goes on forever.

Again.......you want the same politicians and bureaucrats who set up the VA medical system to control your healthcare...right?

I'm a Canadian living in Canada. I've had 100% government funded health care since I was a child. It's a whole lot BETTER than the mess you have.

Medicare and the VA are function a whole lot better than your private insurance system, and they're a whole lot cheaper.

 

[Toronado3800]

This is a question I keep asking....the Veteran's Administration is a nightmare.....it is run by the very same politicians and bureaucrats who created the VA as a medical system for a tiny number of Americans...specifically to handle their needs as a group outside of all other medical systems....in order to ensure that the Vets got good medical care...

And it is horrible....and Vets are dying on fake waiting lists....

The same politicians who are running this horrible system...exempt themselves from it.....and now say they want to run healthcare for all 320 million Americans....and they will also be exempt from that system.....

Tell us....how does this make any sense?

The VA is underfunded and understaffed. Any fool can see that. They give first rate care, but the VA was never intended to look after and unending number of war wounded which is the result of 15 years of continuous war by the US government.

What's worse is the same politicians who had no hesitation to send these people into harms way, then reneg on their promises to look after. Canada has been no better in than the US in that regard.

However, health care for the masses is worse, and the paperwork goes on forever.

Again.......you want the same politicians and bureaucrats who set up the VA medical system to control your healthcare...right?

No, I want all the freeloaders to be forced to carry some form of health insurance since the kinder/gentler folks can't throw those who can't pay out of the hospital.

As a trade off for forcing people to use their products, and a nod towards the new problem Ancient Greece did not have, I don't mind regulations forcing insurance companies to treat those with pre-existing conditions decently.

 

[2aguy]

This is a question I keep asking....the Veteran's Administration is a nightmare.....it is run by the very same politicians and bureaucrats who created the VA as a medical system for a tiny number of Americans...specifically to handle their needs as a group outside of all other medical systems....in order to ensure that the Vets got good medical care...

And it is horrible....and Vets are dying on fake waiting lists....

The same politicians who are running this horrible system...exempt themselves from it.....and now say they want to run healthcare for all 320 million Americans....and they will also be exempt from that system.....

Tell us....how does this make any sense?

The VA is underfunded and understaffed. Any fool can see that. They give first rate care, but the VA was never intended to look after and unending number of war wounded which is the result of 15 years of continuous war by the US government.

What's worse is the same politicians who had no hesitation to send these people into harms way, then reneg on their promises to look after. Canada has been no better in than the US in that regard.

However, health care for the masses is worse, and the paperwork goes on forever.

Again.......you want the same politicians and bureaucrats who set up the VA medical system to control your healthcare...right?

I'm a Canadian living in Canada. I've had 100% government funded health care since I was a child. It's a whole lot BETTER than the mess you have.

Medicare and the VA are function a whole lot better than your private insurance system, and they're a whole lot cheaper.

Cheaper....? Only because the do not pay the Doctors the actual cost of the treatment. They pay only a portion of the fee and stick the Doctors with the rest, that is why a lot of Doctors do not Accept those patients......and the Canadian healthcare system is collapsing like all the other social welfare state healthcare systems.....

 

[Dragonlady]

This is a question I keep asking....the Veteran's Administration is a nightmare.....it is run by the very same politicians and bureaucrats who created the VA as a medical system for a tiny number of Americans...specifically to handle their needs as a group outside of all other medical systems....in order to ensure that the Vets got good medical care...

And it is horrible....and Vets are dying on fake waiting lists....

The same politicians who are running this horrible system...exempt themselves from it.....and now say they want to run healthcare for all 320 million Americans....and they will also be exempt from that system.....

Tell us....how does this make any sense?

The VA is underfunded and understaffed. Any fool can see that. They give first rate care, but the VA was never intended to look after and unending number of war wounded which is the result of 15 years of continuous war by the US government.

What's worse is the same politicians who had no hesitation to send these people into harms way, then reneg on their promises to look after. Canada has been no better in than the US in that regard.

However, health care for the masses is worse, and the paperwork goes on forever.

Again.......you want the same politicians and bureaucrats who set up the VA medical system to control your healthcare...right?

I'm a Canadian living in Canada. I've had 100% government funded health care since I was a child. It's a whole lot BETTER than the mess you have.

Medicare and the VA are function a whole lot better than your private insurance system, and they're a whole lot cheaper.

Cheaper....? Only because the do not pay the Doctors the actual cost of the treatment. They pay only a portion of the fee and stick the Doctors with the rest, that is why a lot of Doctors do not Accept those patients......and the Canadian healthcare system is collapsing like all the other social welfare state healthcare systems.....

The "actual cost of treatment", does that include insurance company administration fees, CEO salaries and profits for the shareholders? The rest of the world does it better, and cheaper than the US, and we cover ALL of our citizens - every single one of them. Everyone gets the same quality of basic treatment, and we don't have co-pays, paperwork, or bills from our doctor. There are more expensive additions you can make, but no one is forced to use emergency rooms or "free clinics" for care.

The Canadian health care system is strong and well maintained. The proof is that Canadians are outliving Americans, and that Canadians are universally reporting high satisfaction rates with their health care, as is most of the rest of the First World. When Americans complain about health care, it isn't Medicare they complain about. They complain about insurance companies denying coverage, of mountains of paperwork fighting insurance company denials, high co-pays, pre-approvals for treatment and the myriad ways for-profit health care adds to the costs and stress of illness. None of which the rest of the world deals with under single payer.

In the USA before Obamacare, 45,000 people per year died because of lack of access to health care. But since these were poor people, or people who had "maxxed out" their coverages, most Americans don't care.

But keep believing the lies your for-profit medical industrial complex feeds you about the horrors of health care in other countries. The rest of the world can't believe you're so gullible. OTOH, you elected Trump so your level of intelligence and gullibility is highly suspect.

 

[2aguy]

This is a question I keep asking....the Veteran's Administration is a nightmare.....it is run by the very same politicians and bureaucrats who created the VA as a medical system for a tiny number of Americans...specifically to handle their needs as a group outside of all other medical systems....in order to ensure that the Vets got good medical care...

And it is horrible....and Vets are dying on fake waiting lists....

The same politicians who are running this horrible system...exempt themselves from it.....and now say they want to run healthcare for all 320 million Americans....and they will also be exempt from that system.....

Tell us....how does this make any sense?

The VA is underfunded and understaffed. Any fool can see that. They give first rate care, but the VA was never intended to look after and unending number of war wounded which is the result of 15 years of continuous war by the US government.

What's worse is the same politicians who had no hesitation to send these people into harms way, then reneg on their promises to look after. Canada has been no better in than the US in that regard.

However, health care for the masses is worse, and the paperwork goes on forever.

Again.......you want the same politicians and bureaucrats who set up the VA medical system to control your healthcare...right?

I'm a Canadian living in Canada. I've had 100% government funded health care since I was a child. It's a whole lot BETTER than the mess you have.

Medicare and the VA are function a whole lot better than your private insurance system, and they're a whole lot cheaper.

Cheaper....? Only because the do not pay the Doctors the actual cost of the treatment. They pay only a portion of the fee and stick the Doctors with the rest, that is why a lot of Doctors do not Accept those patients......and the Canadian healthcare system is collapsing like all the other social welfare state healthcare systems.....

The "actual cost of treatment", does that include insurance company administration fees, CEO salaries and profits for the shareholders? The rest of the world does it better, and cheaper than the US, and we cover ALL of our citizens - every single one of them. Everyone gets the same quality of basic treatment, and we don't have co-pays, paperwork, or bills from our doctor. There are more expensive additions you can make, but no one is forced to use emergency rooms or "free clinics" for care.

The Canadian health care system is strong and well maintained. The proof is that Canadians are outliving Americans, and that Canadians are universally reporting high satisfaction rates with their health care, as is most of the rest of the First World. When Americans complain about health care, it isn't Medicare they complain about. They complain about insurance companies denying coverage, of mountains of paperwork fighting insurance company denials, high co-pays, pre-approvals for treatment and the myriad ways for-profit health care adds to the costs and stress of illness. None of which the rest of the world deals with under single payer.

In the USA before Obamacare, 45,000 people per year died because of lack of access to health care. But since these were poor people, or people who had "maxxed out" their coverages, most Americans don't care.

But keep believing the lies your for-profit medical industrial complex feeds you about the horrors of health care in other countries. The rest of the world can't believe you're so gullible. OTOH, you elected Trump so your level of intelligence and gullibility is highly suspect.

The rest of the world is watching their healthcare systems crumble...they cant afford them...and the quality sucks....

 

[2aguy]

This is a question I keep asking....the Veteran's Administration is a nightmare.....it is run by the very same politicians and bureaucrats who created the VA as a medical system for a tiny number of Americans...specifically to handle their needs as a group outside of all other medical systems....in order to ensure that the Vets got good medical care...

And it is horrible....and Vets are dying on fake waiting lists....

The same politicians who are running this horrible system...exempt themselves from it.....and now say they want to run healthcare for all 320 million Americans....and they will also be exempt from that system.....

Tell us....how does this make any sense?

The VA is underfunded and understaffed. Any fool can see that. They give first rate care, but the VA was never intended to look after and unending number of war wounded which is the result of 15 years of continuous war by the US government.

What's worse is the same politicians who had no hesitation to send these people into harms way, then reneg on their promises to look after. Canada has been no better in than the US in that regard.

However, health care for the masses is worse, and the paperwork goes on forever.

Again.......you want the same politicians and bureaucrats who set up the VA medical system to control your healthcare...right?

I'm a Canadian living in Canada. I've had 100% government funded health care since I was a child. It's a whole lot BETTER than the mess you have.

Medicare and the VA are function a whole lot better than your private insurance system, and they're a whole lot cheaper.

Cheaper....? Only because the do not pay the Doctors the actual cost of the treatment. They pay only a portion of the fee and stick the Doctors with the rest, that is why a lot of Doctors do not Accept those patients......and the Canadian healthcare system is collapsing like all the other social welfare state healthcare systems.....

The "actual cost of treatment", does that include insurance company administration fees, CEO salaries and profits for the shareholders? The rest of the world does it better, and cheaper than the US, and we cover ALL of our citizens - every single one of them. Everyone gets the same quality of basic treatment, and we don't have co-pays, paperwork, or bills from our doctor. There are more expensive additions you can make, but no one is forced to use emergency rooms or "free clinics" for care.

The Canadian health care system is strong and well maintained. The proof is that Canadians are outliving Americans, and that Canadians are universally reporting high satisfaction rates with their health care, as is most of the rest of the First World. When Americans complain about health care, it isn't Medicare they complain about. They complain about insurance companies denying coverage, of mountains of paperwork fighting insurance company denials, high co-pays, pre-approvals for treatment and the myriad ways for-profit health care adds to the costs and stress of illness. None of which the rest of the world deals with under single payer.

In the USA before Obamacare, 45,000 people per year died because of lack of access to health care. But since these were poor people, or people who had "maxxed out" their coverages, most Americans don't care.

But keep believing the lies your for-profit medical industrial complex feeds you about the horrors of health care in other countries. The rest of the world can't believe you're so gullible. OTOH, you elected Trump so your level of intelligence and gullibility is highly suspect.

Yeah...keep telling yourself that....

Canada....

If Universal Health Care Is The Goal, Don't Copy Canada

Amongst industrialized countries -- members of the OECD -- with universal health care, Canada has the second most expensive health care system as a share of the economy after adjusting for age. This is not necessarily a problem, however, depending on the value received for such spending. As countries become richer, citizens may choose to allocate a larger portion of their income to health care. However, such expenditures are a problem when they are not matched by value.
The most visible manifestation of Canada’s failing health care system are wait times for health care services. In 2013, Canadians, on average, faced a four and a half month wait for medically necessary treatment after referral by a general practitioner. This wait time is almost twice as long as it was in 1993 when national wait times were first measured.
--------

Long wait times in Canada have also been observed for basic diagnostic imaging technologies that Americans take for granted, which are crucial for determining the severity of a patient’s condition. In 2013, the average wait time for an MRI was over two months, while Canadians needing a CT scan waited for almost a month.

These wait times are not simply “minor inconveniences.” Patients experience physical pain and suffering, mental anguish, and lost economic productivity while waiting for treatment. One recent estimate (2013) found that the value of time lost due to medical wait times in Canada amounted to approximately $1,200 per patient.

There is also considerable evidence indicating that excessive wait times lead to poorer health outcomes and in some cases, death. Dr. Brian Day, former head of the Canadian Medical Association recently noted that “[d]elayed care often transforms an acute and potentially reversible illness or injury into a chronic, irreversible condition that involves permanent disability.”

And more on Canada...


The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care

Mountain-bike enthusiast Suzanne Aucoin had to fight more than her Stage IV colon cancer. Her doctor suggested Erbitux—a proven cancer drug that targets cancer cells exclusively, unlike conventional chemotherapies that more crudely kill all fast-growing cells in the body—and Aucoin went to a clinic to begin treatment. But if Erbitux offered hope, Aucoin’s insurance didn’t: she received one inscrutable form letter after another, rejecting her claim for reimbursement. Yet another example of the callous hand of managed care, depriving someone of needed medical help, right? Guess again. Erbitux is standard treatment, covered by insurance companies—in the United States. Aucoin lives in Ontario, Canada.

When Aucoin appealed to an official ombudsman, the Ontario government claimed that her treatment was unproven and that she had gone to an unaccredited clinic. But the FDA in the U.S. had approved Erbitux, and her clinic was a cancer center affiliated with a prominent Catholic hospital in Buffalo. This January, the ombudsman ruled in Aucoin’s favor, awarding her the cost of treatment. She represents a dramatic new trend in Canadian health-care advocacy: finding the treatment you need in another country, and then fighting Canadian bureaucrats (and often suing) to get them to pick up the tab.

And the truth.......that Canadians don't see until it is too late.....

My health-care prejudices crumbled not in the classroom but on the way to one. On a subzero Winnipeg morning in 1997, I cut across the hospital emergency room to shave a few minutes off my frigid commute. Swinging open the door, I stepped into a nightmare: the ER overflowed with elderly people on stretchers, waiting for admission. Some, it turned out, had waited five days. The air stank with sweat and urine. Right then, I began to reconsider everything that I thought I knew about Canadian health care. I soon discovered that the problems went well beyond overcrowded ERs. Patients had to wait for practically any diagnostic test or procedure, such as the man with persistent pain from a hernia operation whom we referred to a pain clinic—with a three-year wait list; or the woman needing a sleep study to diagnose what seemed like sleep apnea, who faced a two-year delay; or the woman with breast cancer who needed to wait four months for radiation therapy, when the standard of care was four weeks.

 

[2aguy]

This is a question I keep asking....the Veteran's Administration is a nightmare.....it is run by the very same politicians and bureaucrats who created the VA as a medical system for a tiny number of Americans...specifically to handle their needs as a group outside of all other medical systems....in order to ensure that the Vets got good medical care...

And it is horrible....and Vets are dying on fake waiting lists....

The same politicians who are running this horrible system...exempt themselves from it.....and now say they want to run healthcare for all 320 million Americans....and they will also be exempt from that system.....

Tell us....how does this make any sense?

The VA is underfunded and understaffed. Any fool can see that. They give first rate care, but the VA was never intended to look after and unending number of war wounded which is the result of 15 years of continuous war by the US government.

What's worse is the same politicians who had no hesitation to send these people into harms way, then reneg on their promises to look after. Canada has been no better in than the US in that regard.

However, health care for the masses is worse, and the paperwork goes on forever.

Again.......you want the same politicians and bureaucrats who set up the VA medical system to control your healthcare...right?

I'm a Canadian living in Canada. I've had 100% government funded health care since I was a child. It's a whole lot BETTER than the mess you have.

Medicare and the VA are function a whole lot better than your private insurance system, and they're a whole lot cheaper.

Cheaper....? Only because the do not pay the Doctors the actual cost of the treatment. They pay only a portion of the fee and stick the Doctors with the rest, that is why a lot of Doctors do not Accept those patients......and the Canadian healthcare system is collapsing like all the other social welfare state healthcare systems.....

The "actual cost of treatment", does that include insurance company administration fees, CEO salaries and profits for the shareholders? The rest of the world does it better, and cheaper than the US, and we cover ALL of our citizens - every single one of them. Everyone gets the same quality of basic treatment, and we don't have co-pays, paperwork, or bills from our doctor. There are more expensive additions you can make, but no one is forced to use emergency rooms or "free clinics" for care.

The Canadian health care system is strong and well maintained. The proof is that Canadians are outliving Americans, and that Canadians are universally reporting high satisfaction rates with their health care, as is most of the rest of the First World. When Americans complain about health care, it isn't Medicare they complain about. They complain about insurance companies denying coverage, of mountains of paperwork fighting insurance company denials, high co-pays, pre-approvals for treatment and the myriad ways for-profit health care adds to the costs and stress of illness. None of which the rest of the world deals with under single payer.

In the USA before Obamacare, 45,000 people per year died because of lack of access to health care. But since these were poor people, or people who had "maxxed out" their coverages, most Americans don't care.

But keep believing the lies your for-profit medical industrial complex feeds you about the horrors of health care in other countries. The rest of the world can't believe you're so gullible. OTOH, you elected Trump so your level of intelligence and gullibility is highly suspect.

On Canada and it's healthcare system....government can't do anything well...

No end in sight to Ontario's health-care crisis

Wynne’s government says it wants doctors to become co-managers of the health-care system, which eats up 40% (and growing) of all government spending.

That really means it wants doctors to share the blame as it reduces the growth rate of provincial funding to health care.

Doctors want no part of this. They want more money.

They blame their own bargainers at the Ontario Medical Association for failing to deliver it and the government for incompetence in administering healthcare.

In response, the government accuses the doctors of greed, of eating up scarce resources through high salaries, money that should go to patient care.

The doctors are right that the Wynne government appears to have no plan for making health care efficient.

It’s not just them making the allegation.

The Ontario Health Coalition representing more than 400 unions, medical professionals, non-profits, student, ethnic, cultural, women’s, seniors’ and anti-poverty groups recently made the same charge at a meeting with the Sun editorial board.

OHC executive director Natalie Mehra accused the Wynne government of creating a permanent crisis in health-care funding, designed to keep healthcare providers in perpetual uncertainty, while the Liberals starve the system of cash.

 

[eflatminor]

The VA is underfunded and understaffed. Any fool can see that. They give first rate care, but the VA was never intended to look after and unending number of war wounded which is the result of 15 years of continuous war by the US government.

What's worse is the same politicians who had no hesitation to send these people into harms way, then reneg on their promises to look after. Canada has been no better in than the US in that regard.

However, health care for the masses is worse, and the paperwork goes on forever.

Again.......you want the same politicians and bureaucrats who set up the VA medical system to control your healthcare...right?

I'm a Canadian living in Canada. I've had 100% government funded health care since I was a child. It's a whole lot BETTER than the mess you have.

Medicare and the VA are function a whole lot better than your private insurance system, and they're a whole lot cheaper.

Cheaper....? Only because the do not pay the Doctors the actual cost of the treatment. They pay only a portion of the fee and stick the Doctors with the rest, that is why a lot of Doctors do not Accept those patients......and the Canadian healthcare system is collapsing like all the other social welfare state healthcare systems.....

The "actual cost of treatment", does that include insurance company administration fees, CEO salaries and profits for the shareholders? The rest of the world does it better, and cheaper than the US, and we cover ALL of our citizens - every single one of them. Everyone gets the same quality of basic treatment, and we don't have co-pays, paperwork, or bills from our doctor. There are more expensive additions you can make, but no one is forced to use emergency rooms or "free clinics" for care.

The Canadian health care system is strong and well maintained. The proof is that Canadians are outliving Americans, and that Canadians are universally reporting high satisfaction rates with their health care, as is most of the rest of the First World. When Americans complain about health care, it isn't Medicare they complain about. They complain about insurance companies denying coverage, of mountains of paperwork fighting insurance company denials, high co-pays, pre-approvals for treatment and the myriad ways for-profit health care adds to the costs and stress of illness. None of which the rest of the world deals with under single payer.

In the USA before Obamacare, 45,000 people per year died because of lack of access to health care. But since these were poor people, or people who had "maxxed out" their coverages, most Americans don't care.

But keep believing the lies your for-profit medical industrial complex feeds you about the horrors of health care in other countries. The rest of the world can't believe you're so gullible. OTOH, you elected Trump so your level of intelligence and gullibility is highly suspect.

Yeah...keep telling yourself that....

Canada....

If Universal Health Care Is The Goal, Don't Copy Canada

Amongst industrialized countries -- members of the OECD -- with universal health care, Canada has the second most expensive health care system as a share of the economy after adjusting for age. This is not necessarily a problem, however, depending on the value received for such spending. As countries become richer, citizens may choose to allocate a larger portion of their income to health care. However, such expenditures are a problem when they are not matched by value.
The most visible manifestation of Canada’s failing health care system are wait times for health care services. In 2013, Canadians, on average, faced a four and a half month wait for medically necessary treatment after referral by a general practitioner. This wait time is almost twice as long as it was in 1993 when national wait times were first measured.
--------

Long wait times in Canada have also been observed for basic diagnostic imaging technologies that Americans take for granted, which are crucial for determining the severity of a patient’s condition. In 2013, the average wait time for an MRI was over two months, while Canadians needing a CT scan waited for almost a month.

These wait times are not simply “minor inconveniences.” Patients experience physical pain and suffering, mental anguish, and lost economic productivity while waiting for treatment. One recent estimate (2013) found that the value of time lost due to medical wait times in Canada amounted to approximately $1,200 per patient.

There is also considerable evidence indicating that excessive wait times lead to poorer health outcomes and in some cases, death. Dr. Brian Day, former head of the Canadian Medical Association recently noted that “[d]elayed care often transforms an acute and potentially reversible illness or injury into a chronic, irreversible condition that involves permanent disability.”

And more on Canada...


The Ugly Truth About Canadian Health Care

Mountain-bike enthusiast Suzanne Aucoin had to fight more than her Stage IV colon cancer. Her doctor suggested Erbitux—a proven cancer drug that targets cancer cells exclusively, unlike conventional chemotherapies that more crudely kill all fast-growing cells in the body—and Aucoin went to a clinic to begin treatment. But if Erbitux offered hope, Aucoin’s insurance didn’t: she received one inscrutable form letter after another, rejecting her claim for reimbursement. Yet another example of the callous hand of managed care, depriving someone of needed medical help, right? Guess again. Erbitux is standard treatment, covered by insurance companies—in the United States. Aucoin lives in Ontario, Canada.

When Aucoin appealed to an official ombudsman, the Ontario government claimed that her treatment was unproven and that she had gone to an unaccredited clinic. But the FDA in the U.S. had approved Erbitux, and her clinic was a cancer center affiliated with a prominent Catholic hospital in Buffalo. This January, the ombudsman ruled in Aucoin’s favor, awarding her the cost of treatment. She represents a dramatic new trend in Canadian health-care advocacy: finding the treatment you need in another country, and then fighting Canadian bureaucrats (and often suing) to get them to pick up the tab.

And the truth.......that Canadians don't see until it is too late.....

My health-care prejudices crumbled not in the classroom but on the way to one. On a subzero Winnipeg morning in 1997, I cut across the hospital emergency room to shave a few minutes off my frigid commute. Swinging open the door, I stepped into a nightmare: the ER overflowed with elderly people on stretchers, waiting for admission. Some, it turned out, had waited five days. The air stank with sweat and urine. Right then, I began to reconsider everything that I thought I knew about Canadian health care. I soon discovered that the problems went well beyond overcrowded ERs. Patients had to wait for practically any diagnostic test or procedure, such as the man with persistent pain from a hernia operation whom we referred to a pain clinic—with a three-year wait list; or the woman needing a sleep study to diagnose what seemed like sleep apnea, who faced a two-year delay; or the woman with breast cancer who needed to wait four months for radiation therapy, when the standard of care was four weeks.

There's something else about the Canadian system and all so-called single payer systems that I will never support: theft.

Medical care is someone else's labor and capital. They have no moral right to demand healthcare from me (that's slavery or at least indentured servitude) nor to take from my wallet to pay for it, which is simple theft. I have no moral right to rob the grocery store because I am hungry.

I would humbly suggest that any idea that absolutely requires mandatory compliance, enforced by armed government agents is fundamentally immoral and anathema to the notion of freedom.

It must be resisted.

But to the left, violating another's rights in pursuing their own needs is acceptable. They are an immoral people. Further, their meddling creates over-demand and under-supply, further exacerbating the rationing required when free people making voluntary decisions are removed from the equation. This of course, produces exactly the opposite of the effect they’re trying to create. To the left, intentions outweigh results. They are also an irrational people.

 

[Rambunctious]

Obama care in California is robbing people. $900 a month for a single man without subsidies. That is three car payments. It's half a mortgage payment and some mother fer should go to jail for this. it's absolutely theft.

 

[Toronado3800]

Obama care in California is robbing people. $900 a month for a single man without subsidies. That is three car payments. It's half a mortgage payment and some mother fer should go to jail for this. it's absolutely theft.

Who is charging $900 a month again?

 

[Rambunctious]

Who is charging $900 a month again?

Blue shield and the only choice in Covered California's /Obama care for people with preexisting issues. Look it up and learn.

 

[Toronado3800]

Who is charging $900 a month again?

Blue shield and the only choice in Covered California's /Obama care for people with preexisting issues. Look it up and learn.

Blue shield is the ONLY insurance company in California?

Really?

I haven't been to California in several years. They might be. Death Valley is pretty neat btw.

I just don't believe Blue shield is the only insurance company, but maybe.

 

[Picaro]

Like I said, insurance companies have monopolies in most states, with no competition from outside the state in most cases. Obamacare didn't change that set up, state legs have to, and guess which industry is always a big contributor to political campaigns?

 

[Picaro]

Who is charging $900 a month again?

Blue shield and the only choice in Covered California's /Obama care for people with preexisting issues. Look it up and learn.

Blue shield is the ONLY insurance company in California?

Really?

I haven't been to California in several years. They might be. Death Valley is pretty neat btw.

I just don't believe Blue shield is the only insurance company, but maybe.

If there is more than one, they collude to fix prices. There is no nationwide competition in the health insurance industry. Most of the plans are tied to HMO's, which rarely operate nationwide, either.