If a Corporation claims the rights of an individual, then it must be taxed that way

[Vast LWC]

Just when I thought you couldn't possible get any more obtuse, you go an say something like this , again I ask does that mean the unemployed or those that choose not to pay consumption taxes by providing their own material needs have no rights ?

I think you are must be intentionally attempting to appear simple because nobody could possibly be as dumb as what you appear to be using the line of reasoning you are currently pursuing.

Allow me to quote from a rather famous document that may turn on a light bulb or two for you ..

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

ringing any bells yet?

Yes, yes that's all very nice...

But it is the United States that protects those rights that are "endowed by their Creator", and allows you to exercise those rights.

And it is TAXES that pay for that protection.

Therefore, to enjoy those rights, it is every citizens duty to pay their taxes.

 

[Vast LWC]

LOL, no kidding, why do you think our American Businesses are getting their @sses handed to them by foreign corporations that do not have to bare our outrageous tax burdens and our high wage levels? they can only raise prices, reduce quality, lower wages and reduce investor returns so much before taxation and regulation forces them to become uncompetitive, move offshore or go out of business.

Businesses do not print their own money to pay tribute to Uncle Sam therefor it has to come from some place or did you honestly believe they just summoned it out of thin air?

Actually, due to loopholes and corporate tax breaks, most corporations pay hardly any taxes at all on average.

What I've suggested wouldn't change that one bit, as long as they stayed out of politics.

 

[Vast LWC]

So you didnt propose a two-tier tax system for corporations based on whether they engage in political speech or not? Did I just make that up?

So now you want to raise corporate levels to that of individuals, effectively taxing that income twice: once as profit to the corporation and again as income to the workers.
Yeah, higher taxes. That's a real economic booster.

No corporation will have to pay taxes, so long as they do not engage in politics.

No corporation will want to engage in politics because of the profits they will lose, and no stockholder will allow a corporation to do so for fear of losing their dividends.

Individuals who hold stock in the corporation will still be free to make individual donations, as is every independent citizen.

But the entire Lobbying industry will disappear overnight.

 

[Vast LWC]

Many corporations in the USA pay no income tax at all.

Hey, Einstein... NONE OF THEM PAY TAXES. YOU PAY THE TAXES AS THE TAXES ARE BUILT INTO THE PRICE YOU PAY FOR THEIR GOODS.

They only act as tax collectors... FROM YOU.

But they will not pass on the tax charges, because they will be unwilling to pay the taxes in the first place, because if they do, then any competition that they have that does not pay the tax will UNDERSELL THEM.

Thus we won't be paying for anything.

 

[MIPS]

Just when I thought you couldn't possible get any more obtuse, you go an say something like this , again I ask does that mean the unemployed or those that choose not to pay consumption taxes by providing their own material needs have no rights ?

I think you are must be intentionally attempting to appear simple because nobody could possibly be as dumb as what you appear to be using the line of reasoning you are currently pursuing.

Allow me to quote from a rather famous document that may turn on a light bulb or two for you ..

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

ringing any bells yet?

Yes, yes that's all very nice...

But it is the United States that protects those rights that are "endowed by their Creator", and allows you to exercise those rights.

And it is TAXES that pay for that protection.

Therefore, to enjoy those rights, it is every citizens duty to pay their taxes.

Apaprently you just cannot grasp the concept of natural rights and how our government was instituted, so this is the last time I'm going to attempt to simplify what should otherwise be readily apparent to you.

American Citizens that pay nothing into "the system" enjoy all the same protections and RIGHTS as American Citizens that do pay into the "the system", anything else would be absolutely ludicrous since, as I have already said, using your twisted logic the unemployed, the poor, the disabled, students, children, etc..etc.., wouldn't have any rights or protections which is clearly not the case.

Do you get it now? because if you don't, nothing short of a brain transplant is going to help you understand it.

 

[The Rabbi]

So you didnt propose a two-tier tax system for corporations based on whether they engage in political speech or not? Did I just make that up?

So now you want to raise corporate levels to that of individuals, effectively taxing that income twice: once as profit to the corporation and again as income to the workers.
Yeah, higher taxes. That's a real economic booster.

No corporation will have to pay taxes, so long as they do not engage in politics.

No corporation will want to engage in politics because of the profits they will lose, and no stockholder will allow a corporation to do so for fear of losing their dividends.

Individuals who hold stock in the corporation will still be free to make individual donations, as is every independent citizen.

But the entire Lobbying industry will disappear overnight.

So now you're proposing to abolish the present corporate tax structure? I'd applaud that!
But you want to put a tax on political speech. How is that reasonable??
And if you think lobbying will disappear you are even dumber and less informed than I thought 2 hours ago.

 

[Maple]

Well, here's an idea:

Step 1: Create a top tier income tax rate of 40% for all individuals making $200 Million a year or more.

Step 2: Create legislation stating that if any Corporation claims the rights of an individual in order to engage in the political process, then they also are subject to income tax AS AN INDIVIDUAL.

Step 3: Create a separate legislation that any Corporation engaging in the political process gives up any corporate tax breaks or loopholes, as they are effectively becoming an individual. You could create a new class of corporation. Call it the "Corporate Individual" or something like that.

This would effectively bar corporations from getting involved in the political process, as their shareholders would never allow it.

And, hell, if we wanted to take this to it's logical conclusion, we could also apply it to media corporations.

And best of all, it would all be perfectly constitutional, and would not require overturning the SCOTUS' decision.

Whadya all think?

Do you have a job or work??? Another name for corporations is JOBS, they are the Job creators. The Scotus amendment is about FREE SPEECH- Unions have been allowed to donate millions to primarily democratic campaigns, Obama got 60 million from the Unions. It is only fair and equitable that business can promote and donate to campaigns and politicians that are PRO-BUSINESS.

You tax the JOB CREATORS and they lay people off.

 

[Vast LWC]

Apaprently you just cannot grasp the concept of natural rights and how our government was instituted, so this is the last time I'm going to attempt to simplify what should otherwise be readily apparent to you.

American Citizens that pay nothing into "the system" enjoy all the same protections and RIGHTS as American Citizens that do pay into the "the system", anything else would be absolutely ludicrous since, as I have already said, using your twisted logic the unemployed, the poor, the disabled, students, children, etc..etc.., wouldn't have any rights or protections which is clearly not the case.

Do you get it now? because if you don't, nothing short of a brain transplant is going to help you understand it.

But that is only because they have been specifically exempted from paying taxes by lawmakers. They are exceptions, due to hardship, not the rule.

And if they started making an appreciable income, they would be charged taxes on it, just like any other citizen. And if they did not pay those taxes, they would lose their rights, the same as anyone else.

Thus they are in fact, just as liable as everyone else, they are simply being given a (hopefully temporary) stay on their responsibilities by congress.

Certainly Multi-Billion dollar corporations have an income, and are not hardship cases, and if they are in fact to be considered citizens, then it is their responsibility to pay the same taxes as everyone else unless specifically exempted by congress.

 

[Vast LWC]

So now you're proposing to abolish the present corporate tax structure? I'd applaud that!
But you want to put a tax on political speech. How is that reasonable??
And if you think lobbying will disappear you are even dumber and less informed than I thought 2 hours ago.

How is applying the exact same income tax that everyone else in the nation pays "Putting a tax on political speech"?

If that were the case, then right now, that "tax on political speech" is being applied to all the actual human citizens of the nation, and "corporate citizens" are getting off nearly scott free, as tax loopholes pretty much keep corporate taxes near nil.

 

[Vast LWC]

Do you have a job or work??? Another name for corporations is JOBS, they are the Job creators. The Scotus amendment is about FREE SPEECH- Unions have been allowed to donate millions to primarily democratic campaigns, Obama got 60 million from the Unions. It is only fair and equitable that business can promote and donate to campaigns and politicians that are PRO-BUSINESS.

You tax the JOB CREATORS and they lay people off.

I'm not suggesting taxing any job creators, I'm suggesting stopping them from unduly influencing the Democratic Process.

No-one would have their jobs affected by this, as long as the corporations they worked for did not engage in politics. And you can be quite sure that shareholders would never allow this to happen.

As far as the employees go, they are, again, free to engage in the process as citizens, as they always have been.

And as I suggested several times, Unions and other special interests should be subjected to the same tax, just to be fair.

 

[Maple]

Paying taxes is a prerequisite for staying out of prison.

Really? so the unemployed are sent directly to jail now?

If they don't pay their taxes on their unemployment benefits, yes. If they don't pay their payroll taxes on income, yes.

According to the law, taxation is based on income. Therefore each person MUST pay taxes according to their income level.

As I stated earlier, I would be happy with a flat tax that included payroll taxes and all other forms of taxation, like capital gains and sales tax, but that is a whole other conversation.

Capital gains taxes? that will limit investment and reduce growth and jobs, it always has. You need to take an econ 101 class along with Obama, maybe you two can end up in the same class, wouldn't that be wonderful.


I want a flat 10% tax. If you make a dollar you pay a dime, if you make 100 you pay 10. It's fair and equitable, right now only the top 40% of wage earners pay any federal income tax. They support this country and all 76% of entitlement programs and they are going broke doing it. Those evil corporations pay the 2nd highest tax in the world in the U.S, that's much of the reason they take their business's and go over-seas with them.

 

[The Rabbi]

So now you're proposing to abolish the present corporate tax structure? I'd applaud that!
But you want to put a tax on political speech. How is that reasonable??
And if you think lobbying will disappear you are even dumber and less informed than I thought 2 hours ago.

How is applying the exact same income tax that everyone else in the nation pays "Putting a tax on political speech"?

If that were the case, then right now, that "tax on political speech" is being applied to all the actual human citizens of the nation, and "corporate citizens" are getting off nearly scott free, as tax loopholes pretty much keep corporate taxes near nil.

Are you senile? You jsut proposed that corporations pay no income tax. But if they engage in constitutionally protected free speech then they will have to pay taxes. That isn't "the exact same income tax that everyone else in the nation pays". That's a two tier system for corporations.

A very large number of people in this country pay no income tax at all. Are they not entitled to free speech? A large number of people here aren't even U.S citizens. Are they not entitled to free speech? A large number of people are illegal aliens, are they not entitled to free speech?
You don't have a clue. You don't even know what you're saying, much less anything else.

 

[Oddball]

 

[Maple]

So now you're proposing to abolish the present corporate tax structure? I'd applaud that!
But you want to put a tax on political speech. How is that reasonable??
And if you think lobbying will disappear you are even dumber and less informed than I thought 2 hours ago.

How is applying the exact same income tax that everyone else in the nation pays "Putting a tax on political speech"?

If that were the case, then right now, that "tax on political speech" is being applied to all the actual human citizens of the nation, and "corporate citizens" are getting off nearly scott free, as tax loopholes pretty much keep corporate taxes near nil.

Again, corporations pay the 2nd highest tax rate in the world in the U.S, they are the JOB- CREATORS- they already pay 35% in taxes, you tax them more, they move overseas or it stifles their growth and that means more unemployment and less jobs here in the U.S.

 

[Maple]

So now you're proposing to abolish the present corporate tax structure? I'd applaud that!
But you want to put a tax on political speech. How is that reasonable??
And if you think lobbying will disappear you are even dumber and less informed than I thought 2 hours ago.

How is applying the exact same income tax that everyone else in the nation pays "Putting a tax on political speech"?

If that were the case, then right now, that "tax on political speech" is being applied to all the actual human citizens of the nation, and "corporate citizens" are getting off nearly scott free, as tax loopholes pretty much keep corporate taxes near nil.

Again, corporations pay the 2nd highest tax rate in the world in the U.S, they are the JOB- CREATORS- they already pay 35% in taxes, you tax them more, they move overseas or it stifles their growth and that means more unemployment and less jobs here in the U.S.

US Tax Services: How much do large US companies pay in taxes?


These non-income taxes include customs duties and state and local property and gross receipts taxes. Companies also serve as tax collectors for government, remitting $169 of sales, excise, withholding and other taxes imposed on customers and employees for every $100 of corporate income taxes paid by survey participants. The total tax contribution report also finds that the total tax rate of US survey participants averaged 36% — one of the highest rates among countries where similar surveys have been conducted.

These results are explained in part by the United States ranking as the country with the second highest corporate tax rate among the 30 OECD member countries and the relatively heavy reliance in the United States on taxes borne by business (such as corporate income tax) rather than taxes collected (such as sales tax).This report is intended to inform the debate on companies’ contributions to government revenues and the competitiveness of the US tax system by providing data on taxes paid by America’s largest companies


CORPORATIONS =======JOBS.

 

[Vast LWC]

Capital gains taxes? that will limit investment and reduce growth and jobs, it always has. You need to take an econ 101 class along with Obama, maybe you two can end up in the same class, wouldn't that be wonderful.


I want a flat 10% tax. If you make a dollar you pay a dime, if you make 100 you pay 10. It's fair and equitable, right now only the top 40% of wage earners pay any federal income tax. They support this country and all 76% of entitlement programs and they are going broke doing it. Those evil corporations pay the 2nd highest tax in the world in the U.S, that's much of the reason they take their business's and go over-seas with them.

On capital gains, up to a certain point you are correct. However, once it goes below a certain level, lowering the capital gains tax encourages Las Vegas style investment style, over-leveraging, giant stock market bubbles, and lack of anything ever actually getting created.

In the 6 years immediately preceding the Market Crash and the Great Depression, the Capital Gains tax was set at 12.5%. That is the only time in the 20th century the Cap Gains tax was below 20%.

For the 5 years preceding the market crash of 2007, the Capital Gains tax was set at 15%. What followed was almost the exact same circumstance.

Do you think that is a coincidence?


As far as the 10% tax goes, this wouldn't even pay for current military expenditures and interest on our existing Republican national debt.

The Laffer curve dictates that, given our current level of GDP relative to population, lowering taxes any further would not gain us any more revenue.

As far as the Econ 101 class goes, perhaps you might want to reconsider your evaluation of my supposed lack of knowledge...

 

[Vast LWC]

Again, corporations pay the 2nd highest tax rate in the world in the U.S, they are the JOB- CREATORS- they already pay 35% in taxes, you tax them more, they move overseas or it stifles their growth and that means more unemployment and less jobs here in the U.S.

OK, first of all that link includes SALES TAX and Payroll Tax as taxes on corporations, instead of on the consumer and the employee. What a crock.

Secondly, the figures are taken BEFORE corporate tax loopholes and tax breaks occur.

And, if your interpretation is correct, and mine is not, then the new law won't affect corporations at all, so they'll have nothing to worry about, will they?

LOL.

 

[Vast LWC]

And you can be damn sure that if American businesses move to, say, China, then they definitely wouldn't have any part in politics at all.

The Chinese would tell them to shut up or go fuck themselves, and they might just shoot them for good measure.

 

[Ravi]

Corporate taxes are actually pretty low in comparison with other countries.

The real reason corps relocate off shore is because the cost of living is cheaper and therefore their operating costs are cheaper. So in a way, we pay for our prosperity...because while they have managed to cut their costs they still charge us high prices. In reality, without us buying their trash, or the residents of other wealthy nations buying their trash, they would perish.

 

[Vast LWC]

I'm not really seeing any downsides to this plan. It removes corporations from the equation in a market oriented way consistent with the Court's latest decision.

And it's sure to have lots of populist appeal