Ideas for fixing minimum wage.

[danielpalos]

Small businesses shouldn't have a minimum wage, but government should pump it up to 15, while corporations should have a 15 hour wage because they can afford it.

Which small businesses can't afford a $15.00/hr minimum wage?

The concept of a minimum wage hurts small businesses much more than large corporations

Capitalists should not look for cheap labor to make it in the First World. It should be an economic paradigm.

 

[Toronado3800]

I could care less about their careers. That is a debate for another topic. I just don't want to pay Congressmen to debate how much to raise it every 10 or 15 years, raise it, then it lowers itself, then raise it again.

Minimum wage is there as a redistribution tool. America has been down this road before when moving to the wild and braving the natives was better than conditions in the Industrial Revolution. Myself, I don' think the human condition has changed that much. When things get changed by more than 3% it disrupts the system.

Tell me how price fixing -the kind that would get me sued if it were done in the private sector- is supposed to help the situation.

You are not big government who says no one in your neighborhood can auction their property off as a nuclear waste dump. YOU have different rights than Uncle Sam. Sorry, conservatively its the way it is.

Minimum wage provides a bottom rung at the negotiation table between labor and management. No matter how badly some schmuck needs a job you must pay them a certain amount. Keeps the desperate from negotiating against eachother like cities do with NFL stadiums.

 

[Oddball]

You are not big government who says no one in your neighborhood can auction their property off as a nuclear waste dump. YOU have different rights than Uncle Sam. Sorry, conservatively its the way it is.

This is relevant how?

Minimum wage provides a bottom rung at the negotiation table between labor and management. No matter how badly some schmuck needs a job you must pay them a certain amount. Keeps the desperate from negotiating against eachother like cities do with NFL stadiums.

I know that's the boilerplate rationale for price fixing labor used by the ruling class....The question that remains is how it's the role of The State to determine, especially when they have no proper frame of reference by which to set the price, and when you recognize that most of its thralls are in fact economic illiterates?

 

[BuckToothMoron]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

Or we could do away with the minimum wage and let people earn what they are worth.

 

[Toronado3800]

You are not big government who says no one in your neighborhood can auction their property off as a nuclear waste dump. YOU have different rights than Uncle Sam. Sorry, conservatively its the way it is.

This is relevant how?

Minimum wage provides a bottom rung at the negotiation table between labor and management. No matter how badly some schmuck needs a job you must pay them a certain amount. Keeps the desperate from negotiating against eachother like cities do with NFL stadiums.

I know that's the boilerplate rationale for price fixing labor used by the ruling class....The question that remains is how it's the role of The State to determine, especially when they have no proper frame of reference by which to set the price, and that most of its thralls are in fact economic illiterates?

The first part is relevant because you did not see the difference between yourself and the government in comment #130.

Ah, back the the America sucks argument, Reagan sucks, our military sucks, we never got to the moon. We didn't get the bomb first. This ain't the place to live if you had a choice. Then you'll call someone illiterate because they disagree with you. So, this America of the 19th Century conquests and the New Deal which ended up as the reigning super power sucks and we should abandon what we did to get where we are is your idea because.....well, you called the folks who got us there economic illiterates.

Since you are stuck on the topic, I think an economy with no government intervention is the stuff of idealistic dreams just like a functioning socialist world.

 

[Toronado3800]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

Or we could do away with the minimum wage and let people earn what they are worth.

That's a thought. Its radical and not how we have gotten where we are, but its a thought. I counter that the industrial revolution darn near led to world wide socialist revolutions. It did lead to a lot of labor "excitement" I don't want the next generation to have to revisit.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

Or we could do away with the minimum wage and let people earn what they are worth.

That's a thought. Its radical and not how we have gotten where we are, but its a thought. I counter that the industrial revolution darn near led to world wide socialist revolutions. It did lead to a lot of labor "excitement" I don't want the next generation to have to revisit.

Yeah, things have changed dramatically since the industrial revolution.

 

[Picaro]

Employers will never ever pay anybody 'what they're worth', they pay as little as they can, and don't have the least qualms about using govt. to drive down labor's bargaining power and keeping the power dynamics as far away from being 'equal' as they can. there is no 'free market checks and balances' in real life, not anywhere; only propagandists keep claiming there is.

 

[EasyPeasy]

I didn't realize t he MW was broken.

 

[Toronado3800]

I didn't realize t he MW was broken.

Its been a decade or so since it was raised and I seem to be stumbling into articles about raising it again is all. I'm looking to streamline the process.

 

[Toronado3800]

Strawman? Nope, post 135, you called the government whom you pointed out is us, a group of idiots. Economic illiterates to be exact thus making the statement we/America sucks. I pushed back. Sorry if it offended you to have that challenged.

Being an economic illiterate desn't make one an idiot...That's your straw man argument.

For your circular argument, follow the practical and see how the world really functions. Many folks do suck in some way or another. America was a country with institutional racism in the 50's. Uncle Sam himself sent the Band of Brothers to go desegregate Arkansas schools though intimidating their National Guard. It happened. So we latch onto something good and keep it.

I follow the practical without cherry picking...For every one upside you can name where The State has done something arguably good, I can come up with a slew of areas where they've totally failed, if they hadn't in fact caused the conditions that necessitated them as the "solution".

On the economic end some folks saw the near disaster of the industrial revolution and nationalization. After several decades the government started performing the functions of labor unions. Consider stupid OSHA is the government it is for the best. Could things be tweaked, sure but let's not abandon progress on a radical dream of an ideology which failed by the turn of the 20th century.

If the overbearing bureaucratic joke that is OSHA is gubmint at its best, you have a pretty weak argument in its favor from the outset.

But none of this folderol has anything to do with the minimum wage..Why are you derailing the conversation from that topic?

Just giving examples is all. After a dozen back n forths we maybe should agree to disagree so we can still join forces in the future against the Designated Hitter or whatever

 

[Toronado3800]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

Or we could do away with the minimum wage and let people earn what they are worth.

That's a thought. Its radical and not how we have gotten where we are, but its a thought. I counter that the industrial revolution darn near led to world wide socialist revolutions. It did lead to a lot of labor "excitement" I don't want the next generation to have to revisit.

Yeah, things have changed dramatically since the industrial revolution.

In healthcare yes, most other ways, I dunno. I have a longer term view on the human condition. Life just doesn't seem that different to me, just more refined versions of multi port injection is all. Maybe in a few years when we get self driving cars it will be like when you could hop on a cart and the horse would virtually keep you on the road.

 

[danielpalos]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

Or we could do away with the minimum wage and let people earn what they are worth.

it is too inefficient for ninety-nine percent. the Poor need an Institutional upward pressure on wages in our First World economy.

 

[danielpalos]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

Or we could do away with the minimum wage and let people earn what they are worth.

That's a thought. Its radical and not how we have gotten where we are, but its a thought. I counter that the industrial revolution darn near led to world wide socialist revolutions. It did lead to a lot of labor "excitement" I don't want the next generation to have to revisit.

the power to provide for the general welfare is General, not Common.

 

[Toronado3800]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

Or we could do away with the minimum wage and let people earn what they are worth.

That's a thought. Its radical and not how we have gotten where we are, but its a thought. I counter that the industrial revolution darn near led to world wide socialist revolutions. It did lead to a lot of labor "excitement" I don't want the next generation to have to revisit.

the power to provide for the general welfare is General, not Common.

I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at.

 

[danielpalos]

Employers will never ever pay anybody 'what they're worth', they pay as little as they can, and don't have the least qualms about using govt. to drive down labor's bargaining power and keeping the power dynamics as far away from being 'equal' as they can. there is no 'free market checks and balances' in real life, not anywhere; only propagandists keep claiming there is.

That is the reason for a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation at the equivalent to fourteen dollars an hour for simply being unemployed in our At-Will employment States.

 

[Andylusion]

I didn't realize t he MW was broken.

Its been a decade or so since it was raised and I seem to be stumbling into articles about raising it again is all. I'm looking to streamline the process.

Do you not know what happened last time we raised the minimum wage? You know, the great recession?

Why would you want to streamline something that wrecked the economy, and drove million into unemployment? We just got back down to full employment, and you want to completely undo all of the recovery? Why?

 

[Toronado3800]

I didn't realize t he MW was broken.

Its been a decade or so since it was raised and I seem to be stumbling into articles about raising it again is all. I'm looking to streamline the process.

Do you not know what happened last time we raised the minimum wage? You know, the great recession?

Why would you want to streamline something that wrecked the economy, and drove million into unemployment? We just got back down to full employment, and you want to completely undo all of the recovery? Why?

IF you think the cause of the housing bubble was the hike I think you should be for my plan.

My idea is to prevent these knee jerk hikes and just make it a smooth percentage every year. Whatever the GDP or CPI or board of directors pay or whatever goes up minimum wage goes up. This way there are no surges based on the whims of whoever is in Congress trying to win reelection.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

I didn't realize t he MW was broken.

Its been a decade or so since it was raised and I seem to be stumbling into articles about raising it again is all. I'm looking to streamline the process.

Do you not know what happened last time we raised the minimum wage? You know, the great recession?

Why would you want to streamline something that wrecked the economy, and drove million into unemployment? We just got back down to full employment, and you want to completely undo all of the recovery? Why?

Really? I am no fan of the minimum wage, but to suggest that raising it created the last recession is at best a stretch, and more likely completely unfounded.

 

[Andylusion]

I didn't realize t he MW was broken.

Its been a decade or so since it was raised and I seem to be stumbling into articles about raising it again is all. I'm looking to streamline the process.

Do you not know what happened last time we raised the minimum wage? You know, the great recession?

Why would you want to streamline something that wrecked the economy, and drove million into unemployment? We just got back down to full employment, and you want to completely undo all of the recovery? Why?

Really? I am no fan of the minimum wage, but to suggest that raising it created the last recession is at best a stretch, and more likely completely unfounded.

Completely unfounded? I think not. Why was the vast majority of job losses, at the lowest end of the income ladder?
Shockingly the same end of the income ladder that would be most affected by a minimum wage increase?

And here's another aspect.... Everyone accepts that there was a real-estate price bubble. But here's a question.... why did the bubble burst in 2007? Why that specific year? The bubble started in 1997. Why didn't it burst during the short recession of 2000? Or in 2004? Or 2006? Or why didn't it last until 2010? Or 2015, and explode then?

Why did it blow up in 2007? Why did the crash start on the exact year that we just happen to have a large increase in the minimum wage?

And one more point of interest. We have recovery bill, after recovery bill, and the recession got worse and worse. Bush passed recovery bills before leaving office. Obama passed recovery bills after taking office. Yet the unemployment rate increased year over year over year, until what year?

What year did the unemployment rate start to level off and drop? 2010. Fascinating.... that would be the very first year since 2007, that we didn't have an increase in the minimum wage.

Coincidence? That many coincidences?

And we could look at more local examples. Take the Ohio unemployment rate, compared to the US unemployment rate. In 2012 Ohio adopted a minimum wage indexed to inflation, and now our minimum wage is $8.30/hour. Unsurprisingly our unemployment rate is 4.5%, while the US average is 4%.