I will not Bow!
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1912? Are you a f*ing idiot?
Do you realize how many nations were dissolved and formed after WWs I & II?
Are you an absolute f*ing idiot?
1912? That's like saying every nation the Roman Empire absorbed has to go back to an Empire that no longer exists!
This is the least Jew Hating reference I could find besides Wikipedia...
Treaty of Lausanne in 1923 | Palestine Mandate
P F Tinmore
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LOL
Thamks for acknowledging that the Treaty of Lausanne says NOTHING about creating a state at all, therefore contradicting you original claim.
Fail!
P F Tinmore
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Where did I say that?
The documents themselves, or more precisely the parts you miss out that don't support your POV and the fact that the source is biased towards there being a Palestinian nation before there was a Jewish one.
Very disingenuous of you to copy and paste parts of sentences that taken as a whole would destroy your claims.
Here are your words were you say just that.
And the were. Palestine's international borders were defined.
The Palestinians were a distinct nationality.
The Palestinians were citizens of Palestine.
The Treaty of Lausanne was when these de facto characteristics became de jure.
NO just posting the truth and the reality, your source for your claim does not uphold your claim in the slightest. As in your claim that the treaty of Lausanne sets the borders and nationality of the part of Palestine you claim is a nation. The truth is the treaty of Lausanne sets the borders for the ottoman district of Palestine that includes what is now Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Israel, parts of Saudi Arabia and the unclaimed land of the west bank and gaza. Are you claiming that the Hostile arab terrorists hold title to that area of land that was detailed in the treaty of Lausanne ?
Andylusion
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I guess that really doesn't matter. Who is the ultimate authority over the land of Israel? G-d is. Not man. Man can make up whatever documents, or treaties, and all the ink on paper he wants.
Ultimately:
Numbers 34:1-12
New International Version (NIV)
Boundaries of Canaan
34 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Command the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you enter Canaan, the land that will be allotted to you as an inheritance is to have these boundaries:
3 “‘Your southern side will include some of the Desert of Zin along the border of Edom. Your southern boundary will start in the east from the southern end of the Dead Sea, 4 cross south of Scorpion Pass, continue on to Zin and go south of Kadesh Barnea. Then it will go to Hazar Addar and over to Azmon, 5 where it will turn, join the Wadi of Egypt and end at the Mediterranean Sea.
6 “‘Your western boundary will be the coast of the Mediterranean Sea. This will be your boundary on the west.
7 “‘For your northern boundary, run a line from the Mediterranean Sea to Mount Hor 8 and from Mount Hor to Lebo Hamath. Then the boundary will go to Zedad, 9 continue to Ziphron and end at Hazar Enan. This will be your boundary on the north.
10 “‘For your eastern boundary, run a line from Hazar Enan to Shepham. 11 The boundary will go down from Shepham to Riblah on the east side of Ain and continue along the slopes east of the Sea of Galilee.[a] 12 Then the boundary will go down along the Jordan and end at the Dead Sea.
“‘This will be your land, with its boundaries on every side.’”
G-d made it clear that this land was for Israel. That's who it belongs to. I don't give a crap about all your man made ideals.
G-d said this. This is why no matter how much opposition the Israelis have had from around the entire world, they have endured.
And by the way..... This is why the enemies of Israel, no matter how much land they do have, they only want what Israel has. Not because they oppose "The Jews™" It's because they oppose G-d himself. They don't want what G-d said to be true.
See that red speck in the middle of all the Green? That's Israel. All that Green, is the Islamic lands, which hate the Jews. The little red dot, is the tiny little nation of Israel where Jews can live.
There is absolutely no logical reason why Islamist can't enjoy the vast expansive lands they own, and only care about some tiny speck of a country called Israel.... except... they oppose G-d, and they HATE that G-d said that land was for the Jews.
That is all there is to it. That's why they are willing to sell their kids as suicide bombers.
Remember, there have been Jews in the land of Israel (Palestine), for over 2,000 years. The Islamists never had a problem with Jews being there, provided there was no country called "Israel". Why? Because they oppose G-d. They oppose Numbers 34:1-12.
And the bottom line is, the enemies of G-d will lose. They lost in 1948. They lost in 1967. They lost in 1973. They lost in 1982. And they *WILL* lose the next time too.
All of the world can join with the enemies of G-d, and they will lose with them.
And the truth is, if the USA, joins the enemies against Israel, we'll lose as well.
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P F Tinmore
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What did I leave out that would have changed the points I made?
What makes you say the source was biased? They sourced all the material they quoted and where I checked those sources their quotes were accurate.
Well ???
All the parts you deliberately missed out because they did not support your argument and POV.
Just look at the sourcde and you see that it is from a muslim who is biased by this very fact. He is incapable of giving a balanced objective argument in favour of his belief, he might of sourced all his material but that does not change the fact that he then gave his own BIASED slant on the material. When we checked his main source it did not say what he claimed it said. in fact it did not even mention Palestine at all. So his source was accurate but your source wasn't.
The time to raise such arguments in favor of Muslim-Arab Palestinian sovereignty over the whole of Old Palestine would have been May 14, 1948.
The first entry on a very long list of opportunities missed by the Palestinians since that date.
Far too late now.
Victories on the battlefield, political developments, land transfers (so-called legal and otherwise) and 66 years of custom and usage have set aside any such old (and, by now, entirely obsolete and inoperative) legal possibilities.
None of that old shit matters any longer.
Just as it didn't matter at the time when it might actually have done some good - the 1947-1949 timeframe.
The Jews of Old Palestine had their shit together.
The Muslims of Old Palestine didn't have a frigging clue.
And they - and their descendants - are paying the price for that ignorance and incompetency.
Nature has de-selected them.
The first entry on a very long list of opportunities missed by the Palestinians since that date.
Far too late now.
Victories on the battlefield, political developments, land transfers (so-called legal and otherwise) and 66 years of custom and usage have set aside any such old (and, by now, entirely obsolete and inoperative) legal possibilities.
None of that old shit matters any longer.
Just as it didn't matter at the time when it might actually have done some good - the 1947-1949 timeframe.
The Jews of Old Palestine had their shit together.
The Muslims of Old Palestine didn't have a frigging clue.
And they - and their descendants - are paying the price for that ignorance and incompetency.
Nature has de-selected them.
P F Tinmore
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The allied powers decided to break up the Ottoman Empire into successor states. They defined the borders of these new states. The nationality of the people inside those borders and their citizenship was determined by customary international law.
This is what they said about nationality.
However, as long as these territories were still under Turkish rule none of this could legally take place. The Treaty of Lausanne took those territories out from under Turkish rule allowing this succession of territory to the successor states to become legal. The treaty, itself, did not create any of these successor states.
Link to quotes
Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel
pbel
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Let's see...1.4 billion Muslims 800 million or so surrounding her and 5 million Israelis. Quite the contrary Nature has blessed with 1/4 of humanity and growing faster than any other Religion...
This conflict has just begun according the nature of time...Israel needs peace more than the Muslims.
Thank you for the pro-Islam commercial.
There are between 1.8 and 2.2 billion Christians.
So what?
Despite all protestations to the contrary, most Muslims see the Palestinians as embarrassing and prolematic mad-dog distant cousins for whom the Ummah has already shed enough blood and spent enough treasure.
Why else would the Palestinians' own Muslim co-religionists wall them off into ghettos and blockade them?
More to the point, most of the Ummah lies far beyond the practical reach of whatever modest and squalid military and economic aid that they might otherwise provide.
Not to mention that many of those sympathetic nations that are 'within practical reach' are in no shape to intervene anyway.
Egypt is in a state of near civil war and unable to intervene effectively for years to come (not that they've ever been successful at intervening against Israel, anyway).
Syria is in a state of actual civil war and entirely unable to intervene for generations to come (not that they've ever been successful at intervening against Israel, anyway).
Lebanon is a multi-generational victim of civil war and is a mere shadow of its former self; unable to intervene effectively (not that they've ever been successful at intervening against Israel, anyway).
Libya is a recovering victim of civil war and will be unable to intervene effectively for another couple of decades at least (not that they've ever been successful at intervening against Israel, anyway).
Iraq is a recovering victim of war and civil war, and is presently, once again, in a state of near civil war, and will be unable to intervene, effectively, for at least a generation; perhaps longer (not that they've ever been successful at intervening against Israel, anyway).
Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Qatar and the UAE, put together, don't amount to a fart in a hurricane, and may be laughably written off as a military threat (not that they've ever been successful at intervening against Israel, anyway).
Afghanistan lies prostrate from decades of war and civil war and is far too remote and self-centered to do any more than to pay lip service to the idea of military intervention against Israel; they've never been a player, and never will be; and have zero credibility with respect to such intervention.
Iran is a joke, militarily, on the conventional front, and poses next to zero threat against Israel, militarily, other than to send some weapons to Hezbollah and to train Hezbollah fighters in Lebanon; the only practical way for Iran to intervene is if they acquire nukes and then use them against Israel; which would result in massive Iranian loss of life and infrastructure. The Palestinians are not worth that price-tag to the Iranians.
Pakistan is far too busy with their own troublesome northwestern provinces and their Indian neighbor to intervene effectively against Israel, and any use of nuclear weapons against Israel would spell disaster for the Pakistanis (casualties and infrastructure). They're even further from any potential combat theatre than the Iranians. Ain't gonna happen - even if an Iranian-style theocracy emerged in that shit-hole. The Palestinians are not worth that price-tag to the Pakistanis.
Indonesia has enough trouble keeping its own socks pulled up and might as well be on the other side of the moon, when it comes to potential military intervention against Israel.
Turkey is more European than Asian and a member of NATO and on reasonably friendly terms with Israel and remains largely secular with a strong tradition of separation of church and state, enforced by their army, and will not sacrifice their relationship with The West for a handful of mad-dogs in Rump Palestine.
Jordan is the only Muslim-Arab power with a history of war-making against Israel which is presently unburdened by civil war or its after-effects, and they're far too small to engage the Israelis on their own, even if they weren't being paid-off to keep their mouths shut and to behave themselves (not that they've ever been successful at intervening against Israel, anyway).
The Ummah - or, at least, that portion of it within practicable military striking distance of Israel - has been unable to destroy Israel or to advance the cause of their co-religionists in Rump Palestine after several tries - when speaking in terms of 'numbers' and conventional warfare.
There is no Arab (or Muslim) cavalry coming over the hill - metaphorically speaking - to rescue the mad-dog Palestinian albatross that has been hanging around their necks.
The Muslims have spent far too much blood and treasure trying, off and on over the past 66 years, in support of their mad-dog distant cousins, and failing miserably. They've hit their 'wall' - they're done - donor exhaustion - all protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.
Even a hundred years from now, and even if each and every player in the region has nukes, Israel will still be there. The Palestinians, on the other hand, will have long-since been squeezed off their last few remaining and disjointed slivers of land by then, and their refugee populations assimilated by Jordan and Lebanon, and largely forgotten.
Let us know when this threat from 'The Ummah' materializes, will ya?
Yer scarin' folks...
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SO what it gave the original area of Palestine a national identity, and then took it away and replaced it with another national identity. This is what you refuse to see as it destroys your argument. Here is a map of the mandated land all known as Palestine
Just the pink and the blue is all we are interested in as that was pre 1925 Palestine, the Palestine you keep referring to when you use the treaty of Lausanne and the international borders. Along come's Britain and France and they start to carve up the land and give it to arab princes for their help in defeating Turkey. So after the treaty you so rely on Palestine was carved up and made into Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan and parts handed to Saudi Arabia. This left the original area that was destined for the Jewish homeland. Once you understand that the vast majority of the Land had been given to arab muslims, with one small part for arab Christians then you see were the fallacies and fantasies are. Yes Palestinian nationality was founded and almost immediately removed by the creation of new nations in Palestine. The little part that was left had no treaty to give it a nationality, no treaty to give it borders, it had nothing until the UN came up with 181 and the GREEDY muslims wanted it all.
A biased and self opiniated author who can not be relied on to give a straight answer. He is a Palestinian for gods sake so of course he will manipulate the words to suit his islamonazi POV.
Now try it from an unbiased POV.
And still they are useless against the state of Israel, shows that their god is not with them.
P F Tinmore
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SO what it gave the original area of Palestine a national identity, and then took it away and replaced it with another national identity. This is what you refuse to see as it destroys your argument. Here is a map of the mandated land all known as Palestine
Just the pink and the blue is all we are interested in as that was pre 1925 Palestine, the Palestine you keep referring to when you use the treaty of Lausanne and the international borders. Along come's Britain and France and they start to carve up the land and give it to arab princes for their help in defeating Turkey. So after the treaty you so rely on Palestine was carved up and made into Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan and parts handed to Saudi Arabia. This left the original area that was destined for the Jewish homeland. Once you understand that the vast majority of the Land had been given to arab muslims, with one small part for arab Christians then you see were the fallacies and fantasies are. Yes Palestinian nationality was founded and almost immediately removed by the creation of new nations in Palestine. The little part that was left had no treaty to give it a nationality, no treaty to give it borders, it had nothing until the UN came up with 181 and the GREEDY muslims wanted it all.
Not true. You have your timeline all mixed up.
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