I Will Never Forget or Forgive

[Againsheila]

It's been established -- long before this thread started -- that the entire story in the OP is a made up crock. It's been shot down before and was shot down again here. So what Blowie is saying is he can never forget something that never happened in the first place.

And he's really pissed at that guy in Nigeria who promised him a million bucks by e-mail too.

Fonda still went to the enemy and made propaganda photos and videos for them. She spoke out for the enemy and condemned our soldiers. How can anyone true American support her?

I don't know if that's true or not but it's not the point. The point is the OP is claiming to "never forget" that which does not exist. And he has yet to concede that he's running on a fabrication. Until he does, his credibility is nonexistent.

Lot of this going around lately -- "just because somebody made it up doesn't mean it isn't true". Actually, yeah it does mean that. Until we get past that point of ignorance, we go nowhere.

Wake up, the propaganda photos are true. Stop trying to defend the indefensible. I answered the OP and pointed out it was a myth and it took the focus off of the crimes she actually did commit.

 

[Againsheila]

It's been established -- long before this thread started -- that the entire story in the OP is a made up crock. It's been shot down before and was shot down again here. So what Blowie is saying is he can never forget something that never happened in the first place.

And he's really pissed at that guy in Nigeria who promised him a million bucks by e-mail too.

Fonda still went to the enemy and made propaganda photos and videos for them. She spoke out for the enemy and condemned our soldiers. How can anyone true American support her?

How do you feel about Snowden and those who support him? How do you feel about those who praise Putin and put down Obama?

I wonder how many in the Middle East will never forgive our country for the events at Abu Ghraib and the torture and prisoner abuse there?

You can say whatever you want against our government IN THIS COUNTRY! You don't go to the enemy and say it. As for Snowden. He sought sanctuary in Russia and our movement turned against him for blowing the whistle on them. We were not at war with Russia at the time. I do not blame him and I find it incredulous that no except Snowden spoke up against our big brother government. George Orwell is laughing at us.

 

[Pogo]

Fonda still went to the enemy and made propaganda photos and videos for them. She spoke out for the enemy and condemned our soldiers. How can anyone true American support her?

I don't know if that's true or not but it's not the point. The point is the OP is claiming to "never forget" that which does not exist. And he has yet to concede that he's running on a fabrication. Until he does, his credibility is nonexistent.

Lot of this going around lately -- "just because somebody made it up doesn't mean it isn't true". Actually, yeah it does mean that. Until we get past that point of ignorance, we go nowhere.

Wake up, the propaganda photos are true. Stop trying to defend the indefensible. I answered the OP and pointed out it was a myth and it took the focus off of the crimes she actually did commit.

Ummmmmm.... I'm not the one defending the indefensible. Dragging an e-mail fiction that somebody made up out of thin air and declaring one will "never forget" it--- THAT is indefensible.

Wanna see who's defending indefensible? Have a look in the mirror.

 

[JimBowie1958]

We were not in a declared war....that's why protests were NOT illegal, were NOT treason.

Protesting was one thing, she went over to the enemy and gave them aid and comfort.
You obviously are not old enough to understand the difference.

How do you feel about Snowden and those who support him? How do you feel about those who praise Putin and put down Obama? Are you consistent or a hack? Fair question, consider it.

I wonder how many in the Middle East will never forgive our country for the events at Abu Ghraib and the torture and prisoner abuse there?

Equating the silly shit that went on at Abu Ghraib (like making people laying naked in stacks or stand for hours) to beating people on their knees for days on end is just another stupid sleight of hand played by the usual liars and defenders of every leftwing dictatorship in our nations history; the Dimbocrap fascists.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Fonda still went to the enemy and made propaganda photos and videos for them. She spoke out for the enemy and condemned our soldiers. How can anyone true American support her?

I don't know if that's true or not but it's not the point. The point is the OP is claiming to "never forget" that which does not exist. And he has yet to concede that he's running on a fabrication. Until he does, his credibility is nonexistent.

Lot of this going around lately -- "just because somebody made it up doesn't mean it isn't true". Actually, yeah it does mean that. Until we get past that point of ignorance, we go nowhere.

Wake up, the propaganda photos are true. Stop trying to defend the indefensible. I answered the OP and pointed out it was a myth and it took the focus off of the crimes she actually did commit.

Pogo is a troll and a waste of your time. He is best on ignore.

 

[Pogo]

Protesting was one thing, she went over to the enemy and gave them aid and comfort.
You obviously are not old enough to understand the difference.

How do you feel about Snowden and those who support him? How do you feel about those who praise Putin and put down Obama? Are you consistent or a hack? Fair question, consider it.

I wonder how many in the Middle East will never forgive our country for the events at Abu Ghraib and the torture and prisoner abuse there?

Equating the silly shit that went on at Abu Ghraib (like making people laying naked in stacks or stand for hours) to beating people on their knees for days on end is just another stupid sleight of hand played by the usual liars and defenders of every leftwing dictatorship in our nations history; the Dimbocrap fascists.

 

[Pogo]

I don't know if that's true or not but it's not the point. The point is the OP is claiming to "never forget" that which does not exist. And he has yet to concede that he's running on a fabrication. Until he does, his credibility is nonexistent.

Lot of this going around lately -- "just because somebody made it up doesn't mean it isn't true". Actually, yeah it does mean that. Until we get past that point of ignorance, we go nowhere.

Wake up, the propaganda photos are true. Stop trying to defend the indefensible. I answered the OP and pointed out it was a myth and it took the focus off of the crimes she actually did commit.

Pogo is a troll and a waste of your time. He is best on ignore.

^^ spreads viral e-mails that have been debunked for years, claims to "remember" these non-events .............. and then calls others "trolls".

 

[emilynghiem]

Good response. I am not saying YOU cant forgive, I am saying I cant. I will never move past it.

I remember how she was such a popular star back then and how she made it so 'cool' to attack our troops in the media, insult them and dismiss their sacrifices. And the libtards of our day, you cannot understand them without understanding that Jane Fonda helped to form their current mish-mash of self contradictory half baked ideas on American governance and foreign policy.

She wasn't the author of this idiotic bilge she spawned in the minds of so many, but she was the tool that got so many to accept it as valid.

And to this day libtards advance their own in Hollyweird so they can continue to use them to mislead their fellow idiots.

I hate the *****. I really sincerely could not care less if she was burning in hell. If I saw her on the side of the road burning in fire I would pull over and say, "This baby killer doesn't give a shit about traitors like you; burn *****" then I would get in my care and drive away, and maybe call 911.

Dear Jim: No one can be expected to forget and pretend it never happened and it was wrong. That is not the point, of course there remains accountability and correction for the wrong and damages done.

Just because we forgive a child or pet for making a mess on the floor
doesn't mean we don't clean it up and take every precaution to prevent it again.
We make it PERFECTLY clear it is unacceptable, and we cannot afford to clean up more messes.

But we don't hold on to personal resentment. We TRUST that the problem will be prevented.
That is what we need to rebuild here, that understanding and trust which was broken.

Forgiveness is to release the anger that affects YOU inside.

It is for YOUR benefit that you do not continue to suffer the ill effects and ill will
"as a result of other people's actions." That only gives YOU a negative burden to carry,
and that obstructs positive energy and it detracts from YOUR own energy and effectiveness.
Why should YOU continue to suffer this burden? The point of forgiveness is to let that go.

It is said that "unforgiveness is like swallowing poison and waiting for the other person to die."
In other words, it merely harms you by holding YOU back, it is NOT an effective way to influence or change the other person.

The best way to hold such persons accountable is to correct the problems,
and that does not require being bitter or resentful. In fact, it is harder to correct things in that state of mind.
We are much more effective, more clear in judgment and communication to influence others when we are positive when we speak with authority.

Jim I am still going through years of stress and struggle with injustice that has never been acknowledged, answered or corrected in my own district where national history was destroyed.
I saw that whenever people are unforgiving and angry, it deters and chases help away. It has the opposite effect.
Only where people are forgiving, and willing to work together to correct all the things that went wrong, can anyone work with us.
Otherwise, the negativity just keeps us stuck. So I have been learning the hard way how unforgiveness backfires and makes problems worse.
It has kept our community stuck in "victimhood" where nobody could help until that stage passes.

Without forgiveness the problems drag out like an infected wound, instead of cleaning out the wound of all the dead unhealthy material and baggage swelling up,
so the wound can close and heal and the wrongs addressed and corrected. Walking around with a swollen infected wound just spreads the sickness pain and suffering.

It takes so much work to go back in to clean out old wounds, and reset broken bones, I have nothing but respect for any Veterans of War who survive the process and its aftermath. Nothing but respect. Someday we will learn to avoid inflicting wounds at all.
Until then, it takes us our whole lives to recover, so we pass on the good and not the bad.

Take care Jim
and Thank you!

 

[Pogo]

Dear Jim: No one can be expected to forget and pretend it never happened and it was wrong. That is not the point, of course there remains accountability and correction for the wrong and damages done.

Earth to Emily....

There's no need to "pretend" it never happened. Because it never happened. His entire OP is a bullshit story that somebody made up and has been debunked for years. There is no "event"; there is no "accountability"; there is no "correction" --- except for those who make up and perpetuate bullshit myths and pass them off as actual history.

Why does this matter?

Look at the end of his post:

If I saw her on the side of the road burning in fire I would pull over and say, "This baby killer doesn't give a shit about traitors like you; burn *****" then I would get in my care and drive away, and maybe call 911.

-- based on a fiction.

And it's been known for a decade or more:

>> (Minneapolis) Star Tribune, May 25, 2005: Carrigan, 64, is so tired of having to repeat that he wasn’t beaten after Fonda’s visit and that there were no beating deaths at that time that he won’t talk to the media anymore, said Mike McGrath, a retired Navy pilot held for almost six years and historian of the nonprofit NAM-POWs veterans group. McGrath, 65, of Colorado, also said there were no known beating deaths of POWs after 1969. All known POWs in North Vietnam were released early in 1973.

"We don’t want to be party to false stories, which could be used as an excuse that her real actions didn’t really happen, either," McGrath wrote in a 1999 rebuttal to the e-mails, when he was president of NAM-POWs. << -- Factcheck​

The "pretending" going on is the pretending that this story has any credibility at all. The OP not only cut and pasted an entire OP without attribution but used as a source an "urban legend" that has been going around for fifteen years and has been debunked almost as long. The alleged "victims" themselves, no friends of Jane Fonda, say it's "malarkey".

Why do you people go on with this as if it's real? It's not.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Okay, this is why we conservatives are so gullible. We fall for this nonsense. Driscoll never met Fonda, he says he was never beaten because of her either.

Blame Jane Falsehoods

Sigh. Let's focus on reality here. Wise up conservatives, you're making us look bad when you fall for these kinds of falsehoods. Do your research, please.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Okay, this is why we conservatives are so gullible. We fall for this nonsense. Driscoll never met Fonda, he says he was never beaten because of her either.

Blame Jane Falsehoods

Sigh. Let's focus on reality here. Wise up conservatives, you're making us look bad when you fall for these kinds of falsehoods. Do your research, please.

Yeah, rightwinger pointed out the fraud and gave a link, and he is right as you are too.

So I retracted what I said but pointed out that Fonda's behavior was still treasonous and reprehensible.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Pogo:
It is well established that Fonda and others publicly rallied against the War
in such ways that hurt the morale of the Veterans, the public and the Nation.
That is what I am referring to.

Once that feeling of betrayal is forgiven, all these other conflicts can be addressed
in turn, and all the related wounds can be healed.

It could well be that the general traumas and wounds of war
are being "projected" onto Fonda and other anti-war protestors.
If so, that is part of the healing process, too.

All must be forgiven, projected or not, if we are going to clean up after these wars.
All this is part of the toll on humanity, and we take on this burden when we
agree to fund and send troops to war. it is all our responsibility to clean out and heal,
regardless what form the wounds take, real or projected.

Dear Jim: No one can be expected to forget and pretend it never happened and it was wrong. That is not the point, of course there remains accountability and correction for the wrong and damages done.

Earth to Emily....

There's no need to "pretend" it never happened. Because it never happened. His entire OP is a bullshit story that somebody made up and has been debunked for years. There is no "event"; there is no "accountability"; there is no "correction" --- except for those who make up and perpetuate bullshit myths and pass them off as actual history.

Why does this matter?

Look at the end of his post:

If I saw her on the side of the road burning in fire I would pull over and say, "This baby killer doesn't give a shit about traitors like you; burn *****" then I would get in my care and drive away, and maybe call 911.

-- based on a fiction.

And it's been known for a decade or more:

>> (Minneapolis) Star Tribune, May 25, 2005: Carrigan, 64, is so tired of having to repeat that he wasn’t beaten after Fonda’s visit and that there were no beating deaths at that time that he won’t talk to the media anymore, said Mike McGrath, a retired Navy pilot held for almost six years and historian of the nonprofit NAM-POWs veterans group. McGrath, 65, of Colorado, also said there were no known beating deaths of POWs after 1969. All known POWs in North Vietnam were released early in 1973.

"We don’t want to be party to false stories, which could be used as an excuse that her real actions didn’t really happen, either," McGrath wrote in a 1999 rebuttal to the e-mails, when he was president of NAM-POWs. << -- Factcheck​

The "pretending" going on is the pretending that this story has any credibility at all. The OP not only cut and pasted an entire OP without attribution but used as a source an "urban legend" that has been going around for fifteen years and has been debunked almost as long. The alleged "victims" themselves, no friends of Jane Fonda, say it's "malarkey".

Why do you people go on with this as if it's real? It's not.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Okay, this is why we conservatives are so gullible. We fall for this nonsense. Driscoll never met Fonda, he says he was never beaten because of her either.

Blame Jane Falsehoods

Sigh. Let's focus on reality here. Wise up conservatives, you're making us look bad when you fall for these kinds of falsehoods. Do your research, please.

Yeah yeah yeah, we've been over it and over it in this thread. While this is a false story, Fonda did enough already to brand her a traitor, and I don't feel the least bit sad for her that there is made up shit about her out there.
As far as being gullible, many of knew the story was false, but it's not too hard to believe a story like this considering her history.

 

[rightwinger]

Okay, this is why we conservatives are so gullible. We fall for this nonsense. Driscoll never met Fonda, he says he was never beaten because of her either.

Blame Jane Falsehoods

Sigh. Let's focus on reality here. Wise up conservatives, you're making us look bad when you fall for these kinds of falsehoods. Do your research, please.

Yeah yeah yeah, we've been over it and over it in this thread. While this is a false story, Fonda did enough already to brand her a traitor, and I don't feel the least bit sad for her that there is made up shit about her out there.
As far as being gullible, many of knew the story was false, but it's not too hard to believe a story like this considering her history.

If her real history is so bad, why not post the true history instead of making shit up?

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Okay, this is why we conservatives are so gullible. We fall for this nonsense. Driscoll never met Fonda, he says he was never beaten because of her either.

Blame Jane Falsehoods

Sigh. Let's focus on reality here. Wise up conservatives, you're making us look bad when you fall for these kinds of falsehoods. Do your research, please.

Yeah yeah yeah, we've been over it and over it in this thread. While this is a false story, Fonda did enough already to brand her a traitor, and I don't feel the least bit sad for her that there is made up shit about her out there.
As far as being gullible, many of knew the story was false, but it's not too hard to believe a story like this considering her history.

If her real history is so bad, why not post the true history instead of making shit up?

You'll have to ask the person that first started this particular internet urban legend.

 

[natstew]

This is all I need to hang her by the neck till dead, then feed her to the dogs.

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1420218/posts

 

[Pogo]

Dear Pogo:
It is well established that Fonda and others publicly rallied against the War
in such ways that hurt the morale of the Veterans, the public and the Nation.
That is what I am referring to.

No, Emily, that's not honest.

This is what you wrote, referring directly to the OP story:

No one can be expected to forget and pretend it never happened and it was wrong.

And as I just said, there's no need to "pretend" it didn't happen, because it didn't happen. I really can't put it any simpler than that.

This isn't about what Jane Fonda did. This is about what Jim Bowie did. One of them is dishonest.

 

[9thIDdoc]

OK. So somebody made up a nasty story about someone well known as a nasty POS traitor. So who cares?

 

[DigitalDrifter]

OK. So somebody made up a nasty story about someone well known as a nasty POS traitor. So who cares?

Ding ! Ding ! Ding !

Someone gets it !!!

 

[Pogo]

"Just because it's not true doesn't mean it didn't happen!"