"I still hope the bomber is a white American"

[theDoctorisIn]

Your response proves their point.

You're suggesting that if it was a Muslim, "general deportation would be nice".

Would you suggest the same if it was a crazy white guy?

The point that Salon was making is that if it's a crazy guy, we'll accept it as a tradegy, mourn our dead and get on with our lives - but if it's a Muslim, people like you will start suggesting things like "general deportation".

Depends on what side you are on. You and Salon are on the side of the Muslims.

I so very much am not.

No, I'm on the side of the First Amendment.

 

[Circe]

Your response proves their point.

You're suggesting that if it was a Muslim, "general deportation would be nice".

Would you suggest the same if it was a crazy white guy?

The point that Salon was making is that if it's a crazy guy, we'll accept it as a tradegy, mourn our dead and get on with our lives - but if it's a Muslim, people like you will start suggesting things like "general deportation".

Depends on what side you are on. You and Salon are on the side of the Muslims.

I so very much am not.

No, I'm on the side of the First Amendment.

Oh, well, so am I. I don't think the government should put the editors of Salon in jail for rooting for the Muslims, or you either.

I'm not sure that the First Amendment speaks to whether or not what they said was a load of cow manure, however.

 

[novasteve]

Remember jihad Jane and the white North Carolina Muslims busted a few years ago?

 

[emilynghiem]

I don't know why the color or religion of the asshole bomber is even relevant, shoot me.

Because of the psychosis that the mainstream media has created in our culture.

Dear High Gravity: Until people get an "aha" type revelation, that humanity is connected as one continuous fabric of society, and we cannot divide and target some group for blame without implicating ourselves for faults we equally share,
then people will continue to test and learn by first projecting fault "externally' outside onto others, onto whichever group represents that which they fear and hate "internally."

This projection/mirror process is part of the learning curve of social and spiritual development. It can be a good and or thing to openly express it in the media like this. I think it serves more good than to keep it supressed which to me is more dangerous.
If you are going to stick your foot in your mouth as a hypocrite, at least do it in public where a friend can catch you
and help you remove it before you choke on your own words.

It is better if you understand the fault-finding process is MUTUAL, and how to work with it to resolve internalized issues projected externally back and forth, in order to move toward shared responsibility for faults and corrections. it is no coincidence that each time issues come up, the people can better see the bias of their neighbor while denying they have a bias also. the truly enlightened people recognize biases on all sides and work with that, not against the process, once you understand it is mutually beneficial.

It can be distressful if you don't get why this is happening, and play into the rhetoric and get lost in the politics. If you can see the division, denial and project is mutual, where both sides naturally do it to the other until they realize this, that's the first step.

The REAL challenge is deciding not to take one side against the other, but to have compassion for both and see it as mutual grievances, conflicts and resolution that both sides deserve support with. If you can see it that way, there's hope to intervene, break it up, and work toward getting on the same page, pushing for change in a united positive direction, while recognizing biases remain.

the KEY is getting that if you change yourself and your approach, that influences the other side indirectly;
and also any change committed to locally or individually, multiples collectively to influence greater soceity in a chain reaction.
If you understand the connection between individual and the greater whole, that's when these divisions no longer become an issue.

Until then, clashes and conflicts happen when we try to make a general rule judging or dividing the other group in order to blame more than us, because in the end we find out we are equally under the same rules and just as prone to breaking them too.
For every instance you could blame a person or group you hate, you can find the same happening with a person or group you forgive and respect; where the bias comes from us.

People are in different stages, and some still need to vent to get their anger out as the first step. So it's best to respect people at all stages and just work with what we've got. Not judge anyone for their anger or grief, even their denial and projection, but respect their process and whatever steps they have to go through to come to peace with all this.

I prefer people to forgive and let go sooner than later, but if they need protective walls and barriers to shield their wounds like scabs, those can't be picked off early but need to heal over time and not push people if that's not where they are.

I wish everyone had training in recognizing the stages of Grief and Recovery so we'd be more tolerant and not freak out when people are not on the same page at the same time.
I hate to see people furious and insulting each other because we all respond differently.
But the only way to learn is by experience, and that is what we are seeing going on now.
Ideally we are supposed to be helping each other, but emotions clash and make it worse.
it will get better as we give each other equal space and freedom to say whatever we feel.

Take care and I hope we see more and more progress made
understanding why people are venting and not freak out when that happens.

Maybe I am just getting too old to get angry at people expressing anger, and just feel compassion and sorrow for everyone, no matter what you're thinking or feeling right now!
Just want peace for everyone, no more fear, and just loving thoughts that calm the soul...

 

[emilynghiem]

Your response proves their point.

You're suggesting that if it was a Muslim, "general deportation would be nice".

Would you suggest the same if it was a crazy white guy?

The point that Salon was making is that if it's a crazy guy, we'll accept it as a tradegy, mourn our dead and get on with our lives - but if it's a Muslim, people like you will start suggesting things like "general deportation".

Depends on what side you are on. You and Salon are on the side of the Muslims.

I so very much am not.

No, I'm on the side of the First Amendment.

Yes I'm on the side of people peaceably assembling and petitioning each other to redress grievances. If everyone had equal access to democratic/due process, we may have verbal violence and bullying abuse, until conflicts are resolved, but no so much physical violence that could be prevented by mediating all issues until the parties agree on a solution.

As for the people responsible for the bombing, I am hoping it is someone who can come to terms with what they did, and truly accept responsibility to the point of making peace with the victims/survivors and the public affected by this violence, so people don't suffer in anger.

David Berkowitz resolved his issues and wants to do outreach to prevent crime and suffering.
Jon Buice had support of his adopted father to "be a man" and take responsibility for his crime and cooperate with authorities. And Dan Leach confessed to murder after seeing Passion of the Christ and realizing it was more important to make peace with God. I'd like to see that instead of giving all responsibility to govt instead of the actual wrongdoers taking it.

I believe restorative justice approaches will not only empower the victims and survivors to have a say in restitution and corrections by working with the actual wrongdoers on an agreed plan, but will also lead to greater deterrence, prevention and correction by focusing on consequences for actions and also how to intervene and address criminal issues earlier.

I still believe in the ability of govt to maintain the power of retributive forms of judgment and punishment, so that people have a choice. If you cooperate and work with authorities in capital cases, you should have options of life in prison while you work for restitution commensurate with the costs and damages you incurred; and if you do not respect the laws then you should lose any rights under them.

As for deportation, whether you are born here or not, I believe citizenship should be earned based on law-abiding behavior, requiring those who are legally or mentally incompetent to get help in cases they could pose dangers to others or hold their guardians responsible, and people who commit premeditated crimes to violate the rights of others should trade places with applicants on the waiting list for citizenship who are willing to contribute to society. I believe that for minors to become legally responsible should involve civics education on the cost of crime and abuse, and signing agreements to accept social and financial responsibility.
I don't think anyone should get a free ride, playing the legal system that taxpayers pay for.
So this should be part of citizenship education and requirements for all people; and if we can't afford the costs, then we need to change the system and quit setting it up to fail.

 

[Misty]

We shouldn't be wishing for one kind of bomber versus another.
This is what this article is doing, hoping it's a white American. Why on earth would he hope that?

Because he has played into the privileged white man meme. That's bigoted.

If you don't want hatred of groups of people don't promote it.

This guy is promoting it.

 

[AmyNation]

Or maybe the author is being realistic, and understands that the impact on our nation would be very different with a white lone bomber vs a muslim lone bomber.

 

[emilynghiem]

The Salon article actually makes a decent point - that if it turns out to be a crazy white guy, it'll be a tragedy - and if it's a Muslim, it'll be another war.

Yep, people gonna kneejerk to the headline and not bother reading the article.

It seems politically motivated at this point anyway and all colors have political motivations.

There wasn't a war when the Ft. Hood shooter turned out to be Muslim.
If it's someone people understand was sick, or someone who agrees to own up and get help and is truly sorry, then it should not matter what race or religion that person is.

The cause of this violence is unforgiveness.
And the cure to sickness is forgiveness.

Those two factors cross over all cultures and beliefs,
but are part of human nature and our psychological process as human beings.

When we realize this, we don't blame the race or culture, but the unforgiveness that makes people sick, hurt themselves, and other people.

 

[Aristotle]

I don't know why the color or religion of the asshole bomber is even relevant, shoot me.

Actually it is relevant.

When 9/11 happened many Sikhs and Arabs who had nothing to do with the attack were attacked themselves because zealots assume just because the person is of Middle Eastern descent, they are by default suspicious persons.

 

[skookerasbil]

Salon magazine is read only by limpwristers.

Doesnt surprise me.

 

[Papageorgio]

Or maybe the author is being realistic, and understands that the impact on our nation would be very different with a white lone bomber vs a muslim lone bomber.

Why would that be? It would be better for whom, if the perp was white?

It would be better whom, if the perp was a Muslim?

Not sure I see a big difference, the perp still took lives and needs to be handle with no mercy.

 

[Aristotle]

"The reason to hope that the bomber is a white American is because in a country where white privilege and double standards so obviously affect our national security reactions, that outcome will better guarantee that the reaction to Boston is a bit more measured."

Salon.com

I am never the one to judge anyone based on their skin pigmentation and although color should not matter especially when such a tragedy such as this has occurred, I have to agree. I see the threads here and how much hate people have against people of Islam, or how much people have this ignorance with Middle Eastern or African culture. We therefore turn a blind eye to domestic terrorist like the Klu Klux Klan or White Supremacist groups one group that recently put out a hit and killed an official in Texas.

 

[Aristotle]

Maybe on this message board people like to fight each other but in the real world things like this solidify Americans. Because that's what we all are Americans. Not a color, not a religion, not heterosexual, not gay, not men, not women but Americans. And we all were attacked that day. As a nation.

I'm sorry but you need to take your rose colored glasses off. That is not the America I'm living in. We are not color blind people nor does our system work that way.

 

[AmyNation]

If the bomber is an american muslim, it will cause more fear, hatered and racial tension, than if the bomber is white.

The entire conversation will be different. Look at the ft hood shooter vs sandy hook. If the man is white, the media will focus on his mental health, the movies he watched, the video games he played and the meds he took. If hes muslim, it will be almost all about islam.

We havent even identified the bomber yet and you have terrified americans demanding airlines kick arab passengers off the plane. We all should remeber the fear and hate that 9-11 bred for muslims. I dont want to see that happen again.

 

[Aristotle]

If the bomber is an american muslim, it will cause more fear, hatered and racial tension, than if the bomber is white.

The entire conversation will be different. Look at the ft hood shooter vs sandy hook. If the man is white, the media will focus on his mental health, the movies he watched, the video games he played and the meds he took. If hes muslim, it will be almost all about islam.

We havent even identified the bomber yet and you have terrified americans demanding airlines kick arab passengers off the plane. We all should remeber the fear and hate that 9-11 bred for muslims. I dont want to see that happen again.

AmyNation Kudos for this post definitely giving you rep

 

[Papageorgio]

If the bomber is an american muslim, it will cause more fear, hatered and racial tension, than if the bomber is white.

The entire conversation will be different. Look at the ft hood shooter vs sandy hook. If the man is white, the media will focus on his mental health, the movies he watched, the video games he played and the meds he took. If hes muslim, it will be almost all about islam.

We havent even identified the bomber yet and you have terrified americans demanding airlines kick arab passengers off the plane. We all should remeber the fear and hate that 9-11 bred for muslims. I dont want to see that happen again.

Is that not what defines the killer? If he is Muslim, it IS about his culture. Which is very defined by his religion.

If the guy is white, it IS about his culture. His appetite for violence.

Personally, I see them both as whacked out nut jobs that the state should consider ending their lives.

 

[CaféAuLait]

If the bomber is an american muslim, it will cause more fear, hatered and racial tension, than if the bomber is white.

The entire conversation will be different. Look at the ft hood shooter vs sandy hook. If the man is white, the media will focus on his mental health, the movies he watched, the video games he played and the meds he took. If hes muslim, it will be almost all about islam.

We havent even identified the bomber yet and you have terrified americans demanding airlines kick arab passengers off the plane. We all should remeber the fear and hate that 9-11 bred for muslims. I dont want to see that happen again.

Honestly, I think it depends on what media you watch. I recall outlets calling Hasan a terrorist and questioning ties to the ME. I also recall that right wingers were called silly for thinking it was a terrorist attack. Now I also watched as Hasan’s mental health was evaluated and his 'forced' service in this war was questioned by other news outlets. I have read reports that suggested that his being Muslim is what caused the bombing but not because of Al Qaeda but because he was taunted because he was a Muslim in the military. Yet, he emailed Anwar al-Awlaki asking about Jihad and funds transfers. So is he a terrorist or a mentally unstable man who was pushed over the edge? I believe there has been and was a lot of focus on Hasan. In fact there were people who reprimanded in the military for not acting on his emotional state/mental health which they were aware of.

It seems to me that there is haste on both sides one not to label and to find reasons not to even if the label is warranted and the other who wishes to label when the label may not be warranted.

 

[Sallow]

I hope who ever it is..gets caught.

 

[Sallow]

If the bomber is an american muslim, it will cause more fear, hatered and racial tension, than if the bomber is white.

The entire conversation will be different. Look at the ft hood shooter vs sandy hook. If the man is white, the media will focus on his mental health, the movies he watched, the video games he played and the meds he took. If hes muslim, it will be almost all about islam.

We havent even identified the bomber yet and you have terrified americans demanding airlines kick arab passengers off the plane. We all should remeber the fear and hate that 9-11 bred for muslims. I dont want to see that happen again.

Is that not what defines the killer? If he is Muslim, it IS about his culture. Which is very defined by his religion.

If the guy is white, it IS about his culture. His appetite for violence.

Personally, I see them both as whacked out nut jobs that the state should consider ending their lives.

Christianity is a very violent religion as well.

It's got the highest body count of the three major religions.

No one even comes close.

 

[Sallow]

If the bomber is an american muslim, it will cause more fear, hatered and racial tension, than if the bomber is white.

The entire conversation will be different. Look at the ft hood shooter vs sandy hook. If the man is white, the media will focus on his mental health, the movies he watched, the video games he played and the meds he took. If hes muslim, it will be almost all about islam.

We havent even identified the bomber yet and you have terrified americans demanding airlines kick arab passengers off the plane. We all should remeber the fear and hate that 9-11 bred for muslims. I dont want to see that happen again.

Absolutely right.

We saw this with Koresh and McVeigh.