I will not Bow!

Status
Not open for further replies.
"...Put yourselves in the place of the Native Americans or the Palestinians. What would you do?"
Fight like hell.

Rather than run.

Until I won.

Or until I lost.

And, if I lost...

I would make-nice with my old enemies and cut the best deal that I could, for myself, my family, and my people, and either (1) resume a peaceful life or (2) leave, if I could not rid myself of old animosities sufficiently to have that peaceful life where I was.

The Palestinians should have made such a decision in 1949.

Or 1967 at the very latest.

Palestinian intransigence and inability to face reality are the sticking points, and have been, for decades.

The Christian and Muslim villages were attacked by well trained and well-armed Haganah, Irgun and other Jewish forces, The Palestinians were basically unarmed. Jordan, Egypt and Syria had the armies. I don't think you can fault them for trying to save themselves. The Native Americans resisted violently until the late 19th century (Geronimo surrendered in 1886) , almost 300 years. So, I probably agree that the best for the Palestinians would be to surrender and accept Jewish rule, but it runs against human nature.




They may have been trained but hardly well armed, relying on outdated single shot Lee Enfield rifles of WW1 vintage. The arab muslims were well armed in comparison and had modern semi automatics, the ones who were not armed were the Christians and Jews who were not allowed any weapons not even knives. All down to the muslims cowardice when faced by an armed opponent so they enforced dhimmi laws. They International law at the time had given Israel the right to a NATIONAL HOME and also given the arab muslims a part of the land. It was the arab muslims that wanted everything because of their religions teachings.
 
The BBC did a scientific poll with an acceptable margin of error...you whine against science.





NO they produced one of their famous ANTI SEMITIC polls with the questions weighted against Israel, and have been censured for it by the UK government


Provide a link, or is this another lie?




Like this

Criticism of the BBC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Criticism of the BBC's Middle East coverage from supporters of both Israel and Palestine led the BBC to commission an investigation and report from a senior broadcast journalist Malcolm Balen, referred to as the Balen Report and completed in 2004. The BBC's refusal to release the report under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 resulted in a long-running and ongoing legal case.[40][41] This led to speculation that the report was damning, as well as to accusations of hypocrisy, as the BBC frequently made use itself of Freedom of Information Act requests when researching news stories
 
If the present state of affairs cannot go on indefinitely...

And if the ONE-state solution cannot be made to work...

And if the TWO-state solution cannot be made to work...

We are left with...

1. the Jews are all slaughtered

2. the Jews voluntarily leave the region formerly known as (Old) Palestine

3. the Jews are compelled to leave the region formerly known as (Old) Palestine

4. the Muslim-Palestinians are all slaughtered

5. the Muslim-Palestinians voluntarily leave the region formerly known as (Old) Palestine

6. the Muslim-Palestinians are compelled to leave the region formerly known as (Old) Palestine

Did I miss anything?




Both the Jews and the muslims are slaughtered

Both the Jews and the muslims voluntarily leave

Both the Jews and the muslims are compelled to leave

And the land becomes purely Christian and is supported by the Christian nations .
 
Yes you sound like a repeating ukulele...
Doesn't matter.

The question (and the options) stand, unless you have something to add...

We seem close to reaching consensus that neither a one- nor two-state solution will work...

If true, then, rather than belobor the whys-and-wherefores for the thousandth time...

We need to be looking to the future...

The question is designed to frame the different ways in which that future might materialize...

So your answer is one should slaughter the other...I keep telling you the Palestinians are mere pawns...Military studies have shown that if Arab forces attacked all at once they win simply because Israel would run out of bullets like Sadam did with Iran that defeated him with kids and clubs...




The arab forces tried that 3 times so why didn't they win. The problem is the arab forces are split into different sects that refuse to work together. So a Suunni commander will never be able to command a Shi'ite army.
 
"...Put yourselves in the place of the Native Americans or the Palestinians. What would you do?"
Fight like hell.

Rather than run.

Until I won.

Or until I lost.

And, if I lost...

I would make-nice with my old enemies and cut the best deal that I could, for myself, my family, and my people, and either (1) resume a peaceful life or (2) leave, if I could not rid myself of old animosities sufficiently to have that peaceful life where I was.

The Palestinians should have made such a decision in 1949.

Or 1967 at the very latest.

Palestinian intransigence and inability to face reality are the sticking points, and have been, for decades.

The Christian and Muslim villages were attacked by well trained and well-armed Haganah, Irgun and other Jewish forces, The Palestinians were basically unarmed. Jordan, Egypt and Syria had the armies. I don't think you can fault them for trying to save themselves. The Native Americans resisted violently until the late 19th century (Geronimo surrendered in 1886) , almost 300 years. So, I probably agree that the best for the Palestinians would be to surrender and accept Jewish rule, but it runs against human nature.

Israel was buying old weapons form Czechoslovakia and cannibalizing part from other machines to make as many complete to use in their defense.
Egypt and Jordan was supplied by the UK.
 
So your answer is one should slaughter the other...
Incorrect.

I listed six possibilities, not two.


Immaterial to a macro-level range of possible futures.

Military studies have shown that if Arab forces attacked all at once they win simply because Israel would run out of bullets like Sadam did with Iran that defeated him with kids and clubs...
Wake me up when the Arabs show any signs of attacking all at once in overwhelming strength.

Those days are done... donor exhaustion and the West-Arab wars and the Arab Spring have seen to that, for generations to come.By the time they get their heads out of their asses, decades from now, the problem will have been long-since settled, one way or another.

My own particular focus is upon how that 'settling of problems' (cutting of the Gordian Knot) will be accomplished.

Without a real acceptable peace, in 50, a hundred, three hundred years of victorious Israel and then a slaughter as you predict...Let History show you the future repeated... In the game of ultimate survival, numbers have always won.



As has also been shown by history too large a population results in nature evening the balance through pandemics and crop failures. So the Palestinians should be making friends with Israel in case of this as Israel has the skills to combat the pandemics and crop failures
 
Without a real acceptable peace, in 50, a hundred, three hundred years of victorious Israel and then a slaughter as you predict...Let History show you the future repeated... In the game of ultimate survival, numbers have always won.
Israel also understands this, no doubt.

Which is why I predict that Israel will not allow the situation to drag on that long, in order for such an outcome to materialize.

What can Israel do to stop the march of History? She cannot occupy the Arab Peninsula...Like America who easily defeats Stick&Stone armies, she cannot defeat a nation as Iraq and Afghanistan have shown...In this conflict of Civilizations, American and Israeli Victories are shallow and Pyrrhic.




What chance is there of arab unity in any future, it will either be an extremist controlled caliphate with many deaths and illiteracy. Or it will be a moderate modern control that will make friends with all nations and bring an end to terrorism. In either scenario the Palestinians will be destroyed while Israel will be secure behind an IRON WALL
 
And since Jews aren't like Muslims or Nazis, they cannot slaughter.

So we're basically left with the only solution that everybody seems to be running away from;

Israel should just annex the West Bank and call it by its right name for the last three thousand years, Judeah and Samaria, and through a slow process provide Israeli citizenship to the Arabs and treat them as Israel is currently treating its 1.8 million Arab citizens, with equal rights.

Problem solved. The end.
That is the One-State solution.

There are many who do not believe that a One-State solution will work.

It is true that the Jews cannot slaughter.

If the choice is slaughter or expulsion or demographic overwhelming, can they expel?




I think if push came to shove the Jews could slaughter and be remorseful afterwards, it would only take the right mixture of circumstances. Just as the British could slaughter the muslim population if the right circumstances happened. One such scenario would be the cold blooded mass murder of children by muslim extremists in the cause of palestine
 
Israel also understands this, no doubt.

Which is why I predict that Israel will not allow the situation to drag on that long, in order for such an outcome to materialize.

What can Israel do to stop the march of History? She cannot occupy the Arab Peninsula...Like America who easily defeats Stick&Stone armies, she cannot defeat a nation as Iraq and Afghanistan have shown...In this conflict of Civilizations, American and Israeli Victories are shallow and Pyrrhic.

What chance is there of arab unity in any future, it will either be an extremist controlled caliphate with many deaths and illiteracy. Or it will be a moderate modern control that will make friends with all nations and bring an end to terrorism. In either scenario the Palestinians will be destroyed while Israel will be secure behind an IRON WALL

Eventually the Pals will see that it's in their interest to surrender and make peace. It worked wonders for Japan and Germany. Anyways, the different factions of Islam are too busy car bombing each other over who gets to be their pope, to be of any real use to the Pals.

PS America has troops in Saudi Arabia, meaning we own Mecca, the carpet kissing capital of the world.
 
MrMax, et al,

There is a mistake here.

What can Israel do to stop the march of History? She cannot occupy the Arab Peninsula...Like America who easily defeats Stick&Stone armies, she cannot defeat a nation as Iraq and Afghanistan have shown...In this conflict of Civilizations, American and Israeli Victories are shallow and Pyrrhic.

What chance is there of arab unity in any future, it will either be an extremist controlled caliphate with many deaths and illiteracy. Or it will be a moderate modern control that will make friends with all nations and bring an end to terrorism. In either scenario the Palestinians will be destroyed while Israel will be secure behind an IRON WALL

Eventually the Pals will see that it's in their interest to surrender and make peace. It worked wonders for Japan and Germany. Anyways, the different factions of Islam are too busy car bombing each other over who gets to be their pope, to be of any real use to the Pals.

PS America has troops in Saudi Arabia, meaning we own Mecca, the carpet kissing capital of the world.
(COMMENT)

While there may be a few advisors in Saudi Arabia, there are no conventional US combat elements in the Kingdom; especial none - anywhere near - the holiest sites of Islam (Mecca and Medina); none.

The US does not want to, in any way, threaten the holiest sites in Islam. It serves no strategic purpose for American Interests and can only have a negative impact.

The US is gradually changing its strategies from one of a political-military hegemony, to that of a nation with influential economic and commercial resources with networking connections; backed by the umbrella protection of its military. To some extent, our friend "pbel" is correct, the US cannot hope to secularly tame and politically co-opt the such nations as Iraq or Afghanistan. It is inconsistent with the developmental potential of such nations having similar historical profiles.

The US will not have a chance to make a positive impact on the Middle East for several generation, if even then. It needs to back away slowly and let the natural forces of the region seek a balance. However, the political aspirations in America are not likely to understand that concept for quite some time into the future.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
If the present state of affairs cannot go on indefinitely...

And if the ONE-state solution cannot be made to work...

And if the TWO-state solution cannot be made to work...

We are left with...

1. the Jews are all slaughtered

2. the Jews voluntarily leave the region formerly known as (Old) Palestine

3. the Jews are compelled to leave the region formerly known as (Old) Palestine

4. the Muslim-Palestinians are all slaughtered

5. the Muslim-Palestinians voluntarily leave the region formerly known as (Old) Palestine

6. the Muslim-Palestinians are compelled to leave the region formerly known as (Old) Palestine

Did I miss anything?

Both the Jews and the muslims are slaughtered

Both the Jews and the muslims voluntarily leave

Both the Jews and the muslims are compelled to leave

And the land becomes purely Christian and is supported by the Christian nations .
I suppose we could add the 'Christian' options as (7), (8) and (9), but...

Would Christendom (the secularized West, and Christianity's outlying non-Western regions) care enough, in a religious context, to undertake such a Herculean task?

I'm having great difficulty believing that the answer would be 'Yes', for a variety of reasons.

Even in this kind of increasingly likely scenario, where neither a one-state nor a two-state solution can be made to work, amongst the Jews and Muslims of the region.

Whatever collective residual Crusader Mentality still exists in The West, seems to have been largely sublimated into having the Jews act as proxies and as third-party caretakers of the Holy Land.
 
Last edited:
NO they produced one of their famous ANTI SEMITIC polls with the questions weighted against Israel, and have been censured for it by the UK government


Provide a link, or is this another lie?




Like this

Criticism of the BBC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Criticism of the BBC's Middle East coverage from supporters of both Israel and Palestine led the BBC to commission an investigation and report from a senior broadcast journalist Malcolm Balen, referred to as the Balen Report and completed in 2004. The BBC's refusal to release the report under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 resulted in a long-running and ongoing legal case.[40][41] This led to speculation that the report was damning, as well as to accusations of hypocrisy, as the BBC frequently made use itself of Freedom of Information Act requests when researching news stories

That has nothing to do with the popularity poll of nations that BBC undertakes yearly.
 
...To some extent, our friend "pbel" is correct, the US cannot hope to secularly tame and politically co-opt the such nations as Iraq or Afghanistan. It is inconsistent with the developmental potential of such nations having similar historical profiles...
I agree with this observation myself.
 
Israel also understands this, no doubt.

Which is why I predict that Israel will not allow the situation to drag on that long, in order for such an outcome to materialize.

What can Israel do to stop the march of History? She cannot occupy the Arab Peninsula...Like America who easily defeats Stick&Stone armies, she cannot defeat a nation as Iraq and Afghanistan have shown...In this conflict of Civilizations, American and Israeli Victories are shallow and Pyrrhic.




What chance is there of arab unity in any future, it will either be an extremist controlled caliphate with many deaths and illiteracy. Or it will be a moderate modern control that will make friends with all nations and bring an end to terrorism. In either scenario the Palestinians will be destroyed while Israel will be secure behind an IRON WALL[/QUOTE]

LMAO...Walls can't stop Rockets...
 
What can Israel do to stop the march of History? She cannot occupy the Arab Peninsula...Like America who easily defeats Stick&Stone armies, she cannot defeat a nation as Iraq and Afghanistan have shown...In this conflict of Civilizations, American and Israeli Victories are shallow and Pyrrhic.




What chance is there of arab unity in any future, it will either be an extremist controlled caliphate with many deaths and illiteracy. Or it will be a moderate modern control that will make friends with all nations and bring an end to terrorism. In either scenario the Palestinians will be destroyed while Israel will be secure behind an IRON WALL[/QUOTE]

LMAO...Walls can't stop Rockets...

Israels technology can ...
 
What chance is there of arab unity in any future, it will either be an extremist controlled caliphate with many deaths and illiteracy. Or it will be a moderate modern control that will make friends with all nations and bring an end to terrorism. In either scenario the Palestinians will be destroyed while Israel will be secure behind an IRON WALL[/QUOTE]

LMAO...Walls can't stop Rockets...

Israels technology can ...

You mean American Technology, and even that cannot stop them all, remember that when you speak about Tiny Israel Toast.
 
15th post
You mean American Technology, and even that cannot stop them all, remember that when you speak about Tiny Israel Toast.

No, I mean Israels technology.

And I never said they can stop all of them. We know how happy it makes you that some of them land in Israel Peebel.

Educate me and provide me a link that Israel does not use the Patriot System of Rocket defense...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

New Topics

Back
Top Bottom