If Hobby Lobby wins...

[manifold]

Nothing Ironic about it. It's pretty much their goals to eliminate the choices of others.

To be fair, I don't think that's their goal. I think they just don't see the difference between the demands of an employer and the state. They see all of us as destined to submit, it's just a question of whom we will submit to. And they prefer the state because we at least have some control over it via the democratic process.

Thanks unfortunately this point will be ignored. With a company you have no democratic process so what they say goes and if you dont like it then tough. You can not go there or work there. Understood. With the state you have some sort of direct recourse. Vote them out.

But they wont touch your point. Flaming talking points and name calling is what they are interested in really

If you actually believe that voting out politicians is a more immediate and pragmatic agent of change than commercial boycotts then you're dumber than a box of used condoms. No offense.

 

[guno]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? Or have a certain diet?

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways? Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods? Could a vegan make their stores meat free? Even their employees lunches?

Where does it stop? Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

It should stop now!! what next a Jehovah witness who owns a business refusing to provide medical insurance for their employees that contains blood transfusions .

its time that we stop catering to these magical thinking lunatics who want to force their delusions on their employees

 

[ClosedCaption]

No. A vegan grocery store IS meat free. Veganism isn't a religion, although it may act like one. A vegan store would NOT be required to buy ham sandwiches for their employees, not even if the store normally pays for employee lunches. There are 16 methods of birth control that HL agrees to cover. It will not cover medications that induce abortion, nor will it cover medications used to end life for euthanasia. Liberals want to refashion this controversy into one in which HL fires women who use birth control and prohibits the use of birth control by their employees. That's not it. If you want further explanation of why you are full of crap. Should an employer cover natural healing methods to the exclusion of prescription medications? Should an atheist employer be required to pay for "faith" healing and pay the healer of a Jehovah's Witness?

Heres the rub and correct me if I'm wrong (because I'm a nice guy like that). Hobby Lobby BELIEVES that some cause abortion but technically it doesnt. But because they believe it does they dont want to offer it even if they're belief is not factual. They incorrectly label some as being abortive when they are not.

So, if true. Facts dont matter really, you can just label something whatever you want and if that label oversteps your belief you dont have to offer it.

Its slippery as shit.

You are wrong, the drugs they object to DO cause abortions. Its not a belief, its a fact.

It turns out that the politically charged debate over morning-after pills and abortion, a divisive issue in this election year, is probably rooted in outdated or incorrect scientific guesses about how the pills work. Because they block creation of fertilized eggs, they would not meet abortion opponents’ definition of abortion-inducing drugs. In contrast, RU-486, a medication prescribed for terminating pregnancies, destroys implanted embryos.

The notion that morning-after pills prevent eggs from implanting stems from the Food and Drug Administration’s decision during the drug-approval process to mention that possibility on the label — despite lack of scientific proof, scientists say, and objections by the manufacturer of Plan B, the pill on the market the longest. Leading scientists say studies since then provide strong evidence that Plan B does not prevent implantation, and no proof that a newer type of pill, Ella, does. Some abortion opponents said they remain unconvinced.

After The Times asked about this issue, A.D.A.M., the firm that writes medical entries for the National Institutes of Health Web site, deleted passages suggesting emergency contraceptives could disrupt implantation. The Times, which uses A.D.A.M.’s content on its health Web page, updated its site. The medical editor in chief of the Web site for the Mayo Clinic, Dr. Roger W. Harms, said “we are champing at the bit” to revise the entry if the Food and Drug Administration changes labels or other agencies make official pronouncements.

“These medications are there to prevent or delay ovulation,” said Dr. Petra M. Casey, an obstetrician-gynecologist at Mayo. “They don’t act after fertilization.”

The F.D.A. declined to discuss decisions about the effect on implantation or to say whether it would consider revising labels. But Erica Jefferson, an F.D.A. spokeswoman, acknowledged: “The emerging data on Plan B suggest that it does not inhibit implantation. Less is known about Ella. However, some data suggest it also does not inhibit implantation.”

Scientists say the pills work up to five days after sex, primarily stalling an egg’s release until sperm can no longer fertilize it. Although many people think sperm and egg unite immediately after sex, sperm need time to position themselves.

Maybe this is another case where we hear dont care about science based on the scientist

 

[ClosedCaption]

To be fair, I don't think that's their goal. I think they just don't see the difference between the demands of an employer and the state. They see all of us as destined to submit, it's just a question of whom we will submit to. And they prefer the state because we at least have some control over it via the democratic process.

Thanks unfortunately this point will be ignored. With a company you have no democratic process so what they say goes and if you dont like it then tough. You can not go there or work there. Understood. With the state you have some sort of direct recourse. Vote them out.

But they wont touch your point. Flaming talking points and name calling is what they are interested in really

If you actually believe that voting out politicians is a more immediate and pragmatic agent of change than commercial boycotts then you're dumber than a box of used condoms. No offense.

Are you physically unable to insult people or provide supporting evidence to anything? Or are we going on the rule where you just say it and therefore it is?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

If Hobby Lobby wins will liberals have simultaneous heart attacks nation wide?

 

[dblack]

Nothing Ironic about it. It's pretty much their goals to eliminate the choices of others.

To be fair, I don't think that's their goal. I think they just don't see the difference between the demands of an employer and the state. They see all of us as destined to submit, it's just a question of whom we will submit to. And they prefer the state because we at least have some control over it via the democratic process.

Thanks unfortunately this point will be ignored. With a company you have no democratic process so what they say goes and if you dont like it then tough. You can not go there or work there. Understood. With the state you have some sort of direct recourse. Vote them out.

But that gives us, essentially, one choice - whatever the majority decides. And compels all of us to go along with it. What's wrong with allowing all of us, as individuals, to decide who we are willing to work with and under what conditions?

 

[Edgetho]

If Hobby Lobby wins will liberals have simultaneous heart attacks nation wide?

One can only hope

 

[manifold]

Thanks unfortunately this point will be ignored. With a company you have no democratic process so what they say goes and if you dont like it then tough. You can not go there or work there. Understood. With the state you have some sort of direct recourse. Vote them out.

But they wont touch your point. Flaming talking points and name calling is what they are interested in really

If you actually believe that voting out politicians is a more immediate and pragmatic agent of change than commercial boycotts then you're dumber than a box of used condoms. No offense.

Are you physically unable to insult people or provide supporting evidence to anything? Or are we going on the rule where you just say it and therefore it is?

Are you mentally incapable of reading or writing coherent sentences?

Incumbents get re-elected more than 90% of the time.

Boycotts work, often within a few days.

Facts, not opinion.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

This situation reminds me when they all went ape shit over Chic Fil A

 

[Spiderman]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? Or have a certain diet?

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways? Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods? Could a vegan make their stores meat free? Even their employees lunches?

Where does it stop? Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

It's only a matter of time before the government mandates dietary requirements.

The whole argument is stupid since most so called religious people use birth control, have sex outside of marriage and in general piss all over the ten commandments on a daily basis.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? Or have a certain diet?

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways? Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods? Could a vegan make their stores meat free? Even their employees lunches?

Where does it stop? Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

It's only a matter of time before the government mandates dietary requirements.

The whole argument is stupid since most so called religious people use birth control, have sex outside of marriage and in general piss all over the ten commandments on a daily basis.

Let's apply your argument to obamacare since the very administration that created it is PISSING all over their own law and arbitrarily changing it without congressional approval.

Seems fitting

 

[Spiderman]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? Or have a certain diet?

Could any other owner force his beliefs on his employees in other ways? Could the owner who doesnt believe in prescription meds opt out of it all together and argue for "natural healing" methods? Could a vegan make their stores meat free? Even their employees lunches?

Where does it stop? Or a better question, WHAT makes it stop?

It's only a matter of time before the government mandates dietary requirements.

The whole argument is stupid since most so called religious people use birth control, have sex outside of marriage and in general piss all over the ten commandments on a daily basis.

Let's apply your argument to obamacare since the very administration that created it is PISSING all over their own law and arbitrarily changing it without congressional approval.

Seems fitting

I'm not in favor of obama care i just think citing religious reasons is stupid.

I would want proof that the business owners never ever serve anyone who sins, or never ever sin themselves before i would give their excuse any credence at all.

 

[Little-Acorn]

It's only a matter of time before the government mandates dietary requirements.

That was one of the purposes for the leftists' imposing government-mandated health care.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Then whats stopping them from requiring everyone to say the lords prayer before work? ?

With that one you're forgetting who you're talking to. Most conservatives around here believe an employer should have that right.

Remember, conservatives WANT to bring back discrimination. They were in fact mostly for it when it existed in the past.

Only nowadays they've tried to put it in a costume of 'freedom' or 'liberty'.

 

[dblack]

It's only a matter of time before the government mandates dietary requirements.

The whole argument is stupid since most so called religious people use birth control, have sex outside of marriage and in general piss all over the ten commandments on a daily basis.

Let's apply your argument to obamacare since the very administration that created it is PISSING all over their own law and arbitrarily changing it without congressional approval.

Seems fitting

I'm not in favor of obama care i just think citing religious reasons is stupid..

The reasons shouldn't matter at all.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

It's only a matter of time before the government mandates dietary requirements.

The whole argument is stupid since most so called religious people use birth control, have sex outside of marriage and in general piss all over the ten commandments on a daily basis.

Let's apply your argument to obamacare since the very administration that created it is PISSING all over their own law and arbitrarily changing it without congressional approval.

Seems fitting

I'm not in favor of obama care i just think citing religious reasons is stupid.

I would want proof that the business owners never ever serve anyone who sins, or never ever sin themselves before i would give their excuse any credence at all.

Well in that case since I think gay marriage is stupid it should not be allowed. Right?

 

[Zander]

No one can force beliefs on employees because no one is obligated to become the employee of someone else.

Heres the rub tho. What if more employers start imposing more "beliefs"? And a few turn to hundreds? The rule still applies that no one HAS to work there but many will have to work somewhere which means some will be exposed to it.

Does the worker lose their right to the CEO's belief?

Just pretend it's Muslims. All better?

 

[ClosedCaption]

To be fair, I don't think that's their goal. I think they just don't see the difference between the demands of an employer and the state. They see all of us as destined to submit, it's just a question of whom we will submit to. And they prefer the state because we at least have some control over it via the democratic process.

Thanks unfortunately this point will be ignored. With a company you have no democratic process so what they say goes and if you dont like it then tough. You can not go there or work there. Understood. With the state you have some sort of direct recourse. Vote them out.

But that gives us, essentially, one choice - whatever the majority decides. And compels all of us to go along with it. What's wrong with allowing all of us, as individuals, to decide who we are willing to work with and under what conditions?

I agree to a point but What stops this from snowballing into other CEO's and their beliefs (whether factual or not) affecting all of their employees. Hobby Lobby wont be the first or last if nothing stops anyone from doing anything all in the name of "believing" and placing those requirements on everyone company wide.

Basically the argument is that CEO's have more say than employees because they have a business, basically...right?

 

[Freewill]

Heres the rub tho. What if more employers start imposing more "beliefs"? And a few turn to hundreds? The rule still applies that no one HAS to work there but many will have to work somewhere which means some will be exposed to it.

Does the worker lose their right to the CEO's belief?

you have no idea what the case is about. Its not about an employer imposing his views on his employees--------its about the government imposing its views on the people.

Hobby Lobby has no objection to its insurance covering birth control, it objects only to paying for abortion inducing drugs, because the owners believe that abortion is murder.

Hobby Lobby will win this one.

CC knows exactly what the case is about. Exactly.

He is a lying scumbag that is here ONLY to incite flame wars and hurt the board.

The piece of shit needs to go away.

Permanently

It is more then that, in my opinion. It has to do with the liberals insatiable need to win at all costs.

Do they really care about if HL pays for abortion pills, I seriously doubt it they are readily available. But the liberal left can't stand someone not doing as they are told. They hold to their religion just a tightly as any religious person I have ever seen. They MUST make HL bow down to their demands, the liberal MUST win.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Yes.

At the end of the day you can always choose to work somewhere else.

What you can't do, at least not pragmatically, is choose to live under a different government.

North Korea turn down your request for clemency, AGAIN Mani?